My M18x turned into a zombie...so now I'm building that monster desktop I always talked about.

Everyone is familiar with the zombie analogy by now. My M18x has become a proverbial zombie. "It's alive! No, its dead! It's walking! Ahhhhhhh its biting me!"

It seems alive, it runs games at default GPU clocks without a hitch, but any kind of OC results in a black-screen or CTD or an abrupt full-system shutdown.

Here's the rub, although the extended warranty isn't up until July this problem is irreproducible on factory clocks, meaning, any technician that diagnoses it will see nothing in merit of replacement.

I could just continue to use it at the factory clocks, but I am nearly certain that these symptoms are indicative of looming full-blown GPU failure. How long? Could be a few weeks, could be a year, but its a near certainty. But probably not until after July, or two months from now when my warranty expires.

Pricing out replacement GPU's, I could get a pair of 780M used for $550 each on ebay, or around $700 new, but either way, new or used, what kind of lifespan are we talking about here considering the existing primary 680M was of new origin and has nearly failed around the two year mark? I should probably add that I have taken precautions to address any additional heat from overclocking these GPU's and that they have actually seen cooler temperatures than with factory TIM, default fan algorithm, and sitting flat on a surface, even under full-load. I also should add that they were not aggressively overclocked at 1.1 V, but only moderately overclocked at 1.025 V (+200 core/+400 memory). Point is, as with the other GPU failures many R2 owners have been experiencing of late, many with absolutely no overclock to speak of, was this avoidable and more importantly, by extrapolating an average two year life expectancy onto replacement hardware that actually runs slightly hotter, would it be prudent to spend $1400 to fix it?

Additionally, another component that seems to fail around the two or three year mark, given sufficient usage (12 hours a day on, half of which time spent under moderate load, gaming) but varying from one system to the next is the motherboard. I can probably expect to add another $300 for motherboard replacement sometime beyond July.

I've done the math. I no longer need the mobility. I love PC gaming. The answer is clear, it is time to move to a desktop.

I set out to only use solid, top grade components yet keeping the total price around $2k.

Here is what I have so far, I will explain in some detail my choice with a the components and apologize if this becomes too TL;DR:

Intel Core i7-4820K, EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Ti, Corsair 600T White Graphite - System Build - PCPartPicker

I love pcpartpicker in that it is a clean way to show everyone what youre contemplating and also provide those who might be interested in going a similar route the best deal on the parts.

I believe what I have settled on are the best CPU for the money, the best single GPU for the money, and the best LGA 2011 socket mobo period, here's why:

CPU

It's been 5 days now since my M18x R2 has turned,during which I have spent the majority of my time exploring various CPU and motherboard options and this is what I have found. Initially I had settled on an i7 4770k, an extremely common gaming rig CPU right now, and an Asus Maximus VI Hero LGA 1150 Socket CPU. What I learned is that a lot of existing Z87 boards (4th Gen 1150) suffer from a kind of time-freeze problem in their BIOS, the problem seems to be more common among Asus Z87 boards but I've even seen reports of it in Gigabyte boards as well. This is an additional problem that seems to affect 10% of owners ON TOP of the already existing, to-be-expected issues such as a board arriving DOA or with bent pins or not recognizing 4 sticks of RAM etc. Given my luck, or lack thereof, I didn't want to take a chance and was also considering going with a hex-core i7 4930 anyway when I happened upon a comparison of the i7 4770k and the i7 4820k, the latter being of the same socket type as an i7 49XX.

I was really surprised to find that the i7 4820k, although the same price as an i7 4770k and only marginally slower in terms of performance (example, CPU score in Vantage is 27,500 or so at factory clocks compared to 29k of the 4770k) has much higher headroom in terms of overclockability and roughly 15 C cooler temperatures under full load compared to the 4770k. Overclocking headroom: results vary but an average could be 4.55 Ghz for 4770k and 4.8 Ghz for 4820k.

Intel i7-4930K & i7-4820K Ivy Bridge-E Review - Page 17

So:

Lower temperatures under full-load, by about 15 C.

Higher OC headroom. How high? The current world record holder is with the same mobo I have chosen and CPU, nearly 7Ghz as shown here:

Motherboards - RAMPAGE IV BLACK EDITION

I completely avoid the clock freezing issue experienced by Z87 boards.

LGA 2011 Socket motherboards handle SLI better than 1150.

With the same socket type mobo I can upgrade to i7-49XX if I feel the need to down the road, although I have to point out that I could actually go 4930 right now for another $260 ($320 vs. $580) but am confident that a cooled 4820 at ~ 4.8 Ghz will offer an absolutely stellar dollar/performance ratio.

There are many other advantages to running LGA 2011 over LGA 1150, one of which being access to 64 Gb memory bandwith whereas with LGA 1150 youre limited to 32GB, which is actually useful if youre going to set up a RAM disc.


Motherboard

ASUS RIVE Black is the best LGA 2011 Mobo on the market at the moment, visit the previous link for an overview. No-one is reporting the time-clock freeze bug. 12 out of 12, or 100% of customers on amazon have rated it 5 out of 5, unlike the Asus Z87 boards and competitor offerings (ASRock, Gigabyte, MSI all of them) where roughly 1 in 6, or 15% of reviews are reflecting DOA, bent-pins, fail to POST, the time-freeze problem, inability to recognize more than two sticks of RAM or dead boards within 2-4 months. This is the one component that increased the cost layout significantly as this board is $480 compared to the original LGA 1150 board I had considered, the $200 Asus Maximus VI Hero. But again, the time-clock freeze issue seems limited to the Z87 boards and I have the option of upgrading to hex-core i7 49XX in the future and overall the RIVE Black is widely regarded as being the best motherboard available, period. You get what you pay for.


GPU

EVGA Nvidia GTX 780 Ti Superclocked with ACX Cooler

Many will ask why I don't just spend $1k and go with Nvidia GTX 780 SLI for better overall performance. The reason is that, although SLI works on 99% of games in existence, the two that I happen to enjoy at the moment, Planetside 2 and Titanfall, either have poor SLI optimization in the case of PS2 and no optimization in the case of Titanfall. If I step up to a 2560x1440 G-Sync monitor in 2015 or thereafter and need more power I can either add an additional EVGA 780 Ti SC or move on to single Pascal in 2016.

Initially I was looking for the "Hydro Copper" variant of this card by EVGA as at that time I was set on liquid cooling with a single Corsair H80i cooling the CPU (H100i would only fit in the top air vent of the 600T and would, in my opinion, trap air there that would normally be evacuated out by the supplied 200mm fan, mounting the smaller H80i in the fan at the top rear of the case was a superior configuration, again in my non-professional opinion) In hindsight, I would have needed to shoehorn that H100i into the ceiling of the case or purchase a separate H80i to be mounted elsewhere within the case for the liquid cooling needs of the GPU. Now that I have since changed my mind on liquid cooling and am going with a Noctua NH D12 I am no longer interested in liquid cooling.

In my opinion at $699 out the door and including a free copy of "Watchdogs", which I was planning to pick-up anyway, this is the best price/performance variant of the 780 Ti. It is factory overclocked to 1006 MHz Base Clock/1072 MHz Boost Clock (standard 875 MHz Base Clock/928 MHz Boost Clock whose 40% more heat-sink volume and ball-bearing fans keep the card about 10 C lower under load than a basic GTX 780 Ti. It hit 10800 in Firestrike on base clocks and 11600 at 1126 Mhz base and 1215 boost according to the dated bench found in this review. I have heard some pushing this card to 1300 Mhz and higher but even on base clocks it is 2k points higher than my personal Firestrike best of 8900 (+225/+450 @ 1.025 V).


Cooler

Noctua NH D14. The best cooler available, all reviews still use this cooler as the standard by which newer CLC's (closed loop coolers) are compared. It still has greater thermal efficiency, better cooling and significantly lower audible signature than every CLC on the market, including Corsair's H100i and H80i, which not only are more expensive and loud but also have a significant failure rate (~20 according to reviews on both Newegg, Amazon and various forums, many fail within 4-8 months, some end up leaking, not good) Technically it is an air cooler but I have heard that the pipes connecting the heat-dissipating fins to the CPU heat-sink are liquid filled. It is a monstrosity and I might not be able to use all 8 RAM slots on the RIVE Black mobo (honestly, although RAM disk is appealing, I will probably not run more than the two pieces of 8G Corsair Vengeance Pro 2133 Mhz).

Power Supply

No more 330W limitation! It is mind-boggling when you realize that power consumption of 780 Ti, only on factory clocks, is nearly 300 W. Not wanting to EVER experience PSU limitation ever again and also wanting to have a PSU that would be adequate should I add a 2nd EVGA 780 Ti Superclocked down the road I settled on a Corsair RM 850 80 Plus Gold Certified (850 W).

Case

Corsair 600 T Special Edition White Mid Tower

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbA44i2K4sw

I settled on this case as I didn't want anything bigger than a mid-tower and I like the way I can hide all the cables, the inclusion of both a mesh and viewing window side panel, the external fan controls and overall aesthetic design, especially the white color. This is the same exact case that Digital Storm uses for their "Ode" and as configured on their site (same mobo, CPU, cooler, RAM, PSU etc.) it is $2800 and that is with the basic Nvidia GTX 780 Ti, not the one I have chosen, the EVGA 780 Ti Superclocked with ASX Cooler sporting higher clocks and better air-cooling.

http://www.digitalstormonline.com/ode.asp

Storage

This is a big reason the build was so inexpensive, the Corsair 600T's 3.5 Inch drive tray's have mounting holes in them that line up with 2.5 inch SSD's and laptop HDD's, the case even includes all of the screws, so I am simply transferring over my 256 G SSD and 700 and 500 G HDD's.

OS

Windows 7 Home Premium


RAM

The total cost of this build is actually very close to $2k with a few of the components in the pcpartpicker link actually significantly cheaper than shown there. One of those parts is the RAM, it is listed at $230 or so there but I have picked up the same RAM, Corsair Vengeance Pro 2133 Mhz 2x8 G from a reputable seller on ebay for $140 shipped, new. Which leads me into the final portion of this post, the total outlay for this build:


All of the parts, including an Asus DVD drive not listed above and excepting the GPU were purchased from amazon.com for a total of $1285. including shipping. The GPU was purchased from Newegg as it was slightly cheaper than amazon, $679 vs $715. (after $20 rebate). purchasing from both sources includes a copy of "Watchdogs".

$1285
$679 (GPU)
$140 (RAM)

= $2104.

Compare this to the cost of replacing the GPU's and anticipated replacement of the motherboard in the M18x R2, at around $1800. The PC above should last AT LEAST 5 years, at which point GPU and possibly motherboard failure are slight possibilities with moderate to heavy abuse. And $1200. for replacement with like components is still significantly cheaper than $1800.The replacement components in the M18x R2 might last another 3 years before needing to be replaced again, given personal experience and the average life-expectancy as reflected by many other M18x R2 owners here. Performance wise the desktop is positively leagues ahead, I don't know what kind of temps I will be seeing with an i7 4820 @ 4.8 Ghz mated to a Noctua NH D14 but an i7 3770k, a hotter running chip I believe, didn't exceed 72 C @ 4.6 Ghz under 100% under a full Prime95 run:

Corsair H110 review - Core i7 3770K OC at 4600 MHz 1.3 Volts

A single 780 Ti, at around 1200 Mhz (I believe this card can push 1300 Mhz or so core) pulls nearly 12k in Firestrike and I can add another down the road.

EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Ti SC SuperClocked ACX Review - Overclocking The Graphics Card

Under load this particular 780 Ti variant didn't exceed 65 C on the default clocks that yield 10,800 in Firestrike according to the same review:

EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Ti SC SuperClocked ACX Review - Graphics Card Temperatures

Now it is somewhat unfair to compare the M18x R2 to a PC but the point I am trying to make is that unless you absolutely need the mobility, a desktop is the way to go for a fraction of the cost. It is actually mind-blowing to think that a PC of this caliber can be put together for nearly $2k. Make absolutely no mistake, this PC is a beast. There is no skimping on any of the parts here, everything is top-shelf. Another thing left out of the equation here is the level of comfort afforded by a PC in terms of significantly reduced noise. One of the primary reasons I settled on the Noctua NH D12 air-cooler, aside from its reliability compared to the failure-rate of AIO coolers (all in one), is that it is about 10 db quieter than the existing AIO coolers, notably the Corsair H80i and H100i, while offering superior performance. With the M18x R2 I actually run the less aggressive CPU clock profiles so that I can run the fans at 3700 RPM constant, as opposed to 4200 RPM, as the noise at 4200 RPM is positively intolerable, even with headphones on. But even at 3700 RPM it is an irritating, constant drone.

So, if anyone else here finds themselves in a similar situation, with a failed component or two, unless you absolutely need the mobility there are other options.

I will still lurk around here, I still have and will continue to use my M18x R2 at least until my desktop is all pieced together, figured out and up and running.

For those with desktop PC's, let me know what you think about the parts that I have chosen.

Thanks for letting me share my unfortunate experience with my M18x R2 and my decision to migrate to desktop. Hopefully you may have learned something in the process, maybe youre also contemplating making the same move or supplementing your M18x R2 for when youre more stationary or are just curious as to the price/performance ratio a $2k PC build affords.

 

Why not go with the 4930K six-core? If I was going 2011, it's six-core or no 2011 for me. That's just me though.

You can also get the EVGA X79 Dark instead of the ASUS, but that's only around a $80 difference in price I think.

Otherwise, the system looks great. :thumbsup:

 

You're not waiting for Haswell-E to come out? Presumably, the 5820K and 5930K will come out in a few more months, along with DDR-4 support.

I don't like conventional big towers anymore. I see square cube case with mATX mobo as the trend now. If one doesn't need SLI/crossfire, one can go with a mITX case. With the 295x2 that fits into a mITX case, such as the Cooler Master Elite 130/Corsair 250D, you can have 4K capable machine in a tiny enclosure which is also not much heavier than an Alienware m18x/18.
Go to around 4 mins on this video: AMD Radeon R9 295X2 Review - YouTube

I'd go with the new Fractal Design Node 804 (mATX) in a hardbeat. In case that measures about 1 cubic ft, you can fit 3x 240mm rad, and 1 280mm rad inside. It's so much more space efficient, and you get no compromise in cooling compared to full tower, which one makes more sense, go figure. The Node 804 is, IMHO, currently one of the best mATX case out there.
Fractal Design Node 804 Case Review - YouTube

Corsair PSU is good but there are ppl saying that in recent years their QC has slipped a bit. Personally, since I will need 1000W for the 295x2, and I prefer Platinum efficiency, I'd go with the EVGA SuperNOVA 1000W ( Newegg.com - EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 P2 80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified 1000W Active PFC ATX12V v2.31/EPS 12V v2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready ECO Thermal Control Full Modular PSU 10 Year Warranty 220-P2-1000-XR NEW Intel 4th Gen CPU Ready Power Supply).

There're a few other 1000W PSU out there, but Techpowerup review suggest that the EVGA has the best performance for 1000W category (and longest 10 yrs warranty). Actually 750W-800W should be good, but if it's a LGA 2011 CPU + 295x2 running Linpack and Furmark, I am sure the combo will hit 800W easily. If I want to save a bit of money, I'd go with the Seasonic 860W or the Corsair AX860. Either way it has to be modular PSU this time around.

I'll go with the 295x2, with either the H100i or the Enermax Liqtech 240 for the CPU. My desktop will need to be transportable (so that rules out heavy air coolers), but I don't want to go full watercooling loop because I'd need to drain it everytime. Still, I'd like a case which can potentially fit multiple 240mm rads down the road.

For those ppl complaining about AMD's Hawaii Island taking a lot of power, they don't see the whole situation. They look at peak power only, but not the average power. AMD's cards has much higher peak power than Nvidia's, but all in all if you take the average 780Ti in SLI eats about as much power as 290x in Crossfire. Nvidia has slight edge, but it's not really a landslide victory as most people think. There's also Nvidia's GPU Boost getting in the way.
Power Consumption: Drawing Some Conclusions - Radeon R9 295X2 8 GB Review: Project Hydra Gets Liquid Cooling
Power Consumption: Introducing Our Equipment - Radeon R9 295X2 8 GB Review: Project Hydra Gets Liquid Cooling
No one else has gone the same length as Tom's Hardware did, using oscilloscope to measure the power on each rail feeding the GPU. The only thing that's a headache with AMD, is updating the GPU drivers...

I won't bother to get a DVD drive, because I can just chuck the slim DVD drive from my 18 into the slim DVD drive slot on the Node 804. Brilliant isn't it?

All in all that's my plan, but my budget will have to be quite a bit higher. That'll cost me at least 3000 USD, and that excludes the monitor and the peripherals. If there's a way to build a closed loop 780Ti SLI system, I'd look into it too. Seeing that the 18 should still be good for a while, I think unless I feel like I have too much money, this build will be delayed. I could wait a bit more, until Broadwell, Maxwell and the successor to AMD's 290 series are out.

 

Since the release is so close, I think it would be worth waiting to see if Haswell-E turns out be good, or just another steaming pile of dog poop like Haswell turned out to be.

Otherwise, I agree with ssj92... If I were going to build a desktop tomorrow it would be an X79 with nothing less than 4930K or 4960X CPU. I'd be using the ASUS Rampage IV Black Edition mobo and 2 or 3 Titans with an unlocked vBIOS, or 2 to 3 GTX 780Ti Classfied K|NGP|N Edition with an unlocked vBIOS. I don't like that the 780Ti has only 3GB of vRAM compared to the Titan, but that particular GPU can run over 1.8GHz on core.

For the case I think I would go with the HAF Stacker 935 full tower, or a Strike-X air case.

I think you should be looking at something over 1000W, maybe 1200W+ for that configuration. If what I am seeing reported is accurate, just one severely overclocked 780Ti can pull over 450W.

 

I do agree on waiting. Haswell-E should be announced soon.

 

If you can afford to be without a computer for 3 days in the case of potential failure then waiting and running at stock now is the best policy, heck mobile maxwell may even tempt you to just swap out a card lol.

If I go back to desktop it will have to be an epic machine to make it interesting again.

 

Vulcan, might I make a suggestion to you about the case? I am PERSONALLY very familiar with the 600t as this was the case that my desktop was residing in until 3 months ago. It's a beautiful case, for sure, but it really is a 5 year old case design at this point and it shows. Even though it's a "mid-tower" I think you'll find that it's actually MUCH larger in person than you would have expected. In my opinion, there is an awful lot of wasted space inside that case due to poor design decisions on Corsair's part. Even though it technically does have a rear access area for cable management, it's laughably cramped in there making it quit tough to work with. Also, this case it NOT your friend if you're ever going to be adding more than a single closed loop radiator at some point. I cannot stress enough, that even if you're only planning on using a Corsair all-in-one for now, you'll want to give yourself the option of easily expanding later.

Personally, if you fancy the Corsair cases (and I must admit they ARE top notch), I would go with the Carbide Air ( Newegg.com - Corsair Carbide Series Air 540 (CC-9011030-WW) Black Steel / Plastic ATX High Airflow Cube Case). The case is actually a bit smaller yet it has MUCH more usable room. The way they've completely separated the power supply section from the motherboard section is genius and allows for the best cable management I've ever experienced in a case. It has TONS of room for extra radiators, and the air flow in this thing is second to none. It's the case that my wife's desktop is in, and if she hadn't already picked that case for herself, I would have put my computer in one as well when I did my refresh. Most people think because of the shape that it's bigger than it is, but it's actually much less intrusive than the 600t.




Also, you may want to think about stepping up from the H80 to the H100 cooler. The H80 will get the job done fine at stock clocks, but if you plan on pushing that Ivy Bridge at all, you'll find it falls behind quick, even if you double fan it for push/pull. The H100 will give you much more breathing room without having to crank the fan speeds to wind tunnel levels.

Anyway, just my 2 cents, hope it helps.

 

OK STOP THE PRESS!!!

Update, I cancelled the i7 4820 part of the order and......I splurged on the 4930.

You guys are absolutely correct, there is no reason to go with a 2011 socket board and not go hex-core, but what really convinced me was the performance difference between both processors overclocked. According to this comparison, in 3DMark 11, although a 4820 has more overclocking headroom it could only muster 11.8k physics whereas the 4930 WAS nearly 4K POINTS HIGHER, OR ABOUT 40% FASTER IN THIS BENCHMARK, at nearly 15.5k physics:

Intel i7-4930K & i7-4820K Ivy Bridge-E Review - Page 17

Another point that pushed me to 4930 is that unlike the mobo, the case, the PSU and the OS which I all purchased from amazon.com (the best price I could find them for) a 4930 is $580 on there and on newegg.com. Well seeing the synthetic bench performance difference between 4820 and 4930 really strengthened my resolve so I looked again a bit harder this time and found one on overstock.com for $555 out the door, tax and shipping included and then just a few minutes later one brand-new, in a sealed box from a reputable seller on ebay for $540 out the door, tax and shipping included. And It has to also be noted that I paid tax on the 4820 on amazon.com, of about 8-10$, bringing the actual price up from $324. to $350. so the price difference between processors was no longer $260 but was now $190.


Also, I apologize for the confusion with the partpicker link, I am no longer going with liquid cooling and as timing would have I had already ordered a Noctua N DH-14 yesterday when I discovered a video review by Linus Tech Tips of the soon-to-be available successor, the Noctua N DH-15 that all benches show being ~4-5 C cooler than its predecessor both at idle and under load and according to this video review BESTING THE AIO LIQUID COOLERS while also being roughly 15-20 Db quieter:



And you guys are absolutely correct that if I was prudent and patient, which I am not 50% of the time, I would wait for the hardware refresh that is due to occur this fall, probably around November or 6 months from now. That would be Haswell E and Maxwell. Here is the problem, I have been a bit emotionally distraught by the newfound discovery that my M18x has become a zombie M18x and I have been wanting to build a desktop for about 3 years now but have been waiting for prices to come down, new iterations of hardware to be released (780 Ti, i7 4930) and existing hardware to fail. Well all three have converged. The prices for all of the components I have selected are significantly lower than when they were new 6 months ago. The mobo I have settled on was $600, same with the CPU and the non-reference EVGA 780 Ti SC w/ ACX cooler also about $100 higher WITHOUT a free copy of Watch Dogs.

Which brings me to another point, yes Maxwell may be 40% faster than Kepler, but how long will I have to wait for a non-reference card beyond November for EVGA, Asus, and MSI to churn them out? Another 6 months? How much will Kepler be at launch? Haswell E? And yes Moore' law is still operative but Ivy Bridge to Haswell, as Mr. Fox points out, was a total flop. Sure, an octo-core Haswell is EXTREMELY ENTICING, but are we approaching a threshold on what we can expect from consumer grade CPU's? Is Haswell E going to break the 5 Ghz barrier? Given the recent history I am not entirely sure.

And here is the real reason I am migrating now even though hardware refresh is right around the corner, at least one of my GPU's is on its way out with no telling when it will let go. I have experienced GPU failure before with the system before this, a refurbished M18x R1 equipped with an i7 2960 and 580M SLI. At first it wouldn't hold an overclock, just as now, to which increasing the voltage did nothing. Then, within a matter of only a week or two, there were really bizarre artifacts in games, I was playing Skyrim with an ENB at the time (Skryim ENB killed my GPU!! not really the system was refurbished, I likely had faulty hardware as it all happened withing 3 months of acquiring it) and shadows weren't rendering properly, resulting in large completely black triangles in place of objects that should be rendering shadows or SSAO etc. Then it was full blown GPU failure and I had to move secondary to primary and limp it along until after replacing refurbished GPU's with refurbished GPU's three times in a row (the logic, or lack thereof here on the part of Dell) Dell kindly agreed to put the $3500 or so I had spent on it toward the M18x R2 which fortunately just so happened to be coming out right at that time. So I paid up roughly $1k, the prospect of a new M18x with 680M SLI and a two year warranty too enticing to refuse.

Point is, I don't know when the primary is going to let go, and limping along on a single 680M until non-reference Maxwell is released sometime 9-12 months from now isn't particularly attractive. And what if my mobo decides to let go from now to then? That should prove a real delight. Hey I can still play Flappy-Birds on my Samsung Galaxy 3!

Worse comes to worse I eat the $679 spent on the GPU and upgrade a year from now anyway OR I beat the living snot out of it and two-three years from now upgrade to Maxwell or Pascal.

And brings us to another things worth discussing. Yes Maxwell may be 40% faster than Kepler, but unless youre running a 4k monitor, DO YOU EVEN NEED THAT KIND OF GPU PROCESSING POWER? I mean, we can probably expect the majority of games that will be released in the coming years to be direct console ports, just as the majority of games of the past few years have been (with a few notable exceptions, Planetside 2, Natural Selection 2 etc.) WHAT KIND OF NEW GRAPHICAL TRICKS CAN BE ADDED TO THE MIX TO ACTUALLY UTILIZE A GPU 40% FASTER THAN KEPLER?! 16x MSAA?! No I am being serious here. Sure, if you have a 4k monitor, which I don't and may only really step up to 2560x1440 G-Sync, finances withstanding, sometime in the next few years, you will need a top of the line Maxwell or AMD equivalent card to push the console-port games at a tolerable frame-rate while retaining all of the bells-and-whistles graphical options such as SSAO, MSAA, DOF etc. but if youre not going 4k I think that the existing GPU technology should tide anyone over for at least another 5 years.

Well, that's it for my update, please share youre thoughts and opinions below.

 

Yeah, a 4820K doesn't necessarily perform any better that 3920XM or 3940XM, which would defeat the point of having a desktop CPU. Might as well stick with what you have versus that option.

 

Man I really wish I returned to this post more quickly before pulling the trigger on a few of these items. Anyhow, I need to thank-you for the advice, youre absolutely right the 540 Air has far superior airflow. It seems a big problem with conventional tower design is that the area above the PSU and the left of the GPU tends to trap a bit of heat, the design of the 540 completely removes this problem by positioning the GPU in a separate compartment and putting an additional fan in place of where the 5.25" are conventionally located.

I ate the return shipping charge on the 600 T and grabbed this case. Having dealt with the cramped confines of Alienware laptops for the past 3 years I an intimately familiar with the importance of airflow and cooling and just one look at the Corsair 540 Air and I could tell that it is far superior in this regard.

Thank-you 100 times over for this recommendation!

And I am going with a Noctua NH D-15 instead of the Corsair H100i but it is good to know that if I make the move to liquid AIO coolers in the future the 540 Air is far more accommodating in this regard. I already checked and this cooler should fit:

[Official] Corsair Carbide Air 540 Owner's Club +Gallery - Page 167

In the end I actually saved a bit of money by switching to the 540 Air as I was also going to pick up a 5.25" to 2.5" bay converter from Icy Dock, which runs about $70 or so, so that I could move my 2.5" HDD's and SSD from my laptop to one of the 5.25" bays and completely remove the included 3.5" bays that are sitting directly in front of the front 200mm fan on the Corsair 600 T, solely to un-restrict the airflow. But with the 540 all of that crap is removed altogether and the fans are actually much closer to the mobo and GPU for superior cooling!

Only issue is that this case doesn't include a dust filter for the PSU?

And another excellent suggestion I missed! The Kingpin is top-notch beast-mode for sure but unless I am a hydro cooling set-up how much more over 1300 Mhz core can one safely go? Another issue is that the total cost difference is nearly $200 ($679 vs. $859) with what appears to be only a marginal difference in performance on air compared to the EVGA 780 Ti Superclocked w/ ACX Cooler, which can push 1300 Mhz core if I am not mistaken:

EVGA GTX 780 Ti Classified K|ngp|n Edition Video Card Review - Overclocking | Hardware Asylum

I think I settled on a good card for the money for the time being, at least as far as air cooling goes, I could go with the Kingpin but really not without an additional liquid cooling back-plate and AIO cooler, say an H100i, bringing the total price difference well above $200, probably approaching $400 and at that point one might want to consider just picking up a second EVGA 780 Ti SC w/ ACX cooler for another $300.....

I'm also hearing rumors of 6GB 780 Ti....I'm with you Mr. Fox, I am not thrilled with only 3GB of VRAM, but it will be a step-up from the 2GB I have currently with 680M.

 

I'd say go for it. Ivy-E is a great platform and the six-core will serve you well for awhile, probably until Skylake-E comes out in 2016.

If you plan to SLI even tri-sli anytime, get the Corsair AX1200i. One PSU you will buy and keep for at least 5-7 years. Ever since I got mine, I never needed anything else, and that's with a 3-way GTX 480 setup in the past. I don't plan to upgrade it and it has a 7-year warranty. :thumbsup:

 

780 Ti 6GB is called the Titan Black...

 

The Corsair Carbide Air 540 is good, but the new Fractal Design Node 804 one upped it I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cXNveozvpM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAa5hmEXyxw
Both are square cube, both have dual chambers, left and right, but the great thing about the 804 is that one can fit both a 240mm rad and a 280mm rad in the top left and right chamber. You can't do that with the 540. Also the 804 can fit more 3.5" drives. The 540 doesn't have filter for PSU. One thing that the 540 is better, is the inclusion of a 2.5" drive rack.

It seems like Nvidia's Maxwell or AMD's Pirate Island will come a bit later than expected. Intel Broadwell (desktop) ships in Q1 2015, according to Wccftech. Mobile Broadwell will come earlier. In general mobile stuff always come before the desktop stuff now.

If you're getting quad core Haswell, remember to check this out:
Intel Devil's Canyon Core i7-4790K and Core i5-4690K Processors Confirmed - Core i7-4790K Boosts To 4.4 GHz
The new 4790K will have a base clock of 4GHz and boost to 4.4GHz, not sure if it's true, but at least Intel is using better TIM between the die and the heat spreader this time.

Problem with mobile Haswell, is heat. You will hit the silicon limit before you run into heat issue on a desktop, it's a slightly different situation. With the new TIM, if Intel can guarantee a base clock of 4GHz, that's something decent. I agree with your notion that unless one goes hexa core, there's no need to go Ivybridge E. It runs on X79 platform, which is almost 4 yrs old now. My opinion is that, if you're going hexa core, wait for Haswell-E and X99 chipset (ships Nov this yr). If not, go with Haswell's Devils Canyon 4790K (ships soon).

 

Thanks for the advice, you definitely know your stuff. I switched from the Corsair 600 T to the 540 Air, see the post above. I don't know, packing all those 240 MM coolers in that min-ATX case seems like a Houdini trick, even if it is possible. One thing that excites me about migrating from performance laptop to desktop is the prospect of having a superior case with ample space and air-flow, for these reasons I'm going with the case I just mentioned. As far as AMD over Nvidia, I am partial to Nvidia having been spoiled with PhysX (to me its really cool) and the prospect of mating this new computer to a G-Sync monitor is extremely tantalizing. That and I like that the Nvidia cards run cooler, the GPU I have settled on, an EVGA 780 Ti SC w/ ACX cooler is nearly 20 C cooler than reference under load and 30 C cooler than reference AMD 290x (63 C). And in the 540 Air I can probably expect even lower temps than that, most thermal testing of the 540 Air against other conventional tower designs show the test GPU 3-4 C cooler on average!

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/evga_geforce_gtx_780_ti_sc_acx_superclock_review,8.html

AnandTech | Corsair Carbide Air 540 Case Review

To me the Corsair 540 Air would have superior airflow as compared to the Fractal Node 804, for one the 540 has two 140mm fans in front and appears to have more room for AIO coolers as well. I ordered white, it was a hard choice between white and the original black but the white and silver versions come with white LED 140 mm fans. Funny how stupid LED fans determined my decision:

Newegg.com - Corsair Carbide Series Air 540 (CC-9011048-WW) Arctic White Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Cube Computer Case

I did get it for $100 ($10 rebate and promo code)! About $60 less than the 600 T, still cheaper even after eating the $28 return fee! Less expensive and better cooling, whats not to like?!

Oh and another reason 540 Air is better for me is that it has 2.5 inch SSD/HDD trays, aside from the two that sit in the bottom of the mobo compartment. It's kinda neat actually and again I am saving money in the end as I solely wanted to run 2.5" with them out of the way of airflow on the 600 T.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVIWUU8kHvE

That's what you would think, but PC Gaming gave it less than stellar remarks in their comparison:

GTX Titan Black vs. GTX 780 Ti: which is the ultimate gaming GPU? | PC Gamer

And then there is the issue of non-reference Titan Black running $300-400 more than non-reference 780 Ti. Those additional 3G of VRAM BETTER be utilized for that much more.

EVGA - Products - Graphics - GeForce TITAN Series Family - GTX TITAN BLACK

 

I have considered the Corsair, but I'd still go with Fractal Design. It's a design language that I like. It's like how Porsche designs their cars, form follows functionality. Design wise, my opinion is that the Corsair has too much wasted space in the back chamber (not space efficient) given how big it's, and the side panel see with see through plastic is very flimsy. Fractal Design cases are usually heavier because they use thicker steel. I can put 10 3.5" drives in the Node 804, but only 4 in the Corsair Air 540. Also, Corsair don't include a fan controller, but the Node 804 has one. Coupled with the other fan controller that I have from my older Fractal Design case, I can control 6 fans. With a few Y splitter I can double that.

It's the little aspects that shows how much effort is put into the design. Your case (note the pun) is a bit different from mine, since you don't need the rad space. It's all air cooler. Personally the Node 804 is the better chassis for me, but if you don't need the features the Corsair is a good case too. Also, you are also going with a big E-ATX motherboard, but I am going with smaller micro ATX board since I don't need a case with 8-10 PCIE slots. Still, if I go with a full ATX board, I will get the Corsair Air 540 too.

The Rampage IV Black is an extended ATX board. I have checked for you, it will fit into the Corsair Air 540 (see the specs here: Newegg.com - Corsair Carbide Series Air 540 (CC-9011030-WW) Black Steel / Plastic ATX High Airflow Cube Case).

Going with single GPU, it makes more sense to stick to Nvidia, but with dual GPU, I prefer the more elegant 295x2.

GSync haven't taken off yet, and I haven't really seen a GSync capable monitor available on the market, on Newegg/Amazon. There're models that have been announced, but nothing confirmed yet.

 

Honestly, you're gonna be super happy with the 540. I really do like the Fractal Design Node 804 as well, and if I was going to go for a Micro ATX build, it would surely be at the top of a very short list. The dual chamber design of these two cases is something that I honestly can't believe case designers hadn't thought of years ago, it just makes so much sense! In the end, when my wife built her desktop, she needed the 540 because she was reusing the same Asus Rampage III Extreme that my desktop is based one (we both built ours at the same time 4 years ago, same motherboard and CPU setups). The 540 allows for some SERIOUSLY big motherboards, and we figured that when we do upgrade our MB/CPU's, that case will be ready for whatever we throw at it.

It is a little bit disappointing not having a PSU dust filter, but we just blast hers out every couple of weeks with these (BEST PURCHASE EVER, you'll never need CO2 cans again and they provide more air pressure) and all is well:

http://www.amazon.com/O2-Hurricane-...55091&sr=8-2&keywords=rechargeable+air+duster

As for the choice in GPUs, it'll kick the crap out of anything you throw at it up to 1440p for a long time. When you do find it getting overworked eventually, just add another! By the time that happens, another one will cost you substantially less anyway and you'll be good for another couple years.

Anyway, you're gonna LOVE your new beast, really. If I was going to build another desktop today, I would also be building a 6-core Ivy Bridge, they're really THAT good! You're gonna have a case and motherboard that will allow your platform to grow as needed for quite some time, and that means a lot. Don't go silent on us, I for one would like to see photos and a build blog for your new baby.

P.S. Even though the wifey isn't a member here, she's always aware of the current events through me (especially when she wants to know why I'm taking pictures of her "Borg Cube"). She INSISTS that I disclose to everyone that her baby was built 100% by her hands and not mine

 

Mr Vulcan can always buy some magnetic filter to put on the PSU intake.

I really think that the X79 platform is getting rather old now. Look at the benchmarks, your SSDs will run slower just because it's X79 and not Z87/Z99. Ivybridge-E is great, but X79 is not so, anymore.

Edit:
There's even custom made filter for that side vent for the 540.
http://www.demcifilter.com/p0434/Corsair-Air-540-Side-Dust-Filter.aspx
I think even a generic 140mm filter would do fine. PSU fans don't spin that fast anyway.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999226

So...some pictures?

The 500W PSU is enough for an overclocked 4770K and 290X? Have you ever ran Furmark and Prime95/Linpack at the same time? Seem like it might come close to maxing out the PSU.

I can always put the 240mm AIO cooler on top of the second chamber in the Node 804, which you can't do with the Corsair. You have to either put it in front or on top of the first chamber.

The Corsair Air 540 is out for some time now, while the Node 804 just came out. I am pretty sure upon seeing the Node, Corsair will release an updated Air 540 sooner or later.

 

Yeah it's really not a smart idea to be investing into the X79 platform at this point in time. Hell, even Z97 with Devil's Canyon Haswell and eventual Broadwell support is a much better choice IMO.

 

Brothere Vulcan, the new 2011-3 motherboard should be just around the corner. Then you can have yourself some DDR4 and 8 core Definitely future proof

 

That's if the OP wants to wait another four-six months.

I know I'm probably waiting for Broadwell-E or Skylake-E unless I magically get computer funds.

 

Not to mention M.2/SATAe, PCIe 3.0, and more USB3/SATA3. But I think the issue is he can't wait long enough for all that good stuff to come out near the end of the year, otherwise that's the no-brainer as has been said many times in this thread (and I basically spent an hour last night repeating the same thing over PlanetSide 2 voice chat ).

 

http://www.amazon.com/Metro-Vacuum-ED500-500-Watt-Electric/dp/B001J4ZOAW/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

I really recommend this duster, I've had it for years and it works well.

 

Now the question is, is it better to suck, or to blow?

OK on a serious note, with filters one can both suck or blow the dust away, but using compressed air seems to make it easier. On sensitive components, I think compressed air is safer. I usually just use a rubber air ball pump.

 

Problem is, Haswell processors kind of suck, and unless I missed something, Haswell does not have any 6-core beast options. Being newer doesn't gain them any Brownie points because Haswell processors still get their hind ends torn off and devoured in small chunks by Ivy-E. If you appreciate having a faster SSD over a more powerful CPU it might be worth it, but I can't "feel" any difference in normal use between an SSD attached to a SATA-2 port versus one attached to a SATA-3 port, and the faster SSD doesn't churn out higher FPS in games or higher 3DMark scores. I definitely love faster anything, but above anything and everything else, having the most wicked CPU and GPU(s) money can buy seems like "Enthusiast 101" to me. AFAIK, X79 with 4930K and 4960X are still the only ticket to the winner's circle for number chasers. The nice thing about ASUS RIVE BE is you get like 6 SATA-3 ports and 4 SATA-2 port, and for X79 that's pretty great. I think there is nothing that's "not to love" about it unless you value having a very compact chassis.

 

True, first iteration of Haswell kinda sucked, but rumor is Intel has a few tricks up its sleeve for Devil's Canyon beyond just the TIM improvement. And for gaming at least, hexa-core and the extra PCIe lanes don't make a difference until you start adding several more top-end GPU's.

 

Well, I'll believe it when I see it. It sounds promising, but so did Haswell. I hope it is awesome, but I'm skeptical since they have already set a precedent of lying and delivering mediocrity.

I don't personally like to do the "but it is OK for gaming" thing with computers. I prefer to do the "best option for winning at number chasing" thing and then the gaming gig is automatically taken care of. I've never been much for compromises... I kind of like the idea of showing up at a knife fight armed with rockets, grenades and chain guns. Even razor sharp Ninja swords don't stand a chance against nukes and WMDs. The goal is to exterminate, not to play nice. This is why I have such a huge problem with how the Alienware 18 turned out.

 

Haswell-E is coming out with 6 cores and 8 cores CPU.

I agree with octiceps, anything more than a quad core CPU is more for showoff, you won't really get any FPS improvements until you go beyond dual GPU.

 

For some people showing off is better than having nothing that warrants being showed off...

It's a personal choice to not accept any compromises on anything if you can avoid it. I enjoy number chasing more than gaming, and showing off is always fun. I don't think I would bother building myself a desktop unless it were 3-way or 4-way SLI. I might start with two until I had the money for two more, but I would make sure my mobo and PSU supported a minimum of three 400-500W GPUs and a 130W hex core CPU as a pre-requisite.

 

Well of course Mr. Fox need not apply.

 

Well I just wanted to say that I am really excited and eager to put this thing together and really appreciate all of the feedback and advice. Today I switched to a case with superior cooling and the 4930 for a combined price difference of only an additional $70.

Previous build:

Corsair 600 T: $160
Icy Dock 5.25" to 2.5" bay converter: $70
amazon.com return fee -$28
i7 4820 $324
tax: $42 (~8%)

Total: $568

Current Build:

Corsair Carbide 540 Air: $100
i7 4930: $540
tax: $0 (newegg and ebay respectively)

Total: $640

This is really awesome, I will now have a significantly faster CPU and a significantly better case design for nearly the same overall cost layout.

Another change I made to the preliminary build is that I cancelled the order of the Noctua NH D-14 as the successor, the NH D-15 is to be released right about now or in only a few weeks time and all testing shows it to offer about 4 C cooler temperatures with the same noise level and similar footprint to the predecessor albeit slightly more expensive at $100 compared to $70.

So for roughly the same total price layout as before I can expect a significantly faster CPU with roughly 4 C cooler CPU temps with the newer air-cooler and with the 540 Air roughly 3-4 C lower GPU temps (test GPU in previous link was a GTX 580 loaded up with an avg. temp reduction of 4 C with the 540 Air) and likely even lower CPU temps (the top front fan of the Corsair 540 Air is right in line with Noctua Air-coolers on existing builds with the exhaust fan at the back of the case right in line as well, this appears to be an excellent, if not the best, case for a Noctua air-cooler) to say nothing of lower motherboard and RAM temps.

I am extremely stoked. Thank-you guys so much for the help, especially with taking the time to point out the fact that the case I had originally selected is of an obsolete design and that superior alternatives, at least air-flow wise, are available.

Wish me luck that I get good parts and that this thing fires right up on first attempt!

 

There's a couple pics posted on my second reply to this thread, when I took them she wanted to know why

Surprisingly, the 500w PSU has stood the harshest tests I've thrown at it thus far. I was seriously skeptical at first whether or not it would be able to keep up, so I was planning on replacing it with a 600w server PSU. Currently, the 4770k is sitting at 4.5 ghz and the 290X is sitting at 1125 core and 1450 memory clocks and it's been nothing but smooth sailing. I have indeed run Furmark and Prime95 side by side, and it held out just fine for the 30 minutes that I was willing to let it beat my components for. According to Jacob (EVGA's product manager who's incredibly active on their forums), the PSU is severely underrated and if I can fit it in the case, it will power it along with the overclocks. For a small media center PC, it's got some serious chops

 

LOL! I couldn't simply "like" this comment, I had to quote and LOL!

 

Good luck to Mr. Vulcan with your new build. I will hold out for the Haswell-E to pair it with the 295x2.

As long as my 18 doesn't fail catastrophically...

Wooh what a testament to the quality of EVGA PSU. That's why when I do my build, I think I will get the EVGA SuperNOVA 1000W. By the way, your PC is no longer a media center, it's a portable LAN gaming rig, it's a bomb of a rig. Your wife must be pretty good if she built it herself.

I had thought of having such tiny case too, but I want a bit more, I want to have the ability to do SLI/Crossfire, so it has to be mATX instead of mITX.

 

Clarification: she built the "Borg Cube" in the 540 case (the only time she asked me for help was when she needed some holes drilled through the compartment wall for the reservoir mount), I built the media center PC.

Hers:





And yes, the EVGA Supernovas are OUTSTANDING. Right now, the EVGA PSUs and the Corsair PSUs seem to be the most reliable pieces of kit out there, can't go wrong either way.

 

Just because certain chip wont overclock dosent mean its broken. Ive had graphic cardscthad didnt wanna oc and they lasted for years...

Sent from my C1905 using Tapatalk

 

This is true, you don't always win the chip lottery. However, Vulcan has been running his at a stable overclock for quite some time and now they're refusing to keep up. That's not a good sign, means they're getting tired

 

The ecig next to the gaming rig really makes me feel like you captured a part of my essence as well.

 

If it were me and you really wanted to go down the HEDT path i would wait for X99 with Haswell-E cpu's. Though speaking from experience X79 is not everything its cracked up to be infact i was very disapointed with it,very slow to boot for a start primitive bios's limited 6GB/s sata ports plus most applications cant utilize 6 or even 8 cores. As an alternative have you considered Z97 which is about to be released? You get m2 SSD support which gives you around 800MB/s disk speed without having to RAID them plus 6x 6GB/s sata ports and Devils Canyon 4790K cpu support,4Ghz stock turbos upto 4.4Ghz without overclocking should be good for 5Ghz when overclocked!!! Maybe a Corsair AXi760 digital power supply which are much better than an analog psu and much more efficient (7 year warranty) Z97 will be compatible with Broadwell as well so more future proofing,just my 2 cents

 

LOL you make 5 GHz sound so impressive when 3 years ago we could do that with Sandy Bridge quite easily without requiring exotic cooling and crazy voltages. My i5-2500K has been humming along quite nicely at 4.8 GHz for a couple years now and all I've got on it is a cheapo Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO in push-pull. But this is the year I finally switch that out for an 8C/16T i7-5930K Haswell-E beast and Maxwell/Pirate Islands, or CrossFire a couple R9 290's if the new GPU's don't show up before the end of the year.

 

But consider the fact that very few 4770K will do 4.8Ghz stable yet alone 5Ghz point being there is every reason to think from early reports that 4790K will be a much much better overclocking chip given its stock frequency of 4.4Ghz:thumbsup:

 

The cynical side of me wants to believe that it's still a dud and Intel simply used up most of the overclocking headroom at the factory. :laugh:

 

^so much of this

 

Will have to find out after we see it, but something inside of me is saying beware of something that looks good on the outside. They have a ton of apologizing left to do for Haswell. I do not trust them to do what is in our best interests yet, and they will need to re-earn that trust. Remember, they're drinking the "efficiency" Kool-Aid. We know that kind stuff is laced with urine and garnished with rose-colored feces.

Plus, if it turns out to be true and it actually is awesome, 4.4GHz as a stock frequency will become the new norm and baseline on what the bare minimum acceptable factory clock speed is and it won't represent anything special from that point forward. We'll be looking for 5.5-6.0GHz overclocks as evidence of goodness. If Haswell-E is not off the hook fantastic, then they will need to start over with a new batch of apologies to supplement what they already owe us for the abortion known as Haswell.

I think this is exactly what AMD did with 7970M. I think it explains why they don't overclock well and are prone to failure.

 

Mini ITX x99 with haswell-e (In in one cooler) Plus Radeon 295X2 with a super efficient power supply and an M.2 SSD so no cables inside the computer.

 

Wow that is amazing, I'm looking at 540 Air builds and some are just breathtaking, this one has to be my personal favorite:

[Official] Corsair Carbide Air 540 Owner's Club +Gallery - Page 651

My personal build will look very similar to this one in the video below, with the same air-cooler, difference being obviously different mobo, GPU and case-color but the white does come equipped with the same white LED fans. I feel like this case was a total steal at only $100.



When I was first considering the 600T, many of the issues I had with it, the 5.25 and 3.25/2.5 storage bays obstructing the air-flow in front of the case, the PSU sitting right under the GPU as with every other conventional tower design together which trap a good deal of heat and the fact that if one should decide to go with an AIO cooling set-up youre really limited as putting a 240 mm rad in the ceiling will only work as push or pull, were all addressed with the design of the 540 Air. I was going to spend $70 on a good 5.25" to 2.5" bay converter so that I could completely remove the 3.5/2.5" storage sitting behind the front fan but even then I was already wondering if there was an aftermarket fan that could be housed in the 5.25" bay area!

Unless running greater voltage contributes to premature failure, and even then were talking 1.025 V up from .986 V, the temps have been kept within non-overclocked parameters, usually not exceeding 65-70 C at 3700 RPM with certain games (Crysis 3, Far Cry 3, Skyrim+ ENB) getting them up to 75 C Max. It was my understanding that heat was the sole contributor to wear and eventual failure and that as long as you mitigated that the sky was the limit as far as voltage is concerned. Here are a few snapshots of recent Vantage runs before failure:



View attachment 111945

Well to me 4930 seems to offer comparable performance on default clocks compared to 4770k but when overclocked it positively destroys 4770k synthetic bench-wise. Seeing as how I already had settled on this particular 2011 socket board, mainly to avoid the increasingly common and without solution "time-freeze" issue found on Z87 boards (see original post), spending up another $190 from 4820, which also runs with a 4770 on factory clocks but also hands it it's on a platter when overclocked as most seem to take 4.8 Ghz, was a no-brainer. And Ivy E runs about 10-15 C cooler than Haswell, something everyone who intends to overclock should consider when comparing 4770k, 4820 and 4930:

Intel i7-4930K & i7-4820K Ivy Bridge-E Review - Page 16

An apparently common issue with computing technology, particularly new chipset and mobo design, is that these things seem to be pushed out of production and into waiting customers hands before adequate testing and many problems arise after the fact. Take for example the "time-freeze" issue common among Z87 boards (again, see initial post). Going with existing, proven tech means one can completely avoid these issues. Sure, octo-core Haswell E may very well breach the elusive 5.0 Ghz barrier, but what if you end up with the problem above? It isn't a minor issue, there is no solution, and manufacturers, particularly Asus are skirting responsibility of the issue. I will take something that stands a greater probability of working problem-free, even if that means I have to settle for "only" a hex-core at 4.7 Ghz. And again, as with existing GPU tech being more than adequate, aside from benchmarking bragging rights, what program, what game, is going to be using the kind of computing power promised by Haswell E?

While looking at 4770k, 4820 and 4930 one piece of data that I ran across that I found intriguing is that approximately 1-5% of 4770k chips can OC beyond 4.5 Ghz while 20-25% of Ivy E can.

 

^THIS!!!

With Haswell, the odds of winning the chip lottery are less favorable than ever, I've heard of some people getting such bad chips that breaking 4.2ghz was a chore. The absolute highest I could get mine was to 4.6ghz, and that took HOURS of tinkering. I ran it for a little while just to test stability and then run some benchmarks, then dialed it back down to 4.5ghz where it's been happily running ever since. General rule of thumb for me is to find the highest sustainable level (within a reasonable temperature range) and then take it back just a notch to ensure longer component life and stability. Seriously though, even though the performance has been great so far and it's proven stable, Haswell was NOT a good experience for me as an overclocker.

 

Those that can claim otherwise are few and far between.

 

And yet my 4770K is very stable at 4.8Ghz and memory at 2400Mhz,i didnt find it a chore at all,clocked higher than my 3930K would that topped out at 4.6Ghz

 

For a Haswell that sounds like a golden sample. Did you de-lid and what Vcore and CPU cooler? What are your temps?

 

No delid Vcore 1.45 with Koolance CPU380i waterblock and EX2-1055 Cooler temps with XTU stability test in the mid 70s,cooling makes a HUGE difference,slightly higher Vcore than i would like but that's what it takes to get it stable with memory at 2400Mhz...i can go down to 1.36v @4.8 Ghz with memory at 1866Mhz and its still stable,volts arent really an issue as long as you can keep it cool,generally its the heat generated by the volts that cause the chip to degrade not the volts itself at least to a point anything above 1.6V will kill a Haswell cpu on air/water.