RIP - Alienware 18

Mine's doing quite well, actually, but this might be an issue over definitions and standards. Would you mind elaborating a bit on the framerate issues (lowest, highest, throttling and average, etc.).

Quite a few of us are using the SLi 880M now with the custom vBIOS. It shouldn't be an issue with actual gaming. My experience has been great, actually and I can say ahead of even certain overclocked 780M units, but this has been due to the quintessential work from others in the community, which takes us to the next point. Nvidia have been lazy with support.

 

I was playing Far Cry 4 on ultra settings with 2xMsaa with v sync and getting 60 fps most of the time, but dropping to 45ish in intensive scenes. Then I turned on Soft shadows and God rays and its plummeted to 40 max and then down to as low as 25 fps some times.

I haven't noticed any issues with most other games, but this is the first gaming laptop I have owned so I don't know what to expect and I haven't overclocked my cards or anything.

Far Cry 4 is the worst performing game I have tried on it so far but everything else I have tried runs ultra settings at decent framerates, around 60 fps. Maybe Far Cry 4 is just very demanding?

 

Have you checked benchmarks of the game done by websites with similar GPUs?

 

Yeah, that actually doesn't sound quite right. I know that this is a bit of a trivial question, but are you sure you have SLi activated?

I could agree on it being demanding save for the fact that even maximised with god rays and ultra shadows, one wouldn't be struggling at SLi with a roughly 40 FPS rate. Here's a video of the game running with roughly the same settings, just SMAA (as opposed to 2xMSAA) with god rays and ultra shadows, and it's managing decently on just a single 880M GTX; settings are available at the 2 minute mark.



It is certainly a demanding game but that doesn't necessarily mean it's beyond the scope of your system. There have been complaints about graphical issues and inconsistencies on the PC platform. I'll pull out the Alienware 18 and give it a proper run again just to confirm the performance on 880M SLi and get back to you on that front.

Edit:

I've done a small run with Far Cry 4, fully maximised as per the 'Nvidia' setting, which includes everything on ultra with Soft Shadows, TXAAx4 and Enhanced God Rays. I got performance in the range of 35 (at the absolute lowest)-65 FPS, with the general frame rate average being in the range of 50, and this is with stock video BIOS. SLV's vBIOS further improves things by a decent margin as those lower dips of 35 bump up to the 40-45 range. I've attached three photos I took with the camera, so excuse the quality.

 

Ok thanks I will try Far Cry 4 again, Sli is enabled.

What results should I be getting with benchmarks?

I have tried these and this is what I got.

Firestrike: 8239

Sky Diver: 21732

3D Mark 11: P11613

Catzilla: 21414

 

Just tried it with one 880M get around 15FPS with Nvidia settings. 30FPS with SLI.

The guy in the video doesn't have soft shadows enabled, soft shadows is the killer to framerate.,

 

Well, soft shadows do have an impact but not nearly enough to justify such a massive hit ( http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTQyMTA1NzU0NWVoZmdWZVBMQjhfM18zX2wuZ2lm). Furthermore, as you can see, I've got it all running maximised on Nvidia setting, even with TXAA all the way at 4 along with soft shadows *and* enhanced god rays, and the performance isn't nearly as low as what you're experiencing. As a matter of fact, I can say mine's running quite nicely. I can't be sure what is missing from the equation.

Your 3DMark11 score seems to be okay for a stock run, but is likely to be quite a bit higher with the SLV vBIOS due to lack of throttling. Try giving Unigine Valley a try with the following settings: DX11; Stereo 3D Disabled; Monitors Single; Anti-Aliasing x 8; Resolution 1920 x 1080 and report back your score and average frame rate for a benchmark run.

I'll dig further into some Far Cry 4 technical threads to see if others are experiencing an exceptionally poor performance with dual GPU rigs--compared to other similar systems--in the manner that you are at the moment.

 

Hi thanks for your help I got these scores in Unigine valley:

62.3 FPS
Score: 2605

That's on Ultra settings along with the settings you mentioned.

 

Yeah, your scores seem right, which kind of rules out the possibility of hardware issues on your side. I'm genuinely convinced that this is some exclusive issue with Far Cry 4, which a minority of folk are reporting is giving problems from very unstable frame rate issues to just downright low frame rates. Is your copy of the game fully up to date or are you using an older version?

For your information, my system is currently running everything at stock, vBIOS included, Windows 8.1, with the official Nvidia 347.25 driver. I'm sharing this if you're interested in possibly duplicating my system environment to see if you can get the same results.

 

It's worth doing a clean install of your graphics drivers.

 

I'm using driver 347.52.
Also having weird graphical issues with Far Cry 4, getting flashing shadows over the whole screen sometimes, and if I change some graphical settings sometimes I get a kind of see through still shot of my scrreen overlayed on top of whats currently being displayed.
What version of Far Cry 4 do you have?
Ive tried it with updates 8 and 9 and get these graphical issues on both.
Came across this video where someone has the same problem, seems its an SLI issue with the new update:

 

I avoided the last few updates after hearing about the constant issues people were reporting from frame rate issues to the flickering, which also plagued Assassin's Creed Unity. I believe I'm on update 3, but I can't confirm at this very moment. A real shame, actually, since it's becoming a bit of a trend for Ubisoft.

Also, as per Meaker's advice, I would certainly suggest a proper, clean driver install if you haven't done so already.

 

Im going to try an earlier version of Far cry 4 to see if I can get better results.

I had another issue so I reinstalled windows but im still getting around 25 - 35 fps with all Nvidia settings on. It seems that soft shadows impact the framerate by about 20 fps, which seems ridiculous.

Wish Alienware would sort it out so I can upgrade to 980'Ms.

 

Reinstalling the OS wouldn't necessarily help with issues coming from a specific game, but it helps to rule that out as another factor.

If you're really looking to move up then if possible, you should return the system or sell it off and purchase a 980M SLi Clevo. Performance leap will be substantial in the region of generally at least 25% to a hefty 45%.

Although it bears repeating that certain games will behave poorly because of issues specific to the coding and this is a kind of compromise one has to accept while PC gaming in the present climate. For example: I just can't seem to duplicate your specific problem, especially with soft shadows taking such a huge hit, on my system; however, I do understand that similar problems are randomly affecting certain folk so in this specific case, I have more of an axe to grind with Ubisoft than either Nvidia or Dell.

 

Yeah was thinking of maybe returning it. Say if I got one of the new alienwares with the graphics amplifier, would a single desktop 980 outperform 880m sli?

Id probably either go that route or get a desktop instead.

 

Yep it gets a higher score

 

Annoying though as the new laptops only have 16GB ram. Im pretty much usually at 50% of my 32GB ram most of the time. Does anyone know if the Falcon Northwest laptops are upgradeable? there the nicest looking apart from Alienware. Sorry im shallow lol, I want a good looking laptop.

 

We're kind of splitting hair with synthetic benchmark scores and the differences are too variable if one is looking to overcome a solid 20 FPS of performance gap. Also, the scores for the card in the amplifier are not looking too challenging in comparison to even a single GTX 980M, lending even more weight to the the splitting hair analogy.

If one wants a proper upgrade, and not a side-grade and potential downgrade to the 780M/880M SLi, then the best option is to move to another brand that actually offers non-BGA SLi support for Maxwell series (970M/980M GTX onwards).

 

Played some advanced warfare last night with settings maxed out and 2xSSAA on, was surprised how smooth the framrate was, can see it fills up my gpu ram all the way up to 7GB, so seems these cards are good for some things.

 

This article explains how poor the performance of Far Cry 4 is for Kepler cards:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015/01/07/far_cry_4_video_card_performance_review/9#.VQnL_Y6sUmM

 

Advanced warfare engine is total crap as Dying Light one. Don't measure performance of your computer at this "engines" because they're crappy. Play something like Warthunder that has a good engine.

 

I'm Pretty sure that the reason why your getting such high framerates with txxaa and soft shadows on is because soft shadows were broken until the later updates.

 

Im just making a point that advanced warfare uses 7GB of ram, I haven't seen another game that does this, I'd hardly describe the games engine as crappy, its the smoothest running game ive played on PC at max settings.

2xSSAA is very demanding so its impressive the game runs so well with this enabled.

 

AW will cache to fill up as much VRAM as you have. It actually runs great at max settings on cards with just 2GB VRAM.

 

^ Yeah, just because it fills up the VRAM doesn't mean that it's necessarily pushing the system. The title that actually requires high VRAM is Shadow of Mordor with the ultra textures and that's where anything less than 4GB will result in sharp momentary dips in frame rate.

Based on what you've stated about broken soft shadows, Jedfactor, I'm going to give Far Cry 4 another run with the latest update and share my results. If you have a reference for the soft shadows being broken, please do share, because this is kind of the first I'm hearing about the matter. As it stands, I'm not entirely convinced that they're completely broken since they do have a discernible performance impact on my system, which is about exactly what is implied in that article that you've been reading. With the Maxwell cards, the soft-shadows have about a 14% impact on frame rate, and in my experience, the performance has been around 15-20% impacted with Kepler because the frame rate does climb by a decent 5-10 FPS with soft shadows turned down to ultra (in which case my lowest frame rate will be 40-45 and the average will increase similarly, as will the highest frame rate). I'm giving this a shot anyway because it's always good to develop more knowledge and challenge potential misconceptions.

By the way, here's a video of a similar version of Far Cry 4 running on 980M SLi, maxed out (soft shadows, TXAAx4, Enhanced God Rays):

 

With my cards at 1266/1500 I should perform similarly to a 970 SLI desktop setup (but without the odd memory config). I've had no performance issues so far

 

Its mentioned in the article

''
Patch 1.5.0 also fixed the dark shadow SLI bug many people were experiencing when SLI was being used. This one didn't get specifically mentioned in the patch notes, but NVIDIA confirmed this was fixed in patch 1.5.0. We also reported to NVIDIA the SLI ghosting issue associated with SMAA and SLI being enabled.



Soft Shadows



In addition to some other problems, we have also been in contact with NVIDIA about Soft Shadow image quality in this game. Prior to this patch Soft Shadows was bugged and not being enabled even if you turned these on. This patch fixed that, and Soft Shadows now work. However, we have learned that there will be more tweaks made to Soft Shadows in the future. We have also reported a bug where the shadows flicker on and off as you move closer to and farther away from objects. These issues are known, and perhaps future patches will upgrade Soft Shadow image quality in this game.''

But yeah I can't get decent framerates with TXAA enabled either, think TXAA has more of an impact than soft shadows after playing it earlier.

It works well with SMAA and everything else turned up.

Other than that I get a graphical glitch when going into and out of the menu screen, sometimes the graphics mess up and I get a static overlay of another image over the screen.

Think im going to give up on this game for now.

 

You have 980M's I take it?

 

Yes I do.

 

I'm Jealous

 

Jedfactor,

I updated Far Cry 4 to 1.8 and put the game through the paces in the very same section as the last run. Apart from some mild improvements in the visuals (the shadows do look improved with better lighting and softness), the frame rate is still around the same range save for a mild loss of about 5 in certain sections, but the returned improvements in overall consistency in other areas certainly doesn't diminish the experience or render the game unplayable. Again, it never drops below 30 frames per second and when I reduce TXAA to 2, or use MSAA x 2, I gain an extra 10 FPS. With SMAA, the frame rate goes up even further by another 10-15 (depending on what's happening on the screen). I'm also not getting any of the shadow, SLi ghosting or image flickering issues.

 

The shadow flashing is an issue with update 1.9. That's strange then I wonder why I'm getting such low results.

do you have any other games that you are playing at the moment so I could compare my results with those to rule them out?

 

Broken shadows. Fixed shadows. Differently broken shadows. Glorious work, Ubi! Do it again.

The system *might* be getting sold so my ability to contribute on this front will be diminished. However, up until now, I've been playing the following and I've left a rough approximation of the average performance next to each title.

Alien: Isolation (Maximised) - Dual GPU: >100 FPS - Single GPU: >60 FPS
Assassin's Creed Unity (Maximised) - Dual GPU: ~44 FPS - With FXAA (instead of MSAA x 4): ~55-60 FPS
Battlefield 4 (Maximised) - Dual GPU: ~90 FPS - Single GPU (w/ toned down anti-aliasing): ~60 FPS
Crysis 1 (Ultra Quality Mod w/Advanced Depth of Field) - Dual GPU: >90 FPS - Single GPU: ~57 FPS
Crysis 3 (Maximised) - FXAA: ~65 FPS - SMAA x 2: ~55 FPS- MSAA x 8: ~35-40 FPS
Dragon Ball Z Xenoverse (Maximised) - Only Single GPU (works the same on cards from 2011): >60 FPS
The Evil Within (Maximised) - Only Single GPU: ~45-50 FPS
Hitman Absolution (Maximised w/ FXAA) - Single GPU: ~55-60 FPS - Dual GPU: >90 FPS
Max Payne 3 (Maximised) - MSAA x 8: ~40 FPS - MSAA x 2: ~60 FPS.
Metro 2033 Redux (Maximised) - Dual GPU: ~60 FPS - (With Extreme [email protected] GHz on 680M SLI): ~65-70 FPS <- This game's peak performance and GPU scaling benefit greatly when the CPU is pushed to the 4GHz mark and beyond.
Resident Evil HD Remaster (Maximised) - Only Single GPU: >60 FPS (single GPU utterly devours this game up while barely being used to 50% capacity)
Sleeping Dogs (Maximised) - Dual GPU: ~75-80 FPS
The Witcher 2 (Maximised w/o Uber Sambling) - Dual GPU: >95FPS - Single GPU: ~55-60 FPS

 

Your Witcher 2 settings are without ubersampling? get around 150fps without ubersampling.

Battlefield 4 I only got around 70fps average, it was quite variable though depending on what was happening.

Assassins creed Unity is exactly the same.

 

You forgot to add:

Far Cry 4 Ultra Nvidia - 100,000,000 FPS - Single 880M

LOL.

 

With The Witcher 2 the 90s are on the lower side of the framerate, I will have moments where I'll be getting 150.

And mind you, that's rather good performance for Assassin's Creed Unity, but I was already convinced that your overall system performance is fine since your benchmarks seem fine, especially the Unigine Valley score as that one doesn't typically throttle. The issue here seems rather specific to Far Cry 4. Speaking of which . . .

Heh. Sure. But don't be surprised if I end up reporting just that since we had one member who suddenly started getting a frame rate in the 1000s (obviously, a report bug in the software) for Far Cry 4 after one of these updates. But yeah, you know my reads for this game. Average in the ~45 range and the lowest point would be 30, both of them change for the better if I use the custom vBIOS to circumvent the throttling.

 

Sli does not work so great in mech warrior online, with hacks each card does about 60% which does 90-100 fps at 1440p.

 

Did you use DX11 SLI bits 0x000000F5 and Force AFR 2?

 

Yeah it's funny I get better performance with Unity than Far Cry 4, I'm going to just wait and see if the next patch improves my far Cry 4 performance, hopefully they will fix the SLI flashing shadows soon.

Could I get poorer performance because I am using a cracked version?

 

I bought an alienware 18 in January 2014.Its a great machine when it works but mine got ****ed up all the time.2014 March it started overheating and my heatsink and motherboard got replaced.The engineer did terrible job and broke some bits from my palm rest panel so that got replaced afterwards to ctober i had another motherboard problem and it got replaced again.February i got some problem with my power cable.It was disconnecting and then showing that its plugged but not charging.From Dell they said motherboard needs to be changed so they came over a week ago to change it.The engineer pretty much wrecked the palm rest and the base by ripping off 16 clippers from the boards and the motherboard didnt work.He left and 3 days later another one came with a new board and new base and palm rest.He put everything in place but when we turned on the laptop the touch pad didnt work.So he opened the laptop again and in the process another 10 bits of the clippers holding the panels together broke.From dell they said they will send new base and palm rest and new motherboard again.This time i called that i wasnt happy and they said that they could refund me or swap my laptop.I was happy for the swap until they said they dont make alien 18 anymore.Now i have an option to get refund or swap for ****ty alien 17.
I got my alienware fully maxed up last year with i7 4930mx processor 32gb ram,dual 870m video cards and im really confused about what to do now.I dont want to give back my alienware 18 but again it made so many problems already i dont know if it is right to keep it.
Life sux.

 

Jumhur,

At this point, with Alienware, you're limited to BGA 17, 15 and 13 inch models with the only means of getting added graphical push with a Graphics Amplifier (GA). I don't personally recommend these, but if you think you'd be happy with the GA unit attached to your system for gaming at home, then do make sure you ask for the maximised specification (if you got your system upgrades from Dell and they're covered by warranty) of the 17 inch model with the single 980M GTX *and* the Graphics Amplifier as part of your replacement negotiation. You're essentially giving up a customisable dual GPU system for something that isn't customisable and it doesn't matter how good its single GPU is on offer, it will lack something that your system could potentially offer. The closest compensation that Dell can offer you for a proportional trade off is the 17 inch model with the graphics amplifier as part of the deal and covered under warranty. Having that said, if you're being offered a full refund then--depending on how much you paid--I would highly suggest that you take it and move to a Clevo-based dual GPU system.


Jedfactor,

I would definitely not rule out a cracked version as a potential problematic factor. This can obviously lead to 'undocumented' problems that won't have appropriate official support or recognition in the support forums. Still, one can't say anything conclusively on this topic. It's a possibility.

 

Thanks for your reply Kade,
I talked to Dell today.The thing is since i am a student now and my finals are coming i cant be left without a computer.I asked them to refund me and meanwhile let me use my laptop until the alienware 17 comes to my house but they said no.(went for the alien 17 because it seemed the fastest option to get for the moment) So now they came with solution to let me use my alienware 18 until june 23rd and i can get full refund once my academic year is over.Once i get my refund i think i might go for a decent laptop,might be the alienware 17 just because i like them and build myself a monster desktop since most of the time i work and play at home.The refund is around the sum of 3700 british pounds.Most of the programs i use dont support SLI so even though its cool to have it i didnt really benefit from it during my year with dual CPU laptop.So i might drop the SLI for the laptop and spank a desktop with dual titans sometime this summer

 

No worries, dude. That's quite a bit of cash that we're talking about. You could easily get a Clevo 980M SLi from DinoPC with 3 years of full parts and labour warranty and have at least another £1500 to spare for a desktop, if you're interested in going that way.

 

These guys from Alienware piss me off.I just got a call if they can close my case and I said I don't want it closed until I am not refunded and he said he is not sure if I will get full refund because my system is older than a year.its a year and 3 months old and I couldn't use it for around 4 months in total because of the problems and fixes.I told them i wouldn't accept anything less than s full refund but let's see what's gonna happen.Do you have any suggestions for me ?

 

Do not give up on your claim ..

 

Jumhur,

Do stick with your claim, and speak with someone higher if required. However, I cannot stress this part enough, remain firm but cool-headed. There's more than one way to make a strong argument, so it is of vital importance that one maintains a diplomatic tone, even when shifting the responsibility of solving the issue to the other party. The basics of the law are that the item must be performing consistently and properly within a reasonable time frame. Given that this is a £3,700 machine that has barely lasted over a year with an extensive service history of problems in that short period, does mean that you have a decent argument for pressing for a refund.

 

I don't really have any issues with my 18, apart from the 880's being gimped by design. I am still within my first year warranty, could I get a refund in this case on the basis that they have stopped supporting the 18 and the 980m upgrade isn't available?

 

These are some emails we exchanged today.You are right about that though.The one who loses his calm loses the argument.

here are the email URL's so u can read them if you like.

Me to Daniel from Dell support.- https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd...._=1433735096_bd6296b3be0d7bc88d1a15fdf6d1c212

Daniel from Dell support to me: https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd...._=1434044291_a23c977ee0772b7f7ad924723146a5c5

Me to Daniel from Dell support: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd...._=1437856400_c14482d896de306d375fe59fe9578c49

and the last email from Daniel to me, I will just copy the message since its very short - Daniel -I understand You but I truly don't know the answer. Colleague is saying now that it should be full refund. that one that You spoke to him today.

So what do i do from here ?

 

Hmm. If I were you, I would just go ahead with the refund--if it can be agreed upon in full--and return the system as per their request. This way, while you might be without a computer for a short while, you're certain to receive the full cash and you can then proceed as required. At this point, getting back the money, if it's in your reach, should take priority.

On that note: Is it possible for you to complete your closing academic work on a different system? You know, like a cheaper netbook or notebook?

 

I was just thinking about that too,I am studying architecture so i use some demanding 3D programs for my renders,there is an option to work in the university every day but their computers are crap and its not possible to do any rendering there accept only plans on cad and some photoshop.And during the first week of april university will be closed because of the Easter period.They said refund will occur 1 week after they take my laptop and there will be another week to get the new one.If i go for some other custom laptops it will take even more time.

It would be nice if they could refund me full in June so i can get the alienware with 980 8gb and the amp box with it.But thats just a hope