System Exchange Thoughts

Hello forum!

I just found this forum and I am a first time poster. I would like to ask opinions on a system exchange option that I received from Dell/Alienware for my Alienware 18.

Here is my current configuration:

Alienware 18
CPU Intel core I-7-4810MQ up to 3.6 with 4 cores
16 GB memory
80 GB SSD mSATA drive
1 TB SATA hard drive
Duel AMD 295X in crossfire
Blu Ray drive

Here is the system offered in exchange:

Alienware 17R4
CPU Intel core i7-6700HQ up to 3.5 GHz
8 GB Ram
1 TB SATA hard drive
Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB

I was approved a system exchange on December 23 and just got the this system to review almost a month later. They said they would try to up the memory, but they say everything else is compatible with my current system. I wanted to see what others think before I continue working with them.

I sincerely appreciate anyone's comments and thoughts.

 

GPU-wise, the 1060 should be a bit more powerful but MUCH more efficient and thus quieter. CPU-wise, the 6700HQ will be about 10% slower than your current 4810MQ. Otherwise, storage and memory are straight forward to understand.

EDIT: If Dell up the memory to 16GB, I'd take it and buy an SSD.

 

Personally I would tell them to pound sand. They are offering you HALF the memory , no SSD, No OC on your CPU and literally the lowest GPU option available in that model . I won't even begin to touch on the endless supply of problems with the new models, I will let you decide if you really want to go there BUT your giving up socket-able hardware , OC capability ( albeit not much but still OCable ) CPU, cut your memory in half (wtf) , no SSD when your current system has one , lowest GPU possible ( they should be giving you at least a 1070 ) and a smaller overall laptop.

Personally I would take this straight to social media, blast it on Reddit, Twitter and Facebook and follow that up with a BBB complaint. Don't settle for a half ass machine.

What exactly is wrong with your 18? Is it worth telling Alienware to pound sand and just replace it yourself?(the failed part I mean)

 

Thanks for the replies.

My 18 is getting CPU temps over 100c and then slowing down the CPU until it cools off. This last only a few seconds and then it overheats again. They replaced the heat sink and cooling fan twice on site and then the laptop was sent to dell for repair. It still overheats on load and is unusable. That was when they offered a system exchange on Dec 23 and informed they had IT problems until a month later when I received the info about the offered system above.

 

Well, I'd say the 1060 will perform about the same as your 2 GPUs at the moment but draw a lot less power and subsequently probably run quieter as a result. The CPU will not be as powerful but it won't really matter in most games as the limiting factor will likely be the GPU. If you can get them to give you 16GB of RAM then it's a worthwhile upgrade in my book. You can always buy a 40$ 120GB SSD and put it in after the fact.

 

So 1st of all, I think they are close but should offer you a little more. More memory, SSD, and yes a 1070. But let me address the other comments on here about how you could add stuff after the fact. That is unacceptable. This is their product that is defective and their warranty they are supposed to honor. You have a warranty that should mean there should be zero inconvenience or work required on your part other than the fact you currently have a malfunctioning system. It sounds like you just need a new CPU to me. Tell them to replace your damn CPU. The fact that they would rather give you a brand new product of theirs instead of just paying for and replacing your CPU to honor your warranty goes to show what a step down the product is they are offering. Think about that, giving you their new product along with it's problems is financially more beneficial to them than replacing your CPU or fixing whatever else they need to fix on your current system.

I agree with MogRules as well. Blast this everywhere you can and file a complaint. Don't let them get away with screwing you over or giving you anything less than you deserve. They have done it to far too many people already. This damn company is still selling warranty extensions for the 18. A product they no longer carry and a warranty they will not be able to honor. And yet, they are still calling owners with the 18 and trying to get them to extend their warranty. I got a call last month from them trying to get me to extend my warranty. Of course they didn't realize I had another year left but that's a whole other issue. However, when I advised the guy they no longer sell my system he said they will have no problem replacing and fixing any issues with the 18 for a long time. They are dirty. Don't let them get away with it.

 

Good points and I appreciate everyone taking the time to reply. My contact at Alienware is off work until Tuesday, and he said he would have an update on the offered system for me then.

If anyone else has any thoughts, then please share them.

Thanks everyone!

 

Keep us updated.

 

I definitely will keep you all updated. Hopefully I will know more by Wednesday morning.

 

Dude this is a win, I would take the equivalent of a single desktop GTX 980 but with a 125-150W TDP over X-Fire ANYTHING at this point considering how problematic multi-GPU support is for both SLI and X-Fire.

Another poster said the new CPU is 10% slower? If this is the case, who cares, the vast majority of games nowadays are all GPU intensive.

Go for it.

Edit:

Memory is cheap, so are SSD related storage options, the newer unit is 25% lighter (9.74 vs 12.1 lbs) more portable, all for 1" of screen real estate? 17" vs 18" is like what, 5% difference in screen size but a 25% weight difference?

This same unit has a market value of nearly $1800. Youre NOT going to get that for your AW 18.

I would go for it and just consider the cost of an inexpensive M.2 or SSD and 8 more GB of memory the cost for the opportunity to UPGRADE from X-Fire to a 1060, which again, let's remember here, IS AS FAST, YES FULLY AS FAST, AS THE OUTGOING DESKTOP GTX 980.

So lets see, mobile AMD 295x X-Fire vs desktop GTX 980. Going by this, a single M295x is 15% slower than a GTX 680, which itself is half as fast as the GTX 980 which the GTX 1060 is as fast as. So starting here, and extrapolating multi-GPU scaling inefficiency of about 15% we have something that is 15% (X-Fire scaling) + 15% (GPU0) + 15% (GPU1) = 45% slower than a GTX 1060.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-R9-M295X.129043.0.html

To add to all of this there are so many good games that just don't have multi-GPU support, SLI or otherwise, PERIOD.

This is a total blessing in disguise!

Hell I paid $500 to upgrade from 680M SLI to a single 980M, which really isn't even any faster but I just couldn't take the SLI problems anymore!

And you will get a warranty?

And you will have something that will hold greater resell value?

All for the cost of 8GB of RAM ($60?) and a good SSD (500GB Samsung 850 Evo routinely goes on sale for $130 AND THAT USUALLY INCLUDES A NEW AAA GAME WITH IT).

Edit #2:

Going by this, there is a 120Hz G-Sync panel option, try to at least bargain for that on the grounds that your unit, when new, had a higher asking price:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Built-Alienware-17-R4-HID56-FHD-nVIDIA-GTX-1060-/302126349847

If they refuse to budge, ask how much it would be to upgrade to that option. Trust me, you want 120Hz G-Sync.

120Hz G-Sync and a 130W equivalent of a desktop GTX 980 for some X-Fire rubbish that doesn't even work correctly in 50% of games?

This is a total no-brainer.

 

Update to my previous post for clarity as a third edit might be overlooked:

How about that X-Fire scaling!

http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2547-amd-rx-470-crossfire-benchmark-vs-rx-480-and-1070

Can you say rubbish?

70 FPS avg in Metro: LL to 109 FPS avg via 2x same card.

That is horrible. I mean, that's not even scaling of 85%, as I stated that there was 15% inefficiency loss with X-Fire in my previous post. This is nearly 50% scaling: 70+35 = 105

GTA 5 goes from 77 to 96 FPS avg LMFAO.

Yeah this would be one of those games I was talking about.

The Division, 64 FPS single 470 to 71 FPS X-Fire? This isn't a spectacular failure?

And these figures don't account for the X-Fire AND SLI induced stutter, which is still a problem, all they do is show raw frame-rates. Trust me, stuttering at 75 FPS isn't smoother than 50 FPS without the additional card.

Do yourself a favor and have a good read over of my last post and trade that X-Fire nightmare in.

...

"Conclusion: Is CrossFire Worth it for the RX 470?
For positive scaling, we have to look at games like Metro: Last Light, Black Ops, and GTA V – though GTA had the microstutter issue. You'd also see positive scaling with Shadow of Mordor, but we didn't retest that title here.

We reach the same conclusion as previously: Multi-GPU scaling is often mixed in its support. Developers of software and games must support multi-GPU, not just the drivers – though that's got to be there, too. We're seeing about equal negative and positive scaling with CrossFire, and the positives are sometimes small enough that the value proposition loses its argument. In instances of intense microstutter (GTA V) or negative scaling, you'd be disabling the second GPU. We have stated this recently for SLI and CrossFire setups; this is not an exclusive problem to AMD. As it stands today, we do not recommend SLI or CrossFire for most users. If there is a very specific game you're playing heavily that actually sees reasonable benefit – one which is not beaten by just buying a higher-end card, like a 1070, then maybe it's worth it. Otherwise, for a wider spectrum of games, we still recommend a single card configuration as the most reliable and cost effective option.

Production users might be able to argue that the second GPU would assist with Blender or similar OpenCL render workloads, where graphics crunching is sectioned off into independent tiles for GPU rendering. Such a user would be able to occasionally enable CF for gaming, if the game supports, though it'd really just be a bonus and should not be the core reason for a purchase. The power argument also must be looked into if working in a production/business environment, as 1.8x VA draw will impact the power bill if deploying for constant 100% render workloads."

 

Excellent read Vulcan! I really appreciate the detail you put in to your response. It really helps to clarify my position and what I should do. Thanks!

 

After negotiating with Alienware, and being very polite I was able to get a very good system upgrade over what was originally offered. I was able to get the same speed processor and same amount of memory as my original system, a larger SSD, 4K UHD screen (I think), and a GTX 1070!

I am quite satisfied with the system; although, this is week 5 after I was told I would be getting a system exchange. So it has taken awhile to get here, but it is worth it.

Here are the specs, and they say the system will ship within a few days.



Thanks everyone for your input and taking the time to respond and/or read this thread.

 

And your getting rid of a lemon and starting over with a brand new laptop. I wonder if dell will resell your old one lol.

 

HOLY CRAP.

Wow that is amazing, but I have one final suggestion, tell them you wan't the 120Hz G-Sync 1080p display over the 4K one!

TRUST ME.

GTX 1070 can't quite push 4K and youre NOT going to be able to appreciate that resolution on a 17" display.

You will however, really enjoy the fluidity of a 120Hz G-Sync display.

 

I agree with Vulcan78 regarding the 1080p display. That would be the direction I would go. You can always buy a 4k monitor to hook it up to for basic use but for gaming on the 1070, to get the desired framerates 1080p is what you want to be pushing.

 

Guys - if the person wants 4K - let him have it. It's personal preference. Like I said in the RBP thread, to each their own.

 

Congratulations mate, now that is a proper exchange.

 

It took me quite a while to get this configuration so I am not going to upset the issue. Overall I am extremely happy with the configuration of the new system.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts, reads, and replies!

 

Good move not dragging this out. If you feel tempted by 120Hz and/or G-sync, you can always get an external for that. But you'll be able to make that decision at your own leisure while having a working system at hand.

 

Agreed. As the saying goes, don't force your luck or you might run out.

 

Much better on Alienware's part. Hopefully you never have to deal with a replacement again and this one gives you many hours of happy gaming. While I agree 4k isn't ideal for the 1070 you can always turn down the res. As I understand it you might see a slight decrease in quality not running at native res but it isn't so bad that it will drive you nuts. Either way it's nice to see that they at least gave you something better then base line config. The price you would have paid for the Alienware 18 alone should have warranted it.

 

The problem with 4K is, a single 1070 is actually not powerful enough to push it an appreciable frame-rate AND all 4K displays currently in production are limited to 60Hz, so when youre forced to up-sample 1080p to run a game at a decent framerate, say The Witcher 3 with the bells and whistles, you will be limited to 1080p at 60Hz. This is a distinction that deserves bearing out, anyone here who plays any multiplayer game competitively knows full well that 60 FPS is the bare-minimum you want / need to have, ideally you need your FPS between 90-120 FPS, it is THAT much smoother. So if you opt for the 60Hz 4K display, that's it youre screwed, you can run a game at 1080p and probably not have to worry about interpolation (4K is exactly 2x 1920x1080) but youre STUCK with the 60Hz limit.

(TW3, 4K ~30 FPS with MEDIUM settings)

You truly can't appreciate 4K on a 17" screen.

So youre better off opting for 1080p @ 120Hz.

A GTX 1070 is certainly fast, unfortunately it's still not fast enough for 4K.

We won't see single GPU's capable of pushing 4K, and when I say pushing 4K I mean running the more demanding, recent AAA titles at that resolution with the settings turned up at AT LEAST 60 FPS, ideally 90 FPS, until Volta.

 

Thing is - if he pushes them more for a screen swap, his luck might run out and he will could be stuck with the original 1060 offer. And you can always tone down AA - I mean, if my 970M can get 50fps at high in Witcher 3, then I imagine a 1070 at medium in 4K with no AA or HW should do fine.

 

I think I've pushed as much as I can. I would like to have the 1080p screen, but am better off not pushing any more at this point. I'm just glad I got the other components I wanted.

 

Youre absolutely not going to "push too far", they aren't going to say "you know what? Youre getting the 1060". This isn't the bargaining mini-game in Fallout 4. I've dealt with Dell / Alienware about 3 times in regards to bargaining. I had an M18xR1 whose 580's failed and I exchanged the unit for the R2 with 680's and went back and forth probably a total of 10 times with various Dell reps.

Youre already solid on the current build, just call them back and politely ask them if you can have the 1080p screen because you feel that the equipped GPU is inadequate for 4K, as it is.

Them helping you as they are doing is positive PR as they rightly know that their consumer base is highly interconnected and well informed. They want you to take to the forums and talk about your positive experience as it is good for business. Trust me, you run no risk whatsoever of over-stepping some imaginary bargaining boundary with them reneging and giving you something less than what they've already promised you. As a matter of fact, the 1080 120Hz display may actually be less expensive, it may be a DOWNGRADE as viewed from their perspective, and if it isn't, I would ask how much it would be to pay for that option and I would pay that if further bargaining fails, which I can GUARANTEE will not.

If you get stuck with that 60Hz 4K display it's going to be the akin of getting the Dodge Viper engine in a Dodge Ram, you will have the muscle that is capable of so much more but youre going to be bogged down by 5500 lbs. of 4K display and youre going to positively regret not taking my advice.

Dell and other manufacturers need to stop offering these 4K displays as default unless, AND EVEN THEN, the unit is equipped with GTX 1080 SLI.

Edit:

Yup, the 4K display is $325 MORE than the 120Hz 1080p display, so youre asking for a "downgrade" which I GUARANTEE you they will oblige:

http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/alienware-17-laptop/dkcwkblg44s

The only confusion I have is that under the display section of features it doesn't specifically state that the 1080p display on offer is G-Sync:

" The 17" QHD 120Hz display is designed to deliver the smoothest gaming experience with a 4-milisecond response time, wide viewing angles and 400 nits of brightness. The UHD panel offers a 100% color gamut for an incredible, saturated range of reds, greens and blues (compared to the 72% offered by QHD and FHD).

NVIDIA® G-Sync technology, available on select models, delivers the smoothest, fastest experience ever thanks to synchronized display refresh rates to the GPU in your GeForce® GTX-powered PC, eliminating screen tearing and minimizing display stutter and input lag."

 

I updated my the last portion of my comment above, in case youre getting comment updates via Tapatalk.

Edit:

It's not really worth getting bent out of shape over, but it looks like they are offering you one of the older models with a 6820k as the one pictured there in the link in my previous post is sporting a 7700HQ. Not sure about the HQ but the 7700K is capable of hitting 5.0GHz with safe voltage, but all in all it isn't that much faster in the grand scheme of things, especially considering the vast majority of games nowadays aren't CPU that CPU intensive. If you have a quad-core with 3.5GHz and HT youre still in good stead, and that's basically nearly everything from i7 2600 forward.

Edit 2:

You might be able to be sneaky and offer to "downgrade" to the 1080p display in exchange for an upgrade to the 7700HQ.

But yeah, you need clarification on whether or not the 1080p display on offer includes the G-Sync module or not. Their description is pretty vague.

 

You're completely right - they already offered you a fantastic replacement, take it! You can always swap out the display if you so desire later.

 

Update?

 

I took the last system that was negotiated. I also got a USB optical drive since the new Alienware laptops don't have them. Then got a warranty extension as compensation for it taking them 5 weeks from the time I was approved for a system exchange to getting the first system offered.

 

Do you have it in your possession yet? What are your thoughts?

I'm actually kinda looking forward to picking up a laptop with a GTX 1070, half decent CPU and 120Hz G-Sync monitor used for like $1k or so in the next year or two. That would be a really nice upgrade over the 60Hz, non G-Sync, 980M R2 I currently have. I would basically see a doubling of FPS and have the refresh rate to appreciate it.

980M is the end of the upgrade line for M18x R2 but to be honest it will still push 1080p at 60 FPS with only a few compromises.

 

Ok, I have the laptop and a blu ray burner they sent me. On stock speeds and at 1080p, here are some benchmarks, uniquine heaven 3320, futuremark fire strike 12844.

Display has brilliant colors and bright. Much better than the 18 display I had.

Very satisfied!