m18x and windows aero

Yes to the first, sadly no to the 2nd.

 

The thing worth noting is that I got no crashes so far in actual DirectX applications I only get it after I have exited from the application. But when it comes to folding@home it can happen right before you.

 

Well, that really blows.

Running a number of programs will cause Aero to stop working right before your very eyes. Sometime this is by design, such as when running remote desktop sharing apps. Thanks for letting us know this also causes it. If you stop OSD from loading with Windows does this still occur for you?

 

Like I've said before...OSD causes csrss.exe to restart. This process handles the display driver.

What is csrss.exe?

The Microsoft Client Server Runtime Server subsystem utilizes the process csrss.exe for managing the majority of the graphical instruction sets under the Microsoft Windows operating system. As such Csrss.exe provides the critical functions of the operating system, and its termination can result in the Blue Screen of Death being displayedCsrss.exe controls threading and Win32 console window features. Threading is where the application splits itself into multiple simultaneous running tasks. Threads supported by csrss.exe are different from processes in that threads are commonly contained within the process, with various threads sharing resources within the same process. The Win32 console is the plain text window in the Windows API system* (programs can use the console without the need for image display).In mobile devices such as notebooks and laptops, the process csrss.exe is closely dependent on power management schemes implemented by the system as defined under the Control Panel option.This process should be treated as suspicious if there are two instances running.

*The functionality provided by the Windows API can be grouped into eight categories:[2]
Base Services[3] Provide access to the fundamental resources available to a Windows system. Included are things like file systems, devices, processes and threads, and error handling. These functions reside in kernel.exe, krnl286.exe or krnl386.exe files on 16-bit Windows, and kernel32.dll on 32-bit Windows. Advanced Services Provide access to functionality additional to the kernel. Included are things like the Windows registry, shutdown/restart the system (or abort), start/stop/create a Windows service, manage user accounts. These functions reside in advapi32.dll on 32-bit Windows. Graphics Device Interface[4] Provides functionality for outputting graphical content to monitors, printers and other output devices. It resides in gdi.exe on 16-bit Windows, and gdi32.dll on 32-bit Windows in user-mode. Kernel-mode GDI support is provided by win32k.sys which communicates directly with the graphics driver.[5] User Interface Provides the functionality to create and manage screen windows and most basic controls, such as buttons and scrollbars, receive mouse and keyboard input, and other functionality associated with the GUI part of Windows. This functional unit resides in user.exe on 16-bit Windows, and user32.dll on 32-bit Windows. Since Windows XP versions, the basic controls reside in comctl32.dll, together with the common controls (Common Control Library). Common Dialog Box Library[7] Provides applications the standard dialog boxes for opening and saving files, choosing color and font, etc. The library resides in a file called commdlg.dll on 16-bit Windows, and comdlg32.dll on 32-bit Windows. It is grouped under the User Interface category of the API. Common Control Library Gives applications access to some advanced controls provided by the operating system. These include things like status bars, progress bars, toolbars and tabs. The library resides in a DLL file called commctrl.dll on 16-bit Windows, and comctl32.dll on 32-bit Windows. It is grouped under the User Interface category of the API. Windows Shell[9][10] Component of the Windows API allows applications to access the functionality provided by the operating system shell, as well as change and enhance it. The component resides in shell.dll on 16-bit Windows, and shell32.dll on 32-bit Windows. The Shell Lightweight Utility Functions are in shlwapi.dll. It is grouped under the User Interface category of the API. Network Services[11] Give access to the various networking capabilities of the operating system. Its sub-components include NetBIOS, Winsock, NetDDE, RPC and many others.


The 6970M CF configuration is affected most by the Alienware OSD Bug.

 

Tell me about it. It's really the only thing screwing up my whole 3D setup. I have a Panasonic TC-L32DT30. IPS and 240hz awesomeness.

 

That's not good, because if I remember correctly Aero is required for 3D video to function and with Aero turned off only 2D video is possible. So, it would be more than an annoyance if that is accurate.

 

Actually, for some reason the 3D effects stay on even though transparency/Aero Peek is off. Likewise if I'm watching a 3D Blu-Ray or 3D game.

 

Well, thank goodness the 3D keeps on working even if Aero does not. I had read somewhere that it would not, so I'm glad what I read turned out to be inaccurate for your sake. If Aero failing caused the 3D to also fail that would be extremely disappointing at the very least.

 

Hi Mr. Fox, congratulations on the new avatar... (a far way oot but...) it look like my old friend ( but mine was totally bright silver... and because of that they chase them and sell their furs... grrrrrrrr! )

 

Thanks, buddy. I remember the story you shared with me about your old furry friend. It was touching.

There have been a few times that someone wanted a piece of my hide as well, but those folks were not fur traders.

I laughed uncontrollably for a few minutes while Photoshopping that avatar. Such a silly look... It took me a while to come up with a caption, but that's the best I could come up with for something to match the gaping mouth.

 

Checking this out, will report in a few days.

 

My escalation and feedback is getting some internal Dell attention. Hopefully we will hear something soon on the status of a fix.

 

I have a question for you folks, can this aero/osd problem cause crashes in DX11 apps or any DX app? I already have OSD disabled. My BCLK is at 102

I've had many crashes on Crysis 2, but nothing on Crysis Warhead though. If I play long enough it will crash for sure. And it doesn't crash to the desktop it just crashes and reboots.

It has happened on stock clocks as well. My max temps are always below 83C on the main card and below 74C on the slave card.

The strange thing is it takes a while before it crashes, maybe 45-60mins. But the tamps are always monitored on my extended screen so I can rule out overheating. I put a fresh layer of IC7 when I first got the machine. I know Crysis 2 is just a rubbish build with a lot of bugs (fanboys dont be hurt ) But so many crashes cant be the game all the time especially when it causes my system to reboot on its own.

Anyone else facing these issues?

I will try playing Crysis and Metro 2033 for longer to check if they cause similar reboots.

 

When I enable SLI on GTX460M machine, my Aero breaks. What gives?

 

mharidas - this could be a sign your 6970M's are going south. They have worse problems with OSD crashing Aero than the 6990 or 580 cards do. Mine are constantly crashing in-game and throwing a random BSOD... even while the system is idle sometimes.

Your reboot is possibly a BSOD that you are not seeing because you need to uncheck Automatically Restart in System Properties > Advanced > Startup and Recovery. You can use WhoCrashed to look at any dump files your system may be accumulating.

If this is rare for you, it could be just a driver problem. You can try doing a clean driver installation with Catalyst 11.8 or Dell's latest drivers.

On my dying 6970M CFX the freezes and BSOD are daily and in almost any game or benchmark. Most of the time I cannot complete a benchmark run in 3DMark06, 11, Vantage or Furmark. Crysis, Left4Dead 2, Modern Warfare 2, Fallout New Vegas, AVP, Bulletstorm, Call of Juarez and Call of Juarez Bound in Blood all give me nothing but fits with freezing and BSOD.

I'm running stock clock speeds and the temps are cool. On my cards it seems the problem is far worse when DX10 or DX11 is in play. I can sometimes game or benchmark on DX9 for a while without issues.

 

Use MSCONFIG and uncheck OSD (On Screen Display) on the Startup tab, then reboot. This will most likely solve your problem with Aero. OSD has a known issue with breaking Aero.

Go back through this thread to about 8/23 or 8/25 and read from there forward and you'll see the workarounds available to tide you over until Compal releases a new version of OSD for Alienware.

 

May have a possible permanent solution for the Aero problem - had an issue with a black line appearing on my left side of the screen or tearing which was posted on this forum:
"http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m18x/608834-tearing-along-left-side-screen.html" and Dell logged in remotely to install a bios upgrade on my 6970 gpu yesterday and up till now the tearing and AERO problem is gone - have done stress testing for the whole day yesterday, but will do more tests to confirm for sure that aero was fixed on my pc.

 

Thanks! I'm just glad to see it's not only me and that you had the same issue with it saying its closing an invisible application prior to rebooting.

I'll wait patiently for the official fix.

 

Could you dump the BIOS using sapphire trixx please? I could try flashing it on mine to see if changes some stability issues.

Much appreciated!

 

Hi Mharidas - not an expert on bios dumping - is there any risk to my pc doing this ?

 

No risk, it just reads the BIOS EPROM and makes a copy of it onto your desktop or where ever you wish to dump it.

This is the program you will need Link

Once installed open the program you will see all the info on your GPUs. Below the info table you will see the tabs Save BIOS and Save report. Click Save BIOS, its going to ask you where would you like to save the Blackcom.bin file, choose your desktop for ease of access.

Done.

You can then zip the file and attach it to your post and post it in here.

Thank You!

 

Ok will do as soon as I get back home tonight - in about 8 hours.

Will attach and upload to this post when done

 

No problem! Thank you for your help it might lead to some improvement if the BIOS proves to be newer than the one I have now.

 

Yes then you guys can also verify that Dell did really what they claimed to have done to resolve my issue - should already be able to see difference in size or crc if the bios was changed.

 

Yes RBE will help plus HEX editor.

 

Ok have uploaded the file - please test and give feedback

 

Thanks, notebear. Looks like the file size is identical as my vBIOS.

The Aero problem is caused by OSD, but it will be interesting to see if this vBIOS has some other enhancement to correct other issues with the 6970.

 

I certainly had the aero issue by just playing starcraft 2 before, but have tested today again with both sc2, counter strike, crysis and even doing alt-tab ingame to desktop and back and still stable so far.

 

OK. Here is my original vBIOS information...

BIOS date/time: 12/14/10, 17:33:
BIOS version string: 113-C29604-101
AtomBios version: ATOMBIOSBK-ATI VER013.010.000.009.039462
​

Here is the file from notebear...

BIOS date/time: 12/13/10,14:49:
BIOS version string: 113-C29604-101
AtomBios version: ATOMBIOSBK-ATI VER013.010.000.009.039364​

It appears to be an older version.

 

Is that good or bad ?

 

Mr. Fox, could you post here your vBios? mine is already identical to the notebear's one and is older than yours

thanks

 

Ok that is a relieve - Carillo has an older version as well.

Carillo, do you have the aero issue as well ?

 

Here you go...

The Blackcomb0.bin is GPU0 (primary) vBIOS and Blackcomb1.bin is GPU1 (secondary) vBIOS.

 

Until Compal and Alienware release a new version of OSD, everyone has the bug that crashes Aero. (I am calling it the "OSD bug" because the fault is not with Aero.) The OSD bug screws up Aero more so on systems equipped with 6970M CFX than it appears to on systems equipped with 6990M CFX or NVIDIA 580M SLi.

 

yeah... every 4-5 reboots the aero crashes... however, no problem during games... it's an OSD related problem...

thank you!

 

As a stop-gap measure while we are waiting for a fixed version of OSD, if both of you will run MSCONFIG, go to the startup tab, uncheck On Screen Display (OSD) and reboot, your troubles with Aero will stop manifesting because OSD will not be running in the background.

Create a shortcut to "C:\Program Files (x86)\Alienware On-Screen Display\AlienwareOn-ScreenDisplay.exe" and you can manually launch OSD if you need to use any proprietary features such as switching to binary graphics mode.

 

Ok then what test can be done to crashtest my aero, or what else could Dell have changed remotely what we are not aware of ?

 

To force an Aero crash, run 3DMark06 or Vantage, or WEI and that will cause Aero to stop working by design. When OSD is causing Aero to flake out, it will not recover automatically when the benchmark is finished. You system will remain stay stuck in Windows 7 Basic theme unless you logoff/logon or reboot.

From what we can tell OSD crashes the Microsoft Client Server Runtime Server Subsystem process (csrss.exe) and that causes Aero to go on the fritz.

 

Will test as soon as I'm back home (1.5hours) and let you know - they might have updated the OSD program files as well.

 

Wouldn't that be nice? If they have, none of us know about it and it has not been posted for download on support.dell.com as of yet.

 

Well something is up, either my OSD is not running since the upgrade (that would be a shame), but as far as I know when I pulled out my power from the laptop it showed on battery and power (in the middle of the screen) when it was reinserted - that is part of OSD right ?

 

If you are talking about in the middle of your screen, yes. If OSD is running in the background, that will show on-screen. (Thus the name "On Screen Display.") If OSD is not running, one thing you will notice is that the nice looking translucent on-screen visuals will not occur. However, the icon on your system tray will still reflect whether you are on AC or DC power.

Another thing you will notice different when OSD is not running in the background is that you will not be prompted for graphics switching when you change from AC to DC or vice versa. I really like not being prompted for that. I hope when we get an updated version of OSD that they turn that off. I don't need my computer to suggest anything and find that irksome. It's just an unnecessary mouse click that I'd prefer go away forever.

 

Then it was running for sure - forgot to mention the switch to igp notification was there as well.

 

OK. Turn it off and you'll be all set for no Aero troubles until we get an update. If you don't mind Aero crashing, just leave it running.

 

I'm not quite following you

So far have no issues with Aero, but can try the WEI and 3dmark in about an hour when back home and let you know if it is still stable.

 

I must have misinterpreted your previous post...

If you were having Aero problems before they flashed your vBIOS, I think it's just a matter of time before it resurfaces. Unless, of course, the newer vBIOS is conflicting with OSD. That would be interesting, but it still would not explain why NVIDIA-based M18x owners are experiencing it. So, I doubt the vBIOS did anything to fix the OSD bug. But it's a wonderful thing if it cured your tearing problem.

If I am wrong and Aero continues to work properly for the next week or more, you'll be one of the fortunate minority. It takes usually 4 or 5 days for the Aero problems to start with a clean OS install. Alienware, Compal and Microsoft have already confirmed that the current version of OSD is the source of Aero crashing on the M18x and M17x R3.

If the problem does resurface on your system as expected, at least you will know what steps to take to stop it from happening.

 

Ok no worries

Will test and let you know

 

The WEI crashed the OSD not recovering after it has finshed

Sorry to get everybody excited - I was overly impressed by the "Dell fix" - was just a downgrade to older and in my case stabler bios.

 

Thank you for the file but as it appears we both have the same version on our cards.

1+ rep for your efforts in any case!

I'll give Mr. Fox's version a shot.

 

Could you please share with us that/those confirmation(s)? URL(s) perhaps?

/Leigh