m18x and windows aero

Now that would be an interesting point.....if this is only AMD related......

 

According to the level 2 I spoke to it is.

 

Ok, so other than Jt-3 (post 47) everyone here who has a signature has a AMD card???? Coincidence?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m18x/588142-m18x-windows-aero-5.html#post7640063

 

I still can't reproduce the problem after rolling back to Dell stock drivers.

 

I saw the issue at boot a couple of hours ago

 

Hmm, skygunner, maybe its something different on your pc that Aikimox does not have?

Could it be the different ram? Not posting correctly maybe? There's GOT to be something different between your two computers. It could even be some software you have? Maybe the processor's throwing something cause its faster? Is it overclocked? Could even be ssd related? Have you done a fresh install lately? This could almost be anything causing it???? Just some ideas for you to toss around.

 

It's CCC/BIOS/OSD. I've spoken to a level 2 & supervisor about it. They are aware of the issue. I know that when I randomly encounter this problem it's at the time the CCC settings loads. Maybe it is SSD related at boot. It takes 11 seconds for me to get to the desktop with everything loaded. At first I went days w/o seeing this error. I've tried other ram, same problem.

To be honest I'm tired of troubleshooting AW laptops. At this point all I want to do is just sit down and actually enjoy it w/o all the hoopla.
Today AW offered me a refund of 2300.00USD for my M18x which is alot more than I payed for my config. What's so annoying is that my unit is PERFECT cosmetically, internal & physically. All of this BS is caused by software issues.

 

Dunno... We have the same BIOS and OSD. I reverted to the stock version of CCC and never updated CAP. Other than that my RAM is 1866MHz but the aero bug disappeared after the CCC rollback.

 

I tried 11.6CCC w/o cap and then uninstalled>CCleaner>driver sweeper>reinstalled CCC.

I'm starting to notice it happening at boot when I go from battery>to shut off> to power on w/AC.

 

So, did your Alienware rep have an explanation why we were not seeing this on the R2? Why not try a driver-only installation without CCC by reverting to standard VGA drivers, then browsing to the driver folder and manually installing AMD drivers within Device Manager? See if the problem goes away when CCC is gone.

I'm still leaning toward it being caused by the switchable graphics. CCC is not designed to work in an ad hoc environment with an Intel IGP, but it's still resident and trying to do its job even when you are running the Intel IGP.

If my theory is correct, it could explain why HP Envy 15 owners are experiencing a similar problem.

 

They never can tell you why anything happends the way it does. Instead they leave that for the engineering dept. The problem with that is it is next to impossible to speak with a person for the engineering dept. I really hope you get your system soon so that you can get more hands on with this problem. I'm really starting to get burned out by these ongoing problems from model to model. I'm working on a work around to this problem...it's just going to take some serious time, patientence & alot of phone calls/disconnects on my behalf.............

 

Just a thought but as this problem seems to be upon booting, maybe we could try disabling CCC at startup via msconfig and see if it still happens?....CCC is still available via right click on desktop should you need to open it.

 

maybe...at this point I want my flagship m18x working as it should w/o disabling this or that. I might take a week off dealing with Dell/AW. Yesterday I thought I could keep my time with them to a minimum....until I received a collection notice for not returning my R2 that I returned over a week ago. That alone was a 1 and a half hour call. I'm ready for the Dell engineering dept. to do some troubleshooting.

 

Funny you should say that but I had an email from 'em about my very 1st R2....asking me to contact them to arrange a collection.....that R2 went back 12 months ago...

 

lol....no wondering nothing ever gets done. There's no inter department communication. Seeing as how they ditched the R1/R2 problems they'll probably not fix the M18x/R3 problems. This may be my last AW laptop after I max this out with the best gpu's!!

 

I am excited about diving in to help solve this annoyance. I emailed my rep to find out what the hold up is on my M18x. So, all I can do at this point is watch and offer anecdotal comments.

I am not convinced this is an Alienware problem, per se. However, I agree that inter-departmental communication is an area of opportunity for this company. (They're not alone in that. This seems to be an issue at most large corporations.)

Enabling and disabling things is a simple fact of life with computers. I have been building and repairing them for 25 years. The more elaborate the build, the more likely that a tweak or two is going to be required to make the system behave properly. If unchecking a box or something simple produces the desired outcome, that should not be a problem for an Alienware fan. The only systems that don't often require (or benefit from) tweaking are belly-button MacIncrap systems that are produced using an über-proprietary cookie cutter approach.

Since there seems to possibly be a connection with CCC, I think steviejones' recommendation to stop CCC from running at startup is a good thing to try. There is no real reason for CCC (or most other programs) to run at startup. That also seems like a logical thing to do. Not only do power users normally disable all unnecessary startup programs as a matter of course, but think about how likely it would be to have an issue with CCC running in the background on a system that is equipped with an Intel HD 3000 IGP... especially so when the AMD GPUs are turned off. We do not know to what level one graphics subsystem is truly disabled with switchable graphics. Both are physically present and connected at all times, so we cannot assume that being switched to "off" is going to make the hardware absolutely invisible at the lowest level.

I also think that trying a driver-only installation (sans CCC) might be a good thing to test if disabling CCC at startup is not the ticket to resolution. Once it is figured out what stops aero from working, you can backtrack to identify where the crack in the armor is. At this point we know it affects other systems not made by Alienware, so that knowledge may also prove to be helpful in looking for the solution.

 

ok, this thread has been converted into a pool. I wanted to get an idea of how many people with nvidia and amd GPUs were suffering form this issue.

please vote if you have a m18x
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m18x/588142-m18x-windows-aero.html

 

Voting is a brilliant idea, so far looks to be only AMD systems. Strange...

 

I believe the problem its from 2nd generation of cpu , due to hd3000 igpu still running when the system boot-up , its kinda same like m14x's nvidia optimus gpu problems, so its not related to amd or nvidia.

 

I'll have to wait until mine arrives, but I will vote once I get the opportunity to find out if my M18x has the problem.

This will be valuable to the extent that we can determine whether the same problem exists with an NVIDIA GPU. The number of M18x sold with AMD might be substantially different, so the count will not be meaningful as far as diagnostics are concerned. (It may be useful statistically as a means of identifying the frequency of the issue for M18x owners that find this thread and vote.)

I've never been good at predictions, but my gut is telling me there's BIOS level hardware conflict between the integrated Intel and discreet AMD video subsystems. Intel's IGP is the new kid on the block, so NVIDIA and AMD have not learned to play nice with the new kid yet. We'll have to wait and see. If it's a hardware issue rather than software related, my guess is that it's the second generation Intel IGP that is the culprit.

Question: Does the NVIDIA SLi equipped M18x also utilize the Intel HD 3000 IGP?

EDIT: iPhantomhive - just saw your post above mine. It looks like we are guessing the same thing.

 

Its come with Intel HD 3000 , as long the cpu comes with i7 new generation

 

That is a good idea, maybe it is because of the integrated GPU that causes some issues with the coding and programming of the drivers/Windows? But I don't think I have heard nVidia guys say anything besides Optimus issues.

 

Going back to one of my original questions, is there an option within the BIOS to physically disable the Intel IGP completely? I know you can do it in Windows with the FN key, but I'm curious if the IGP can be turned off completely within the CPU at the BIOS level whether the Aero problems go away running exclusively on the discreet AMD CFX system. I don't think anyone has answered that other than to point to the FN key functionality within Windows.

I ask only because if this turns out to be an Intel bug, I am OK with never using the HD 3000 IGP except when I am sitting in airports and on airplanes without access to an electric outlet. I don't need Aero functionality for the limited number of scenarios that I would use the IGP to save on battery power. When battery power is most important, Aero actually uses more juice and that somewhat defeats the purpose of having a reduced power mode. It's when I am using the AMD CFX that I will care about Aero producing the eye candy for me.

 

Not in our current BIOS. There is nothing you could change to allow one or the other precedence. Remember my issue with the 6970M? I wanted to setup the IGP to only work, but yet it would not work when I had the 6970M installed.

Oddly enough, yesterday right before I shipped it off, I installed the 6970M and the computer worked fine, just did not say the 6970M was installed. *shrugs*

 

Well, I hope they provide an option in the next BIOS release to physically disable the IGP part of the GPU. (Assuming, of course, that Intel's design actually allows for it to be disabled. I think I remember reading somewhere that it is possible.)

 

It should allow the choice of disabling either as well as choosing which one you want to boot off of. If we can switch in Windows, why not in BIOS?

 

Why are you saying you can switch in windows? Is this how it works?

Switch in windows then reboot?
I was always thinking it was switch in bios before bootup no?
Thx

 

Yes , Switch in windows then reboot , there is no option in bios for switching gpu.

My system has like 10sec boot up speed , I don't think the aero bug is bugging me , as long I reboot once, the aero will just gone. I don't think 10sec will waste the time.

I might try , disable icpu completely with at "device manager". but im sure if disabled & switch to igpu it will show vga graphic driver and the desktop resolution will back to 800 x 600. just like safemode. Then we must always use the 6970 xfire when boot up to fix aero problems.

 

Starting the poll was an excellent idea. Thanks for doing so.

I have a suggestion that may potentially make the poll data more useful. Instead of three questions, make it four so we can see how many of the folks that would answer the third question "i have a m18x, but don't have this issue" have an AMD versus NVIDIA GPU system. If the problem exists with both AMD and NVIDIA GPU's, then we will have some evidence that the problem is Intel's bad, not AMD or NVIDIA. Heck, it may even turn out to be another Sandy Bridge issue. Thus is the life of an "early adopter" when it comes to technology. Being on the cutting edge can sometimes draw blood.

Let's suppose that through polling NBR members we discover this problem to only exist when the AMD GPU modules are paired with the HD 3000 IGP, and the issue is not present with NVIDIA modules. That data could be useful for M18x owners to make a case to Alienware for replacing their AMD GPU modules with NVIDIA modules that function well with graphics switching. It may also be potentially motivational (and probably less expensive) for Alienware to produce a solution for their customers that prefer to keep their AMD CFX system. Taking that a step further, if the problem falls on AMD's shoulders (considering that, for example, the HP Envy has the same problem), the poll information could prove to be very useful for an even broader consumer base. (After all, NVIDIA just wrapped up a big class action for producing defective products. Maybe it's AMD's turn now. Hopefully not, but who knows what we can find out by asking the right questions.)

See suggestion below:

Does your M18x have issues with aero?

• I have issues with aero and have an AMD gpu
• I have issues with aero and have an NVIDIA gpu
• I do not have issues with aero and have an AMD gpu
• I do not have issues with aero and have an NVIDIA gpu

​

We do not have the ability to edit the poll, as I have tried to on threads I have created. But, I would bet that a moderator can. If you agree with my suggestion, I would recommend sending a PM to BatBoy to request that he can either update the poll, or delete and recreate it with four questions as noted.

 

Fox , can I steal your m18x picture?

 

No need to steal. I'll give it to you. You can download it here: LINK

I Photoshop'd it myself.

 

No, not in BIOS. Why do you guys say reboot after switching? I had the AMD and I did it in Windows and never had to reboot. Maybe I was doing it wrong? LOL

 

On these systems, to change to the iGPU, when you press Fn & F7, you will be greeted with a message that asks you to reboot to switch from the discrete cards to the iGPU.

There is no other way to switch between the two. It works vice versa too....if you are in iGPU mode and want to switch back to your discrete cards (AMD) you will need to Fn & F7 again, accept and reboot.

AFAIK, there is no other way to switch without a reboot. Maybe you didnt switch

 

TraptPatriot - maybe the fact that you were not prompted to reboot for graphic switching is an early (but unrecognized) symptom of an issue with your now dead AMD GPU.

 

I guess he confused with amd/nvidia optimizing option.

 

Quick question, do you own a M18x? Nothing is in the signature indicating that you do. Perhaps its different on other laptops?

 

The M17x R3 will switch inside Windows w/o a reboot. The M18 will not. Maybe he is referring to an M17x R3???

 

Yes, he sure is. TraptPatriot had an R3 that was sent back to Alienware. He pulled the 6970 module out and was running it off the IGP because the module failed.

So, you can switch within Windows on the R3, but not the M18x? Interesting, to say the least. I wonder why that is, and whether the reason for the difference in functionality is related to the problems with aero.

 

Lol

We kinda like helping dell to solve the problems

I guess we need to have some nvidia owners receive their machine.

 

Has to do with XFire I bet. Too many issues with the R2 so they didn't wanna have the same with the M18. But if I remember correctly, even the R2 had to reboot when switching. I have had 2 R3's and they for sure switch inside Windows. It is freaking nice too. Makes me wanna keep the R3 for trips and such.

 

When I ran the machine as delivered from Dell, I ran into the Aero issue (seemed to kind of go away after copious Microsoft updates)

However, last night I set up RAID 0 and started from scratch (No alienrespawn) and installed all drivers from the included discs (normally I would grab all on-line ones but I have limited internet at the moment)

Since the clean install and using the 11.5 AMD drivers, I have had no issues with aero switching off.

The only other thing I haven't done as yet is install drivers for the on-board graphics chip, but that's because I'm lazy and have to reboot for it to be detected from what I can tell.

Once I get home, I will install the drivers, and test, then update my AMD drivers and test too, then I will install the Alienware command centre software (or whatever the laptop version is called) and see if I can get aero to break again.

 

That's a nice research... we all hope you find the one son of a b**ch!

 

The aero issue could be related to CFX on the M18x. There's a bazillion "maybe this" scenarios being batted around right now, and I am fairly confident we will get it sorted. I wonder if someone with an M18x would be willing to yank one of the GPU modules out for a month or so to see if the aero problem goes away? I know of at least one person posting on this thread that has more than one M18x at their house (hint, hint, skygunner ).

To the best of my knowledge, there's no such thing as graphics switching on the R2. There is no IGP to switch to, at least not with the AMD 5870 CFX. I don't know anything about the R2's with NVIDIA SLi, but I do not recall ever seeing or hearing about that as being a feature available on any R2. Stealth Mode seems to do nothing on my system other than create a pop-up and a Windows sound event that has no effect on anything.

Being able to switch graphics is a very nice feature, whether within Windows or by rebooting. To me it's one of those "extremely nice to have" features that I am excited about with the M18x, but can easily live without if I have to. (If push comes to shove, I can always pick up a used netbook if battery life ever becomes critical to me.) I travel extensively for work, but at the end of the day I'd still pick performance over battery life. And, I don't mind lugging this heavy beast with me every where I go. In fact, I actually love how big and heavy it is.

 

If running the IGP without Intel drivers fixes the aero problem, I'll be one of the first to uninstall the HD 3000 drivers and just use standard VGA drivers on the IGP when I need more battery life. There's no reason to use the IGP except for battery life and I won't be gaming on the HD 3000. And, I am optimistic if the HD 3000 drivers are the root cause, that a driver release from Intel will probably cure it some time down the road.

GOOD FIND, Hivetyrant! Thank you for reporting what you found. +1 Rep! Let's hope it's more than a coincidence.

 

Oh yaaaaa, I agree, what's the big deal?

+1 rep

 

I meant the R1. *Facepalm*!!!! Stupid!!!

 

Hey, everyone makes mistakes. There's a first time for everything, right?

 

The problem is still there, wether you install the HD 3000 drivers or not.

 

skygunner - do you mean that aero still does not behave properly without the HD 3000 drivers installed; or, by not installing the drivers for the HD 3000 it is only concealing the underlying problem?

Not sure which way to interpret your observations. If the latter is the point you are making, I would agree. At the same time, having a temporary workaround is beneficial.

 

The problem is there regardless of if you install it or don't install it. I tried both. Before & after.