The Official Area-51 m15x Owners Lounge II

Wow that is really fast! But i'm disappointed with peoples' comments there... Like :

Jeff Stoelker @ Mar 12th 2008 8:45AM

alienware sucks... gg n00bs for havin one


Anyway, atleast it got some attention

 

Well guys, I ran the tests and the GPU got up to 95 C. After talking to tech support again they are sending me a new heat sink. They believe that this will fix the problem. We wil see!
I did ask them if this does not work, what was going to be the next step and they replyed that I was going to have to send it back to Depot. If I get a no go after this next fix, I bilieve that I will be trying to get a refund sad to say!

 

Alright, I made a call to Alienware this morning and I have some good news.

Alienware has a lot of engineers working on this issue as we speak and they are actively reading these forums. They said they are in the process of determining the cause of the issue; they have replicated the overheating on a few units. The contact I talked to said most systems do not have the overheating problem but some do.

In the mean time, I am going to continue testing the review m15x I have and actively look for fixes. I may be replacing the thermal paste on the GPU, I have to check how much I have left (I'm back at my desk now, this weekend I wasn't so that was why I didn't do it earlier).

Basically, as soon as I have a fix you guys will.

My personal theory is the thermal paste is at fault, but I have yet to prove anything. At this point nobody knows what is actually causing the issue.

 

That is just great news. But why do alienware claim to someone on the forum yesterday i think, (correct me if im wrong) that they only have one other customer in their system who have been complaining about the heat issue? Im glad they have been able to replicate the problem so there will be a solotion in the near future, but i dont like them lying to the customers. Of course this is only what i have heard and i have no proof of it. Why are a reviewer more important than a real customer? Or say 10 customers? Well. I will stop all critisism of Alienware from this point on beacuse i just want the system to work flawlessly. Isn't that what we are all aiming for?
I just hope they can fix this without affecting fan speeds (i haven't heard the fans but i like a quiet system) Good job to all who has spend alot of time(!) on helping finding a solution.

 

I don't think the heat is the main problem .!!!
my MBP reach 80-90. while i only have 8600.
at 83 fan kicks to 6000rpm until it go to 66.

The main problem that AW downclock at 85 and fan don't kick in at full.

so if we can make the fan kick at full at 82 then we will not get the downclock. seems the bois driver need update.

Chaz. i already ordered the AS5, it will take a week to arrive, so i will look forward on your test in changing the paste, since i will change it too.

Unless someone buy it from me.:confused2:

yes it's on action site in my country, if found someone want to buy it i will sell it. even if i lose 15% on it. better than allow AW get them.

 

The issue should have been found pre-sales. Hopefully they can make a fix that will work and let the system perform at 100%. Thanks for the help Chaz.

 

Alienware-Steve didn't say how many customers experienced the issue.

The fans are relatively quiet and not annoying at all on the m15x (much quieter than the Sager NP5793) so even if they do need to increase a bit I doubt it will be a problem.

I'm working on the NotebookReview.com review, I am holding off at the moment for a GPU overheating fix.

 

Excellent work Chaz. They've acknowledged it which is a good step, not every company does. See http://htcclassaction.org/ as an example.

Glad to hear they're working on a fix too. I'll stick with my M15x purchase for now. As far as I see it, **** happens, especially in something as daring as the M15x, for me it's how they deal with it that counts. In an ideal world they could have acknowledged it sooner, but is by far not the worst handling of a bad situation I've seen. Despite how it's been blown up.

 

Imo it's a good thing it blew up. If it wasn't escalated to this level who knows what would have happened or if a fix would have ever come out.

 

That is good Chaz, I should be able to get some more in depth answers today as well.

 

I have a question regarding the soundcard, when you plug the headphones, do you hear a strong background static sound?

It's really important for me as I am a music enthusiast.

 

Well that's a scenario only biased opinion seems to want to hazard a guess at. So it's pointless going there.

And kicking up a fuss doesn't always work. As I said, check that HTC website, this made FAR bigger news than the M15x Engaget entry. It even has a bounty in the thousands of dollars to find a solution.
So it's easy to say perhaps Alienware wouldn't have done anything if it didn't blow up as it did, but some companies still wouldn't do anything if it DID.
They are definately a long shot away from the worst of the bunch.

Just the thought of them acknowledging the problem is a huge weight off my shoulders. Regardless of what the fix will be, if it can be.

 

Well I have just played UT3 followed by COD4 and CS:S back to back to back while monitoring my m15x via Rivatuner with temp readings and all the GPU settings. My GPU has not downclocked at all, but interestingly my GPU has not gone over 72 in the last hour! I can't say I have a "good" unit but I don't think I have downclocked once. There was just that one day where I hit 93. Again, I do not use a laptop cooler yet either. Whatever fix that AW realizes, I hope it is available to ALL customers and I hope that they don't make it a pain to do.

 

When the fix becomes avail, I see no reason why they would not fix it while under warranty.

 

I don't hear any interference, and I use Ultimate Ears Metro.fi 2 in-ear headphones. Excellent headphone jack.

 

What program are you using to monitor temps? Make sure it is refreshing itself otherwise you won't be getting accurate results. If you are using GPU-Z, go to the Sensors tab and check the box to refresh itself even if it is in the background.

 

an interesting note, despite my relative "success" without downclocking (continues to knock on wood) I do have the cracking issue. Hehe....maybe that is why my laptop is staying cooler But I am sure AW can send someoen out to fix the alignment of the laptop in time...

 

Well I am using HWmonitor from CPUID.com It appears to change every second as when I leave the game the max temp shows the same and the "current temp" goes down degree by degree. Now I also am using the rivatuner temp monitor while I also use it to monitor ingame GPU performance. I believe that is always current no? When I exit the game the line begins to go down to show lowering temps.

edit: while i don't use GPU-z from CPUID.com I have found the HWmonitor to be perfect. It is real time with no tweaking settings and it monitors your CPUs, GPU and hard drives very accurately. It has matched rivatuner to the degree perfectly.

 

Sounds like you're fine.

 

I think that this is good that this blew up like this. Alienware never aknowledged the problems with the M5550 even though there was clearly issues. I think that having this blow up actually helped the M15x users to recieve help from Alienware as a whole, rather than having to deal with the all too good CS/TS. I am very happy that you guys are going to get your issues fixed. Also, another site, Loot-ninja, has posted up the issue with the M15x as well.

http://loot-ninja.com/2008/03/12/alienware-m15x-has-major-problems/

Good lucks guys, I hope your laptops are up and running well soon.

 

Grats Daveh...your in safe side.

Did you try the ATI tool? if not , try it

 

toprpm I downloaded it but cant figure out how to configure a looping bench? If you can get this message quickly I will do this before i go to the gym and leave it looping for an hour or so. I am training for a boxing match and have slacked on that due to my laptop obsession lol.

 

ok maybe i figured it out. I opend "ati monitoring tool" and then went to set up where I added the GPU core and memory clocks. I added "show 3d model" and it appears to be running a looping FPS. I am NOT looking for max overclockability which is what originally confused me because I used this tool back in the day to oc my MR9800. So I am going to let this loop for an hour or so while rivatuner monitors my system. The computer is going to be on flat table so that, while elevated slightly, the Fans will be blowing closer to the ground than usual (on my knee with both fans clearly exposed). I will report my findings in an hour.

edit: it stopped monitoring. I changed to "scan for artifacts" but I am not sure if that is really stressing the system? I see the temp rising consistently so I am going to assume this should be a valid test as long as it doesn't stop. The temp has gone from 55-75 in about 4 minutes. I am going to do some stuff and then report back if it downclockks.

 

i don't know how to use it , since i still didn't try it . maybe someone here can guide us to right way of configuring it.

 

I guess I was right (someone else also said it in the same thread, can't remember who right now) when I pointed out that maybe the cause of the poor performance may be the fact that Alienware kinda forced the cards to underclock at high temperatures.
The truth is always revealed... .

 

I cancelled my m15x order in pre-production, called power notebooks and bought an NP9262 from Donald Stratton instead.

Night and day difference talking with Donald from PN and the Alienware sales rep. I think the Alienware rep said 'uhhhhh' and 'ummmm' about 100 times during the conversation. Not his fault, probably just a kid.

Donald, however, had lightning quick reflexes and was highly knowledgable. Thanks Donald! It was a pleasure doing business with Power Notebooks.

Now, I receive the Sager on Friday instead of a 'possible' ship date of 4-1 for an apparently faulty m15x.

 

i thought the newer development is that it is underclocking due to possible PS issues? Some people are claiming its hitting 95 and not downclocking but will downclock at random temps.

 

Good for you (sarcasm). This is the OWNERS lounge. Sure not everyone is an owner and yes people are trying to trouble shoot their systems but do you think we care that you decided to cancel and go with someone else due to your not wanting a "faulty system?" Honestly do you not think that we are not aware that there are issues with these systems? It is getting tiring just reading about people who don't have the system downtalk AW and these issues we as OWNERS are having and you haven't a system in your hands. Instead of talking in the OWNERS lounge about how you are not going with our faulty system, why dont you go to the Sager forums and start posting there? THe issues are known, the issues are being worked on and I LIKE my laptop. I like the looks, the design, the performance (haven't noticed underclocking on mine). I don't like my "cracked case" and I dont like the potential for underclocking and my sometimes high heat output. However you better believe I will get my money's worth and the other people will get theirs as AW SHOULD fix this. We as owners REALIZED the potentials for first to market hardware issues and we chose to BUY. We KNEW about the competitors...and we did not CARE. peace.

 

OK I have confirmed i HAVE underclocking. I do not think it is strictly temperature related. It looks like it underclocks to stealth mode clocks and then bounces back up to full. This came on in the high 80s and early 90s but then it stayed at 90 degrees with no underclocking later on. So it cant be a temperature limit that reaches that downclocks the cards. At least not in my opinion.

I am thinking this may have to do with the power supply as another member pointed out. I would also recommend every user try to use rivatuner to identify their downclocking. I haven't noticed it in game and it is very brief so you may just have moments of lag that then shoot back up to normal for minutes at a time.

Kinda bummed I saw my downclocking lol. im going to kick some butt in the gym today for sure.

 

well tbh I don't think you should be anywhere near 90 degrees in the first place. Imo it's the temperature causing the underclock.

 

It's not something dumb like the heat triggering the touch capacitive Stealth mode button is it?

How long does it remain downclocked? What happens if when it downclocks you manually trigger the Stealth mode button?

 

lol, gl in all your future endeavours

 

I'm guessing that was building up for a long time ey Dave ?
Well I hope your crack problems get sorted out
Don't recall but will you be getting on-site help or are you sending it back to fix it ? Would be nice as a future-owner to know how they solve certain problems.. Thanx

 

As a potential m15x buyer Im interested in all opinions... Even if this thread is for owners, there's no harm on reading the problems that someones have got with their units... And also I'm interested on what people's getting in case their cancelling the m15x... I'sm still deciding what to get NP262 or the M15X.

 

I'm not an owner either, yet but we have special threads on what to buy if you cancel or don't like it or whine. Let the owners solve the problem and if we as future owners want to know something ask here. Posts like I canceld and xxx brand is cool or posts like omg I was right AW downclocked whatever are not constructive and useless both for owners and for me as a future owner or prospective buyer.

 

To be honest, this problem seems like its been caused by misinformation on the part of one of the companies involved in the m15x.

Alienware wouldn't release a product they didn't think would work, and would require fixing, and the most effective price point of this is to get the on-paper specs of each component and calculate how much cooling is required. Alienware have obviously not done the proper testing, and the only explanation I could come up for that is that benchmarks/testing units etc. are tested in a very cool environment (most large warehouses/manufacturing plants have huge cooling throughout, so that even on hot days everything functions correctly, however it means that on an average day, temps could be up to 5C lower then room temp, which makes a massive difference). Though I still think AW should have caught this issue much earlier.

Chaz in another topic said he couldn't believe that the 8800M operating on only 35W, Nvidia could have stated the minimum to try and increase sales. However it doesn't make sense, since this practice may increase sales 2%, but increase return rates by a huge % making the extra money simply not worth it.

So I really don't think Alienware or Nvidia would have intentionally mislead us, since its a financially bad decision and they have nothing to gain from it, however 'extensive testing' may have been carried out in cooler then usual conditions.

However for the fan manufacturers id say, is a much more likely source of misinformation, CFM is measured over time and a minimum/maximum taken, however some manufacturers have been known to use the maximum value given, and not take an average, which obviously boosts their sales by quite a bit, and since most fans bought are bought for systems that don't need as much cooling as the fan gives, return rates wouldn't be affected much. And as Alienware are obviously on a pretty tight price, an extra £20 could have lost customers, so a fan that is advertised to give just enough cooling for them and at a lower price then others, is more likely to be bought and used. Which as said before, isn't going to show up in factory conditions, however is much more likely to show up in home use.

 

Regarding the underclocking...
Did anyone tried to install different drivers (from http://www.laptopvideo2go.com, for example) to check whether the problem persists? Did anyone tried uninstalling (or disabling) the Alien Centre (that controls all the power thingies and speeds and performances and etc)?

 

3rd party drivers make the card underclock at all times, so it's not a solution.

 

I did the test again. The laptop was off for the night.

SM2.0: 3683
HDR/SM3: 3675
CPU:2302

8440 score @ 1440x900 with No AA

 

I personally do not feel that this is entirely a temperature issue. However, if it is, it is a delayed action. Why do I say this? This is why:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1111/tempsbl7.jpg

This was accomplished by simply lifting the front of the notebook up to about a 30 degree angle or so. As you can see, it went to 105 before it downclocked. However, in this instance, such was not the case (though it was close):

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1369/temps2hl1.jpg

I again lifted the notebook and this is what happened. This time I included the fan speeds since I just figured out where ThermoFan was. The fan speeds basically top at 5400 RPM or so. IMO they could go much much faster.

At a fan speed of ~5400 RPM, under full load on a flat surface, the GPU can stay around 80-81 degrees. (the declining line at the end is the heat up phase ending).

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/8735/temps3cl9.jpg

Proof that the GPU fan should actually be able to go faster (since they're basically the same):

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/6822/fanspeedgs1.jpg

Conclusion: The fans do not spin fast enough. They should be more than capable of spinning faster to cool the components. Also, it seems to me that the fan speed slowly increases as the temp goes up, BUT, upon angling the front of the notebook up, the temperature increases very rapidly, which causes the fans to instantly whirl up to 5400 RPM, and also downclocks the system.

 

nice work there, thanks.

 

nice work lessaj7 this just gives me more reason to be disapointed. so i guess a software/driver update can fix it? the fans max is speed is already set? so the only way to fix this is to mail it in or somthing? do they have the ability to put a faster fan in it?

 

We as a user can put a faster fan in (if AW provides one to us, or if we can find a fan of comparable size perhaps) since the fan is removable to get the heatsink off of a component to reseat it.

 

Just wanted to give a shout out to all you guys that complained. I know some people were saying that this shouldnt have been "blown up". Personally, I think these people have every right to blow it out of proportion. I have dished out 4k on an m15x and am currently waiting for it to come (3/25).

Overheating and downclocking is a huge deal, and I think Alienware should be kissing our asses to get the problem fixed. I am glad this is getting public because this will light the fire under their butts to fix it.

As far as alienware CS goes....they have to clean house. This is my first time with AW, and half of these people seem clueless as to what their job is. My order status hasnt changed in two weeks online (phase 2), yet when I call them they dont know what "phases" im talking about. Finally they spit out im in pre-production. And like all of you...I too have been getting the run around with these guys. Its kind of upsetting to dish out that much money and talk to people who dont even know the product they are selling...makes me very uneasy if something bad happens to my laptop, what I will end up having to do.

Just wanted to say good job getting it out there...and to the people that are saying "your just bashing alienwares name"....well all i have to say is if they rectify the situation....it will make them look even better in my eyes because they can turn it around.

 

I hope that is not directed at my comment to stop bashing AW in the owners thread because you clearly didn't read my thread entitled "AW needs to give us answers and they need to do it NOW" thread in which AW-steve actually gave an official statement about 4 hours later. However it is posts like yours that are dilluting the intention of this specific thread. This thread is for troubleshooting and for owners and potential owners. THere is no point in coming in this specific thread to complain about AW and then stating why they are going with another company. As others have pointed out, there are more appropriate threads and forums for that. I am just trying to help do my part to keep things moving forward. I have spent over 3k and am having all the issues that other members are having and that is frusturating enough. You better believe I am not a happy AW buyer right now! SO let's all just try to keep this thread from derailing and then having to move to yet ANOTHER thread because this got too big. Lets just keep this focused on troubleshooting and "my alien has landed" and things like that!!

 

If you order a Dell from the UK, you also have a 1 month waiting period. It seems they are also running low on components... (although it's always under 1 month).
I don't think that it's a big deal having to wait 1 month for a laptop! The big deal is that since the moment the Laptop was available to order in the UK, no unit has came out to their clients!

Regarding 3rd party GPU drivers... I've had only good experiences with them. I've had a XPS M1530 and the laptopvideo2go drivers clearly made a difference. I never had downclocking, rather the opposite...

 

this is an email i received 17 mins ago

Thank you for keeping in touch.

I appreciate your honesty and your transparent communication with me. We have customers that are, in fact, reporting the issues which you are mentioning. We are aware of the forum posts in the page that you submitted, as well as others. I invite you to see our official position regarding the issues that have been brought to our attention:

"Though we have tested the machines thoroughly, we have not experienced this issue at Alienware; however, customer satisfaction is extremely important to us and we will continue to investigate and see if we can duplicate the issue. Once we can isolate the issue and how to address it, we will let our Customer Service Technicians know immediately so they can help users that may be experiencing this issue. As always, we take any feedback in forums, blogs, and newsgroups seriously and encourage our customers to contact us directly whenever they experience unexpected issues with their machines."

We have collected feedback in the past weeks with customers, like you, who have helped us to do so. We are currently working on a solution to this and all other issues which have been reported. Our Research Team is currently trying to replicate all possible issues in our labs and trying to provide the best solution for our customers. This, of course, is an intense process which demands a lot of effort and time. Meaning that for the time being, we do not have an official release about which solutions apply to which of the reported problems. However, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, we will stand behind our products and provide working systems to all of our customers.

I am sorry if you have received a distorted image of the service that Alienware provides, but we are working to have all of the concerns addressed with the Area-51 m15x, as we do with all of our products. Please feel free to contact me back whenever you would like to.


Sincerely,


[ name removed ]
Electronic Support
Alienware Corporation​

According to this email, this AW ee believes that they have NOT yet replicated the problems and are still trying to do so. Regardless, it's nice to hear that they are doing something.

I'm still going to assume that the person Chaz talked to today, and the other guy i spoke with yesterday on the phone, gave us good info when they said they know of the problem and HAVE replicated it in their own testings... maybe not everyone there knows about it and there comes in the miscommunication and the reason why many people feel that AW is blowing this whole thing off. If you get a typical "brush off" response, maybe that person just doesn't know all the details yet.

Even though i do get mixed info, overall i'm happy enough with AW support through my many calls and emails with them. I'm pretty convinced they genuinely want to remedy this and are working hard to do so.

Really though, it's in their best interest to unlike the HTC incident. If AW doesn't handle this properly (whether they want to or not), I don't see how they will be able to retain any respect in the tech world for long given that a lot of people feel AW have been sliding downhill for the past 2 years.

All in all, i do believe that they genuinely want to find a solution that will benefit the customers and cater to their needs.

 

Ok guys, my cousin was playing CoD4 for about 4 hours yesterday and I had a temp monitoring program running in the background. I wasn't watching the whole time but when I was the game was running very smoothly on 1920x1200. When he was done playing I checked the temps and it never got above 82 degrees. Now, I did have some coasters placed underneath the back feet raising it about 3/4 of an inch. Do you think that the reason it never got really hot is because I elevated it slightly, allowing air to the bottom? Or do you think it's because I've only played games on it twice ever? Or do you think that I got a miracle m15x?

 

Also, something I wanted to add, after I concluded my testing, my GPU fan is still at 5000 RPM.

 

wow they cant create the problem? that means a fix is VERY far away. all they have to do play crysis for an hour.