Bluetooth issues, theory for fix. PLEASE READ.

HELLO.

So, recently I bought the Razer Orochi bluetooth mouse, and people either love it or hate it from what I've read. But this isn't a thread about the mouse, it's about the m11x's poor bluetooth signal. I've done some major googling and ran into a bunch of qq about bluetooth:

-disappearing after high-traffic (i.e. playing music through BT stereo headphones)
-but mainly, the Orochi (since most people with BT gaming mice have this) lagging during in game play. But during regular use, it'd be fine.

Now, I ended up having multiple theories, but since I don't feel like typing an essay here's my conclusion:

The m11x during "intense gaming sessions" may divert less power or limit the bluetooth module's signal. Now this isn't all that's needed for a BT mouse to lag, however. When gaming, one usually has a hand over the WSAD keys, and the majority of the left side of the laptop. This is enough to limit the signal and combined with lower transmit power, lags Bluetooth devices. I've tried clicking/moving the mouse around with and without my hand blocking and it confirms my theory.

The m11x contains the Dell Wireless 365 module, and from what I've read has worked flawlessly in other Dell laptops.

As I'm staying in another house atm, I don't have a wired keyboard to attach to do more testing. Oh and on a side note, it seems like when the laptop lid is closed, wifi signal is also reduced. I output to an external monitor, and my signal goes from fair to poor when the screen is closed.

Anywho, I am thinking of tinkering with the module - disassembling the m11x and attaching a wire to the antenna or something in hopes of boosting the signal. I'll post progress along the way and maybe take some pictures


If anyone wants to try confirming these results, please feel free. If anyone has already found a fix to this issue, please speak up. It seems that there aren't many bluetooth users, and their cries of plea get lost in all the other threads.

Edit: Sorry if I wasn't clear, but don't mean the 8ms bluetooth latency, I mean the cursor starts jittering and being totally non-responsive, with seconds of delay.

 

-reserved For pictures/fix-

EDIT: Model is "Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6230 - Network adapter (62230AN.HMWWB)" ordered from MacMall. I don't think I can post up a direct link cause I think a mod deleted my post, so just google it. I know Amazon has it too, but it's a bit more expensive.

Got it for $23.xx shipped, came within 5 days.

If you choose to buy from ebay, be warned that you could receive a fake or an engineering sample, which could drastically affect performance.
Confirmed working, been using my Orochi in Bluetooth wireless mode, lag-free playing LoL for hours with Skype. Before it would start lagging within a couple of minutes.

This has also allowed me to overclock to a stable 166mhz and oced gpu, where before I could only max at 160/162! I think the Bluetooth or stock Dell cards were limiting overclocks.

 

BT mouse lag during gaming has been there, and I don't think it will go away. I've had most of high end laptops from dell since early 2000's, and when the lag comes, it just does with any system.

I just go with wired mouse for gaming.

 

Doesn't explain why when I move my hand off the laptop keyboard, the lag goes away..

 

Sorry. I wasn't trying to explain why. Just saying it is what it is.

 

Haha yeah, well what do you mean my lag though? I don't mean the 8ms latency, I mean the cursor starts jittering and being totally non-responsive, with seconds of delay. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Have you experienced that with most of the laptops you've owned?

 

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. Frequent slow response time, then sudden disconnects.

Getting killed even after spotting enemies first in games just got old, and moved on to wired gaming mouse after giving up. I have 3 BT mouse collecting dust (all pretty expensive, and rechargeable ones).

 

Weird, cause I've read people having absolutely no problem with BT mice even in gaming. What laptops have you had this problem on?

 

E1705, XPS M1710, M90, XPS M1330, XPS M1730, and I didn't even bother with newer systems I have on my sig.

 

"As I'm staying in another house atm, I don't have a wired keyboard to attach to do more testing. Oh and on a side note, it seems like when the laptop lid is closed, wifi signal is also reduced. I output to an external monitor, and my signal goes from fair to poor when the screen is closed."

Thats because the wifi wires are routed through the Screen.

 

I realize this. Doesn't change the fact that if the lid is closed, wifi reception will be poorer. Something to consider for those who output to an external monitor, that is all.

 

My bluetooth kept dropping out and disappearing, only when playing audio through my bluetooth speaker system.

Dell tech visited me at work today to replace the bluetooth card.

The computer has now been connected to my speakers for 2.5hours without so much as a stutter, previously the longest it would manage would be 2 or 3 minutes.

Therefore the bluetooth fix is, I reckon, a new bluetooth card.

 

I agree. New bluetooth card is needed. It's the only thing that makes sense.

 

Yesterday I replaced my Dell 365 Bluetooth module with one from the Thinkpad 410, drivers installed correctly and got my Orochi up and running fine. However, exact same thing happens. While the T410 BT module is a BIT better, whenever I cover the left side of my laptop with my palm there is lag in game, and whenever I remove my hand the lag immediately disappears.

I have disabled Bluetooth power management in Windows 7 and it has not fixed the issue. From what I can tell, there's some fault with the design of the m11x and too much interference. Bluetooth was working fine on the T410 when the module was still in there.

I'm going to try other drivers, but at the moment I think the only fix would be to buy an external bluetooth usb adapter (which ruins the whole point of bluetooth) or spring for an Intel 6230 wifi card with built-in bluetooth. The antennas connect to the wifi pci-e card, I don't know if this is only for wifi or for both wifi and BT, but hopefully it should work.

Problem is I can't find many sellers for the Intel 6230 :|

 

There is a gaming wireless mouse from logitech that comes with mini usb wireless module. It's not a Bluetooth though and doesn't lag from what I've read.

 

Sorry, I am not asking for mouse suggestions. I have a 2.4ghz wireless Microsoft usb mouse that works fine, and I use the Orochi in wired mode.

This doesn't change the fact that I would also like to be able to use the Orochi on my laptop decently for gaming. I don't care for "latency" issues. The gaming mouse from Logitech is the G700, and the lag you're referring to is latency, not skipping/stuttering/non-responsiveness I am experiencing with Bluetooth while gaming.

Again, I experienced no lag with the Thinkpad410 BT module in the T410 laptop. Taking that SAME module and sticking it in my m11x resulted in lag. This brings me to the conclusion there is a hardware issue on the m11x, or my motherboard might just be a dud. However, there are many others with the same issue in multiple threads..

 

My problems have started again with BT.

How easy would this Intel 6230 which you speak of be to fit?

 

Hi miXwui, I have the exact same problem, in fact one of the many threads you saw was probably by me. I gave up along time ago and use my Orochi in wired mode all the time now. What I use to do was move my mouse quickly to the left side for a brief moment to stop the horrid lag and then play again, needless to say it didn't work well enough for me to continue gaming like that. I too thought of tinkering with the BT module but it was screwed on so hard I could not even take it out. Anyway thanks for the thread an keep us updated!

Oh, the problem went away when I used a BT dongle, so it's definitely the module.

Edit: Also there was another member that had the m11x and had no problem gaming on wireless with the Orochi. Wierd.

 

I can't understand why when bluetooth drops out it will only be redetected by a shutdown-start up. Restart does not bring BT back.

 

kfruit, thanks for the information on the BT dongle! This definitely confirms that it is problem with the module. Well actually, I think the Dell 365 BT module isn't the problem, cause I've read it works fine in non m11x laptops - also replacing it with a Thinkpad410 module didn't fix the issue. So what I'm thinking is the m11x motherboard is faulty/not giving BT module enough power?

Also in regards to not being able to screw out the BT module, did you have a proper screwdriver with enough torque? Mine came out fine, haha.

I saw the same member probably, I forget who it was though :|

This problem is entirely seperate I think, I think it has to do with power saving settings inside Windows 7. Go to Start > right click Computer > Properties.

Then on the left side click Device Manger, click expand Bluetooth Radios, right click the Dell 365 module and go to properties.

Go to Power Management tab and uncheck "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" and it should be fixed.

If not, try going down to Universal Serial Bus controllers in Device Manager and right click and go to Properties for each Generic USB Hub. Under the Power tab, one of them should have the Bluetooth module in the Description. For that Generic Usb Hub, go to Power Management and again uncheck "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power."

EDIT: Oh misread your post sortof. Shutting/powering down probably just resets everything completely?

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The Intel 6230 replaces your entire wifi card, though it might also fit in the WWAN port. Will need an adapter to convert from half card to full though. The 6230 should be better than the stock Dell DW1520 wifi card, too.

As soon as I find a good place to buy it, I will and once it comes I'll test it and report back

EDIT: Just bought from here http://www.macmall.com/p/product~dpno~8355777~pdp.gdicdec even though I despise Apple, lol. $19.99 + 3.99 (4-7 First Class shipping+ for a total of $23.98. Not bad, hopefully it arrives soon! And it has Bluetooth 3.0

 

You don't have to reboot for Bluetooth disappearing. I just do wireless off then turn it back on and I usually get it back.

 

I had that disappearing not connecting problem, support had me pull the battery and a 60 second power drain. I'll be it worked I was surprised. Haven't had a problem since.

 

umm i hope you can find a fix for this i havent yet it dosent only affect mouse but also my stereo blue tooth headset lags too i have an external blue tooth that connects thru usb so i dont think the problem is the one comes internally when you get from dell im thinking this has to be software related to windows 7 as im sure many of you have noticed how much slower everything on windows 7 is compared to windows xp i dont have external cd rom drive so im stuck with windows 7 but im curious to know if anyone has windows xp on the same system and has any bluetooth lag issues

 

Now we're getting conflicting results on external bluetooth adapters, but it could just be that your's is faulty, or lower quality. And Windows 7 is "slower" cause it requires more resources ram, but it can be "faster" in many ways, too. However, it could be software related (though I seriously doubt it through my testing..but then again, the Thinkpad410 DOES have Windows XP..)

Interesting, I'll install Windows XP soon and test it out. If that's the case, it would be driver related, but finding drivers for Broadcom BT chips is a pain in the ***, especially for Dell.

 

Sorry to bump, but people with this problem and those who posted earlier, can you please state whether you have an r1, r2, or r3? Thank you, I want to see if different models perform, er..differently.

The r2 has redesigned innards and chassis than the r2, the r3 has a completely different bluetooth module (Dell 375 vs 365).

 

I have used my Orochi with the R1/DW365 and R3 DW375. The range is very limited with both. I can use it right next to the notebook but I can't use it even a couple feet away. I also can't use it with a simultaneous A2DP stream. I figured it was just a low-range class device and all BT devices seem to lose connection when you cover the transmitter. Heck, my iPhone 4 can't stay connected to anything if I so much as put it in my pocket and I've exchanged it multiple times (same BT accessories that worked fine with iPhone 3GS/3G). I have to hold it a foot or two away from my headset without anything in between. When people ask why I don't just use it as a handset, I groan and then start ranting about how the proximity/face sensor doesn't work for crap even though it worked fine on my 3G and 3GS before it. $@!#!$

 

Ah, so it remains somewhat of a problem in the r3 as well..
It MUST be a design flaw, since the T410 BT module inside the Thinkpad laptop I mentioned before was able to work flawlessly across the room I'd say around 10-15 feet, whereas stuck inside the m11x my Orochi and Microsoft 5000 BT mouse only work a few feet (I'd say 3 feet max) /:

Eagerly awaiting my Intel 6230 wifi/bt card!

EDIT: Oh and I'm a diehard crApple hater, so I'm just going to say that all the iPhones suck and will never work with Bluetooth, deathgrip or not

 

Mine is an R1 model.

My hand over the left palm rest is causing the dropouts here.

When BT disappears, only a hard shut down of the machine restores the BT service.

I'm gonna try the intel 6230..

 

Thanks for confirming the "BT left-side palmrest issue" - this is what I'll call it for now. I've opened my laptop and that is exactly where the BT module sits.

If you're BT service is disappearing, try going to Start > Services (or type services.msc and press enter). Scroll and find the respective BT services, and hit restart on the left side. I don't know if this will fix it, just an option.

 

BUMP, I'll have you guys happily know that the Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6230 Wifi/BT card works perfectly!

I received it today, uninstalled all Bluetooth drivers and removed the Dell Bluetooth Module (somewhat deep inside the motherboard).

After that, I replaced my stock Dell wifi module with the Intel 6230, installed drivers from here:

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Sea...oductProduct=Intel®+Centrino®+Advanced-N+6230

I'm reporting way better wifi signal than the stock Dell DW1520 wifi card, and my Bluetooth with my Orochi is lag free, even across the room whereas the stock bluetooth module only worked within a couple of feet and lagged in game.

It doesn't lag in game anymore, and I can finally game with my Orochi!


EDIT: Pictures uploaded in 2nd post

 

Wow, that's great! "Will need an adapter to convert from half card to full though. " you didn't actually need to in the end right? I was a little confused reading that in your previous post. I think I might pick one off of ebay, since I live outside the U.S. Hope I don't get a fake one I can't take out my BT card though, as long I uninstall the drivers shouldn't be a problem thought right?

 

I wouldn't want a device with a question mark .

 

That's if you want to use the card in the WWAN port, which I'm not completely sure it works cause I'm too lazy to test that out haha, but you might be able to run the 6230 with only bluetooth drivers or disable to wifi mode and run it along with your current wifi chip. Or run them both at the same time, who knows? Haha, if anyone wants me to test this out I can though.

No need for any adapters if you're just replacing your wifi card though.
I wouldn't advise ebay, cause you could get gipped and get a fake/engineering sample. The link I posted earlier was 24 bucks with shipping, came in 5 days. I'd highly recommend it, though they called me and woke me up last Saturday morning to confirm my shipping address..

But since you live outside the US, ebay might be the only choice..does Amazon ship to you?

I'm assuming it would work if you disabled the old bluetooth drivers. I currently have a device with a question mark though (free-fall sensor)

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On a side note, I played LoL while Skyping with absolutely no lag whatsoever with my Orochi in Bluetooth. Also, I think I'm getting more stable/higher overclocks since I took out the Bluetooth module and replaced my stock Dell wifi adapter.. could be a placebo effect though.

Reporting now that I'm overclocked at the full 166mhz, where before I could only reach 160/162.

EDIT: Oh also want to mention that the Orochi's infamous wake-up lag is pretty much worry free now. Barely a stutter when it wakes up with the 6230
EDIT2: I think a mod deleted my post with the link to the store I bought it from..check post 2 in a bit.

 

No, Amazon doesn't ship where I live, and I could only find engineering samples on ebay The ones that were legit from the U.S had $50 shipping.. Umm, so how bad are engineering samples again? >.>

 

Uhm, I actually have no idea how bad the engineering samples are :|
May be able to get a Bluetooth adapter that fits in the WWAN port? Or just spring for the engineering sample, though I think I've read that sometimes they don't get recognized by Windows..not sure at all though.