Concensus on M11x LCD displays? Samsung vs LG vs AUO?

I'll test in a minute. (I'm posting from an iPad.) Does your M11x produce a deep shade of black on wallpapers? I found all of Alienware's included wallpapers - all of which I really like, to look terribly bad as the wallpaper due to the screen's black levels.

I'll take a picture, but I'll only post it if the picture from an iPhone 4 can reflect the screen's quality well enough.

 

You were right with it being a problem of the display's insanely low viewing angles. The display isn't bad, but I'm hoping for a new M11x to be announced so I could sell/return this one.

 

Despite the rampant speculation around here of a new revision or a possible M14x coming soon, I think it's going to be 3rd quarter at least before that happens.

On the bright side you may end up having yours replaced anyway. Panel lotto!

 

Do you think it may be replaced due to failing hinges or just my OCD? On the downside, I don't like and didn't end on a good foot with my local Dell technician when I had my XPS 720 desktop. But on another upside, I definitely will sell this before my warranty is up since the extended warranty isn't worth the price (which gives me 14 months since my warranty goes for ~ 420 days) and Alienware systems aren't praised for holding up for a long time. Thankfully, the Alienware brand carries a nice resale rate.

On an unrelated note, are the bottom left and right corners of the inside of the system supposed to be sharp? They're definitely a little rough on mine.

 

I was being facetious really. Odds are your panel will be fine probably.

The corners on mine are a little pointy, and I think that's normal.

 

Woah, a little World of Warcraft revealed the screen's viewing angles to be abysmal, worse than I thought. Either the top of the screen looks black and hard to make out or the bottom looks bright and washed-out. I'll decide whether to keep this or not after Alienware's announcements at CES. Maybe I can still get around $700-$800 for this in the summer if it takes that long for a new M11x?

 

I've played the panel lotto.

It's worth it. How? I use the hinge issue.

As Slickie and many of the other M11x old timers know,
I've had 1 AUO, which was the worst, and then 3 Samsungs. Having 3 Samsungs taught me that Picture Quality can vary even within the same manufacturer. I liken it to how CPU's and GPU's are all the same model/brand but all OC differently, and it just depends on being lucky or knowing which batch is reported to be good.

My 4th Samsung panel's PQ is Gorgeous. Really bright and vivid. Great color balance. Could be better, but arguably falls within the spectrum of my initial expectations of getting a quality panel for a quality gaming netbook.

The one caveat however, and I can't remember if it was mentioned in this thread or another, is that there is a slight gap of spacing between the panel and the case above the camera.

I remember a disgruntled owner was going to have his panel exchanged again for this same reason, and admittedly it drove me nuts at first as well, as I never saw it on the three previous panels. And my replacement is not a refurbished unit, but a brand new built exchange (brand new at the time anyway) - And the hinges felt good (still do. I'm "choosing" to believe that they're not going to fail, but I have no expectations) -

So I elected to keep this panel. Even with the gap. I think we all can agree that bottom line it's all about picture quality, and that it's better to have a panel with outstanding PQ and a slight gap at the top of the casing, than a perfectly sealed panel with nominal PQ.

Bottom line, don't have expectations if you get your panel switched out by the manufacturer you're getting - After going through 6 IPhone 4's because of dead pixels or horribly varying degrees of PQ on them - it's my hypothesis that the technology is not there yet to guarantee a set specification of PQ on smaller LCD displays, say roughly 13" or smaller.

So with that being the case, all those who don't like their panels, I'd suggest using your 1 year warranty and keep switching them out until you get one you're happy with. Because trust me, outstanding panels do exist for this machine. I know, but it took 4 tries to get one. And 3 were from the same manufacturer - Samsung. And the one I love? Also a Samsung.

But when you do get your panel switched, make sure to really examine and decide to keep it on the picture quality above all else, instead of other issues.
As it really is a lottery to get one that is what a gamer expects when buying this machine (dead pixels or dust under the screen also fall under picture quality parameters, and no matter how good the rest of the screen looks, should be exchanged until you get one that's worthy.)

So if it's like mine, and there's a gap anywhere in the seal between the actual display and case, but you have outstanding PQ - consider keeping it.

Or don't. But as a guy that's been to Vegas one too many times, I know when to walk away with a good haul when it hits big.

Panels with great PQ are out there. I say if they want to be nozzles about hinges, use their 1 year warranty on them and keep switching panels until you get one that makes you happy.

They are not a myth like Sasquatch and the Yeti. If PQ is what you care about most, they're out there.

 

Thanks for the in-depth post. How did the first two Samsung displays compare to the display you have now? I'd probably be happy the first time I get a Samsung display, though I'm hoping for a M11x R3 to be announced tomorrow, and for Alienware to have listened to the complaints about inconsistency and a typically mediocrely-average display quality.

 

M11xR1 AUO monitor.

you could use Lagom monitor test pages as a reference. Then people could compare rats with rodents.

Viewing angle - Lagom LCD test

It's not the be all end all of LCD screen testing, but it does give a good indication of the quality of an LCD screen.

Using an IPS monitor and then looking at the above on my M11x there is a difference. But guess I'm the odd one that doesn't even care, cause I didn't buy my M11x for it's picture quality.

That said. On the M11x there is only a couple of degrees before the viewing angle is lost. On my IPS monitor you almost have to be behind the monitor to see anything different. M11x it's only a few degrees from 0° and the picture goes pear-shape.

Blacks on my M11xR1 AUO screen is OK- ish. Within it's 1° viewing angle tolerance.

Gamma calibration is not very flash though. First column blends at approx. 1.7 when it should be 2.2. My IPS is text book perfect, no surprise there then.

Not sure I'm using an sRGB color profile, but still, shouldn't be that far out.

The response time on my IPS in sRGB mode is around 5ms, quicker if put into gaming mode. However the IPS monitor still seems to think it has a faster response time than the M11x ... opps did I say that. Bit of a worry for a gaming notebook. Given IPS monitors are not known for there response time.

I do have Nvidia enabled on my M11xR1.

On the forum, I've read of a few people who said they did graphics work on the M11x and one seemed quite professional. I don't get it. As I can't see how it could be done. All power to them I say.

 

They were both very similar to each other, and markedly better than the AUO.

They had good contrast, black levels, decent color balance, not great viewing angles.

The main difference between those two and my current one is pretty much comes down to vibrancy. This one is just more vibrant, which while making everything pop, also helps a little with the limited viewing angles. Though to be clear, they're still way limited.

And honestly? It could be as Slickie has said before, maybe it's really more a matter of my eyes adjusting to the size and state of the screen, rather than the screen actually being better. Only taking exact measurements with professional calibration equipment (like what Slickie has) between the three and see how they stack up against ISF standards would be the definitive way to see if there's discrepancies between the 3 panels or any two panels of the same make and model and manufacturer.

While the Samsung panel may not have PQ up to the standard gamers expect in a netbook at this price, it is much noticeably better than the AUO in my limited experience.

Although to be fair, there's got to be some good AUO panels out there in the wild. Maybe just not as many if it's true about their quality being all over the place. But I'm sure somebody in this world has an AUO panel that is equal to or better than any of the Samsungs; if my theory is correct about LCD manufacturing brings random results from the same make and model, the same CPU's that are the same give random varying results in overclocking, and is just a uncontrollable side effect of the manufacturing process.

And of course, most wouldn't know or see it unless they put them up side by side or as before, actually measure the signals.

 

Personally I want this screen in the next M11x revision:
LG Xnote P210 claims 'world's thinnest bezel' title, our undying appreciation -- Engadget

Granted it wont be an M11x anymore with that screen, but at least there won't be that stupid bezel to deal with...and we get a bigger screen within the same footprint and better quality. Now if Alienware did that, and put a Sandy Bridge processor/ Nvidia 500 graphics, and fixed the hinges...

 

Well with a little finagling you could probably fit a 13.1" inside the M11x. I still don't know why they didn't make it a 13" screen even if overall dimensions had to be slightly bigger. Probably could have fit a full mobile i5 in there then too.

 

The market is somewhat flooded with 13" machines... I like the fact that ours is an 11". 11" uses less battery as well, and that was another main focus of the M11x. If you want to play serious though, HDMI makes it very easy to hook it up to a much larger screen... thats why I like the smaller dimensions.

 

I'm disappointed that a M11x R3 wasn't announced today. The screen is the R1 and R2 main thing I don't like, and the screen quality is very important to me because it's a "window" into the digital world. I'm still not sure if the screen will lead me to sell or return this...

 

My point is that the M11x is the same dimensions as most 13" laptops, so IMHO they should have used a 13" screen.

 

What resolution and impact on frame rates would a 13" screen have had on the M11x using the 335M GPU? I'm wondering how much this also played a part in the decision...?

 

13" screens seem to be somewhere around 1280x720 usually. Even if the resolution was slightly higher than 1366x768, it would have a very small impact on frame-rates.

 

None. They'd both be 1366x768. Minimum resolution for all notebooks is 1366x768 for compatibilty with 1024x768 resolutions. Except many netbooks carry 1024x600 resolutions.

The decision I'm certain was on cost and also the ability to prominently display their Alienware logo below the screen (seriously).

 

if you calibrate the screens there is almost no difference between AOU and Samsung.

 

Although the Samsung definitely has a narrow view angle. My first M11x had an AUO and while it was somewhat washed out, the viewing angles weren't half bad. The Samsung it's like looking down a tunnel otherwise it starts to fade to black or white if you're slightly off perpendicular to the screen.

 

Yeah, I think that reinforces that any given panel from any given manufacturer is going to have it's own set of characteristics. My AUO's vertical sweet spot is ridiculously tiny.

 

I would look into trying to fit a 11.6" MacBook Air panel in here since the screens used in that are great. I may be a little too OCD for the job, though because I'd seriously worry about getting fingerprints or dust stuck in the screen. It seems almost impossible for some dust not to get stuck inside. Curious: would anyone pay for such a service, replacing the M11x screen with a drastically better S-IPS panel?

Anyway: so far, so good performance-wise. The ULV Core 2 Duo is faster than my MacBook Pro's T9400 outside of games and apps, oddly (for Windows Explorer, possibly HDD-related). I can't wait to get Age of Conan on here, I just needed a few extra frames on my MacBook Pro for it to run perfectly.

 

No. If I wanted a laptop with a great screen, I would have just bought a Sony Vaio Z series. By the time you buy an Alienware M11x + cost of screen + time to replace screen, you get close to the price of a Sony Vaio Z anyway.

So if that's what you want, you might as well just buy a Sony Vaio Z. You also get the added benefit of getting a larger screen, lower weight, and an optical drive.

When I bought my Alienware M11x, I knew that there were limitations to it so that it would fit into the price range that it has. And one of those limitations is the screen quality. If the screen quality on the Alienware M11x was unacceptable to me, I never would have bought it to begin with.

 

Isn't it though - find my self leaning in or pulling back depending on where I have it unconciously trying to hit it.

The info you posted on tweaking the display helped a LOT... but you can only make up for so much inherent weakness in the panel itself.

I took that attitude, but I still wish even if the color wasn't better, that at least the viewing angles were better... even so, compromises must be made.

 

The Sony Vaio Z costs over double what my M11x cost me (and that's with RAM and HDD upgrades). 11.6" panels aren't that expensive, the problem is actually doing the panel replacement.

 

If you want a better screen on the Alienware M11x:
- So, you pay about $1000 for an Alienware M11x.
- You pay $200 for a 120GB SSD.
- You pay (whatever) to upgrade to 4GB / 8GB of RAM.
- You need to find and buy an 11.6" / 12.1" / 13.3" panel that is superior quality to the panel that comes with the Alienware M11x panel.
- You need to spend several hours tearing down your Alienware M11x screen bezel to install the new screen, and risk totally destroying your display, and voiding your warranty (at least on the dispay)/
- There is no guarantee that the new panel would even work with the Alienware M11x.
- If anything goes wrong with the display in the future, you cannot get warranty or support on it, because it is non-standard.

... how much money do you really save there, when you consider money + time + risk from doing this?


OOOOOORRRRRR, you could:
- Buy a Sony Vaio Z.
- It's lighter. It has an optical drive. There is zero risk in you breaking something or voiding your warranty from modding your laptop. Done.

 

Right. I got my M11x for $499 (SU7300, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD). But I am very OCD about getting dust behind my screen glass, so won't touch it unless I absolutely have to. I think if I have a hinge issue I will get it replaced until I get a screen to my liking. Then maybe if breaks again, I'll do my own hack job on the hinge.

Now if I knew there was a compatible display for $100 that was awesome, I might take that risk now, and fix the hinge right away. But I don't know that anyone has found a display that is a straight and easy replacement.

 

I think they vary just one by one actually with monitors... think of how often one after the other will have a dead pixel, color variation, etc.

This is the thing that amazes me the most with Apple... I don't know how they do the QA, but their monitors on phones, ipads, computers have an amazing degree of consistency in the line. I'm sure this goes back to their desktop publishing roots, but its still amazing to me, you pick up two and they are *very* close if not identical... so its possible to get more consistency, I think the PC-world is just so used to crappy monitors companies don't think it matters.

Back to the subject, I have spent some good time tweaking the AUO... its as neutral on white as I can get it, but the blue shift... ever so much shows no matter what

 

Indeed. The later generations of Apple Cinema displays are extremely close to one another in IQ characteristics. A few weeks ago I calibrated a large ad agency's entire Mac farm and it got to the point where it was obvious that I could easily have created a master profile for most of them that were of the same age.

 

It's all about quality control and that comes at a price as well. Either you design and manufacture with tight tolerances to keep that "consistency" or you sort through a lot of crap, and scrap, reuse, recycle the rest. Either way it's costly. Although I believe Apple holds tight tolerances on everything. It's way more expensive up front, but cheaper on a per unit basis because you don't scrap as much.

I find it hard to believe, however, that other manufacturers can relax the tolerances that much to have so much variation. And with a 1366x768 pixel display there should never be dead pixels. The resolution is too small and technology is far enough along that such a small resolution should pose no problems, nor should they miss any in even a lacking QC.

 

Alienware has one of the poorest quality controls. That's really their worst flaw, though. It's baffling how they still haven't improved to the point where they isn't a significant amount of users with issues or inconsistent systems. You'd think they would learn a lot from the first-generation M15x, but they didn't. At least back then, they only used one panel in each laptop.

 

I think Notebook Check provides our consensus:

Samsung:
Maximum: 193.4 cd/m²
Average: 172.5 cd/m²
Illumination: 78 %
Black: 1.56 cd/m²
Contrast: 124:1

AUO:
Maximum: 175.6 cd/m²
Average: 157.5 cd/m²
Illumination: 80 %
Black: 0.81 cd/m²
Contrast: 217:1

So the AUO actually has significantly better specifications in terms of contrast ratio and black level. After calibrated to get rid of the blue shift, it is quite a good 11.6" display. The only thing the Samsung could have over the AUO that wasn't measured would be better viewing angles, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Does having a Samsung display just cause owners to perceive the quality has been increased? Probably. You really have to see both panels side-by-side to make an unbiased judgement.

 

The problem is, is that people who have seen both of them have, at times, contradicted those measurements, while others' observations have held up those specs. Again, I'm pretty certain that any given AUO or Samsung could be better than another of the same make/model. Lots of variation in certain aspects of image quality. It's quite possible that I'll get another AUO panel this week that looks worse or better than the one I have now. One thing that I would think would remain consistent within the the model would be viewing angle though.

To further illustrate, my AUO measures better than what they show and I'm using the exact same colorimeter (i1 Dsiplay2) and measurement software (Eye-One Match 3). Unfortunately all you can take from their measurements is that it only reflects the characteristics of the SEC5441 and the AUO105C that they had their hands on. I do love the fact that they take the time to measure displays. I think their reviews kick lots of others out there square in the nutz.

 

I've had both. I like the AUO better. Just seems brighter and sharper. Mind playing tricks maybe, but I'm happy with the AUO and that's all that counts here really. Probably be trying out the calibration schemes some have come up with for the AUO.

 

How can I tell which screen I have?

All I know is, IT IS REALLY DAMN BRIGHT ON FULL IT HURTS MY EYES LOL.

I usually keep it on the lowest or next to the lowest setting possible and it's great.

 

Open up Device Monitor, look at the properties of the Monitor, then you should see a code. Google that and you can find out which screen you have.

 

AUO105C = AUO
SEC5441 = Samsung
LGD0206 = LG
LGD021E = LG

 

Wow, you even listed the unicorn LG panel. I wonder how that one compares to the others, I haven't even seen a post by someone claiming to own one.

 

Only one owner has reported one if I recall correctly.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m11x/494284-m11x-screen-quality-discussion-9.html#post6607941

His take on the quality compared to other panels:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m11x/494284-m11x-screen-quality-discussion-8.html#post6600273

 

Hmmm... actually that guy's LG wasn't really intended for the M11x.

The first LG that has was reported here was an LGD021E.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m11x/499610-so-ya-dell-tech-coming-tomorrow-2.html

I think I/we had assumed that he'd had the entire LCD assembly replaced, but reading this post again it's possible that he simply had the panel itself replaced. Which would explain why we've only seen these two reports of LG panels in the M11x.

Hmmm...

 

According to his comparisons, the Samsung is the worst panel of the bunch. Since he mentioned the LG has a similar black level to the Samsung, and because there's a big difference in contrast between the Samsung and AUO panels, it seems like the AUO could be considered the king of the cheap panels.

EDIT: That's a very good theory. Since the 11.6" Dell Mini uses the same bunch of panels, perhaps Alienware at least chose what they deemed the best. The Samsung panels seem to get rarer, so perhaps there's a real consistency now with Alienware mostly using AUO panels.

 

There have been enough reports from owners who have had both stating that they favored the Samsung over the AUO that I don't think we can safely say anything like that.

 

If the AUO does at least stay consistent in its production line, then as long as the AUO really does have a much better contrast ratio than the Samsung, then it might be the best of the bunch after a quick calibration. The others who compared it may have been too distracted by the general improvement of a warm display over a cool display, never calibrating either.

 

That's just it. We've heard from people with multiple AUOs that they aren't consistent.

 

I can attest that I with my two AUO's sat side-by-side and tweaked for hours to get them identical, and it was a lost cause. The R1's AUO had better contrast and gamma, the R2's AUO in my case just couldn't match it. Oddly, even with the profile you posted, the R1 seemed to do a bit better on off-angle viewing than the R2, again, just a minor variation to my eyes.