M11x - Issues with gaming lockups and crashes - Discussion thread

We need to reach out to owners of other notebooks with the 335 to see if this is something they're experiencing. Here are some others based on info at notebookcheck.net.

Asus N82JQ
Asus N82JV
mySN QMG6
Hasee A560-i7
Asus N73JN-TY056
Asus N53JN-SX029D

All of these other notebooks are using a different CPU/chipset, btw.

The thing that puzzles me is why it would appear that the R1 isn't suffering from this on any games. If that's true and it turns out that this isn't happening to any of the other notebooks that sport a 335 and it's not happening on all R2s then... are we looking at a rash 335s that don't reliably play nice with the R2's QS57 chipset?

Man this is a puzzling problem...

 

We need AW engineering to capture one of these motherboards that have been replaced so that they can reproduce this problem in-house. I'll see if ChrisM thinks that's doable. For those of you who are posting on the AW forum about this issue, could you please ask about the potential for doing this there as well?

 

This is just a theory. and of course, im not very techy but im still gonna give it a shot. I don't think the 335m is actually defective. i think the drivers/optimus creates these freezes by trying to switch video cards. I mean, even tho the program is whitelisted and even if everything is set to high performance, it seems like the only thing that makes the most sense as to why when u play a game on low settings it still creates a freeze (just takes longer).

That would explain slicks issue being fixed with new drivers, the driver specifically kept the gpu's from switching. And i think slowing down the gpu solves it because its possible the laptop attempts to momentarily change when its running too fast? (thats a stretch since mass effect will run 10x faster than medieval 2) but then again it could be the older game means less compatibility with optimus.

 

Yes, I have been running un-overclocked and it is definitely running on the nvidia gpu (I can confirm this because I turned ambient occlusion on and multisampling for Guild Wars to offset the fact that there are no shaders. So far I've had no problems. I'm gonna continue to play and see if I can reproduce a freeze... so far I've been unable to.

 

But new or different drivers hasn't ever fixed this for anyone. My particular situation with The Witcher doesn't point to that necessarily since so much on my system has changed in the 6 months it's been since I was experiencing it.

Compatibility with drivers and a given game would make sense ONLY if every single R2 owner were having the same problems for a given game. That's not been the case. I'm not really sure how this can be a driver issue.

 

For me, the 266.58 drivers create freezes in Starcaft II, where the the 260.99 work fine. I can't explain why this is... I've tried completely clean installs of the 266.58 drivers with driversweeper, and it's clear that the GT335M doesn't like these drivers on my system.

the 266.58 drivers also create shader issues with Left 4 Dead 1 & 2, and make the game quite awful to look at. Only by reducing your shaders to Medium is the game even playable without crashing. These are crashes though, not freezes.

Some people have had lots of luck with the 266.58 drivers but they are a nightmare for my M11x R2 for whatever reason. I don't know why... I would need someone else with an identical setup as me to test them on the same games to get a more accurate idea of what's going on here.

it's a shame though, because on the games that use the 266.58 drivers correctly, the FPS are noticeably higher than the 260.99 drivers.

 

OK, I just wanted to be clear whether or not you were combining two potential "fixes" - the -noshaders along with the underclock. Always good troubleshooting practice to attempt one thing at a time.

 

I forget to mention that I bought two M11X R2, both with the same configuration, same software (windows7 64bits and Wow, nothing else).

The issue only happens in one of them, the other runs perfect with WOW, only two crashes (completly hung the laptop) after playing 6 hours.

Its a random issue, i hope dell/allienware face the problem seriously and soon.

 

By "this issue" you mean:

* Playing a game.
* The game locks, audio often still playing.
* The rest of the system is still accessible and functioning.
* The game executable is not able to be killed by any means.
* Any applications that utilize the 335 cannot be run.
* Nvidia control panel isn't accessible.
* 335 driver pukes.
* The only option at this point is a forced a shutdown of the system.

Just making sure we're on the same page.

 

So wait.... both laptops have freezes though?

 

He said one does, the other doesn't.

EDIT: Or... yeah, his statement is a little confusing.

 

Dell is now sending me a new HDD and new motherboard for my 1 MONTH OLD m11x r2.

I really hope this fixes my locking up issue. Unlike most people in this thread I experience complete system lockups sporadically all of the time (like even when I am surfing the internet or just running a patcher for a game).

 

Hey Slickie88, out of curiosity, do you consider Witcher to be particularly taxing on the 335? I am currently only playing two games based off Cryptic's engine and I have yet to have any issues, that and Batman: AA which I was even able to run the Physx with TS, overclocking and EVGA's GPU oc tool. The only other game I play right now is BF:BC2 but I haven't done a marathon session on the R2. Is this question of the 335 more related to particularly GPU-intensive games in your opinion?

 

The Witcher isn't particularly taxing. I'm pretty sure it used Bioware's Aurora engine though.

 

Well.

I have a game that's causing this specific type of crash now.

Torchlight.

 

Whats the issue? Check this for reference -

Fixing Torchlight errors, config problems, crashes, freezes, sound and install errors | Gaming News Link

 

I've got 16 hours logged running Torchlight on my R2. First 15 hours were problem free. Two times in the last hour of play it locked.

* Game locks.
* I'm able to get the Taskbar started in order to kill the torchlight.exe process.
* The game window quits and audio stops. however the torchlight.exe task is still running and cannot be killed by any means whatsoever. Commandline attempts fail. Process Explorer, taskmanger, they all fail.
* A forced shutdown is the only means of killing it. Attempts at a graceful shutdown will sit there for eternity. When I had this happen with The Witcher I left it for 10 hours and it just sits there at the Windows is shutting down screen.

Problem #6 on the site you posted is as close as it gets to describing this crash, but I'm doubtful that it's this very specific type of crash. In any event there's no known fix/workaround listed there.

I've created a dump file for torchlight.exe that I'll run through one of the dmp file analysis utils later this evening. Event logs might show some useful bits as well.

 

@slickie:
Maybe its just coding. I cant stand the constant crashes (not all of the time but quite often) with Fallout: New Vegas. game.exe takes a dive and closes. Thanks Bethesda. Not just on the 11x but on my 17x and on my desktop.

 

I've tried really hard to find any 3D Benchmark or anything which anyone can download and use free so we can simplify the diagnosis. I did not find anything that crashes for me, though. Heaven didn't freeze for me.

Sorry I seemed to overreact ealier. I was just a little angry that after 35 pages (+12 now) it should be clear that this is not an issue we can solve. It's not overheating, installation problem and no, it's not the coding* (Bethesda is know for that quality you stated ) of the game - those exhibiting this specific freezing behaviour do that only on the m11xr2 (and, I suppose, other notebooks with the 335m). And again, Dell confirmed the issue, and stated there is no solution, but maybe a later driver or bios update could fix this. In short: it's not simply a setting or other configuration we can influence.

I still think it's production issues, which would also explains the different experiences (more or less common) with this issue.

I've really tried everything humanly possible, and I am a techie.
Not to interrupt this. Just saying where I came from.


Someone was asking if the 4xxm line was also exhibiting this behaviour. I had a guildmate (also techie) check this with EQ2, and it did not freeze on him where it did for me.


My attorney has contacted Dell with a deadline to fix this (whereafter they'll have to take it back or go to court about this). No feedback so far, but it's too early.


* Okay, it could be the coding related to a driver issue, but that's also out of our - and the game developer's - hands.

 

Now that you have a crash could you test some other games as well?

Since this is absurd we might as well test the possibility of this being a degraded state of some driver or something.

Test Witcher again?

As an example, I never noticed this when i played through SC2 but after LOTRo and Lineage2 started crashing i tested SC2 again and it crashed.

Might be something that reaches a point where its prone to cause crashes.

 

Sorry about my english :S

Only one of them has the issue, another one doesnt have it.
Computer A. Have the issue
Computer B. Runs perfect

I'll try to explain... in a month, only two crashes in Computer B but, that crashes arent the issue we're talking about
Computer A has the issue.

Both computers were bought the same day, with the same config and only have Wow installed, im trying to isolate the problem but its completly random. The only thing that has improved the perfomance of the computer A is installing Kopicha's drivers, it makes less freezes than before (average frequency with Kopicha's = 1 freeze/three days, 6 hours playing per day, i installed kopichas 15 days ago more or less)

- repeat, sorry, im an english dissaster -

 

I just had a game crash on the r1 when playing genesis AD, the screen freezes and the in game sound loops. So I had to restart the laptop by pressing the power button down for like 10 sec. This has only happened once so far on this laptop, is it something to be worried about or just happens from time to time?

Btw, posted here cuz the sticky thread is name r2

 

Had my system lock up about 3 times so far. Once while backing up hard drive (a vertex 2 ssd) to a external. Twice while trying to download a podcast.

 

Tech support guy just called me to tell me he was going to be here in 20-30min. He never called beforehand to setup any kind of appointment or anything.... I guess I should be glad for the quick service, but talk about inconvenience.

 

Been running for 48 hours the clock lowered down to 425. No lockups at all. I am going to reach out to Alienware support and update them. At the least they can provide a workaround until an update/recall can be determined.

 

Solving the problem isn't the only focus here. Identifying exactly what the problem is has to come first. That's still a possibility on our end.

That remains to be seen. We certainly aren't seeing it the the R1.

What exactly did Dell confirm? That they can reproduce this in-house? I don't think I've seen any further information from you on what Dell has or hasn't done/seen/tested/etc.

Again, if we can pinpoint the issue, THEN whoever is responsible for fixing the issue can do so. I'm not saying we'll ever get anywhere with this, but it certainly doesn't hurt to have another set or 3 or 8 of "techie" eyes on it.

 

please let me know what alienware says.

 

All right, so we established there is a problem.

I have my alienware m11x R2 for 4 months now.

How about fixing the issue?

Am I waiting 4 more months before I can use it to play the games I want?

 

The problem can't be fixed until we know what the source of the problem is. Right now it would appear that underclocking the 335 keeps this specific type of lockup from happening. The more people we can get to verify that this in fact works the better chance we can demonstrate the problem to AW or nvidia. At that point the ball is squarely in their court.

 

Update on EVGA Precision, 427 core clock 1024 shader clock memory 790.

Everquest 1, at default gpu clock speed without evga precision one lock up every half hour using nividia GPU- probably a total of 8 hours before i gave up.

Everquest 1 with EVGA precision 1 hour tuesday no lock ups. 2 hours wednesday no lock ups, 2.5 hours today no freezes-all with nvidia gpu.

 

I've been talking with Chris over at Dell and I'm forwarding him all of what we have found. I'm also giving him the link for this thread. He seems to be willing to listen to what's going on.... he's also an engineer at Dell so I think he's got some expertise in this area (I hope)

 

Honestly, customers are not beta testers. Analyzing this is taking it too far, it's 'not working' and (at least in my country) you have rights for cases like this.

And seemingly not even on all R2's. That's why I suggest production issues.

Okay, imagine a technical case with dell, take everything I wrote in this forum and more, imagine around 10 mails + reply then Dell saying they don't have a solution and maybe a later driver or bios update can fix this.

It's just.... what information more can I give other than 'forget it'? As stated, I have deep pc knowledge and seriously, this is a case for my curiosity but I only found how it can be influenced, not the exact location of the issue. Which wouldn't help us anyway, btw. As far as we know it's related to the 335m and certain DirectX versions.
But ask away, if you want! I'll do my best to answer.

Well, no, it doesn't hurt. Although I am really trying to spare others the effort I went through.

It's simpler. DELL is responsible for selling it like this (no matter whose parts are the exact problem, or software). Again, local legislation may vary, but essentially what I am trying to get across is don't put up with this (concentrating more effort in annoying DELL with this). It's not an issue of a user doing something wrong, but of a defective product. You paid money for it.

I believe that only if we complain loud enough something will be done (if the issue is not to be fixed along the way). Otherwise, why bother with a few complaining customers or admit an issue publically.

 

Ive set my clocks to your specific settings and im starting testing asap.

 

I have confirmed with Chris at Dell that he is forwarding this issue with the shaders to the driver team.

EDIT: and Strider... I understand you're pissed, but I think we may have gotten a fix for this thing! If you can get Everquest to run with EVGA Precision we'll know beyond a doubt that the shader speeds are what's causing these games to fail.

 

If underclocking is going to avoid (I won´t dare say solve) this problem, I have 2 questions:

- How is underclocking going to effect the performance of a game (fps for instance)?
- What´s the potential danger of underclocking (hardware damage)?

 

I'm having some freezing problems with Medieval II: Total War (after finally getting it to work with good FPS). I'm overclocking both the CPU (With Throttlestop) and the GPU with MSI Afterburner.

 

That's probably your problem right there. Set everything back to default and try again. If you're desperate to overclock, make sure you're working in small increments. Don't just jump to a high frequency because you've seen other people have their systems there.

Isn't the M11x CPU capable of being overclocked via the BIOS anyway? If so, that's where you should be doing it. Software is fine for GPUs.

 

I read that overclocking through the BIOS and not using Throttlestop doesn't gain much of a difference in performance.

I'll try setting everything back to normal and trying again.

 

There's an infinitesimally small number of us, like yourself a while back, who are interested enough in this problem to the extent that we're attempting to see if we can determine what the root cause is. Nothing wrong with that. Yes, everyone is still entitled to pursue whatever actions they wish against Dell. If the ultimate goal is to force Dell or Nvidia or whoever is at fault to understand the problem and then to fix it by whatever means then it is imperative that they have the means of doing so. If we can provide them good data to work with then that's a good thing.

Absolutely agree.

I was asking what details you could provide us in your working the issue with Dell. You made a number of statements that I thought indicated that they may have been able to either reproduce the problem or had otherwise seen it as something that could possibly be fixed by a BIOS update. Perhaps it was nothing more than they scratched their heads and couldn't offer and more help with trying to troubleshoot it. In either case details on what those communications entailed would be very helpful.

Anything is possible at this point. You've read that some of us are having success with lowering the clock speed of the 335, right? Of the people who have tested this, not one person has had a subsequent lockup. Not a fix by any means, but it certainly focuses the problem squarely on a very specific aspect of the 335. That's huge. That's light years better than "we think it's a driver or maybe some magic combination of drivers/game settings/directx/etc" That's something that can provide the engineers a lead to work from.

You've characterized your efforts in pinpointing the root cause as having encompassed everything humanly possible. No one's contesting your troubleshooting skills. However, it's my belief that collectively we can and have taken things a bit further.

Yep. No denying that.

Again, yep. Got it.

You're preaching to the choir there. I've already spent 7 months making sure that Dell was very much aware of the wonderful hinge they designed. That wasn't likely going to get fixed without it being a front and center issue here on this forum. However these very specific lockups that we're seeing are a different animal. The engineers at Dell, or whoever is ultimately responsible for fixing it in the end need data. They need to be able to reproduce the problem in a relatively reliable way in order to troubleshoot it. Whether that means capturing a system that is impacted by the problem or us finding some way that it's easy for them to do on their own. That is where we can help.

 

You're absolutely right. Underclocking should not be considered a fix, but rather a workaround and as a clue as to what's wrong.

Very easy to try it and see for yourself.

No danger at all. None. Zero. Nadda.

 

Well I guess I can contribute again, as the freezing occurred as I was playing League of Legends.

It occurred about midway through a game (25 minutes) but with breaks between games, of about 5 minutes.

There wasn't much load on the system, and my character was killing minions.

 

This confirms that Medieval II has freezing problems consistently, (both me and brokenkeyboard) and it possibly has something to do with overclocking something. I'm OC'd to 160 with or without TS it freezes. I might run some tests to see how it runs at stock, but I'll have to re-download the game at this point in time though. If you find a fix brokenkeyboard lemme know.

*glad you got the game to run fine now* (except the freezing issue lol)

Really hoping a fix comes in soon, just in case Shogun 2 comes across the same problem (if it even runs on this laptop)

 

Underclocking won't kill a game's fps unless you want everything at ultra settings and 100fps.
No hardware damage, hardware damage is from OVERclocking it xD





*MORE TESTS*

EVGA Precision

Default settings on WoW

Tried lowering all graphics settings to minimum, worked for 4hours, better than normal for me. then froze

Tried raising graphics settings to almost max, worked for 3hours still i stepped in TB (lots of peoples at one things going pew pew) then it froze =/

*

420
1010
862

Worked for 6 hours straight, took a break for lunch, got back on it for another 6 hours no problems on close to minimum settings


Same thing except on max settings, ran pretty good, average of 50+fps in non crowded areas (underclocked max settings ftw) ran same, got a few glitches when moving into big crows (expected that)


*EVEN LOWER!

389
933
862 (kept the same to make it a non variable)

Tried this today and surprisingly it was the same results as above, maybe a lower fps by 1-5 averaged but nothing that i noticed


I think these graphics cards are to beast so they must be toned down to work xD
I dont understand why this works so dont ask i just know it does XD

 

Try downloading EVGA precision and using these settings on it

390 Core Clock
935 Shader Clock
850 Memory Clock


Seems to be helping some people to actually Underclock their gpu

 

Just curious, could it possibly be turbo boost thats the culprit? I wish i could run tests myself but i deleted medieval II the only that was freezing. Gonna redownload it on steam but it'll take a while.

 

Thanks guys for all the clear answers. I just downloaded EVGA precision and applied Bobtheflea´s settings (420/1010/862). I´ll start the game and see how it goes and report back.

 

1,5 hours of WoW on high settings (just under ultra), hardly noticed a performance drop tbh. No freezes. I dont have more time to test it, I´ll try it tomorrow again.

 

EVGA Precision 427, shader 1024, memory 790

3 Hours of dead space 2-no more freezes

2.5 more hours of Everquest1-no more freezes

Its a shame we have to use a 3rd party program to compensate for alienware/nvidias unstable GPU but at least it works. It is actually a very stable computer aside from the freezes at default gpu clock, I never get normal lock ups outside of the game freezing, my nintendo wii on the other hand locks up every frekn day, it's only 3 months old.

On a side note, does anyone know if evga precision needs to always start up with windows to adjust the gpu speed or is it a set one time and forget thing?

 

Just had my motherboard and HDD replaced on my 1 month old m11x YESTERDAY. Didn't even really touch it until about an hour ago. Started transferring files from my xHDD to my new internal HDD. About 20min. into the transfer (while also watching YouTube) my system LOCKED UP AGAIN!

I am furious! Tried calling alienware tech support just to get the phone hung on me automatically because their systems are down. Their systems were down last week too :\

 

There is a button on the bottom left side (under the graphy things) that says "apply at windows startup" so just click it