Moving from M11x r1 to r3: Will I still want my aging gaming desktop?

ether way stock vs overclock is not a fair comparison, better to evaluate the complete potential of the machine rather then creating bias scores

you dont have to be all defensive about which which M11x model is better. All i get from these threads/remark is R1 owners being all defensive and claiming that theirs is better then a R2 and R2 owners doing the same to R3 and all it shows is your immaturity and failure to accept facts that their system is no longer the best it once were. I've owned a R1 and a R3 while my mate has a R2

 

The R2 is doing very well as the top score is held by an i5 R2. Add a few hundred more points for an i7 and the difference would be even more slight.

That doesn't change the fact the R3 holds the highest score but it does change the reason why it does- because highly clocked i7s are missing in action.

You discredit 3DMark yet suggest nothing constructive for comparisons. What do you suggest as an alternative benchmark that is playable, repeatable and available?

There is no severe overclocking or voltmodding. The CPU overclocks haven't broken through 200BCLK like on desktop boards and gains are all <50%. That's well within the ordinary instead of severe.
There is no voltmod either, only the BIOS VGPU mod that adds ~5% more voltage to the GPU. More insignificant then severe.
Severe overclocking/voltmodding is LN2, volt/cap mods and additional VRMs.

But the R2 really wasn't faster then the R1 at launch until Throttlestop came about. Anyone could have done the pinmod on their R1 and say it was significantly faster then an R2 than. Instead, TS made overclocking have actual gains and that made the R2 stand head and shoulders above the R1.

 

Eh? I get about 7-8 hours regular use with R1. I don't think you can beat the ULV Arrandale for power consumption.

 

You yourself have not suggested any 3dmark alternative, why are you lambasting me for not suggesting one? I'm merely pointing out 3dmark isn't a viable test of gaming. It's a viable test of 3dmark, nothing more, nothing less. It may resemble gaming, however, it's not a game. Graphics + Physx/Bullet do not make a game (they certainly are parts of a game, however). Since this thread seems to have started out talking about the viability of gaming systems, why not?

Any amount of voltmodding on a mobile device designed to run off of a battery can be considered severe voltmodding. If you don't like the idea, than too bad. Not only that, you point out this is, "not voltmodding, yet it's software voltmodding? (no matter what people call it, a BIOS is still software)" BTW, you can still kill hardware via software voltmodding. No soldering skills needed. Then to start it all off, you compare laptop overclocking to desktop overclocking!? These are laptops - with all the inherent functions of design and form - not desktops.

Basically, you couldn't resist mentioning you had to mod the BIOS registers of the i5 R2 with Throttlestop, a program not avalible at launch, to get it faster than the OC'd C2D later on. For that matter, even bring in something else that wasn't done even by the R2 launch: modding the R1's clockgen. For that matter, why even bother limiting ourselfs to that; why not mention this is no different than the whining experienced by R2 owners by R1 owners near the R1 launch? The same ones who, blased the i5 for being slow vs their OC'd C2D, and hated Optimus since it didn't support certain games on launch, while the R1 suffered from old Intel IGP drivers corrupting flash content in more recent web browsers? The only viable solution the the latter being justified as a "reasonable sacrafice," (nVidia discrete mode/battery life) or a later, yet short lived, community attempt to create hybrid drivers out of Intel/nVidia's mess of a mobile driver program?







Finally, to cap it all off.... really? You are gonna support* overclocking the living stuffing (the fastest BLCK maxxed out at ~183 or so on the R2) out of the last gen platform over a current generation CPU that's already faster at stock (and turbo boosts better; has a faster IMC [probably really only matters more for IGP performance]; and is Sandy Bridge manuf&arch), has a faster GPU, and already has some other benefits (USB3.0, Mic array, GigE - none of the previous models had any of this), all decent considerations in a potential desktop replacement role? The R2 is powerful. That doesn't make the R3 a valueless buy, as you have implied in this thread. I'd recommend the R3 over the R2, since you already have to OC the R2 to get to R3 speeds.

If you really wanted to know, the highest 3dmark01 score (submitted less than a year ago - well after the i7 Nehalams launched) is held by a C2D. Does that render all i7 920, or even the i7 2600k, CPUs weaker? Or does that make 3dmark01 - an application, like any other, that runs faster or slower on certain systems for just about any reasonable reason, nothing more than an application specific score that may not have any reflection on another application or game? Just because a single R2 currently holds a *slightly* higher score in 3dmark after overclocking to the max, doesn't make it actually faster than the R3 model in gaming, or even general application use.

 

Don't try to turn your omission on me, I was pointing out your mistake. Now that I think about it, I think a trio of Far Cry 2, Crysis and Resident Evil 5 benchmarks work very well as they each load the CPU and GPU differently. And you still haven't suggested an alternative, still discrediting 3DMark.

Why would it be considered severe voltmodding just because it's running off a battery? Do you also describe all undervolting as severe because it's also running off a battery, no matter how small or large the gains are? To call such small gains severe be a gross overstatement and would go against the definition of severe as defined by Dictionary.com:

It's not voltmodding in my definition- that is reducing resistance on the feedback pin so voltage output will be increased. I'm not going to call it software voltmodding either, only you did. It's deceptive as it implies it can be controlled by software such as Afterburner or TriXX when it's really limited to a hardcoded .95v from a BIOS flash. I don't want to confuse voltmodding with the BIOS VGPU mod as it'll require less explaining later.

While that is true, it is false in this case. The mod gains are too insignificant. I can't even make it lose more then 5 minutes of game time on battery let alone activate OVP/OCP or get a heat shutdown. I'm yet to see any reports of anything like that happening and expect to wait years, well past the R2's ability to play games.

What's your point? Laptops use the same technology as desktops. The M11x R2 architecturally is no different then a desktop H55/32nm Arrandale combo. If it can be overclocked, someone will enable that. In the M11x's case, I failed to push it out of it's "inherent functions of design and form" as nobody needed notebook coolers, larger heatsinks or open fan grilles. With overclocking on the M11x, the inherent functions of design and form are preserved thus, the architecture of the system is very similar to a desktop.

I feel it's very important to mention that the R2 didn't blaze a trail over the R1 OC at launch and caused much conflict and division about it's performance. For a while, anything could have shifted that balance of power. History is important, should it not be remembered, it will be repeated. Had I entered the scene earlier, maybe it would be different. But that's history now.

I doubt there would have been many R2 owners at the R1 launch.

That is irrelevant to my point about performance being better later.

I already do support overclocking the living stuffing out of both the R1 and R2. To abandon it as you imply I should would betray the users of those mods. I would move onto the R3 if it was possible to overclock the living stuffing out of, too.

I have this:

I'll update it when it's done.

That was my point.

I never implied the R3 was a valueless buy in this thread. Rather the opposite, I have clearly reinforced the notion that the R2 is still capable and quite a good value purchase.

Going off topic. But no. Your example works very well in this case however, as another reason emerges for it holding the top spot- lack of interest. That configuration is relatively old as with the benchmark. It wouldn't be hard for something modern to take that spot. Perhaps lack of interest from owners of more powerful hardware aren't using that old benchmark anymore. That parallels with this situation- owners of the more powerful R2 configurations aren't appearing as they should and taking point. Does that make all the R2s appear weaker?

Please show me that *slightly* higher score.

The irony is that you have brought more negative points about the R3 then I did.

 

NICE!! What RAM are you using? Did you use the recent Thaiphoon or an old one on a 32bit system?

I still haven't got round to doing this yet!

 

Wow! Well that's great. I hadn't seen such high battery numbers posted before. Anyway, the OP already had an R1 and mentioned he was looking into an R3. This has certainly turned into a verbose thread!

While everyone can argue about which system is better, it doesn't change the fact that OP would have to do *some* modding to make it match the R3's level, and would have to buy a used system. I personally don't mind used if I can take a look at it in person, but I wouldn't want the potential hassle of playing the Dell refurb lottery.

Oh, and the potential hinge issues of course... yeah Dell will replace them, but that's just another hassle I'd rather avoid. To me these are just practical considerations to keep in mind.

 

And you are still lambasting me for not suggesting a viable 3dmark alternative, somthing you seem fixated on until it's no longer convinient.

So the gains are now definative of severity? Here's to clear it up, since it appears you need a dictionary: We're running off of laptops with specifically chosen ULV parts, which stands for Ultra Low Voltage. Ever wonder why it called that? Because it's one of the lowest binned voltage parts Intel offers. Running it's voltage out of spec is overvolting. Running a laptop's voltage out of spec is severe overvolting (before you wonder, there are TDP & Power binned parts in Intel's Desktop and Server cataloug). You don't like the definition? Too bad. You never liked it to begin with, despite that fact, that is what you are doing.

You are modding the voltage. How hard is that gonna get around? Voltage = modified. Therefore..... voltmodding. Just because you cannot modifiy it without changing the BIOS, doesn't make it any less of a voltmod. "You're definition," and, "my definition..." I have a feeling this can continue in a spiral.

Now, you're mincing words. "while that is true, it is false in this case." While also mentioning the voltmod is insignificant...

Read the above on ULV parts. The architecture of my mousetrap is very similar to a catapult. That doesn't make it one by design. Similar with laptops. Different scale, different design, different form. Strangely enough, that makes it different.

It was faster at launch. The i7 variant was more or less untouchable. Whether or not you were, "on the scene," wouldn't of changed that.

Mincing words, again. And if it helps you, there were few R1 owners at the R1 launch, too You know what I mean. And if you don't, then this will only go on.

It's irrelevant to you. Not irrelevant to reality.

Now it's betrayal? So this entire spiel on supporting the older and normally slower R2 over the R3 is based on sometwisted sense of loyalty!?

And I have an i7 640UM that won't get over 158BLCK, despite having some nice HyperX1866 (pulled from my SB mITX desktop - P8H67-I Deluxe uses SO-DIMMS, just as well for me; off topic strange note, the kingston website doesn't list the RAM, despite it being avalible in retail outlets). (previously, the stock RAM I had in the laptop was limiting it to something ridiculously low).

Great, more mincing words. Lets start taking entire phrases of mine out of context. BTW, for any concerned (there probably are none), I'm not taking any of DavyGT's quotes out of context - he himself arranged his responses this way.

You did. By deliberately demoting the R3 and promoting the R2 - which is no longer produced - you are doing just that.

Or, there simply aren't more of these "powerful R2 setups." Why aren't there more R2 i7 owners comming up with faster numbers? Or is what you are doing an abnormality, and not the norm for what's capable out of the R2? The other reason why the C2D holds the top spot, is due to it's architecture, gets a better reaction from 3dmark01 for no real good reason. Whether it's the developeers themselves optimizing their benchmark for one specific platform, or simply a, "lack of interest" (the score I listed was subbmited by one of HWBot's top overclockers and benchers, for whatever reason, he chose SLI GTX275 and an old C2D over the (then avalible) GTX480 and i7 980X. For a lack of interest, there are even i7 2600k/3870X2 setups , and i7 965/GTX295 QuadSLI setups submitting lower scores!! How about that.

Read this thread.

That strange. Many of the negative points were brought about, either directly or by implication, by you. I figured out what I should do next time. Do what you do to my quotes - ignore anything that simply doesn't fit a view (the R3 having GigE, USB3, & 2 mic array - which none of the previous ones did). Continuing on what you do, take quotes out of context and to cap it all off, the perenially present this quote at the end of a string of quotes taken out of context, "lets stop this before it gets out of hand. Think of the kids who read this forum.... the kids!!"

 

you dont understand how binning, ULV, TDP and architecture work do you?

 

lol i was just about to ask this.

 

I understand how they work. You don't understand this is a laptop forum, do you? Lower voltage binning doesn't guarentee better overclocking. Just look at Intel Xeon parts (with socket compat. with desktop parts) and 95W AMD Thubans for some examples.

EDIT: and secondly, why even bother only drawing out one part of a post? Respond to the whole thing, or not at all (IMO). The laptop we are talking about has a limited cooling system with ULV parts for a reason. Keep on spewing keywords, "some guy," you might sound like you know what they mean after a while.

 

I like how you take what someone says and run with it in your own assumed direction.

I said as little as possible on pourpse to prove a point to my self about your "logic" without having to pointlessly argue your entire post (since you wont get it anyway) and continue to ruin this poor guys thread even further.

Thanks for ammusing me.

OP keep your desktop. it will still out power your R3 in games. but its nice to have both anyway.