Reasons for buying M11x...convince me I'm right.

Hey guys, first time posting on this forum.

I want to get a laptop that I can use for displaying on my 46" LED TV downstairs but also be able to game a bit with good mobility. I looked at the laptops available in 13"/14" screens but here is the problem - almost none of them had balanced system specs for productivity and gaming. I would find i5's paired with low end graphics such as 310M and 5470 (or lower), which doesn't make much sense to me.

I've found a couple of exceptions, but then these also had quirks

1. Acer 3280TG - i5/5650/good cooling but that unknown Acer build quality and most importantly I don't know when it is going to be available in U.S. I need the laptop by late Jun / early July at the latest, since I will be traveling for 2 months this late summer.
2. Lenovo Y460 - also i5/5650 but runs a little bit hot and again the build quality isn't the greatest.
3. ENVY 14 - another great i5/5650 combo, solid chassis, keyboard and looks to have very good quality screen. One potential issue is with that 1600x900 I wonder if 5650 which is only slightly better than 335M would be able to play games at native resolution.
4. ASUS K42JV - i5/335M, but I found no reviews so far. This is available on newegg.

As you have figured out, I don't have a problem shelling out extra $100 for better build quality because that will last me that much longer. I have a Dell Latitude I bought back in 03 that still works no problem (other than it being too slow now).

Things I was impressed with M11x is that the system seem to run cooler than even the bigger 14" laptops with same hardware (which is directly related to longevity and leaving room for OC'ing), and better battery life than most of the laptops I've listed above. 11.6" screen is a tad bit smaller but if I'm at home I've got either 22" LCD or 46" LED so that is not a problem. I also like the chassis which isn't as flimsy as others, which comes at the cost of weight but that is okay. 4.5 lbs is still plenty lightweight.

I also have a desktop at home, so going with bigger 15/16"+ laptops didn't make sense to me. No matter how much I spend laptops will be behind desktops with less performance.

These are the reasons I'm considering M11x R2 - what I need you guys to tell me is that if I'm completely full of you-know-what or not. I'm not a hardcore gamer who has to have 1 million FPS all the time but I do like to run latest games at medium detail / 720p.

 

Well from all these, I think it's pretty clear that the one that gives you the most buck for performance is, 3820.
Not only does it have a much more powerful i5 / i7, than the one in m11x, which will make a significant difference in CPU bound games(borderlands, GTA4, Total War, MMORPGs, Source engine based games etc...) its also packed with a 5650 that seems to be running like an icerock. the numbers in the Acer forum are almost unbeliveable.
And they managed to put it in a 13'' chassis.

I've been messing around with some timeline laptops. I tried a 5810 the day before yesterday, which is basically a bigger 3820! pressing down on the middle of keyboard, gives so much flex that I thought it was broken.. it could be defective store model, but it left a bad impression in my mouth. Besides that, some reports of nudgy display. I still want to try 3820, but I took am questioned by the build quality.
But you get your moneys worth in power..

Envy 14 would be a good bet. You could always lower some of the things from native to a lower res, in some of the newer games.
Don't know anything about the Asus.



And for the things you said about a mix of "almost none of them had balanced system specs for productivity and gaming"

I'm going to suggest Sony Vaio Z. It's price kills, you don't have upgradeable SSDs, and if you don't want to play in non-native resolutions your going to be in a world of hurt with the 1920x display.



Just remember that the CULV processor in m11x is weaker than the other notebooks you listed. It's not a full hardcore version. it's a weaker energy saving version. performance will be uneven based on certain games.

 

Couldn't put it better myself. If ther is M13x with i7-6xxM series and little better GPU, then there is a whole difference story.

 

Thanks for the comments please keep them coming.

I guess I will have to see just how worse i7 640UM is compared to regular i5 mobile CPU's... I do realize that I have to give up something for battery life so with that in mind I don't think it will be too bad. I just looked at the comparison of mobile i5/i7 CPUs on Intel.com and it looks to me that i7 640UM OC'ed shouldn't be too much slower than i5 430M based on the clock speeds. i5 still has more memory bandwidth however.

Right now I can get 10% EPP and $100 off EPP discount for Alienware, which was another plus for me, so cost difference isn't that bad especially compared to ENVY or ASUS laptops.

I do like the Sony VAIO Z series but the price is way out of my price range. For that I could build another desktop PC to retire my current Core2Duo / 9800GTX in addition to buying M11x.

 

Sony VAIO Z... great choice... fries eggs on the GPU while you're gaming as well ^^

m11x is small, but the advantage is that you can actually use it nicely on an airplane, bus, etc. I got m11x also because it has great battery life. I'm not sure how much you could squeeze from say ENVY 14. On m11x, I got 5hrs 25mins of watching 720p HDTV video. IMO m11x is overall the best Alienware laptop.

 

Yea, if using it on the plane is important, I generally find that 13" is the best that will fit comfortably. 12" and smaller are much prefer.

 

In the economy class of cross-atlantic Delta Airlines, forget about 13" unless you want it to be smashed by the fat guy moving his chair in front of you.

Seriously, I had less room than on a crappy propeller airpline that took me home from Belgium. m11x is going across the ocean this summer (yeah baby)... maybe even m17x, if I'll be able to carry it.

 

Checking the thread in the Sony forum reguarly, over heating don't seem to be a problem, and my impression is that the GPU does not run hotter than the 335m in M11x. But I have neither machine! That's just from the random temps I see posted around.

I noticed though in the notebookcheck review of Vaio Z, that they had high internal temps... But I dont seem to have seen such indication from the users in the sony forum!

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/not...-vs-sony-vaio-z-i5-comparison-benchmarks.html

After 15mins of gaming GPU @ 86 C, CPU @ 88 C max. Yeah this computer will last you a while.... not. ^^

 

haha, I don't have the system. It's just what I got from what I've read!


Seems low enough to me, considering how epic slim, and light machine is. And that it's a full i5, and not a puny SU 7300. It's not even comparable.
As far as heat goes, ain't i core processors able to handle something like up to 105 before it gets bad?

 

Interesting benchmark on that Z vs m11x - although that is with older SU7300. I wonder how it will change with i7 640UM.

 

isn't the i5 CPU in the Vaio Z also an M series(520M/540M) and not UM?
So, i5-520UM and i7-640UM on the M11xR2 should run cooler than Vaio Z.

 

double post, having internet problem, please delete/ignore.

 

Yeah that's "real" i5m CPU. Pretty sure ULV will run way cooler and give -way- better battery life.

 

I think i7 640UM OC'ed should come pretty close to regular i5 430M as far as raw clock speeds are concerned, but with extra sets of instructions and features enabled. I'd say that isn't too bad, considering it is only 18W vs 35W TDP.

 

So much truth to this, can't tell you how much of a pain it is to game with a frying pan on your lap.

 

You think so? Doesn't it also run on fewer threads or something?


And when you say "OC'ed" do you mean Turbo Boosted, or Turbo Boosted with additional OCing made by the user?

 

88deg after only 15 mins of gaming will degrade the CPU.. i'd be seriously uncomfortable with those temps. The M11x equipped with a 7300 can outperform a Vaio Z in gaming benchmarks.. i will concede that the Z will smoke the M11x at pretty much everything else.

 

I went to see an Acer 3820TG today. The keyboard was unfortunately the most cheap piece of plastic I have ever touched. Overall, the machine was slim, but the build quality didn't impress me.

The M11x gives a much more solid impression. So it's going to be an M11x-R2 for me when I can finally order it... I can't believe Dell Taiwan still doesn't have it up for order...

 

Switched recently from M11xR1 (SU7300) to TimelineX 3820 (i5-450M).

• build quality is at least as good as M11x one's.
• weight and volume: the Acer wins.
• 3dmark06 cpu score and pov-ray benchmark tell me that the i5-450M is almost twice as fast

In Germany the 3820 is available yet, and the M11xR2 is much more expensive in equal configurations.

 

That one has ATI 5650 graphics and a non-ULV i5... again which I assume also reflects on the battery life.

How is that a good comparison?

Also the performance isn't *that* amazing comparing to m11x-r1 (7.3k 3DMark06 score), unless it is overclocked (9k 3DMark06). However I'd be vary of overclocking a unit with these temperatures: (C/P from http://forum.notebookreview.com/ace...nge-info-benchmarks-tweaks-mods-upgrades.html )

"My 3820TG running the i5 430m runs cool and temps are around 77-81 degrees on the CPU and maximum 82 degrees on the when running Furmark and prime95. Normal gaming the GPU normally sits at around 73 - 74 degrees. Office use the CPU is around 44-50 degrees. The exhaust ports are hot to the touch when gaming and using furymark. "

I have read only the original post, but it doesn't seem to me it's overclockable as m11x.

 

Battery life is quite good... but under load the ULV will perform a lot better. There will be an 9-cell battery, but at least it will be switchable on the go without using a screwdriver

I rely on cpu intense operations.. and that was the biggest point. I'm using the device while mobile and sold my desktop.

3820 get's definitely warmer than the M11x, but therefore it's a lot less noisy.

But regarding the 3dmark scores... you won't get 7.3k out of the M11xR1 without overclocking the GPU.

Remember the R1's BSOD-issue when overclocking the cpu. Not everyone will be able to max it out.

 

If you are serious about the build quality being as good as the m11x... then thats dissappointing.

I haven't tried m11x yet, but everyone says it has no flex, and it feels solid.

the 5810 Acer timeline I tried, felt like I could snap the keyboard off just by pressing it.

from the 4820 review; Notebookcheck: Review Acer Aspire 4820TG Timeline X Notebook

"Pro
+ Pleasant design
+ Compact and light case
+ High-quality surface
+ Comfortable touchpad
+ Long battery life
+ Good performance with programs and games
+ Good display brightness

Contra
- Clearly audible when under heavy usage
- Keyboard gives way under pressure
- Display bordering can be dirtied easily
- Glossy display results in modest viewing angles
- High black value and disappointing contrast
- Poor sound quality
- Poor placement of ports
- CPU-throttling when under heavy usage"


To me, a mediocre display and keyboard is unacceptable. whats the point of great graphics if it does not look good?
Then you could say to just use an external monitor and usb keyboard, but then I might as well just get a desktop. no freaking way.

 

The keyboard is okay but I've seen better ones (M11x for example , or my Samsung NC20).

There are better screens out there, but both... M11x and 3820... share bad screen ratings.

Regarding M11x's build quality... broken/bad hinges, keyboard scratches screen, stuck fan, improper powering down nvidia... I hope they'll fix this with R2.

4820 and 3820 share the same components, but you can't compare them directly. 3820 has a different thermal design (2nd fan instead of dvd drive), better port placement...

 

I'll wait and see 3820 for myself. But I am not optimistic about what I saw. That sort of flex belongs in 150 dollar laptop.. it was way to extreme from what I saw!

 

No, there is no flex on m11x. The only build issue that I have is the slight hinge pop in lower right corner (but it's basically 1mm and barely noticeable).

 

According to Dell's website, it says M11x R2 OC'ed can reach upto 2.66 GHz w/ i7 640UM, so I'm assuming you can overclock the CPU on top of regular turbo boost. Since these CPU / GPU run cooler in M11x, I don't think it would degrade CPU too much by OC'ing.

Yes it still has limited bus / memory bandwidth compared to i5 430M.

But if i7 640UM is even 3/4 as fast as i4 430M while having 1/2 of TDP, it would make case for a lot of people. For a lot of people who already have dedicated desktops, it does make sense.

However if this was my only computer I wouldn't even consider M11x - I'd go for 3820TG or ENVY 14 in a heart beat.

 

That unknown Acer build quality is something that keeps putting me off. I come from using mostly Business class laptop and when I buy one, I use it for a while. But most importantly I don't even know when 3280TG is going to available here in U.S, and with M11x R2 and ENVY 14 coming out at the similar time period, Acer will lose a lot of potential customers by the delayed shipment.

 

So if by your calculations that is that i7 um will be twice as powerful as 7300 su, then... then that's pretty damn significant.

 

It's out here in Denmark... I think I am going to find it, try it, and work it for a bit.

The surface seemed fine, the weight seemed cool.. screen seemed bright enough. the main thing was just the damn keyboard. seriously, it was that lol.

 

Yes, but it's still alot compared to the m11x.

I love my m11x. It's as small as a book, if I take it somewhere I usually don't need to plug it in, so I don't even have to take the adapter with me. I can use it everywhere, in a train, on a bus, even in a car (makes you feel sick though).

It has great performance IMO, with the i7 it will be even better. I can Play Dirt 2 on decent settings, I can play Dawn of War 2 almost maxed, Grid at high settings; I can play almost every game I want to play on decent settings.

If I'm not gaming, it feels as fast as my desktop. In fact, I haven't used my desktop for days; I only use it when I have work to do that requires a bigger screen, if I want to download something, or if I want to play games maxed.

The building quality is quite good, except for some issues I have, but I don't think they'll affect the lifetime of this laptop; they're purly cosmetic.


This laptop is the best laptop ever made.

 

I'm glad you're happy with it that's all that matters.

 

CPU wise, not in term of 3D gaming(meaning CPU+GPU), I'm pretty sure it's close to double the raw speed. There is a few i5-520UM benchmark out there.

 

Does anyone know anything about the Asus K42JV?

 

I agree 99%, except for the hinge issue and lower battery life. But it's a kick- lappy, that's for sure.

 

To get a 5650 equipped 3820tg in the US will cost nearly twice as much as the M11x.
Around $1200-$1300 by way of Canada as I type, perhaps more retailer choices in the near future. The M11x r1 can be found at Dell for less than $600 (refurb outlet) to $800 (before any popular discount coupons), brand new built to order. Hoping the 3820tg will get to the USA fast, and be priced better.

I would be all over the 3820tg if it was the same price, and even if priced a "little" higher. (EDIT, see end of post, as it now is).

Right now I am trying to decide.
Have had a 17" Dell Inspiron (intel PM1.8GHz) with ATi MR9700 that has performed great. However, the MR9700 lack of current shaders is stopping some current low end games from even installing. This is where the ATi equipped 3820tg has another edge over the M11x. As shown by me still trying to game 6 years later on a laptop, I would hate to not be able to install a game in the not too distant future that requires shader model 5. Sure it might run like crap, but at least it would install, which would not be possible with the M11x. Seems more futureproof.

I do primary gaming from my recliner on a HTPC with ATi 5770 (DX11 was one reason for purchase) @ 1366x768 on 50" Plasma. This laptop would be a replacement for Aspire One 8" Netbook that I take on cross country motorcycle rides (needs to fit into one side case bag of Honda ST1100), as well as replacing the 17" Dell used several hours a day Internet browsing next to my recliner. The 13" seems like a better fit for these tasks as well. My 50 year old eyes would also appreciate the larger screen size on the 3820tg. The ultralaptop would also be used at times for our bi-weekly LAN gaming parties we have here.

But for twice the price to get a 3820tg????? And questionable build quality compared to the M11x?

I have seen 3dm2k6 results posted here of over 10,000 with an overclocked 5650 in the 3820tg, so it is a nice small gaming rig, and no question it will be faster than the M11x. Also new to the 3820tg is dual fans instead of one like other TimelineX models. This allows it to run cooler and quieter, even when overclocked.

Hopefully before I decide, a M11x R3 will come out with a 12" screen to fill in the bezel, along with better competing modern graphics card. For now, the M11x R1 is still the best bang for the buck.

EDIT: Sorry for the long post. Seems the day after I posted this, I now see that the price of the competing Acer 3820TG w/HD5650 is about the same or perhaps even cheaper when the m11x is as equipped as equally as it can be. Look in the Acer section here and see the 3820TG (i5-450m) priced at $970 (US) + $75 shipping, Vs M11x R1 (SU7300) priced at $1090 including tax, both with 4 gig, and 500 gig HD. The R2 would be around $150 more. If you go with the i3 the 3820TG drops as low as $844.