After the GPU Downclocking... Do we have a CPU one? A call to M15x owners.

Dear all,

As a recent buyer of the M15x and a M15x's saga follower from day 1, it came to my attention recently that, besides the GPU Downclocking, that seems to have been fixed, some people are now noticing CPU downclocking as well.
This CPU downclocking has been seen by people that have the extreme processors, but I guess that at this time we can't exclude other processors might have it as well.
This is really annoying and really shows that Alienware did a bad job at putting this laptop together. It's more like they had to rush it out without proper troubleshooting.

Anyway... this is mainly a "call" to M15x users, to test their CPUs by stressing them and checking for temps and CPU core speeds.

For this you can download:

Prime95 to stress your CPU and make it work at full load:
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm

Orthos can only be used to stress the CPU:
http://www.overclock.net/downloads/138142-orthos.html

RMClock to check core speed and temps in a graphical kind of diplay:
http://cpu.rightmark.org/products/rmclock.shtml#rmclock

EDIT: HWmonitor is a very nice tool. I recommend using this instead of Coretemp. HWmonitor is a hardware monitoring program that reads PC systems main health sensors : voltages, temperatures, fans speed.
http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php

CPUz to check cores clock speed (and multipliers and so on.):
http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

Coretemp to follow CPU temperatures:
http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

If you turn on CPUz and Coretemp (to follow CPU clocks and temps, respectively) and then start stress testing ( EDIT: If you use RMClock you can have a quite decent graphical display that will prevent you to sit watching CPUz and Coretemp as you run the stress test), you should see the CPUs working at max speed (max multipliers and max clock speed) and they should hold forever like this. If not... then I think it's safe to say, another downclocking problem coming in the way of the M15x.

Please report your findings so that we can all clear this issue and press AW into solving existing people's problems.

Take care,
M.

EDIT
Here is the list of people that have tested their CPUs and results:

Downclocking
Newfiejudd (X9000)
tacomenace21 (x9000)
crizzler (T9300)
Pervay (x9000)
roman del castillo (not sure about CPU or Downclocking yet)
kaak (x9000)
Lessaj (X7900)
Crystak (T9300)
Milcs (T9300)
Andrewsz (X9000)
maguai70 (x9000)
ayeizajedi (x9000)
Coresong (X7900)
Evilwill32 (X9000)
Tanamerra (X9000)

No Downclocking
Impressive (T9300)
Rexibaby987 (T9300)
GRB (2.6GHz)
Demonofrazgriz (T9300)
Kshub (T9300)
Nyceys (T9300)
whizzo (T9300)
Dhoang417 (T8100)
Groove95 (T9300)
Mystik (T9300)

100% of the M15x with Extreme CPUs show problems with CPU overheating and downclocking.

 

Well my X9000 reaches 95C and Drops from 2797 mhz to 1595 mhz, multiplier from 14 to 6.

 

anyone not using an X9000 do this?

 

Doing tests right now on my t9300, no DC after 20 mins, will post pics later!

 

i think this only happens with extreme processors. since the only people that seem to be downclocking with cpu problems have the extreme processor.

 

yeah that would suck if it only affected the xtreme cause people extra for more power what good does it do if its not working for them. What sad is that it happens to me while convertering movies which is a task that uses 100% cpu but then it will get to hot and then downclock. I really didn't notice it before New pointed it out to me. They didn't give us the ability to overclock but they sure did give the downclock!

 

So here's my Update

CONFIRMED DOWNCLOCKING OCCURS ALSO ON THE T9300


First snapshot taken after about 20 min, everything seems normal, Temps and Clocks steady:


After some time, the downclocking startet: every 10s or so the clocks were periodically reduced for about a sec, see pic for proof:

 

Oh no I think we opened a new Can of worms here guys. I think the only solution would be to engage Higher Fan speeds at lower CPU temps.

I think we need to relay this info again to AW. Maybe Mr. Lopez can shed some light on the issue.

 

wow thats some pretty dissappointing news. i guess theres probably going to be another bios update for the cpu fans now?

hopefully this issue wont get out of hand like what happened with the 8800 during its downclocking times. even people who didnt have an m15x were bashing it >>

 

thats not a solution, it would only take longer for the downclocking to appear IMO

I don't think a bios update would help because the fan is already running at MAX, I'm rather afraid the cooling system just can't handle the heat

 

Crizzler you may be correct. It may be a case of a larger heatsink, and Fan are required. MY question is how can this be missed if they TEST and RETEST system, to ensure quality and perfect operation.

And this surely knocks out eh chance of ever OC'ing the Extreme processor.

 

Judging by the screenshots, its throttling down because its getting too hot

btw. both GPU and CPU are supposed to downclock accordingly to run more efficiently. Its called SpeedStep for the CPU, im sure your aware of it

You guys should use RMclock. Its a dedicated cpu utility

Its a shame AW wont take advantage of the OC multipliers for xtreme cores

 

Flip this is defenatly not Intel's speed step. It more like Intel's thermal profile that protects the CPU from overheating, kicking in.

The results are the same when you use RMClock. Overheats to 95c and downclocks to prevent damage to the actual Chip.

 

Yes its called thermal protection/throttling, its a fail-safe feature. Its set to downclock the CPU accordingly when it reaches a certain temperature

Also i suggest using HWMonitor instead of Coretemp. Its just an overall better temp monitor (CPU/GPU/HDD/THRZones)

Undervolting should stop it from hitting thermal

 

Flip, Undervolting may affect the over all CPU and system stability. Wouldn't you agree?

I have undervolted desktop CPU's just to keep them running cool on Media boxes. Another user noted that he was Dc'ing wih a t9300. If I am not mistaken that CPU already runs 0.25 Volts less.

So with that in mind to get even lower temps we would have to try a .35 v decrease in Core Voltage. To me if we keep decrease the Vcore to ensure no over heating we are eventually going to become unstable.

 

^
Thats why you do a stability test. Once you found your unstable and optimum voltages, raise the voltage 2 steps higher to make sure it is rock stable.

Undervolting can cool anywhere form 10-20c, which should be enough to stop it from hitting thermal. If it doesnt then theres something seriously wrong with the cooling system

I only lowered my Vcore by .150v and cooled off 12c. rock stable!

 

Speedstep downclocking the CPU while its under 100% load for efficiency? Hm can't see the sense in that
I've monitored speedstep behaviour on numerous mobile CPUs and know when I see it, what I saw while stress test was nothing but the thermal protection kicking in to keep the CPU below a certain temp. For me a clear sign that the cooling system of the m15x is already strained to the max under normal conditons (lets say average gaming) but synthetic tests (prime, furmark) finally overload it...

TBH it doens't surprise me at all, looking at the cooling system and how tiny it is...

 

Crizzler my CPu heatsink is so small it doesn't even cover the entire discharge area of the CPU fan. I lose about 3/8". Usually your heatsink fins are slightly large or at least teh same size as the fan Discharge.

 

this will probably explain why I didn't see a huge difference in converting movies with a t7700 over the x9000 there is a little difference but not a huge difference like I thought I would see.

 

Sad but true Taco.

 

I was speaking about Speedstep's purpose just by itself when i mentioned it above.

Yes Its not supposed to downclock when on full load. The only reason it would do DC' is if the thermal protection has been tripped

I highly recommend undervolting, its one of last cooling solutions left. FYI, it doesnt affect performance at all

-AS5/Copper mod is a little invasive
-Cooling pad will only make the cpu 1-3c cooler
-Underclocking will hinder performance.

 

You have to undervolt from the BIOS though don't you? I know I have to do that on my desktop.

 

wait. undervolting reduces the temperature but doesn't affect performance? how is that supposed to work?

 

It does work Whizzo. Core Voltage is what genrates the HEAT. Well voltage and wattage really. By reducing the VOLTAGE you reduce the thermal output of the CPU. Intel use a set voltage for all thier cpu's based on the Chip design.
This insure's they know the chip will perform at that voltage. You can reduce the core voltage, and by doing so reduce the thermal generation of the chip.

This has a draw back though. Not all chips can be undervolted dramatically. It's kind like OC'ing a chip. Some chips do it better then the next guys chip. I am not sure how much we can decrease the CPU Core Voltage without making in unstable. I know with my Desktop, a slight decrease does make a big difference in Thermal output. Each Heatsink has a Thermal (wattage) dissapation index with it. So this clearly shows the M15x was not at all throughly tested. The math/plus safety margin each computer manufacturer uses was obviously undercalculated on the M15x. Again I don't think a simple BIOS will fix this. Although I may be completely wrong on that.

 

ok guys for me its 93c then the multiplier goes from x 14 to x 8 at about 87c the fan speeds up to 6467 but doesn't seem to cool it fast enough cause then it rises back to 93c downclocks then goes to 72c then a few seconds later back to 93c again and using prime95 it only takes 4 min to get this cycle going.

 

Yeah once the cycle starts on my System it will never stop unless I stop the prime testing.

I just hope I can get off this floater and get home to start testing this machine in person. I think I have my wife drove nuts with it already lol..

 

Only desktops can undervolt through BIOS. Notebooks have to do it using software.

Yes thats correct as newfie explained above. . Voltage isnt responsible for performance, Clockspeeds are. Voltage is just what powers the clockspeeds.

Read the guide in sig, it will enlighten you. Theres no catch

 

so is AW aware of this problem too then?

 

lol I'm sure hopefully Steve or Frank will see this and test it themselves. Yeah same for me when the cycle start it won't stop. I don't think AW knows about this yet.

EDIT: Hey does anyone know a program that we can monitor the CPU multiplier and record the info kinda like rivatuner does? I want see if it will do it while gaming.

 

Well this is why I had my system sent in. They sent me a letter back with my system stating that they were able to replicate my issues and had to replace the CPU.

Taco you on the X32 bios.

 

RMclock

 

No I don't have the 8800 so I didn't upgrade the bios do you think I should? thanks flip I'm going to download it now.

 

I don't see the need Taco. I have the 8800m so that is why I installed it.

Thanks flip, it looks like a handy tool..

 

As soon as you install it make sure you do this first to detect the cpu properly:

 

Wasn't so serious with that line, thus the smiley

Thanks for the infos about RMclock!

TBH if undervolting my CPU is one of the solutions left when I don't want it to overheat/downclock, then... its a good sign there is something serously wrong about the thermal design of the system...

 

This issue starts to sound a lot like the old days, when people started realizing the GPU downclock and it turned out it was a generalized problem.
I know we shouldn't just bash and be destructive... but sometimes we have to destroy to build upon. If this proves to be true, it's the last drop and I think it's more than proved that AW is criminally selling defective laptops to their costumers, that can't and don't perform like advertised.
If my laptop comes with a single downclocking problem, I'm going to be really pissed off.

Anyway... I'll update my first post to add some more programs to make this testing more easy.

But please, all you M15x owners there... It's IMPORTANT that you check whether this is also your problem. It's important to clear that possibility out so that we can forward whatever information we gather to AW.

Cheers,
M.

 

Ok, I don't know how did you all get about 90 degrees, ran test today and got about 67... And no downclock. I have I feeling I did something wrong. Here's a foto:

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/8375/85847908bv1.jpg

EDIT:I have 2.5 one

 

Guys don't undervolt your processors. You could actually mess them up if you screw up while doing it. Please don't be stupid and void your warranty.

@Flip - The main point of this is that these processors are downclocking and they shouldn't be considering this laptop is $3K + for the higher end components. First the GPU downclocked and they fixed that but now the CPU is downclocking as well. This is a huge issue and I do not think the customer should do anything to try to remedy this, especially if it can possibly void the warranty.

 

@Impressive
Hm you used CPU+RAM stress test, I used CPU only - thats the only difference I saw right now... What temps does thermofan give you?
Some random thoughts: Stealth Mode on? What power profile was active? Integrated or dedicated? Laptop-Cooler? Do you know what heatpipe/heatsink-rev you have?

 

What u did is correct. I also did not hit 90C. It stabilize at 70.8C. Ambient temp is at 25C. No DC at all.

My thought on this issue on how relevant to real world usage.

Those benchmarks stresses the CPU at 100% for prolong period (45mins).
I have got a CPU widget in my desktop all the time and even if I play crysis, run email, radio, skype, firefox all at once I will not hit 100%. I only hit 100% if I just launch a program and it just be less than 5 secs. It will be a challenge to make my CPU hit 100% usage for 5 mins. I would say keep launching all your programs one by one non-stop for 5 mins. I run out of programs within the first 3 mins.

Well if u uses 100% of the CPU for 45 mins, u should be concern.

 

I agree with rexy point... and I also think that this can't be such a widespread problem as the GPU. Nevertheless, it's important for us to clear this out so that we can; 1- help people that have the problem; 2- Push AW into doing something about it.

 

Rexi that isn't actually true. And anyone who has done any video or photo editing will tell you. They can hit 100% cpu usage for long periods of time.
Engineering software I use for work will max out CPU's for hours while it's calculating, and modeling well designs.
Heck I figured out my CPU was downclocking from playing WoW. I think there is a serious issue here and it's up to AW to fix it.

Also Rexi you are using the 2.5 T9300. The mojority of issues so far have been with the extreme processors. So hopefully you are in the clear.

Milcs those are some great points. We need to educate people about this.

For me this is a big issue, I want what I paid for. Maybe it is just me, but I refuse to accept this as "Well it only happens everyone once in a while".
It would be like buying a boat and it doesn't float. These system have been seriously flawed from day one.
And it is the responsibility of AW to Deliver what was advertised and purcahsed.

 

Wow, this makes me terrified to by an m15x. I mean, I don't want to pay almost 3K for a laptop and have it not work, only to find that I have to pay them again for the restocking fee. Honestly, that's borderline fraud. I mean, you pay for something, they send you a broken product, then make you pay them again to return it. That sounds lawsuit-worthy to me. Ugh, I don't know what I'm going to do. I want the power of the m15x, and all of the "professional" reviews have raved about it (Maximum PC gave it Editor's Choice), but I don't want a system that's going to fail on me, or feel "cheap", or whatever.

 

I think that the majority of reviewers don't spend enough time with laptops which is kind of sad considering every review doesn't bring any of this up.

And Alienware... Man I thought that they would run CPU + GPU tests for at least like 6 hrs before shipping a laptop. Hell I could test better than they did and I'm just a kid...

@Jwest - Wait for the Clevo 15" to come out. The reason in my opinion as to why it is not out yet is that they are still testing it and making sure that it is up to gaming standards before they release it. If you do buy it, buy it through xoticpc.com. I have heard nothing but good things from them as a re-seller.

 

JWest,

Don't get discouraged by other people problems. There are many many happy people with M15x's who are enjoying the hell out of them. Probaly so much that they haven't had time to post here yet.

The only true way your curiousity will ever be solved is to take the plunge and have one built. And remember you have 30 Days to try it out. If you don't liek it retrun it before those 30 days are up.

I truly enjoyed my M15x, the CPU and Webcam are the only beef's I have left.
For power and portability the M15x is a winner.

 

Thanks, it's definitely good to hear some positive things. By the way, is the 30 day policy guaranteed? Do you have a link I could go to on their website that says so? I just want to be sure before I buy.

 

so you enjoy your m15x except for the cpu, one of the most important parts of the system? You are right though, many people are happy, not many for that matter would be using 100% power anyways. even in gaming, i never saw my cpu's go past 80% even though the game i was playing had higher reccomendations than the cpu i had.

 

It is absolutely guaranteed, some people on these forums have already done so, like my pet hate friend firstn20

 

that is what i was told tonight about 14 day return policy even though i was told on the day i got my m15x that it would be extended to 30 days as i had so many problems. the agent tonight said it was 14 days and she couldnt find any details that mine had been extended
so get it in writing first.

 

I did enjoy M15x. Although it has been while since mine has been around lol. It's sitting at home again with a downclocking CPU and I am hoping to be home within a few days.

I anaged to squeeze in a few lan parties and had a blast at each one with my M15x. The system ran fine on teh COD4 parties but didn't do so well on WoW weekend. It still did better then most, it didn't blow me away with power. Again that was when I noticed the DC'ing CPU. And it just became worse over time. Again my CPU was said to be faulty, so who really knows I didn't fix it myself.