Alienware Rip Off

alienware has just brought out their new m17x r3, i liked it very much and i checked out the site of my country: the netherlands. turns out the new alienware costs much more here than in the USA! ive put every configuration exactly the same and when saw the course of the dollar it turns out it's $1200 more in The Netherlands than in USA!!! anyone knows more about that?

 

I feel your pain.

It's a similar story here in the United Kingdom, Dell UK charge *massively* over the odds, so a good deal for a respectable spec stateside will undoubtedly turn out to be a bit of a joke if investigating the Dell UK website.
That it's a similar issue in the rest of Europe doesn't surprise me at all.

You could import a machine from the USA, pay a hefty shipping charge and add 20% VAT and other taxes and I'd still probably save a lot over buying it locally.

It is very, very annoying. However, have you considered ordering over the phone? You might be able to push the price down a bit, scant consellation I guess but there we go.

 

Out of curiosity, aren't most items more expensive due to the taxes imposed on Dell and other companies to sell and operate compared to the US? I would naturally think they would be significantly more expensive. Taking VAT to an extreme one should even have to pay to USE a computer you bought since it has no real value until you actually work on it....

 

Its taxed heavily so you people in europe will have jobs. if not everyone would be unemployed and unable to buy anything.

 

In Brazil, we need to spend at least 2.5x than the US price...

Standard M17x R2 here is $4500.00 ...

 

i just doesn't make sense, because just to ship it here shouldn't be so much trouble and around $100. and @5abivt i earn enough with my job and i can afford it but it's just isn't right that we have to pay so much more

 

In Australia its similar, atleast the base m17x R3 is the strongest 2820, gtx 460, 16gb ram all that but its 3,700 AUD.

Currently the AUD is hovering and hits parity with the USD on some days, so they remain relatively close. I specced a machine exactly like the Australian model at its 700$ more which is pretty annoying.

 

I really don't get why they can't just add the shipping costs to the usd price because the only thing they get now are pissed off costumers and less sales. at least i'm not buying one!

(edit)i found 2 tutorials about how to get one from the USD bet shipping to any country and one about how to make it cost less.

how to on shipping:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware/452304-how-order-dell-us-non-us-citizens.html

how to on discount:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware/456885-aw-dell-ordering-advice-how-save.html

 

yep but about the discount. that has been for more then a year now so it might still work it might not. These big companies can change policy pretty fast.

 

Eventhough we have very high taxes in Europe, other brands like Asus still offer very reasonable prices on their laptops.
But according to Alienware's logic, where an m17x r3 would cost 1500 dollars, and costs 2676 dollars in Belgium for the minimum config, this means that if you would buy a netbook in Amerika for 300 dollars that we would pay 1400 dollars for it here. Ofc this is not the case, so its not because of taxes and also not because of the (unfair) 1 dollar = 1 euro proportion.

 

This annoys me no end! Have to pay an ridiculous premium when anywhere other than the US. And it hurts all the more seeing how the AUD and US are at parity...

 

I think the reason is that Dell has to service smaller markets in Europe and the cost is due to high overhead (expensive labor, expensive building rentals, local govt taxes etc) out there. Asus probably does it cheaper because:

1. They do not sell to customers directly, they let resellers deal with that.
2. Because of #1, Asus has no real operating overhead in Europe.

As a result, you likely get mixed customer service with Asus depending on which reseller you deal with.

 

Yep. I paid around £3000 for my R1 M17x. That works out as like $5000. Just for the first model. Wasn't even maxed out either.

 

Aah I totaly forgot about that. I'm not sure how much a worker in the USA costs, but here an employee can cost like 35-65€ per hour (while he/she gets like 10€, all the rest goes to health insurance, pension, etc).

I've heard that some people in the states earn like 3 dollars an hour serving in a diner this is probably way exagerated but still, this could explain a lot.

Especially if you add the transport cost for the repairmen to come to your house. Gasoline in the States is very cheap (here 1l of diesel costs like 1.1€ .

It would be nice if the Premium warranty wasn't obligated and we could just use the cheaper 5 day(or more days) repair service.

 

I disagree with some of the point you are making especially about workforce, if you look at it statistically away from a few offices and engineers the bulk of their workforce these days is based in India or China because of outsourcing. Also keep in mind that the market has changed a lot, they don't need to sell their product wholey by the shop window like over a decade ago because of the internet and this naturally leads to a big drop in overhead costs. I just think they are ripping us off but that is me. Other companies can offer a lot cheaper prices than Dell/Alienware and they manage to operate at a profit. Just call it what it is - a blatant rip off by both them and the government. I actually wouldn't mind the prices so much if they assembled the laptops in this country and employed more british people but there are serious ethical questions not only over this sort of pricing but also why they don't want to use the workforce here but want to use the market. Even if I had that sort of money, I'd never buy an r3!

 

You have to pay extra to support the politicians life style and bad spending.

 

@shanley i dont think so, the politicians don't earn that much and bad spending +- partly true but that's not the reasons they overprice laptops? XD

 

C'mon...I dont think thats the REAL reason....yeah, sure we have high taxes etc BUT whenever I call AW, its INDIA I am calling....not the UK. So, they are not paying staff UK wages, they are paying lower priced workers (no offense India) to do the same work. Its basically outsourcing to the lowest bidder - thats why all UK phone calls to more or less ANY customer service dept for ANY organisation these days are routed to India - because the major corporations will NOT pay for UK people to do the same job in the UK.

As far as buildings go, I think AW have one head office building here in the UK, so its highly unlikely that Dell pay astronomical rents for one building!

So, you could argue that Dell have NOT got high overheads in the UK because its all farmed out to different non EU countries - to obviously save money!

I really do feel that they have just thought as everything else is pricey in the UK, they would cash in on the same thing too.....same goes for other countries I would imagine.

The big difference between US and ANY other country is that DELL cant take a dump on their own doorstep and shaft US citizens because there is no excuse for overpriced goods on your own doorstep.

Makes me mad this does, If I handnt had such a bargain on my system, there is NO way on earth that I would even entertain Dell's current prices - which is sad, because they do not NEED to make these things so expensive for Non US countries...they just do to get a bit more cash. End of story!

Classic example here:

I was looking to buy a Tactx mouse the other day, it was available for £47gbp ish.....now when i checked the other day after our 2.5% vat rise, you would expect it would go up a bit....NO WAY, this is DELL here...it went up to £80gbp for the same product in the space of a few days....is that capitalising on things or what? - pure daylight robbery.

'scuse my mini-rant!

 

Stevie, take a look at this link: Company Facts | Dell UK

Here's some quick snips from it:

You don't think your workers pay, health costs, ridiculous UK government taxes, building costs etc factor into their prices over there?

 

Good find. I' not saying they dont have expenses, Im just saying that the expenses that Dell have do not justify doubling the price tag of these systems.

To quote from the same article:

Why the UK is an important market for Dell
The UK is critical to the success of Dell in Europe. It is the second largest European market with a strong and growing customer base.
Dell UK aims to further expand through the delivery of even better service and support to its customers, in addition to growing its server, storage and services businesses.
The UK was the first country Dell launched in after the US and since this time it has established itself as the largest business for the company outside the US.

Given these statements, is that how a large organisation treats its second largest customer base outside the US?

Also, as we are so critical in the UK, im not suprised by that statement....obviously a GREAT DEAL OF PROFIT comes from the UK because of the huge markup on the prices of these systems!

Lets face it, if Dell sells , say an R3 for $1500 in the US, it doesnt cost that much to make otherwise they wouldnt be in business. I dont know HOW much it costs, but I would take a stab at maybe half that figure.

So, to sell the same system over in the UK is only going to make much more profit - I really dont see that their organisation is THAT expensive over here to warrant such ridiculous prices.

Not having a go at you Brian, just the system and Dell's apparent desire to extract the urine from the average British citizen with these price tags.

 

I never said that they didn't employ UK workforce what I mean is that they employ the minimium to operate in this country. 1500 for a corporation the size of Dell isn't that much really when you consider they employ nearly 100,000 people worldwide 46,000 in the US alone. If you break down their profits per employee it stands at over $800,000 as a rough average. So why is there is debate raging about the cost of the workforce? It's miniscule here compared to other places and it wouldn't affect Dell much. I would love to see the ratio of # of employee vs the total UK market value they hold. But anyway there are a lot of corporations that do it, outsourcing is standard, I just don't agree at all that tax and the government is the total blame here that is only one side not for such a price hike.

Lastly you mentioned Ireland that is not the UK, Ireland has the lowest corporation tax in the EU so it's no surprise they are in Dublin.

 

Well said that man^^^^^^ +rep.

As of 2010, Dell employs more than 96,000 people worldwide, so 1500 is a drop in the ocean and does no where near account for their outrageous prices.

 

Employing >1500 people (could be more now since that data might be old), serving entire markets in Europe, ridiculous European taxes, wages, health costs etc. factor into all of it. Nobody can give an accurate break down but at least you now have some facts to go on rather than rampant anti-Dell/anti-US speculation. If you want prices like ours, change your governments and increase your consumption to US levels (is that even a good thing?). Although now with our own government waging wars, forcing Obamacare, raising taxes, bailing out corporations that should go under with public money, it won't be long before we're a mirror of Europe and it's high prices.

P.S. outsourcing is a major problem in the US as well. It's contributed in part to our 10% unemployment.

 

I dont think ANYONE here is being anti-American, they are however, being anti-huge profit markup for no good reason.
The UK will never see prices like the US simply because of the massive economies of scale that the US has in terms of bulk buying and such like.

Its not that UK people want "the same" prices as US, cos thats blatantly never gonna happen as the US is such a huge superpower when it comes down to it.....I think UK people would be far happier "knowing" that they werent being "royally shafted" for no better reason.

I think global downturn and economics have affected most every country (maybe apart from china who are booming obviously) and so we will see disparity in prices etc etc....its just a very bitter pill to swallow wherever you are, that something should cost so much more. I think that the whole global downturn started with American bankers if i recall....cant remember the name of the guy but didnt he break one of the largest financial institutions in the US? - stock broker of some variety i think.

That saw the rest of the world drop to its knees.....granted we have our fair share of "crooks" in the UK , what with the banking fiasco over here - the US arent the only government who have had to bail out failing institutions....some of the largest UK banks are now part owned by the tax payer because the government has had to bail them out to avoid them going "bust"

Im gonna dismount my soapbox now, it aint gonna get any of us anywhere, Dell will still charge what they charge, Uk people will have to like it or lump it.

I cant help thinking though, that (and not just Dell) sales for such items with increased price tags will reflect somewhere along the lines in their profit margins.

Bottom line is, if you cant afford it, you dont buy it and Dell havent done a very good job of making things "affordable" for most Non US countires.

 

I think we would all like to see lower prices for everyone else but there may be challenges that hamper that. Its not like Dell doesn't WANT to sell more systems there, it makes no sense for them to hike the prices that high and sit on their inventory. For now, you guys might be better served asking those of us in the US to ship you systems.

 

what i dun understand is we are talking about the r3 here, the government didnt just single out 1 laptop and super-tax it for the sake of it, we know that the UK is expensive but look at the dumb figure differentiation.

an what has healthcare got to do with laptop prices? forget about tax for a second the USA spends more per GPD on healthcare than anywhere in europe because yoyu lot let insurance companies batter you while here its taxed amongst everyone so insurance and unneeded middle groups are taken away. i find the us citizens that are on the right wing to be very misinformed indeed on healthcare!

 

Reckon next time i buy one, it will be cheaper for me to take a holiday at the same time...I would still come back home after a week in sunny Cali or somewhere with a nice tan and a laptop PLUS some change LOL. - thats just how absurd it is.

I recall not so long ago (6mths) when i got my R2....I frequented the US site to check how much the same spec was ... it was obviously cheaper, but NOW, man, the gap is astronomically more expensive.

I think my system (retail) was £3k ish (gbp) and the same spec US was $2400usd or something like....I looked into importing but it was gonna be too close to call with vat etc.....

NOW, when i calculate the same kinda deal, like i said, i can book a holiday too with the difference...

 

I'm a med student (1 yr left for my M.D.), trust me I'm not misinformed on health care. Doctors in the U.S. are facing up to 21% pay cuts due to government inefficiency (medicare) while COL rises. The reason I brought up health care is because of socialized medicine costs and companies like Dell have to pay that when doing business in Europe. The R3 is just one product among many that are sold by Dell which are "overpriced" compared to their counterparts in the US. By the way, though I'm officially a Democrat, I subscribe to conservative fiscal policy (something even Republicans don't follow these days).

IF that is the case then there's obviously something wrong. I'd wait it out a few weeks for prices to come back in line. I have a feeling this thread will be closed soon since it's gone way OT so I'll do my part and stop here.

 

isn't it true in the US that many jobs offer their employees healthcare cover so they take the full whack anyway? I must admit I prefer the idea of it getting deducted from a wage and it sounds like a lot less pressure on businesses, national insurance contributions are reasonably low here anyway. you guys pay out more than double to what candians do and they have a fairer system that covers everyone that is comparatively good. sounds ethical to me. if i got hurt over in the USA even with cover id be terrified to what the blue print in the contract says. too many scams and cop outs in insurance. it shouldnt be like that with health care...

 

Guys drop the health/insurance/cover rubbish it had a sentence of relevance in the discussion not paragraphs you will get the thread closed for being so offtopic! It's about the reasons why the r3 is so unjustifiably expensive compared to the other models.

 

i find that the m11x is like about $500 AUD difference between the US and AU stores but for a m15x it's a bigger $1200 AUD difference...so screwy!

but even if you buy from the US store, via a proxy/mail redirect, I believe you can transfer the warranty.

 

Arguing amongst each other is going to achieve nothing....there is nothing you guys across the pond can do, nor we over here. We all have our opinions and as such, should respect each others.

Viewpoints, on the other hand, should be tolerated and listened to without prejudice. It really is the only way to resolve things regardless of which side of the greenhouse you are looking from.

Its suffice to say that alot of stuff is overpriced in the UK, we shouldnt single out Dell, but for those that are looking for these high end systems from within the UK, the websites speak volumes.

If it were role reversal, I doubt anyone in the US would like it either.

Anyway, lets agree to disagree on a few things....bit of devil's advocacy.

On a final note, my last contribution, Im just so glad I gotmy system when I did. Pity the poor folk who want an R3 outside the US and find themselves paying over double the cost for it...not just from the UK either.

 

What is demand like in UK? I mean how many people really buy Alienware computers in the UK or elsewhere compared to the states? Dell may be a big hand in UK but Alienware sales may be minimal in comparison.

Just my .02

 

You cant compare the two directly. US has a huge population so its unfair to say AW sells more in the US cos its gonna be a given. I would say, although I have no figures to back it up, that per head of population, we are no different to any other economy. Percentage wise, the same number of people will want to buy AW, we may be smaller in numbers in terms of purchases but thats probably because the whole of the UK fits mutliple times over into the land area covered by the whole United States.

Look at it like this....

USA is 31 times the land size of the UK
Population of the US = 307,000,000 people.
Population of the UK = 61,000,000 people.

So , the states has 5 times as many citizens, meaning lots more purchases eh?

Dya think thats a fair way to look at things?

 

I didn't mean a direct comparison of numbers but a percentage of population. Of course numbers are going to be lower because there is such a large difference of population. I honestly don't know a thing about the economy or markets of the UK, wish I did but I don't. In my ignorance I thought the percentage of population to purchase super high end gaming computers being lower seems feasible.

 

Alienware is popular as a gamers option but it's still a niche. Expensive one too. I'm sure they make sales but most people prefer consoles don't they. I'm also gambling that you get a lot of second hand sales/refurbs in the UK when you compare to new sales.

I cannot find any statistics at all for Alienware sales on the internet within the UK but I know the US sells much more per person.

 

To be honest, afaik, Dell do not have a refurb or outlet like the US cos i looked for one. The nearest thing is an ebay reseller called NDC who claim to be a dell authorised outlet. Not so sure about that.

The UK isnt a poor population by any standards so i would imagine that the ration of people buying a system would be the same kind of ratio as any other economy that is "rich" if you like.

Maybe the US has more gaming enthusiasts, i dont know, but thats a hard statistic to predetermine...and yes, console sales are prevalent over in the UK I would imagine over a high end laptop.

Still, I would maintain that we, as a nation, indulge in our whims for these kind of things in just as much frequency (for those that can afford to) as those anywhere else. The US is a wealthy country and so is the UK so I dont see there being that much disparity.

 

Keep in mind that Dell India customer service and sales rep make:
2,700 USD/per year

...while someone from the same profession in Canada or the US makes 18,000 USD/per year.

Dell assembly workers get 280 USD/month in Asia.

Assembly workers in Canada or the US make 2,500 USD/month.

It's not labour that's leading to higher costs, it's the company being greedy.

(source - essay on foreign labour 09/2010 of mine)

And don't try to make Asus sound like an angel, b/c they're not

They let European resellers double the prices in some of Europe. A good company would revoke their reseller license and find someone else, but they don't. For example, the G73JW is x2 in Hungary, x1.5 in Czech, etc.

 

The company I used to work for here in the UK (Head Office) bought all of its computer hardware from Dell. Regardless of what they bought they received a minimum 25% discount from the RRP on Dells website, this includes anything from Alienware as well.

This would mean they could buy the R3 in the UK for £1260, obviously this includes VAT forwhich they wont pay as well.

My point being Dell are clearly making a profit when selling to a company at this price. Also the company were very small fry compared to some companies here in the UK, only purchasing something like 200 machines a year.

What will also annoy the UK people here is that the US part of the company receives 30% discount on all Dell purchases and they only have around 100 employees.

The problem in the UK is simply we allow anyone to walk all over us, where the US won't stand for this.

Dell set the price in the UK for what they know they can sell it for, not by profit margins.

 

I think it's the same in australia too!

 

A lot of you talked about outsourcing but when I mentioned employee costs, I was talking about the people that actually do the repairing. Eventhough anyone can swap a hard drive, I assume that these are educated/skilled workers (in Belgium dell just call a local repairshop and hire a worker to do the repair for them).

 

Nah, Dell outsource repairs too...that AW tech who comes to you home....he isnt an AW specialist, he is from a computer repair company (and im betting Dell have lots on their books they use).

So, instead of offering a specialist trained person who actually knows what an AW laptop is "inside and out", you get mr joe bloggs, who knows a bit but probably not much more than you or I.

Another classic example of cost saving, profit orientated business by Dell.

Wouldnt you think that these high end systems, cost of them to buy, you would also within that price tag, be buying repair services of a complete AW pro....thats just not the case.

Thats why you hear so many horror stories about AW technicians visiting peoples homes to repair their AW system and leaving with it being in a worse mess than when they arrived!

 

I don't think that the UK is poor in comparison to any country per person. I just believe that the company is better established in the US as it started over there as an American company and American's on average play more games and buy more games. I'm absolutely certain that alienware sells more over there per person than over here in the UK, as does Dell, but by how much I cannot answer.

What worries me with this sort of pricing is if their newer models are going to be similarly priced. I bought my m15x late last year, the total value was £1500 but I got a decent deal off and it was highly specced. This was somewhat affordable. Now we are looking at more than this for base specs. I feel like I am being pushed out of alienware to other companies when I make my next purchase. An r3 decked out is going to cost you over 3k with warranty.

 

I know what you mean. When I bought my current system, the list price on it was £3,400gbp ot there abouts....now obvioulsy I didnt PAY that for it, I managed to negotiate a very good deal, much like yourself.

However, there are those out there who do not try and negotiate or look for money off and once they see a price tag of that size, it is (or can be) an immediate flag to go and look at other manufacturers.

I too worry about what the next system will cost, given the R3 regime, I would be imagining that base spec on the mythical M18x would be closer to £3000gbp unless things change regrading Dell's policies.

That figure itself, for a base spec (and yeah, I know its hypothetical) would be completely unacceptable.

Wait and see I guess....

 

Quit paying for illegal aliens and health care costs would go down and so would laptop prices. At least I hope so

 

Love the profile Pic, is that you?

 

Hahaha - just looked at yours....man, that is "SpongeBobSquareBath"....excellent....

 

Forum Rules -

Thread closed. We're not going to argue about various taxes, if one country is better than the other, etc.