Area 51m 7700 with mystery startup prevention

Greetings all,

I've got a 4 year old Area 51 7700, lovingly used during that time period, but getting up there in its years toward the end. Plenty of repairs and "sent back to AW" waiting periods as things burned out, which I like to hope was just poor luck rather than unintentional abuse. It's the only computer I've had with that many technical problems. Any way, shortly after the warranty was up, I got a replacement computer and put the Alienware aside for light use, where it promptly sat in a case untouched for several months.

When I decided to give it to a family member, I cleaned it up and reformatted, with no sign of problems. After it was handed off though the trouble started almost immediately. Occasionally after hitting the power button, the whole screen would simply blink white and unilluminated black slowly, and wouldn't stop. Apparently it was left on in this state for lengthy periods, and I believe they told me after a while, it would startup after they turned it on and off again, which didn't sound like a wise idea. Conveniently, of course, when I would go over to try and see the problem myself, it started up right away with no problems. Only later when it was getting worse, and harder to start at all did I start to see it myself.

The only sound would be the DVD Drive clicking briefly (with nothing inside), the fans coming on, and then nothing from internal speakers to suggest anything was going on behind the scenes. Key presses didn't seem to get any results either. More recently it's often stopped doing anything on powerup at all, just an empty screen that doesn't turn on, despite the fans kicking in eventually.

It was suggested to me it may be the video card acting up, as plugging in an external monitor provided no signal to it at all, but I'm unsure how valid that advice is. I was also guessed it could be the motherboard, so I'm sure if I solicited enough opinions I'd be replacing everything inside.

Based on all that though, I opened it up, where I discovered the thermal grease between the heatsinks of the video card and CPU were long gone, with decent damage to the NVidia logo on the video card contact plate. I replaced the grease in the hopes that would be it, but no go, I still get the blinking or black screen in even distribution.

So any guesses or follow up questions that might help me narrow down the guilty party? I'd like to get it right on an early go.

 

The one thing which comes to mind is loose video connections. If your system comes on, fans come on and so forth your system board is working fine. I have had bad motherboards, where the system fans would not come on.
Do you have the D900T or D900K?
Either way the process should be the same.

I have a D900K, so I hope this is informative

When you look directly down on the keyboard, you will see 4 small plastic clips between the black plastic bezel and the F1-F12 row of keys.
You need to use a small flat head screwdriver to recess those clips, so that you can remove the keyboard.
After unclipping, the keyboard should pop up. Simply remove the ribbon cable and remove the keyboard.
Than unscrew the 5 small screws which hold down the metal plate which is under the keyboard.
Once removed, you can remove the small plastic bezel which the power button is on.
Once removed you will see a few video connections. Their should be three sets of wires. One is a 4 pin USB connection for the webcam, the other is a 11 or so pin connector for the indicator lights and the screen inverter, and the next set is a group of about 30 pins which have a large connector.
You want to unplug all of these.
Get a good light and analyze the ports. I know I have had strange artifact/errata come up on my screen because one of these wires was not seated properly within the white plastic port. You can use a small pair of tweezers to push all of the wires down individually. After this is done, reconnect all of the wires, and give it another go.
If the problem is still present, I would advise going to the next step.
The next step is to check the cable on the back of the LCD.
The 30 or so pin cable which I mentioned above, goes to the ribbon cable on the back of the LCD.
You will need to physically take the lid apart to do this.
So alienware may have put some small rubber dots around the lid. Their should be 8 of them. Underneath are 8 small screws which hold the two halves of the lid together. Remove all 8 screws and remove the front plastic bezel of the screen.
Than you need to proceed to removing the LCD. I cant remember off hand, but I think their are three screws on each side of the LCD, and three on the other side which need to be removed, as well as two additional screws at the top of the LCD.
Once removed you can see the back of the LCD.
The ribbon cable runs up the back of the screen. It is about 1.25" wide and about 1mm thick. Their should be a few small yellow pieces of tape which hold this cable down.
Remove them, and remove the cable from the LCD.
Grab a few q-tips and a little rubbing alcohol and clean the connector at the end of the ribbon cable. Make sure it is dry before reinserting it.
When you think the cable is installed correctly, grab some electrical tape, or packaging tape, and tape the cable in place. You need to do this because when you open and close the LCD, the ribbon cable can slightly move. I suspect this to be causing the problem. Open and closing the lid too fast can cause the cable to unplug itself. So if it is taped down pretty well, this will not happen again.
Once you tape the cable down, reinstall the LCD, and put the lid back together.
Than try powering her up and see if it works.

If it does not work, let us know

K-TRON

 

Williamshade,

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with your system, follow these steps to set up the external monitor as primary and to verify if the issue persists, if so then it could be video related. You may also try to reseat the LCD cable if the issue does not replicate on the external source.

Thank you.

 

^^^ cheater, that's just a pictorial way to say what I did in words

K-TRON

 

well they are a multi million dollar company i think they can afford to cheat

 

Mine has a toasted optical controller, if i have a drive installed it will do something very much like that, though it's only a single flash of which occasionally, usually the backlight comes on but the screen stays black. Fans come on and such, but it never makes it past there.
Pull the drive out and presto it works great.

Given that there wasn't any kind of thermal gunk on the video card i'd suspect that, but it might be worthwhile to take the dvd drive(s) out just in case, it's quite simple.

 

Thanks for the suggestions so far all. I reseated the LCD cables as suggested by K-Tron and Armando, which didn't get me anywhere

I'm going to take a crack at the external monitor and the cable on the LCD itself in the morning. However...

While I had it open, I quickly noticed this black cable with a gold cap that seemed to be running toward a region of black tape. The cable itself was floating/resting free over the circuit board, as if it had gotten loose. It runs back and into the same area as the LCD hookup.

I personally have no no idea what function this cable has, but it doesn't seem to be in it's correct state. Inside the tape was a second cable of the same type, secured in a small plastic tube. From what little I can view on the Alienware diagrams, this doesn't appear to be the correct state for this cable, but it's not the focus of the shots.

I'll attach pictures to illustrate. Any idea what this cable is, and if it's a cause of my problems? Given that I was getting sporadic visuals before, it seems odd a totally wayward cable would be responsible, but I can't profess to intimate knowledge of laptop innards.

 

The wires you are referring to are antennas.
The black and gray ones in the last image are for the main wireless and bluetooth wireless signals.

The wire to the left of the black foam is for the TV Tuner. You do not have any wireless cards or tv tuners, so you have cables lying around. The connectors are metal, so they should be taped off. Leaving them open could potentially short parts of the motherboard.
You should put some electrical tape over them, to prevent any electrical shorts from occurring

Here is the inside of my system with TV Tuner and wireless installed, to give you an idea of what it looks like:
(On the left is the Avermedia M103 Tv Tuner, With small cable connection to the motherboard, and the gray cable, which I think is for FM Tuning. On the right is the wireless 802.11b/g card, with a bluetooth and wireless antenna leads going into it)


K-TRON

 

Ah, good to know it's just something unrelated that got out at some point, I figured it might be. Thankfully the tape and tubes are in place, so I can just put it back where it was and secure things better.

I went ahead and did the LCD screen side cable reset with no new results. Attempting to hook it up to an external monitor was fruitless again as well, as it never picks up a signal (goes right to standby), and never gives any indication that anything is loading.

I've still got the optical drive suggestion to go, even if it may be a longshot, but otherwise have gone over the LCD related choices. I'll give that a go in the morning!

 

I plugged the TV tuner cable into my wireless card's second antenna connector, gave me better signal and longer range

 

I never thought about that, I bet it would work too. Both antennas go up to the two clips on the top of the LCD

As far as other problems, try pulling the BIOS Battery out of your system, and try removing the main battery and ac power, and let the system discharge. Than try powering it up again.
You can also try the memory. If you have one bad memory card the system will not run properly, so try testing one memory card at a time.
If you have the D900K, it supports PC2100, PC2700, and PC3200
If you have the D900T, it supports DDRS PC3200, PC4200, and PC5300

K-TRON

 

It's a D900T as according to the now all too familiar underside of the case. So I went down the list:

--Pulled the optical drive out with no new results, in or replaced. It brought back old memories though, since that was the first part to burn out on me way back when.

--Battery discharge doesn't do anything, but I've tried that once before so that wasn't all that unexpected, but I tried again just in case.

--Sadly trying individual sticks of RAM also turned up no solution. I even popped in some of the old original sticks I had to be sure, and tried each of the slots individually as well, as I couldn't recall if there was a specific order they need to be slotted in. I just learn this stuff as I go, and forget it just as promptly apparently.

I still need to go out and get a battery to replace the old BIOS battery (which is the CMOS battery under the keyboard correct?) which I'll do ASAP. Instructions for doing so in the tech guides say to write down the data associated with it, since it will reset while unpowered, but of course I can't do that. Should that be of any concern to me?


I have to give my thanks to all of you for at least helping me get over most of my phobia toward rooting around in a laptop. I think I've now removed and replugged everything up to the mobo I think!



Seems like it's leading toward a part replacement after all, though I wish I had a few spares around to help me figure out which. Fronting the cash and finding it was the wrong part has been my biggest worry. Any more suggestions or recommendations?

I've noticed when the laptop is powered on, the processing indicator light near the LCD comes on and stays lit. I seem to recall it blinks on and off as things load during normal start up. Though if it did so during the earliest stages or not I couldn't say, but it never seems to go beyond that point.

 

I do not remember the bios battery number off hand, it is under the keyboard. Usually it is CR2032 in most desktops, so it is probably the same on yours.
Make sure to get the same battery, because it needs to fit in the holder, and source 3V of power.

Where are you located?
I am in upstate new york,
Gophn is in california,
megszalott is in budapest,
bobnova - unsure

If you were close by, I could test your graphics card on my machine. I would not mind very much. It only takes like 20 minutes.

The only thing it could be now is the actual motherboard or the graphics card.
Usually one can figure if its the graphics card or the motherboard based on a few things like fan, beeps and indicator lights.
I have never had the system beep on me, other than when the Bios was corrupt, so I think beep codes are out of the picture.
If the motherboard works, the cpu and gpu will get warm, and the fan should kick on after a few minutes.
If the motherboard is dead nothing will happen at all.
When the graphics dies the system will try to turn on, and shut itself off when it sees that their is a problem.
The D900T/D900K will not startup with the graphics card removed.

It seems like your system does turn on, but shuts off, which leads me to believe that your graphics card is dead.
A new card may cost between $300-500.
Its up to you if you want to invest that in your machine. I personally would not.
If you live close to any of us D900T/D900K users we can test your graphics card. That will at least let you know if its the gpu or motherboard.

K-TRON

 

--Sadly the replacement BIOS battery is also a no-go. Easy enough to find, buy, and swap at least.

Much appreciate the help offer, but sadly I'm as remote as I can get in the states, surrounded by ocean in Hawaii. It limits your tech support options a good deal, let me assure you!

As you suggest, the likelihood of it being the motherboard is more remote than the graphics card theory, since the system turns on and stays there, with fans and everything. Is there any possibility of it being the CPU? I'm not sure what errors on that end would entail. Though it didn't suffer notable surface damage like the Nvidia, it too was rather scant on thermal grease remains before I replaced it.

As the signs point largely toward the graphics card, I'll mull over the option of purchasing one of the compatible replacements with them. I think I've seen a go 7800 for about $300, so if they're interested, I'll give it a go, and follow up here for the sake of completion!

Of course any further suggestions or comment in the meantime are happily taken under advisement, but the easy options seem to be mostly used up.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

sounds like the system is not posting due to a critical hardware failure....
- Videocard module .... most likely
- Motherboard .... possible.

I recommend to find a D900T/D900K videocard module to test with.

 

It is worth noting that my m7700 fried the motherboard and the fans worked just fine.

The bits it toasted (i think, at least) was the CPU power supply doodads that are cooled by the cpu heatsink.
It'd start up, screen would backlight but stay black, and it would just sit there forever. The fans would come on and everything.
New motherboard, works great.
Early on in the failing it would run until the main heatsink reached 91*f then seize up.


Hey actually, was the a strip of blue thermal tape on top of four (five?) black boxes right next to the CPU?

The CPU itself has excellent thermal protection, it'll intentionally crash itself and stop functioning before it melts, so i doubt it's the issue.
If the tape is gone though it may well be those little power boxes, i wasn't able to find enough data to actually test them on mine though.

 

Since there is no video during boot, the video card could be defective as it may have overheated. Check this website for parts that may be available for your system.

 

all i get is bad response from server....

 

the site works, but it is just a useless site. Seriously, why mention the link when they do not have either the motherboard or the graphics card for it.
You may want to look at Z-Tronics, website and see what they have for you. I know they have D900T boards, and graphics cards.
I believe they have a $95 shop fee, where they can test all of the parts in your system individually.
They have decent prices, but the parts are used. When you get a part from them test it and make sure it works, if it doesnt return it ASAP.

Here are the motherboards you need: Try to get a 6.x revision D900T board
http://www.ztronics.com/en/motherboards/alienware-laptop.html

Here are the graphics you need:
http://www.ztronics.com/en/alienware-parts/video-cards/notebook/alienware-m7700-geforce-go-7800-gtx-256-video-module/flypage.tpl.html

or
http://www.ztronics.com/en/alienware-parts/video-cards/notebook/nvidia-geforce-fx-go-6800-256-mb-clevo-d900-series-laptops/flypage.tpl.html

Your system will work with A lot of cards.
It can use a nvidia geforce go 6800, go 6800ultra, go 7800GTX, go 7900GTX, go 7950GTX, quadro FX1400M, quadro FX2500M.
I believe the ATi X800 works in it. I know their was a ATi card available, I think it was the X800, but I could be wrong.
I know all of the nvidias I mentioned will work.
Just make sure you get a Clevo D900T/K compatible graphics card.

K-TRON

 

the 7950gtx is the most powerful listed and it runs games pretty well even fallout 3 and hl2 and tf2

 

The only thing I should add, is if you choose a 7900GTX, 7950GTX, or the FX2500M, make sure you have a 220watt power brick, and a 6.x series motherboard.
If you have a 180watt power supply, dont put anything more powerful than a 7800GTX in it.

The 7950GTX is powerful, but even with the 3.8 GHz processor, the cpu is by far the bottleneck of the system.

K-TRON

 

BOBNOVA: The area next to the CPU itself, which part of the heatsink sits on, there was a long strip (actually two strips) of thermal tape in place. There was a little tearing on one, like it wasn't cut properly, or somehow became removed, though I didn't see anything free inside or in the area, nor does anything appear to be loose in the laptop itself. It was a tiny gap in the protection. I was concerned upon seeing it, but since the CPU wasn't brought up much, I hadn't thought of it to mention. Here's pics.




I cleaned it off a little bit and tried to fill the gap with some excess I had, but there is still a spot of non-coverage. I'd thought about trying to locate some tape to replace it, but don't have much in the way of sources nearby.
___________________________________

They seem somewhat interested in trying the videocard solution, so i think I'll be going that route. If it turns out to be the motherboard...well that's a bridge I hope not to cross.

I feel a little dense asking, but where would one find the Watt rating on the brick? I scoured the whole thing as well as the underside of the laptop, but couldn't find any indication, only Voltage.

Would you be able to point me to where on the motherboard the series number is listed as well (assuming it is)? A cursory glance didn't turn anything up, but it would be easy for me to overlook it. Sadly my Alienware provided itemized list is rather scant on details like these.

 

It'll say 20volts and either 9 amps or 11 amps.
9 amps X 20 volts = 180 watts.
11 is of course 220 watts.

This is output, not input, input will be like 120v or something.

 

The wattage of the power brick is very simple to calculate.
Wattage = Volts x Amperes
I have a 220 watt power brick, so the output is 20V at 11Amperes.
20x11 = 220 watts.

Here is an image. Just multiply the two values you have where I have underlined in red:



The motherboard version should be written on a sticker, on the memory slots. Their should be a small sticker which says V5.2 (this means version 5.2) Yours may have different numbers. The only other place I have seen the number is on a sticker, on the motherboard. This is usually next to the memory slots as well.

The tape you mentioned is just to conduct heat from the cpu voltage regulators to the heatsink.
The voltage regulators do not get extremely hot, and they are usually rated for 200C, so you are not going to destroy them. Its a good idea to replace the thermal tape, but that may be hard to get where you are.

K-TRON

 

Good thing to have checked, as both the brick and board require older cards. Guess it's a bit moot toward the higher end any way, they don't need too much power there. But since I could have gotten the 7950 for about the same as the 7800 in theory, I figured I'd check it out.

Thanks for the tips, good to learn something so basic that seems to have eluded me this long!