Ask Alienware's General Manager, Frank Azor, Anything on AWA! - Part Two!!

Spot on. Let Intel and OEM's faff about with BGA mobile cpu chips if they want to do so for whatever reason - Dell could give Alienware a flagship notebook with a desktop socket for cpu and be done with that side of things....at least if they did that, they could maybe return to their slogan of "Most powerful laptop in the Universe" - especially if they can "in house" their own MXM cards as well.

Of course, their business model may no longer be geared up to providing the very best, more so catering to the average Joe. Such a shame if that really is the case.

 

From what I hear Intel is attempting to make desktop CPU's BGA as well...

 

Yup Skylake is heavily rumored to be the last LGA desktop chips.

Not that it really even matters because its a whole new socket so current gen owners are out of luck in that respect.

 

http://wccftech.com/intel-offer-socketed-cpus-2016-skymont-onward-chips-ship-bga-packages/

The article is two years old, but now that I think about it, perhaps this is why retailers are already adopting the BGA format: it won't be a complete shocker to the consumers.

That's my thinking, at least.

Alienware's all about that bandwagon now...

 

I've heard that too. I don't see it happening on an enthusiast platform though. There are already mini MBs that have a setup like that. At least all the MB vendors will put up a good fight if they do try something bigger.

 

What difficulties did you encounter?
I successfully installed a Gigabyte Z68X motherboard in my area-51 ALX, three years ago. Back then, I was using the original 1200W PSU (Corsair rebrand) that came with the system, which had the 10-pin connector. I had no issues getting everything to work, just like on the original X58 motherboard (Alien FX lights, Active venting etc..)
Not long ago, I replaced both the motherboard, with a Gigabyte X99 and a Corsair PSU. Wiring the cable to the new PSU was easy, the voltages you need, for the Alien FX board 10pin connector, are standard 3, 5 and 12V.
The latest version of Command Center, for the Area-51 ALX (2.6.17.0), installed with no issues whatsoever and everything works like a charm.

I would gladly volunteer to test it out mate.

 

Might've been wrong then.

I've been told that
1. There's a specific version of CC that will install in non Alienware motherboard, and anything higher won't.
2. The Alienware Area51 interior setup makes standard power cables from PSU too short compared to the Dell cables. (But standard ones can still be used if you don't tuck them in the cable management slot).
3. There is a 10 pin power connector to the light board of the Alienware Area 51 - which no one else uses and you have to get a modified power cable for standard power supply


CMIIW

 

apparently there is a mad scientist who will fashion one for you

 

Cass-ole on the dell forums will make you 10 pin, and the full harness kit on request for certain PSUs

 

The sales representatives are constantly lying to me about calling back or not being able to email me a quote. Have to try 2-3 times before getting through to a reasonable person. It's just pathetic. I thought Dell going private would make things better...

 

Just recently I had an inquiry with a Dell agent who said he would call me back in 2-3 days with an answer. I waited a week and recieved no call. So I talked to a manager who promised to personally look into it for me and said "Because i'm promising you, you will recieve a call back by friday." It's sunday now and no call. I have the call with him recorded, too.

 

I'm currently awaiting a callback as well. Have the chat and emails as record.

 

Don't hold your breath! You have to keep bothering them. I've personally given up at this point. Even the representatives on this forum are just for show. Like this guy above. What a joke

 

It's the weekend. The reps on the forums don't work on the weekends. Wasserman or Porras should be able to get to you tomorrow.
However, I don't think publicly insulting person is wise or fair. You can call out the company, sure, but the man working for the company is just as much as a person as you are. If he hasn't done anything wrong, there's no point in berating someone.

 

Ah but you see this was early Thursday! I wouldn't call someone out unless I had evidence I'm just throwing in my problems with support as well. He hasn't gotten back to me and I don't want his help at this point. It's a little late for that. I have surgery early next week so yeah

 

Let's all face it, alienware knew what they were doing when they planned this whole lineup of products, and then the reps coming onto the forums to try and save face, all an act to try butter up some more sales to make sales with. Alienware is not the same as it used to be and those who wish to find the essence of what alienware used to be have to go to places such as clevo/sager and their spin-offs like originpc.

Even alienware's old outstanding customer service reputation has now gone down the drain with these new uninformed or untrained or plain not-caring customer service representatives.

 

Intentionally or not, Dell is slowly killing the name by these moves. I could understand BGA given that the entire market is going this way (and it will hit desktops soon enough though there is some hope that it won't be a 100% move). I've often suspected that deep down, with Alienware born out of people who left Dell which then turned around and bought Alienware, that over time the name would be submerged beneath Dell intentionally to the point there was no real identity or clear distinction with the brand. At the point they have watered the name down enough to where sales are low enough, they will cast off the brand entirely. The lack of options these days, coupled with the ridiculous quality control issues and a clear unwillingness to do simple things to please customers like BIOS upgrades to allow the use of newer video cards with their older MXM models just shows an exploitative mindset. Business is fundamentally exploitative, but the current moves practically show a disdain for the customer's viewpoint. A long-time fan, for the first time since joining the pack I am seriously looking over the fence, not due to the BGA issue mainly, but the clear lack of quality control, the decline in options, the slow turn down in flair from the original packaging and manuals, etc. which just cry out "going cheap, get over it" by Dell. I went through three AW 13's before after getting the best unit repaired, I had one that should have been what I got in the first place. I don't hear these same overall manufacturing issues under other vendor's, at least not to the same degree. That being said I will likely bite the bullet and pick up an AW 15 at some point, deal with the issues and live with it this go round but the next time I am feeling all bets are off which I suspect quite a few folks are thinking as well.

 

What upsets me most is the fact that they hide behind media, advertising, and manipulated benchmarks as opposed to addressing the issues we've presented and have proven at the sacrifice of their name and reputation, all to save a few bucks.

For example, when I wrote a review on the Alienware 17 R2 webpage, having owned a few Alienware 17 R1, it was removed because my conclusion stated that the R2 was not an upgrade to the previous generation product. I listed facts, gave proof, and thoroughly explained my opinion. And more recently, in my attempt to inform people on YouTube of the power supply issue and the 980M, my comments were reported and removed.

What word can describe this? Cowardice? If they keep this up, Dell may cut off Alienware altogether and sell it to some private party. I would like to see this ridiculousness ended.

 

The absolute only way our point gets across, is if we hit them where it hurts, which would be profit margins. People need to stop buying Alienware altogether and then MAYBE they will take a hint. All our *****ing and arguing over the internet means nothing to them unless it starts costing them money.

 

Actually Khan told you that wasn't the reason why it was removed.

 

I'm going to be really blunt when saying this, but I remain pessimistic that this tactic will work.

Didn't he also say he was working to get J.Dre's removed review back up?

 

He never said why it was removed. He said he'd look into it and try to get it brought back, and never reported back. At least I never received an "alert" of him quoting my post.

At this point, I don't even care if it's brought back or not. Doesn't make a difference now. The fact that they are hiding these types of reviews or comments is what ticks me off. It's not something you'd expect from a company like Alienware. But I suppose this isn't really "Alienware" anymore.

 

J.Dre since you hate the new alienware so much and you make 20 million posts referencing that hate, why are you looking to buy a new AW 13?

 

I'm not anymore (unless I get a super good deal). Thought things would change, given that Frank Azor actually took the time to come to these forums and address our concerns. But months later, nothing has changed, and things are only becoming worse. So, it was all a smokescreen.

 

Do you really think Frank has all the time in the world to spend on these forums addressing all the same posts saying "BOOO ALIENWARE SUCKS. DELLIENWAREEEEE"? If I were in his shoes I would not come back either. Now, I have spoken with Frank outside of the forum a few times and I know how busy he is. For everyone on here to think he has time to read EVERY concern and EVERY post of people whining or just making up pure BS or giving their 1% of market share opinion, to me, is hilarious. Do you guys want to spend all your time doing reading complaints where people borderline flame your company and product? No, besides it's not his job to do PR in a small enthusiast forum. He came on initially as a gesture of good will, but you guys now take that as him just trying to screw you guys over.

Frank really is a good guy, I have a lot of respect for him, he DOES care about the brand but part of his job is to make the brand money, so he has to make some tough decisions that won't always win everyone over. As far as I'm concerned, he did what he promised in the thread with the PSU thing. He offered to have it looked into and resolved within the week. We had the hybrid bios thing but he even stepped up to LET US have the 240W PSU at no charge.

I don't see how things have become worse, you guys have just become more malcontent with a laptop you don't even own. You don't own it, don't buy it. You don't like it and you own it? Return it.
Hilariously you see people even trying to blame Dell for stuff that are even outside of Dell's controls. You guys will not stop trying to pin everything on them for any reason and that's why we see less replies from the AW staff here now. If you had decided to make this a constructive discussion instead of a witchhunt, we would probably be in a different place. I'm not saying everyone did, just certain people ruined it for the majority.

 

Do you trust so much in what they say?

 

I trust Khan. He hasn't given me a reason to mistrust him, he hasn't said anything that has proven him of not being trustworthy. I spoke with him on the phone and he's a genuine guy. He's just overwhelmed with all the crap you guys are throwing on him at once.

This actually isn't his job, he's doing this as a gesture of good will. He has an actual job to do besides come on here.

 

My lesson is that you should not rely on everything that is said...

 

Nice rant. Not much there is true. I'm sure Frank is a "good guy" but that's irrelevant. I won't speak to Frank's schedule because I don't know it, but I'm sure he's busy. However, I do expect him to stop firing Social Media Team Members (or relocating them) and start having more of them address this community others like it. That's what they are there for. It would also be nice if the members of this group actually knew what they were doing, as Luis does. He's probably the the most senior and knowledgeable Social Media Team Member still active on these forums.

You have either been misinformed or are lying to yourself about this "not being Dell's fault." Who's fault is it? When a company does poorly, management is always held accountable, despite it being directly their fault or not. That's how business works. You are the manager, it is your job to manage the company. So yes, I can blame Frank. And we all have every right to do so because he's the only one that can effectively make the necessary changes to prevent further destruction.

Spoiler: Let me attempt to illustrate what I mean by things "getting worse:"

I've been attempting to purchase a system (maybe once or twice per week) since they came out, and have had countless issues customer service. From personal (first-hand experience), yes, things have gotten much worse, and only getting worse. Just a few issues off the top of my head that I've encountered this past week alone:

1. They don't know much about the products they're selling.
2. They make promises they never keep (or can't keep), including promises to call you back and never do. And if they do, they don't leave messages (like they used to years ago).
3. They tell customers they cannot email quotes to you because they don't have "access to email," which is a bunch of crap.

A representative called me and let the phone ring twice and then hung up. I've had to chat with 3 separate representatives just to get a decent one on the phone of which made a promise to call back today or tomorrow, and I'm skeptical that will even turn out to be true. The first 3 promised a callback but never asked a time, and promised email confirmations but never sent them. The 4th finally did. That is absolutely ridiculous.

And I'm not sure if you read my previous posts regarding them removing comments and hiding, but that's also still going on. Alienware representatives are NOT even informed of the PSU issue, nor are they informing customers of the PSU issue, as you can see from my YouTube comment (which was removed as well, FYI). You can see proof of this here.

The company is in shambles right now, and while Frank may not be directly responsible for it, he is accountable and will be held responsible by his superiors if things turn for the worst. That's just how things work. I'm not blaming Frank for this, but he's one of the few that can do something, and he's not (or at least not effectively). That's why I'm upset. He is either blind to the facts and isn't entirely innocent in all of this, or simply doesn't care enough to do anything. The support page he made for the PSU was clearly not shown or sent out to every Technical Support Agent or any department - they're still selling inadequate power supplies!

He is the only one at Alienware with the authority to save this company (aka. improve through change), and he should be obligated to do so.

 

Just reading this is enough as to why he was acting the way he was (the serious-exaggerated-but-still-serious personality he evoked). I feel concerned as to any rep who comes on here.
Given all that has happened, I see more higher-Alienware activity on Reddit and AWA than on here. While more may not be a lot, it's more than what this forum has recently received.
That said, I think Alienware has too much on their plate given what has happened recently, and not only did they not anticipate this much feedback, but they don't know how to respond to it in a timely manner.

 

Unanswered questions about big ongoing issues are only going to lead to people being frustrated. Dell/Frank/Khan must appreciate this - to show presence and then vanish is akin to relinquishing all responsibility.....that's why people get irked with them. I'm sure that some of this has spilled over into posts than perhaps Khan and Frank may not have liked, or they might feel stressed because of the responses, however it remains that problems still persist and to blank the people who buy their products is not acceptable....especially as they made the effort to come here in the first place. Turning ones back on a problem does not make it go away, it just makes that problem bigger.....and your potential customer base even more annoyed.

At least they should have the courage or decency to update the enthusiasts on this forum - that's a big cop-out if they do not.

As for the PSU issue, if you live in US/Canada, sure....great......if you don't, the problem is still a major problem. I don't care for talk about "yeah, but it takes time for EU certification to supply a 240w PSU...." - if it needs it, just damned well sort it out.

 

Do not forget that most owners of the new AW laptops in countries outside the United States can not get a 240W power supply anyway. This means that these AW Laptop is crippled for these owners. They must download a hybrid bios that are unusable.

 

I am equally pessimistic, due to the fact that there are many uneducated consumers that buy whatever has the best ad campaign or highest price tag. This is the only way to get their full attention. However, executing the plan is probably never going to happen. I will sum up my feelings on the matter concisely: RIP Alienware.

 

It is no wonder they are defending the use of such Hq processors although they throttled under max load .. Everyone thinks their own children are pretty even if everyone else says they are ugly.

 

If you what to look at the bright side of the PSU debacle, the 15 R2, whenever it comes out, would be bundled with the 240w PSU with the high end Nvidia and AMD GPU. So... there's that. Not much since it'll be a while since mobile Skylake comes around, but it's something.

 

Even if you're in the States, it doesn't mean you'll get a PSU or even be made aware of the issue. There are many people on YouTube that live in the U.S. without a clue as to why this happens and are returning their systems.

As my post says, that you quoted, even the representatives are unaware of the PSU throttling. The page Frank made was left to be buried in the hundreds of support issues Alienware has online - nothing more than an illusion.

If you have the link, great! If not, good luck trying to convince uninformed representatives this issue is even real!

 

Being forced to install a hybrid bios on a new laptop because Dell engineers have not done their job of testing the laptop they have developed properly before sale is a scandal.... it is the same as selling a new car that lack sufficient given horsepower than it should have.
It's pretty ugly reading when you see the result of the work Dell engineers have done with the new models...

 

This assumes they actually learn from their mistakes instead of replicating or exacerbating them. It's hard to say if that level of optimism is warranted. But, it may not make any difference in the grand scheme of things. If Skylake is another round of crippled low-TDP BGA turd CPUs, it won't matter because all of the "gaming notebooks" sold (regardless of brand) with a Skylake CPU will be nothing more than a disposable, unloved, worthless, hybrid pile of mainstream belly button (colon blow) trash with a lame attempt at greatness by tossing in a discrete GPU, and/or a desk-tethered eGPU contraption.

 

I think the Alienware-heads aren't dumb enough to repeat the PSU-backlash again. The worst that can happen is that they offer a lower wattage PSU (say 150w) and not offer the highest-end GPU (say the 1070m is the highest for the 15 R2). I mean, if MSI learned their lesson, I think Alienware can too.
However (and I'm surprised no one asked me about this), I'm only talking about the AW15. I have little idea what the 17 R3 will be like. It may be the same like the R2, or it may be a dual-GPU laptop once again (in the context of Alienware's 17" laptop offerings). Or they may can it and go with something else entirely.
With BGA desktop CPUs, the R series, being a more prominent part of the Broadwell and possibly the Skylake lines, all that is left for the old owners of big laptops is to bear hug onto their laptops. I wouldn't be surprised if Alienware did offer desktop CPUs on their biggest laptop, but the CPUs being the i5-66ooR and i7-6700R. Kneed into the stomach, as some would say.

 

Engineering incompetence, lies and misrepresentation will continue to be a problem with OEMs. Recognition and ignorance will continue to be a problem on the consumer end. If there is one thing we can count on, with anything marketed as a "gaming notebook," the wannabe enthusiast gamerboys will eat it up for no reason that it's something shiny and new; then turn right around and whine like a schizophrenic sissy girl in forums about their performance problems, spewing hate on their OEMs for selling them a product they should have already identified as being a pathetic piece of garbage.

 

The fact of the matter is the new Alienwares are fundamentally flawed... The excuses they've given is almost jokelike for the 180W PSU.. They tried to save a few $ here and couldn't even do it properly.. For everyone claiming that other brands are doing this, MSI's GS60 has a 970M whereas this has a 980M.. Clevo's 180W PSU can actually supply the required power however the Dell's one just cannot.. To sell half broken junk, offer a fix and make it impossible to get everywhere is inexcusable..

Frank and Khan deserve the flak.. They promised to spread the fix everywhere and then backtracked... Not to mention, 0 updates about BIOS compatibility problems with 970M/980M with AW17/18 etc which they promised they'd release a beta firmware... I know Khan has been around but hasn't posted a single thing since Jan/feb...

For all the apologists such as @Game7a1, please stop making excuses... There are no reasons for Alienware to ignore us.. We purchased their products because they're upgradeable and these screw ups with the BIOS etc is just not justified... Sure they want to make their current products crap, but if you put down $5000 for an AW18 and want to upgrade it, you just can't do it as easily as you were able to... In this sense, Alienware is no different from MSI/Gigabyte/Asus now..

As for Clevo, they are my last hope however with their machines having locked down vBIOS's, I'm personally thinking very hard about buying another Clevo laptop although I'm excited of having one with a skylake desktop CPU+dual GPUs.... I'm really considering instead of buying a new table and then building a Skylake desktop...

 

Just want to chime in, P650SG which is the 980M model of the p650SE actually does ship with a 180 watt charger so that is incorrect.

 

I'm an apologist? Since when? There are things I don't agree with what Alienware is doing, but that doesn't mean I can't give my sympathies to those like Khan. I'm not high-ho praising or defending Alienware for everything, but I certainly don't want them to be worse than they are currently.
Geez, my days on the internet are getting worse.

 

As a matter of necessity and the palpable lack of acceptable options in the marketplace, I think I am probably going to be done with high performance laptops. Things are getting way too stupid with the focus on thin and light disposable under-powered notebook trash with crap hardware welded to the mobo. Unless someone releases a laptop with X99 8-core desktop CPU and dual MXM modules with enthusiast-level overclocking capabilities and ample power handling capacity, my P570WM is probably the last high performance laptop that I am going to buy.

I simply will not tolerate a single GPU notebook no matter what kind of CPU it has, and a BGA CPU (even if fully unlocked) or BGA GPU is not even open for consideration. Homey don't play dat. With no hope of AMD ever doing anything respectable in the mobile realm and NVIDIA effectively declaring war on overclocking enthusiasts, things have never been more grim than they are right now. I will go back to building insanely overkill desktops and buy a Chromebook for couch surfing.

If Intel and NVIDIA start playing god and gimping desktops like they have mobile processors, then I will just give up and find a new hobby. I'm not spending any more money on trash with hardware and firmware that blocks me from doing whatever I feel like doing. In the end, I win... my will be done, not theirs. They either provide what I require, or they get no money (or love) from me... pretty simple.

I think Brother @TomJGX is just frustrated with excuses. Don't take it personal or it will grate on you. I understand how he feels, because all of the excuses, (or what we perceive as excuses,) by people that view themselves as enthusiasts is really frustrating. Kool-Aid drinkers are a huge part of the reason we are dealing with a mess.

I agree with having sympathy for guys like our buddies @AW Khan and @Alienware-L_Porras. They are, like most of us, employees... part of a business machine, trying to earn a living, and doing what they are told and allowed to do. We don't have to like what they are doing, but I certainly do not hate them or hold them responsible for the acts of their employer. I do things every day that I don't like or agree with. As long as those are not illegal acts, I follow the marching orders for a paycheck... same thing going on here. I don't drink the Kool-Aid, but I do cash the checks and use the benefits.

 

I'm with this guy. Gaming enthusiasts are officially being cut out (or forced to change).

 

You're probably right. Main reason why I stick around these parts is to help out and learn, not get caught in drama (no offense to anyone).
The problems currently happening may not heavily affect owners such as myself because we've mainly used soldered CPUs and/or GPUs (my 13 and m14xR2 come to mind). Even still, the direction of OEMs and Nvidia/Intel is haunting, and us small-laptop users need to keep an open eye out on the news. I'd rather upgrade my SSDs and RAM, please. Thank goodness I can still remove the battery even if it takes a bit more effort.

 

Yea this laptop will be my last. Going full desktop next build, going to sli titanx in a microatx with Acer gsync

 

Update on this case: All recorded in chat logs (saved in my email):

It has been 48 hours now, the maximum time was said I need to wait for a phone call. No calls have been made to me. So, as anyone would, I followed up via the online chat and wow, what happened next is absolutely shocking... This is by far the worst experience I've ever had with Alienware/Dell to date.

Spoiler: My latest experience with Delienware... A somewhat lengthy read...

Sunday (April 19th): I spoke with a few representatives online, none of whom would help me, but I finally got to a supervisor. I knew it was a supervisor because of the title next to the name on the chat (e.g. TIP_SUP_<name>). This supervisor was going to help me with a price match deal, which was on Amazon.com. (The system on Dell.com is $1899.99 before taxes. The deal on Amazon was $1399.99 after taxes.) As I wanted to purchase directly from Alienware, I went to them per their "price-match guarantee." During our conversation, the representative compared the specifications and declared it to be valid for the price match. As I expected, I was put on hold and told to wait a few moments while this "supervisor's" manager was consulted. When the rep. returned, I was told that this second manager needed to approve this deal with a third manager, and that this would take 1-2 days to process. Considering the time, I asked if I could still get the deal even if it has expired. The answer was yes. I was assured the deal would still be valid regardless of it being over or not. And this representative even told me they took a screen shot and submitted it along for the approval. So, I was fairly happy and decided to wait for the call... giving up my opportunity to snag this deal on Amazon.

Monday (April 20th): I have not received a phone call, so I chat in with a representative and ask about the deal. This was a completely different representative. And to my amazement, they said, "Yeah I see a note here saying 24-48 hours - it's a length of time we need for Managers approval about price matching."I then asked if I should wait, and they said, "Yeah, I suggest you just wait but let me check if we can process this now." The conversation ends in them being unable to do so...

Today (April 21st): I have not received any emails or phone calls regarding the deal. So, I chat with a representative (again). This time they tell me there is no record of the deal or any case number affiliated with approval.

And to add to this, I was told the following:

And I answered,

The agents response then was as follows:

And then I was spammed with links to the policy, and statements of them attempting to get rid of me. They presented me with multiple links and asked if there was anything else they can help me with. I didn't even have time to respond because they were spamming the chat with links... I said, "Whoa... wait!" and managed to get them to stay in the chat while I asked questions. All of my questions from this point were ignored, and I was told to refer to the policy. I demanded to speak with a supervisor, but was denied until about another 10 minutes had passed and then was automatically disconnected and reconnected with a supervisor. This supervisor explained to me that the policy does not support such price matches, and told me that proper sanctions against the original supervisor would be taken. And after about 5-10 minutes of chatting with this supervisor, having expressed my disappointment (multiple times) considering I was lied to for days by multiple representatives, including supervisors, we have come to the conclusion that I am "SOL."

Several lies later, by multiple individuals, including supervisors, I am left with nothing but disappointment. When I asked why I was guaranteed this in the first place if it never qualified, no answer was given - only links to the policy shoved in my face.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the new Alienware. I've been a loyal customer and Alienware owner since 2012, and I've had more than a dozen conversations with a dozen representatives, all of whom actually cared and were able to share laugh with me over some small talk while awaiting approvals, etc., but that's all behind us now. This new Alienware clearly does not care. Never will I ever recommend Alienware systems again. Customer service was something I have said (in the past) to be the best part of Alienware, but no more. This is absolutely unacceptable and completely unexpected from a company like Dell. They need to get their act together. Dell becoming a private company was the worst possible thing - there is no transparency, no respect, and no accountability.

P.S. I did not share any names or chat logs per the rules. Not sure if "paraphrasing" is against the rules, but I hope not. People need to know who they're dealing with.

 

Sorry to hear that, Dre...seems like the "my word is my bond" phrase is something Dell rep's aren't trained up on......they might be more familiar with the phrase "Let me falsely promise you the earth to get a sale...."

 

They've fallen to a whole new low. It's unbelievable.

Even though I'm still in need of a laptop, Alienware is at the bottom of my list. Clevo/Sager has just moved to spot #1. The review @HTWingNut did on the NP9752 has swayed my interests. I appreciate his time reviewing products, and always will.

My gaming future may not even include laptops. I've got a lot to think about. This entire market is in complete disarray.