Ask Alienware's General Manager, Frank Azor, Anything on AWA! - Part Two!!

No like I said currently Alienware serves MY needs. When they stop serving my needs, I'll happily move somewhere else. I've only ever owned two alienware products the R1 and the R2. When it comes time for me to replace my laptop I'll look around just like I always do, if Clevo suits my needs better (or the same and its cheaper) then I'll buy a Clevo. I have no loyalty for Dell or AW to make me keep buying their products for no reason.

This has got nothing to do with sheep or mediocrity. My needs are different to yours, get over it. I don't expect you to buy an alienware 17 R2 because it clearly doesn't meet your needs..

 

Sorry, bud....its got everything to do with mediocrity and sheep. Just because you (and others) are happy with a mediocre product because it suits your needs, it does not mean everyone else is. If you are happy, great - don't expect everyone else to be singing and dancing.......I'm sure there are lots of people out there who are happy eating offal, especially if they've never had a steak.

 

So that's exactly what I said?

Something that suits my needs doesn't have to suit your needs. We are two different people with two different opinions on what suits us best.

I'm not expecting you to like what I like, just like you shouldn't expect me to like what you like. Doesn't make either of us sheep or the products we like mediocre. Just that we like different things and that we expect different things from the stuff we buy.

Grow up and learn how the world works and that people are different, seriously. This has gotten so incredibly childish it's pathetic.

 

There are several morals to this story. It took the fearless honesty of a child to point out the fine robe was bogus and expose the emperor's nakedness. Before that, everyone else was afraid to speak out and pretended to believe the invisible (non-existent) robe was something special. Some may have even believed the imaginary robe was real. In the end, the emperor's nakedness is exposed and he faces the open ridicule of the people.

Some big corporations may not care what their customers think. Others find success in catering to the needs or wishes of customers first and shareholders second. The latter is proven to be the best strategy for long term success. If shareholders are clamoring to make a fast buck and get out while the stock value is still up, the former might be the best approach for the stockholders to achieve their goals. Regardless of which approach they find more attractive, they all react to decline in public opinion, ridicule and drops in revenue. What better way to get their attention than to enlighten the crowd to the fact that the amazing product (or service) is a pile of junk or inferior to the products and services they replace? If the dissenters simply shut up and go away, nothing will ever get better. The squeaky wheel is the one that gets the grease.

 

Two rather different things isn't it? The invisible robe doesn't suit anyone needs, and it doesn't even do the job it was supposed to do at all. Its imaginary.

The new r2s may be inferior to YOU because of your needs but they aren't inferior to the majority of people and their needs. If it becomes inferior to the majority and they still keep buying it then they're sheep or diehard fanboys.

Its one thing to state your opinion but when you feel the need to disrespect everyone else and make fun of them for buying something that suits their needs perfectly that's when it becomes childish.

 

I'm going to look at this line every time I come into this thread and think, "Raised your hands if you violated this statement? Be honest now."
Seriously, the violation of this line was one of the reasons I closed the thread I created about the AMA. I already stated earlier that we shouldn't attack the threads if they have done nothing wrong (of course, I find no wrong if the people have done very wrong. No rebuttals there, unless you have a twisted means of attacking, then... no). Yet we're fine doing it with each other, just like when we did it months agos... or weeks ago. Time really hasn't flown fast, has it?
(My definition of being a butt may differ from another's, but it shouldn't be that different from everybody's).

 

So, which is it? We (enthusiasts that are an irrelevant minority) are all wrong for liking different products, or stupid for thinking Dell cares what we think? Or, we are mean and disrespectful for not drinking the Kool-Aid and pretending the new Alienware systems are a good product by own definition? I have not seen anyone point to you or anyone else and ridicule your decisions to buy one. In fact, I have seen multiple expressions that everyone is entitled to an opinion or a personal preference. I have not seen anyone here point to another individual and criticize them for buying one. All I see is people that do not like the new machines expressing their dissatisfaction with the product, and a few people taking a personal offense to those expressing that they don't like the product. Which is more childish or ridiculous?

There is a gap in their product line. The pendulum has swung in the opposite direction from where it used to be in terms of quality, performance and service. Dell needs to hear that. They already know some people are OK with the new products. It seems like what you are advocating is censorship. Saying we are disrespectful for expressing a different opinion is like the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?

When people are passionate about things, that potential always exists. It is when people interpret the expressions of differing opinions as a personal attack or tear into someone else for having a different view that things get out of hand. There is potentially room everyone at the Alienware table. The question is whether or not everyone likes what is being served. I don't, so I'm not eating what is being served, and I am telling the host I don't care for it. Maybe next time they can offer enough variety that everyone will want to stay and enjoy what is being served. It we don't let them know it's not OK, they will continue on the same path. If they really don't care, we will figure that out by what they do (or don't do) next and stop coming back to the table. What we do not need are self-edifying lectures on business or economics by those that are perfectly content with status quo. That is a subtle form of disrespect.

 

I was reading the last couple of pages of differing opinions and just wanted to chime in real quick. I understand exactly what you are saying Cookie about going more to the mainstream as the end goal is always to make more money. Having said that, it does not really apply to Alienware. The vast majority of people that have bought Alienware over the years were enthusiasts. Alienware products have always been priced out of the mainstream market so enthusiasts willing to spend a minimum of a couple grand were and still are the only people who bought them. In fact, Alienware has never had a mainstream product until the x51 and now the Alpha. The mainstream people bought Dell products. Or more recently the Asus gaming laptops. They did not spend 3 grand or more on an Alienware laptop or desktop.

I am in the disappointed camp with this. Actually I think it's a big load of **** what they are doing with Alienware and I wish they would be sold to someone who would return them to their part glory. However I am happy for those that are not able to get a cheaper Alienware and have it make them happy. It's just not the company or quality of product Alienware was built on and known for. Certainly not the same Alienware that I looked at for years drooling and praying I could someday own. They were once "The Holy Grail" they're not now and I honestly don't think there is a place for them in the market they are moving toward. It's not a huge market either and there are already enough companies offering other products there.

 

I never said you are wrong did I? I just said you guys are a minority, I never said your opinions are irrelevant or that you need to shut up.

And stop acting like nobody else on this aw forum is making fun of others. There are numerous posts by a lot of members insulting others by calling them sheep, making fun of their products. And you know that so don't try to take the high ground with your "we only stated our opinions"

There's a difference between constructive criticism and some of the stuff that gets said around here. Its also the reason why people like Frank and khan have left, you had people insulting their intelligence, their ethics, their job etc. That's not constructive criticism by a long shot. And that's the childish bit and that same thing applies to people on the other side of this argument and yes that does include me for the couple of posts I've made which were wrong.

I'm not saying that's you in particular but there are a lot of posts that prove your statement wrong. And judging by how many threads and posts have been closed / deleted pretty much proves my point.

Like I also said I find it sad that alienware got rid of the Aw18. I thought it was a great laptop even though it didn't meet my needs.

 

Yes, a lot of posts have been deleted and threads closed because of rude and insulting people that cannot have an open discussion without personalizing or taking offense. Some of it has been clearly malicious, and those folks have been admonished against it where it is obvious. Some of it has been adults acting like children.

So, let me be the first to say that I am sorry if anyone was offended by any comment I made. My criticism is directed toward the companies and their lackluster products, not any of their customers. They need to hear it, I want them to pay attention and get better. But, if anything I said was framed in a way that felt like a personal attack, please forgive me.

That's the closest I can come to a round of Kumbaya, but it's sincere.

 

And I am sorry too, there have been posts that I've made that were wrong and really shouldn't have been said.

And I feel like that's important. You should criticize something you don't like and in one of my original posts in the other topic I said that people need to email dell and get their opinions heard if you feel like your needs can be better served.

I may disagree with your opinion on the current products just like you might disagree with mine and that's fine and neither of us needs to shut up about it. Well to be fair the same arguments back and forth are a bit old now but

At the end of the day dell may or may not listen but that's out of any of our hands and all I can really say is that compared to other OEMS dell does listen much more. But you have to be constructive, insulting frank and khan will pretty much mean they stop listening to your opinion and ignore you. I honestly find it a bit sad that they've left because it was a very nice thing for them and the alienware social media team to do. I can't see clevo or asus or MSI doing that.

 

I agree with your comments about Frank and Khan. I have even defended Dell/Alienware employees publicly and shown respect to them repeatedly. It is sad that they are not coming back, but understandable that they are trying to keep their heads down to avoid being shot. I can only hope that they are reading what is being said, taking notes, and formulating a new business strategy. Being out of touch with the customers that made the Alienware brand relevant is what got them into this sort of mess to begin with. If I were a betting man, I would bet that if they had a chance to do things over a second time it might have turned out a lot better. Hindsight is always 20/20 and everyone deserves a second chance.

 

Maybe they are. Khan has been posting on AWA and Reddit for a couple of days now, and even helping out a bit with some users. It may be due to the GTA V hype, but it's something.
He's also visited this forum earlier today. About 6 hours ago. I'm willing to think he does a weekly check on this place to see what's up.

 

That's good to know they are at least still following the thread. It's pretty obvious they don't have any good news to report, even though it would be nice not to have to read between the lines. Hopefully their heads are down creating something spectacular. But I have my doubts. I'm sure the Dell higher ups dictate what parts they can use to build a new machine, and on that parts list is all the disposable soldered junk from handshakes with Intel and Nvidia.
I got the sense that AWKahn knew exactly what the enthusiasts wanted but no freedom to design it. I guess all we can do is hope for is a return to a uncompromized flagship product.

 

Even Acer comes with a laptop with dual graphics cards now. What have Dell working with in the past? Developed and launched a graphics amplifier and a thin gaming laptop. LoL. Dell removed the laptop with Dual graphics cards from their line, while competitors launches laptops with sli graphics. Last year Msi and now Acer. Acer will surely come with BGA hardware(This writes Notebook Check; There was no information whether the CPU will be a mobile or a desktop component, which leaves room for speculation), but they come at least with a laptop with dual graphics.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-s...-and-the-Predator-Gaming-Tablet.141169.0.html

 

Why can't you forget about peoples needs and what suits them for a minute, forget about shareholders and Dells bottom line and how they are now targeting its customer base and simply focus on the product/s that are currently being offered by Alienware as opposed to what they used to offer?. No one is berating or disrespecting anyone for choosing what is suitable for their own needs - I personally don't give a rats butt what you deem as being suitable for you, or anyone else for that matter. Is that me being disrespectful to you? - nope, it's not. Is it me making fun of you or your choices? - again, no. It's me being disrespectful to the stuff that Dell have deemed fit to churn out, however, if that's how you want to interpret such comments, what should we all do? - not say them in fear of causing offence to you, simply because you are content with a lesser product?

What is happening here (and on some of the other threads) is that people are slating an overwhelmingly backwards move in terms of the product itself from the last iteration that Alienware had, specifically concerning their flagship model. I've called the current flagship mediocre because it is in comparison. Looking simply at the facts, its clear as day to see what Dell have sacrificed in an effort to appeal a wider customer base. We have:

1. No more dual card option - other vendors still offer this
2. No ability to change cpu/gpu - other vendors still offer this
3. No aluminium casing - was one of Alienwares distinct features, now just plastic like every other
4. No extreme cpu option - other vendors still offer this, even desktop processors
5. No optical drive - want to watch your blu ray movies? - Dell don't think you should.
6. Capped memory at 16gb vs 32gb - okay, not a big one for gamers but many used their machines for much more intensive applications that required 32gb
7. Poorer gpu performance - outgoing 880m's perform better than the current top offering of a single 980m
8. Not significantly thinner or lighter to warrant some of the above changes - even though the ODD has gone and MXM/sockets, it's by no means competitively thin
9. Having to chain you 'portable' notebook to a band-aid desktop sized eGPU if you want to get increased performance that would actually be better than the older flagship. Not exactly a great selling point if you want mobile performance.

And that's just off the top of my head. These changes only make Alienware more and more like the mediocre plastic notebooks offered by other vendors. I can't see that being a forwards step for anyone, except maybe Mr. Dell and his bank balance if the majority of consumers are happy to drink it up and accept what is an inferior product to what was offered previously.

Getting back on topic, the fact that there has been no response for a loooong time by ANY Dell employee or representative is disconcerting to say the least. Why even bother showing a presence in the thread in the first place if all you are going to do is abandon it when questions and concerns are raised? - I've seen many people call the AMA a 'marketing gimmick' etc etc. I agree, some posts may have been harsh towards Frank and Co., but come on.....these guys are adults and they should be able to take some of it on the chin. Of course, they should not endure personal attacks, but I don't think I saw anyone making any of those kind of comments towards them. Defending their 'disappearing act' with comments akin to "you've hurt their feelings" is a bit weak in my book.

 

Uhh... what?
" Dual GPU solutions, like Nvidia SLI, were ruled out. The prices of the products should be more than competitive based on Acer's current pricing strategy. One GPU solution would be the Nvidia GeForce GTX 980M. Both models will support integrated G-Sync, so the choice of a Nvidia GPU is pretty certain. It is questionable, however, if there will be a big update of the current GeForce 980M before the fourth quarter."
Dual graphics probably means iGPU and dGPU, which isn't even mentioned in the article.

 

The web page may have been mistranslated for @Papusan when using Google translator. I saw that last night and didn't say anything.

For an Acer, that laptop looks pretty nice. It looks like it might even be thick enough to support some fairly decent hardware. Too bad it isn't SLI. Hope they're smart enough to use an MXM GPU. But, it will probably be another wimpy jokebook with a low-TDP BGA CPU like the rest of the crap most vendors are peddling now. The fact that they are not bragging about the CPU horsepower is bad sign that it's probably nothing to get too excited about. If they offer it with an unlocked desktop CPU or mobile Extreme CPU it will probably sell like hotcakes. The "gaming tablet" thing made me laugh, though... an epic oxymoron.

 

And for the Ferrari vs a Fiat sales and all...
How about Bugatti making a 100bhp vehicle while they had made a 1184bhp, W16 Turbocharged Veyron SuperSport just because only 400 were made for a decade, loss ??
Hypthetical pov though, but an another version of the Alienware's current situation....

Instead of "fleeing off / ingoring / act like acknowledged " they should take note that how much respect we (our NBR community) had for this Corp for delivering such amazing beast computers...and offer something in return atleast if couldn't deliver anymore, that's what I expect for being a consumer..

 

Well... this is a good representation of the market. Heavy emphasis on thins and rebrands. Yep... Oh, and a bunch of MSI and Gigabyte (including Aorus for Gigabyte).
*Note: before you get on your BGA-must-die bandwagon because I know you will, question something else first...
Why isn't a dual GTX 980m laptop consider the most power-hungry? Like the MSI GT80 TITAN or the Eurocom X8? I mean, really?

 

I'm not even gonna mention BGA, just this little cherub. Cooling. Take the X7 Pro, for example.......

This review: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/laptop/3596064/aorus-x7-pro-gaming-laptop-review/ has the following comment:

Oh, and here's another review about heat: http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc...-x7-pro-1283922/review#best-price-article-top

There are consequences of going thin and light, other than BGA......which I didn't even mention, right?

 

You typed the word twice, but nope, not really. You win this time but maybe not next time. Maybe...

 

LOL - you got me.

 

Maybe because they are only looking at "thin" models and ignoring the more potent options that are available (as suggested by the title of the article). These are different markets and the machines are made for customers with different interests. There is nothing wrong with that unless those looking for something thin have an unrealistic expectation for an experience with performance at levels that require more bulk and draw more power.

Those dual-GPU models are far more powerful. They are not thin, and they cannot be. One even has a real unlocked and socketed Extreme CPU option, and both of them require some bulk for effective thermal management.

For those that are not preoccupied with a fetish or maybe even some sort of need for a thin form factor, being power-hungry is potentially a key indicator of something that can be expected to deliver superior performance on a level those thin machines are incapable of.

 

I particularly laughed at this comment from Gizmodos review of the Blade: http://gizmodo.com/razer-blade-2015-review-finally-living-the-thin-gaming-1689073179

Looks like the next generation of "thin and light" lovers aren't gonna have many children thanks to overcooked gonads. Maybe it's a Chinese conspiracy to somehow enforce a one child rule on gamers - if they're fortunate enough to have procreated before being sterilised by heat.

 

People complain about the price of the Blade but when you consider the fact that it comes with a free vasectomy, the price doesn't seem that bad at all.

 

That's epic! Thank you for the cost/benefit analysis! You win the prize for giving me the biggest laugh for the month of April, LOL. +5 rep

 

God, I'd love to see Razer incorporate a free vasectomy in their marketing campaign........might be something like "You don't need a real razor blade to cut your vas deferens, just game with us and let our Blade do it for you!"

 

Operators are standing by... call in the next 15 minutes and we will include a lifetime supply of Betadine solution.

But wait, there's more! Be one of the first 100 to order and we will include a 5 gallon bucket of Aloe Vera Gel and $50 Visa gift card good for one visit at any urgent care facility.

 

Man, I am so pissing myself laughing here right now!

 

In other words; Recommended only to be used on a table or along with a notebook cooler. Next new product line from Razer is certainly a great "thin" designed cooler for their laptops ...

 

Looking back at my post, the title of the article did say best thin gaming laptops, so that explains some, or rather most, of the choices there.
But I still don't like the innumerable rebrands I saw considered. I mean, was it always like this before or something (before = 2000's)?

 

I remember something similar going on there last 2 years when the topic would just be the best gaming laptops period. They would put the AW17 but never include the AW18. I always wondered while in the hell they wouldn't consider it since it clearly was more capable than anything else they included. If I remember correctly, there issue was that they didn't consider it a laptop.

 

What did they consider it, a space ship?

 

It wasn't only the 18. The M17xR2, M18xR1 and M18xR2 were also often ignored... probably for multiple reasons. Ignorance is probably at or near the top of the list of reasons, followed closely by being oblivious to their existence. Accessibility probably also comes into play. Professional product reviewers cannot review a product they have no access to. A few professional reviews are out there for each of these multi-GPU/Extreme CPU leviathans, but they are very few and far between compared to lower priced mainstream gamer models. Some consumers try to conceal their envy by being haters. Some may have considered them overkill and suitable exclusively for die hard performance enthusiasts with deep pockets. And, don't forget all of the ludicrous comments, even in this community, by talking heads that had never actually seen or touched one, boldly proclaiming they were "too big" and "too heavy" and "not portable" LOL. While they are not small and light, and that is primarily why they are so freaking amazing, some people just have a personal preference for something adequate, less expensive, and really don't care that much about amazing performance.

 

The next line up of Alienware notebooks is supposed to be glued together like a mac book.

 

And maybe even thinner.

 

And there will be an "external cpu amplifier " available. Oh and they removed the harddisk to make it thinner, but don't worry they are planning on releasing something called an"external hard drive" too.

 

I hope you are being facetious, but I am very sad to say that my surprised look would not be on my face if they did that. I never thought I would see the day that they would have the CPU and GPU welded to the motherboard of an Alienware. Soldered RAM may be coming as well.

Welcome to the age of disposable Microsoft Windows game consoles with integrated display and keyboard, and Android-powered "gaming tablets" LOL.

 

It's going to be harder and harder competition about who has the thinnest gaming laptop... The worst that can happen is that the processors are going to have a lower TDP. Maybe 35-37w. It's going to be the laptop that is thickest, which will provide the best performance due to better cooling(less throttling) . This is a dangerous direction. When Intel create laptop processors with lower TDP, then comes also graphics card manufacturers to do the same.

 

Dominate your enemies! Introducing the all new [insert OEM name] high performance gaming wristwatch! Now available with a factory overclocked Qualcom Snapdragon Quad-Core CPU, dual Adeno GPUs in SLI and 1.2-inch 12K* display FTW!

*100x magnification eyeglasses required, sold seperately. CA and NY residents add 225% sales tax. If you are taking anti-depressants or suffer from thoughts of suicide, please speak to your physician before purchasing this product. Use of this device may cause dizziness, vomiting, diarrhea and childish temper tantrums.

 

Not kidding with this. This is perhaps the future. LoL
Edit: If next gaming laptop gets a Qualcom Snapdragon Quad-Core CPU or Bga i7-5xxx series processors; It does not matter. Just as bad.

 

It's already here and now. With some Apple worshipers clamoring to be first to reach the pinnacle of high tech stupidity, it's only a matter of time, LOL. Chester Gould (creator of Dick Tracy comic strip) would be proud.


"Dt2wrr". Licensed under Fair use via Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dt2wrr.jpg#/media/File:Dt2wrr.jpg

It makes more sense than a shoe phone... but not by much.

But, that overclocked underwear is pretty classy. I wonder if it is available in 4G/LTE?

 

I know that... Seeing that several who have laptops with Bga processors must put balanced performance on the processor instead of max performance, so that their very powerful processor's is not throttled down to 2.8GHz or lower with max load in benchmarks.

 

I don't think I'd call it "sheep" accepting "mediocrity". It's simply consumers buying something that suits their needs. Why buy a $3000 laptop when a $1500 machine does just fine?

The R2 suited most of my needs, but ultimately I ended up returning/selling both of the machines I bought, since there were a few (in my mind) glaring faults I couldn't overlook - and none of them had anything to do with BGA vs sockets. If the 17 R1 could support a nice IPS display, it would be the perfect machine for me - and once again, that has nothing to do with sockets. Those are just a bonus.

I'm typing this on a Clevo P650SE - aka a "BGA turd". And you know what? Aside from the poor/weak keyboard, it suits me just fine. It has more than enough power to do whatever I demand of it. It provides easy access to the internals so I can clean/modify it. Its thermal management (both in terms of components and surface temps) isn't as good as my R1, but is still acceptable for my use. In other words, it (almost) perfectly meets my performance/budget requirements - keyboard and warranty aside.

If a machine suits my needs, I buy it. If it doesn't I don't. Simple as that.

So what you're saying is that buying a machine that suits my needs makes me a sheep?

 

Edit - posted before reading the remaining pages. Somewhat irrelevant now.

 

No, it doesn't make you a "sheep" as you have made an informed decision based on your knowledge, which is obviously sufficient enough to know the difference between varying specifications. When I say "sheep" I am referring to Dells new target audience - the kind of people who do not know or care about such things as BGA vs. MXM etc. I bet there are many customers who don't even know what SLI is. There's been many people already pass comment that Dell are shooting for the "non-enthusiast" market as supposedly we, as enthusiasts, don't account for much any more in the grand scheme of things.

In my mind, Alienware is shooting for the kind of person who thinks it's simply "cool" to own one, regardless of the changes Dell have made. That's the sheep mentality right there. The sheep do not know nor care for an enthusiast product, however their actions have a direct impact on Dell providing a true enthusiast machine.

No one is insulting your choice or anyone else's choice. The sheep thing is about a growing trend for accepting mediocrity, nothing more and nothing less.

I apologise here and now if any one thought I was being derogatory directly to them - that was never my intention.

 

Bought myself a Sager. They had cookies*, so...

*A "come to the dark side" reference.

 

Nice! Which one? What are the specs?

 

I have to say I am incredibly impressed with Dell right now. Called about my two stuck pixels and they are sending out a replacement LCD just by itself so I can do the replacement without having to have a tech come out and do it.