Dell/Alienware wake up call

Dell/Alienware needs a wake-up call. The recent rash of issues, pertaining to throttling, drivers, keyboards flexing and/or not keying, mousepad issues, bluray probs, incomplete BIOS update (A02), and complete BIOS bricking (A03), is completely unacceptable for a high end system of this price. I can understand a few bumps in the road, especially at launch of a new system, but this is becoming many, and worst of all, some of these problems don't even appear to receiving attention.

I've been wanting an Alienware for years, I finally pull the trigger and this luxury item(and thats all it is) and not only is it a Dell, its a Dell that I can't even push to its advertised potential due to compatibility issues, and throttling. At first we had a Dell rep on here that seemed like he was here to help. He said it wasn't real world, so don't expect anything unless it was real world. Low and behold there were cases of real world problems under "normal" use (L4D2, Crysis, etc...), and he skipped town. I was ready to download to A03 last night because of my throttling problems, hoping for a fix, but luckily I saw someone post up that they had a major failure after the install. I'm a few days past the 21 day return policy, so I'm forced to keep it, but I can tell you that so far, other then the looks, this pos isn't worth the $3k price tag, and I'd like a full refund. What really tickles me is when I get to see Dellienware reps chummin it up at CES, and braggin on a new $1k netbook (yeah, I called it a netbook), I could only think about how much effort is being put into getting new products out and how little effort is being done to make sure products that were sold last year, last month, last week, or even today, aren't receiving much attention.

The outsourced tech support might be fine for the billions of inspirons out there, where most owners could care less about a BIOS update, or if the system was running optimally, but for the average Alienware owner, who digs into his system like someone is paying him to do it, we need good, knowledgable techs, that are easy to understand. A heavy accent or someone who just learned English can present considerable problems when they are instructing you on how to fix/troubleshoot a complex problem.

I've never owned and Alienware before, and my purchasing process went great (imagine that). I was sooooo excited when it finally arrived. However, my ownership experience has been terrible. It's been as bad as my company issued, bottom of the barrel, Dell craptop. Just a lil fyi, my company Dell laptop is currently with our IT department, it also had an epic BSOD fail. But I didn't care as much because it's not mine and in most cases you get what you pay for. But so far I clearly have not received what I paid for with the M15x.

I can't blame Alienware for getting bought out, but sadly, this is usually how it goes. A small company finds a niche, keeps customers happy, develops a fan base, and then........The big corporation comes in and milks it for all she's worth until they run it into the ground. I'm just a little guy so at this point I don't have much choice, JonBatDell is MIA (and for good reason), but I'll tell you this. If these actions keep up, internet and forum word of mouth is a very powerful tool. If new customers pop up on these boards all it takes is 1 respected member to steer 100 new customers to the other brands out there. The Dell name is synonymous with businesses, so failures are much more acceptable, since they have stockpiles of them, and they pay bottom dollar for lower end systems. But Alienware is not, it is a luxury, high end system, built for CPU/GPU intensive gaming and for some video/photo editing. It's customers pay more and demand more. Don't treat this like your other brand lines or it will fail.


P.S. I'm only commenting on the M15x because this is what I own, but looking at a lot of the M17x complaints......I don't think things are much better on that side of the pond either.

 

quite powerful but true my first laptop alienware based was the m17, and its been nothing but problems from day one. first of all the graphics cards where not right, master card packed up.

i then sent it to alienware got it back thinking it was fixed but NO, they did nothing.

called alienware up and ask them what is going on, and the indian guy said to me, '' oh it wasnt the harddrve?'' after 30mins of their standard default troubleshoot they keep forcing me to do, format this, try that.
they decided to send out a graphics card, but guess what? didnt come.

phoned up again, this time i explained everything to the tech guy in about 1minute, so fast he put me on hold, and would you believe it? i got an english speaking supervisior who sent me a new card.

when you buy a desktop replacing laptop you expect it not to have to spend a month at the repair centre because of their cockups.

after my m15x that will be my last unless they stop throwing SHORT BUS machines out on sale.

 

Agree with much of the above, but the bricking issue is in a completely different league than the other issues you list...even the throttling issue (although annoying and clearly unbecoming of a premium brand) is nothing compared to the fact that an approved update is ruining 3,000 pieces of equipment. AND THE BIOS UPDATE is still on the website

 

also another thing.

that dell rep that was here floating about before the new m15x and m17x he said now its dell under control that the products where designed from the ground upwards and assured us there will be not as many issues with alienware laptops. he lied to us!, burn down his house!

 

I wasn't downplaying the BIOS bricking at all. I was just compiling the list of issues that everyone needs to know about, and Dell needs to address. I can't tell you how mad I would be right now if I had a $3k paper weight right now after updating to a recommended BIOS obtained from the Dell website.

 

http://www.ihatedell.net/ would be more appropriate for this thread.

 

I have no hatred for Dell. I have a problem with a product that I purchased not working.

 

I don't think it is just Dell, pretty much all high-end performance laptop (HP, Asus etc) - seems to have bags of issues which are unjustified, considering how much money they take. Every purchase you make, you end up more worried about "Will it work? Will it overheat? Will it throttle? Will I get X Y Z issues? Will the build quality not be up to par? All I want to be worrying about, when paying this much is, "Damn that made a hole in the wallet" but that is the last thing you think about, due to all the issues.

This has been so much so the case, I just decided to go for a powerful desktop. Performance laptop just seem so fragile, like you got to breastfeed it and look after it beyond belief - because it can easily malfunction. Sorry, not like I am spilling drink over mine - you'd think paying this much would ensure you stability and don't have to worry about it like a new born baby.

 

I purchased an "All Powerful" M15x in early December (got it on the 18th), and this is not my first Alienware comptuer. It is in fact my 3rd, but my first Laptop. It is (however) my first purchase since Dell bought Alienware. As far as tech-support has gone, Alienware has had (in the past anyway) some of the most proficient techs. Most of the time they are at least some-what knowledgable about computers, and in the cases where they are out of their comfort-zone, knowing when to elevate the issues. Everytime I have spoken with tech-support, it has been with someone in the US, I have not once been sent to an Asian call center. There are at least a couple of posts where people here indicate that they were directed to an Asian call center. I have to wonder why some of us get US support, and others get sent to 'Bob' in India? Maybe it has to do where the purchaser lives? Bottomline, is that I don't think that Alienware support is out-sourced across the board.

Regardless, one has to wonder how something this big slipped through testing procedures. I wonder if someone released this BIOS instead of the promised one for the M17x? I am hoping that come Monday, some AW-Tech releases the "crisis" mode for this laptop, so that maybe it can be fixed without a motherboard swap.

Rich

 

No I was referring to the forum over there is where people complain about Dell.

 

Oh god now that stupid dell is outsourcing alienware techs my god what is this now a damn joke to him? You spend 3,000 for this machine and this is how we are treated, this is how America has become, we don't have an industry anymore. I am sick of these techs who have so American name and yet they don't know jack about a throttle issue or even how to do a burn in test. Dell needs to stop focusing so much about their business line, we people are getting burned, i do own a dell precision, its great support, but as a corporation, it should be equal. If i did a bios update and it made my machine a paper weight! I would be on that phone cursing and i wouldn't bloody care cause my 3,000 machine is now a big paper weight!

 

Throttling issue aside, I can't really think of any major flaws with the M15x. It's very well built. Dell customer service is a huge headache but that's been going on for years now. It's a huge corporation with outsourced departments all over the world. People complain about outsourcing or quality but ask yourselves this: Would you pay an extra grand or more for your AW but have all the call centers located in the USA? I certainly wouldn't. The A03 bios issue is a glaring QA oversight but sometimes these things happen. At least everyone can rest assured their next business day service will kick in and Dell will remedy the issue.

Imagine if you were stuck with an Asus like the G51-J which has had BSOD issues with games since day one and Asus just went ahead and completely abandoned them in favor of their newest release. Things could be and are much worse with other companies.

 

^^^^ agreed M15x is still the best laptop i ever used. Just tech support and onsite tech sucks.

 

I definitely second this.

 

If, for one abstract moment, everyone started looking at the glass as being half-full, and really saw themselves as fortunate in some regard or the other--and I mean every single being--immediate world peace and prosperity of the grandest scale would occur. Period.

Things can certainly get worse than Dell, but that doesn't mean that we give them a pat on the back for doing something that could be considered 'bad' but not 'worse'.

Yeah, sure, I don't want to pay another grand for a laptop. So why don't they tone down their tactics and ploys of sterile competition. Yeah. Yeah. It's a bloody industry. Well, if you're going to sit there and justify that, then you might as well forget your stand as a consumer because ultimately, at the end of the day, the consumer bracket is the only bracket that can keep the industry and corporations in check.

If people don't complain, it won't improve. Simple.

 

the thing is, they wont let you complain, you post on their boards it gets deleted, you whine to customer service they dont give a crap 80% of the time

 

I do agree it could be much worse than what those have been through, i want to get the m11x soon enough, whenever it comes out, now of course the bios issue could be worse, much worse like Asus isn't following up with their problems with certain machines, i am becoming worry about buying one of those again due to the stability and support so far. I am really am interested in getting an Alienware, i always wanted one. People say that they are too expensive, but you are getting amazing build quality. Censorship on the forms need to stop from these companies. We must speak up, we must fight back, if this even means to go to their door. A birth of a nation was started this way too.

 

Third from me

 

and a 4th one from me

 

This is why we need to just start sending back all our laptops that are faulty... Im sure after they start loosing money from people wanting refunds they will wake up that they need to ACTUALLY fix these problems.


P.s i already sent my M17x back and will never buy Dell again.

 

After what's happened with the M15x, there's no way I'm using the supposedly fixed new bios for the M17x until it's properly tested.

 

Look, stuff happens. I've been buying/finding/getting computers of all types, speeds, sizes (you name it) since the '70s, yup, the 1970s. I've still got some wonderful old Mac, PCs and Silicon Graphics machines around here. This AP M15x is probably the single best laptop I've ever owned. I own iBooks and MacBook Pros. If you know anything about computers you know that Apple laptops rock hard. This Alienware machine is my first Alienware. I've wanted one for years just never thought it was worth it. Then I started following the threads here on the AP M15x and thought it sounded great. People like Joker seemed to be giving honest opinions (I even knew about the throttling issue when I bought it knowing that Joker and unclewebb had gotten around the issue. Mine came with A03 and I have not throttling issues). I bought it and it's wonderful. It will probably continue to be the "best laptop ever" until Apple releases the Arrandale Core i7 MacBook Pros (OMG I can't wait). Even then the M15x may be better, who knows? Anyway this thread needed some good comments about this machine. We're all knowledgeable enough to know that most forums have mostly negative comments even thought there are a lot of satisfied customers out there. The BIOS thing will be fixed. Alienware will make your computer whole again. Give them a chance. Sorry, now I'll just fall off of my long winded soapbox!

 

My feelings exactly! I think I will never ever buy a Alienware M17X. Alienware is just a Toublemaker not more! I will never ever gonna waste again 3.000 Euros for this kind of Grap!

 

I now have the funds for m17x but had no idea it had these many problems. I still want a little better deal so will wait another week or so. I am also thinking about ibuypower site where you can have a 18", blu-ray, and dual 280 for less than $3k. Anyone ever bought one for designed one from ibuypower? I wish it had the lighted keyboard, that is the only reason I did not buy this today. Figured I ask about this before I purchase. m17x Vs Battalion m980nu

 

Well I'm not on a crusade against Dell. I posted points of whats acceptable and whats not. I'm just a guy that believes in getting what he pays for. In this case I have not received what I payed for. For those that don't hve throttling issues, this probably seems extreme. But 2 of the 3 lastest games I've purchased requires a fix. This fix, as easy as it is, is something a noob like me can screw up, or worse brick his $3k laptop. If I wanted a laptop that could perform at half the advertised specs, I would've payed half the money. I bought the strongest CPU and GPU available on this machine, and get less performance than the i7 720/GTX 240M. If you've seen my posts in that thread, in 10-30 second intervals, my framerate drops in half in Crysis and L4D2. Unless I "overclock" my system back to factory clocks. On the contrary it seems WoW works fine, however I'm only monitoring GPU. So I'm assuming all is well with my CPU.

I couldn't care less if Sager and/or Asus, (insert any brand name here), abandoned their customers. I didn't buy either of those, and to be honest, none of these companies should be getting a pass, for just delivering what they advertised, let alone . My complaint is just an open warning on the path they could potentially head down if they don't start paying attention to the big picture, not just tomorrows bottom line. In the end, I just want what I payed for, and until I hear them say that they are working on these existing problems, I will not be a satisfied customer, regardless of what Asus is doing to their customers.

For all I know Dell is working on a fix for the throttling, but this post isn't just about that. It was about all of the problems, that many people are experiencing. At this price range, certain things just aren't acceptable.

 

While I agree to an extent that companies like Dell need to be held accountable for outright ignoring the throttling issue and/or making up excuses for it (e.g. blaming it on powermizer), there is a firm 21 day return policy in place to get rid of the notebook. I publicized the throttling problem a while back so people have had ample time to become familiar with it and make an informed decision of whether they'd like to keep the notebook or return it. The possibility of damaging the notebook, even if you are a newbie, using the GPU portion of the throttle fix is fairly remote. If the clocks are pushed too high, the system will lock up and a reboot will be required. The CPU fix using throttlestop has no danger of damaging the system at all. Intel's thermal protection remains in place and the only thing changed is the forced throttling that the bios tries to impose is negated. So I can safely say the fixes unclewebb and I have put in place are very safe.

Dell made some bad design decisions with their M15x and hopefully they remedy them and/or choose not to implement them in their M17x refresh and newer systems. Time will tell, 2009 was certainly not a good year for Dell with regards to throttling since it was an issue that spanned a multitude of Dell notebooks (not just AW).

I will reiterate what I said before, the throttling issue aside, I can find no major flaws with the design of the M15x. It is one of the best engineered notebooks on the market. The only other notebooks you will come across that are built better are business class ones that can cost up to 5 grand.

 

It took me 21 days to notice some of this stuff. During which, a Dell Rep told us they were looking into the issue (who is now M.I.A.). I also took the advice of many, including Dell, that the problem wasn't real world, only in synthetic tests. By the time I played/purchased a few games, I and several others noticed it was certainly a real world problem. Also, the "21 days" is of the invoice date. Not the date you took delivery of the product. The fixes that you talk of, which work wonders, can we assume will void your warranty? Since they back-door what IMO is an engineered safetey measure? Like I said, this isn't a crusade against Dell, this is just a customer that wants to receive what he paid for, or at a minimum to know that they are doing something about it.

 

None of the fixes should void your warranty since they don't do anything that modifies the hardware or even software outside of safe parameters. Rivatuner has been around for years and throttlestop was acknowledged by Dell Bill-B to be okay--it also comes with a warning but that's targeted towards SXPS 16 users mainly.

 

Well i've owned a couple Dell Laptops and they are working 100% to this day, one for 2 years and the other for a little over a year... I thought long and hard about purchasing the M15x or a Sager but in the end I chose Dell. I've never had a problem and if I did the last thing I would do is call them, unless it was bricked or something extreme where I would just send it back.... I really think that all the good things that I read on this board was a good percentage of the information I used to come to the conclusion that the M15x is the ultimate notebook. Mine was scheduled for delivery on the 22nd but I received confirmation that it was shipped on the Saturday. Rest assured if there is ANY issue whatsoever I will return the unit and demand a replacement or send it back for good and give Sager a try. Im still pretty confident that the system will be fine and if I can be patient and wait for drivers to come out and let other inpatient users "try out" the drivers/updates for me and then I will make a decision if its something I want to do. The issues that I hear about with this unit are so minor and ALL of them are driver related and will be fixed, just be patient.

Ill let ya'll know how things work out but for now im being positive.

Peace.

 

...................
or you can just buy another brand and never buy alienware/dell.

 

I wish Dell would officially tell us when the M17x refresh is actually coming out so I know whether to wait or just buy one now >.>

 

Apparently this month is when its meant to come out. But I'd give it till Feb', maybe March till its offically released.

I also don't understand why'd they release a BIOS update that could Brick a System. Dont they test things these days?

 

File a BBB complaint illustrating all these points and you WILL get your RMA. I have one pending for my 1645 thats past 21 days (because the "techs" promised me the fix would be out first week of January... which I waited for and it didn't happen, and now im outside of 21 surprise surprise...)

BBB complaints will get you some leverage. Make sure its professional and airtight and Dell will give you the RMA.

 

My M15x doesn't throttle on LFD2... I haven't noticed any throttling while actually gaming but I do hope that this is addressed in the future because at some point it will matter. I had a really good experience with a dell tech through email, but over the phone I agree, its very annoying trying to find someone who cares. The Dell guys that used to come here were very helpful, how long has it been since they were around? I know for a fact people from AW read this forum.

 

We think the reason I see it sooner than others is due to the higher TDP of the 920. 55w vs the 45w draw of the 720/820

 

The moving of customer support to india is caused by globalisation. The western word (europe and the us) used to import primary goods (grain or cotten for example) from the kolonies. Then they also imported these basic products from the thrid world countries as they became 'independent' (eventhough banks who they have debts with still dictate their policy). Then the third world started exporting processed goods, like jeans, computers and so on because thanks to our 'unions' and 'minimumwages' it became cheaper to make a global market which devides the work to the cheapest manufacturers. Untill recently the service sector was still located in the western world, but as you all know, the asian world is catching up economicly and has also taken this 3rd sector on their account.
So the reason why we are being confronted with technical support in India is the simple result of:
1) Our desire for the cheapest products
2) The liberal free market which makes relocating manufacturers or services to countries with low incomes possible.

 

The ONLY reason we have outsourcing is companies bottom line.

Period.

End of story.

 

Although i do agree with the above, the issues are becoming massive, im sure the big problems will get ironed out eventually, especially for the money paid for these beaut machines, the issues cant offord to be missed.

 

You can get passed indian service if you buy your laptop at a specialised computer store where they do the repairs by themselves. These private stores are more expensive and usualy give less hardware for more money, but I'm definitly going to get my next laptop at such a private store, instead of risking bad customer service.

 

Indeed, too many issues with the high-end product lines. Returned my 1645 after discovering the throttling issue.

Conversly, I've had excellent experiences with Dell's cheaper lines (Inspiron and Vostro). They always showed up in perfect condition (no dead pixels, fit/finish issues, etc.) and worked as expected.

 

I bought it back in sept, do you think i have a chance ?