Dell Goes Private w/Assistance From Microsoft, What Does The Future Hold For Alienware?

The display alone would be reason enough to avoid it regardless of how well it might perform. The lowest display resolution that I find acceptable is 1080p. I am required to use machines with 720p and 900p and I despise them. A 1024x768 display resolution is like going back to the days when a PIII-500 CPU, 32GB ATI Rage128 and 1GB of RAM was considered to be an awesome configuration.

 

The pro version (i7 3.0GHz, 2GB 640LE, 8GB of ram, 128-256GB of SSD) can play Crysis 3 at low-medium settings at 30+ FPS very comfortably in the video's I have seen. Which is staggering for a tablet, or even a notebook of similar size.

 

You seem to forget MSI. Great build quality, and several very nice features AW's don't have for more money than a sager, but still typically less than an AW.

The GT70 dragon edition is the best, and incorporates a lot more aluminum than the m17x does, has an anti ghosting partially mechanical steel series keyboard, gold plated audio jacks, 2 SSD msata slots, has better screen options, and looks great for over 100$ less than a roughly equivalent m17x (before taxes, which you won't have to pay on the GT70 if you get it from a reseller).

 

I haven't seen anyone say that the GT70 has better build quality than the m17x, and many say that its design is a step down. I have not seen any confirmation that the MSI's "anti-ghosting" is more than a gimmick even if the keyboard is higher quality than the Alienware's. Don't forget about the GT60/GT70 missed keystroke debacle a few months ago. Gold-plated audio jacks: again, more gimmicky than not. SuperRaid: Fair enough, but I think that the write speed of the two mSata SSDS is still lower than that of a single good SSD. Better screen options: I doubt that the stock GT70 screen looks better than the m17x's screen, but it is matte. This is a wash unless you spend $100 for a higher gamut screen. Appearance: All of the competitors' offerings look better than MSI's, I think. Price: Haggle. Unfortunately, haggling is the only option with Alienwares, but you cannot usually do so with the MSI.

The only thing most people agree is better about the MSI is the sound system, but good headphones and DACs will trounce both laptops.

I admit that after I stopped considering a Clevo, I paid close attention to MSI, but Alienware gave me a deal that I would not refuse.

 

The Dragon edition costs $2.8k with a 3630qm and 680m, which is hundreds of dollars more than a comparable M17x would cost. My M17x with 3740qm and 680m came out to 2.3k after taxes, so that Dragon Edition is a ripoff in my opinion. You could get an M18x with 680m sli and a 3630qm/3740qm for $2.8k, which has an aluminum chassis and twice as many GPUs lol.

 

You didn't look at the other specs the dragon edition comes with did you...

750GB 7200RPM HDD, 2X 128GB MSTA SSD's in raid 0, a blue ray writer, 16GB of ram, and 1202 bigfoot killer wireless...
Go add those specs to the m17x in the dell configuration + a 680, and it will come out more expensive than the MSI.
You could also opt for a non dragon edition MSI GT70, which would shave another couple hundred dollars off the price. and only sacrifice an awesome color scheme and some aluminum.

 

I thought that almost everyone that has needed to use MSI warranty support has claimed it is incredibly horrible, like Asus. Is that not the case?

What would be really great is if there was a gaming laptop store where everyone, in every major city, could go and compare every available model for every brand side-by-side. Look, touch and feel... maybe even use one a bit... run 3DMark11 on each brand on display. The only down side to that might be seeing a couple of brands go belly up because nobody would buy their stuff after seeing what is better. It would certainly put some questions to rest for a lot of folks though. The really bad part about buying most gaming laptops (including most of the brands we love best) is that many people buy them sight unseen and many don't have anything to compare with. If you don't know where to set the bar, it's like spitting into a headwind.

 

First of all, no one pays full list price for Alienware computers. The majority of people call in and end up with around a 20% discount.

Second of all, people rarely pay for RAM or HDD upgrades from Dell either. It's cheaper to buy aftermarket, so that's what most others (including myself) have done. Even when you factor in a $100 Blue Ray drive and $80 Killer wireless, the M17x would end up being cheaper. A comparable M17x with those options would come out to a little over 2 grand after tax, 16gb RAM (a waste in most cases) would run you less than a hundred bucks, and a 256gb ssd would run around $200 on average. Add all that up and you get a price of less than $2.5k. Still hundreds less than that MSI, and I'd take the Alienware any day. Like I said before, $2.8k would get you a nicely specced M18x, and even without 16gb RAM and a 256gb ssd, the M18x is still a better machine.

Agree with this 100%. This is the main reason why I've gone through 4 brand new laptops over the last year before settling on the one that I feel perfectly meets my needs. If I had a way of physically seeing and evaluating all the laptops I've had this year beforehand, I would have immediately settled on the M18x. It took a lot of trial and error before ending up with what I feel is the perfect laptop.

 

My m17x r4:

3740qm
7970m
Killer 1103 (better than 1202)
Two years of limited and accidental damage coverage (much better than MSI's, and MSI only offers one year of accidental damage coverage)
500gb HDD

Total: $1800 and a gift card (~ $1730).

Because of the MSI's power throttling and the Alienware's ability to disable the HD 4000/Enduro, I'll assume that the Dell 7970m performs and overclocks almost as well as the MSI 680m (unless you mod the MSI and buy a larger PSU). That's similar performance for almost $1000 less. Even if you add the 680m, blu-ray drive, aftermarket 256gb SSD and 8gb RAM, the total would come to about $2400 without the gift card, which is less than the cost of any GT70-0ne with SuperRaid.

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What the m17x offers over the MSI:

-(Likely) better build quality and finish
-Muxed graphics switching and ability to disable Optimus/Enduro with the unlocked BIOS
-More BIOS options and tweaks (native HWinfo fan control)
-Much larger support base
-Much better warranty

I think that these advantages dwarf Dynaudio speakers and Steelseries keyboards.
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I admit that most people will not get 30% discounts, and it is unfortunate, but even a "decent" discount will put the m17x's price on par with the gt70's. The m18x should be in another league of performance and build quality.

 

I understand the vehement defense of each persons preferred brand, but that kind of attitude does not do anything to improve product quality. Each of the high-performance manufacturers have issues in one area or another, many would argue MSI's chassis and hinge strength are not up to par but their audio blows away all of the competition. Whereas Clevo often cuts small corners (which have a big impact sometimes) in order to keep a very low price point, Alienware on the other hand adds in the little extras but at a comparatively large price increase. The issue that many have with Alienware is that despite what you may believe, they are OVERPRICED..........most people do not want to spend hours on the phone arguing with somebody that speaks broken english with only the possibility of getting a decent discount. The question you should be asking yourself is why you should need to ask for such large discounts of 20-30% just to put them within range of competitors when they could price the systems correctly from the start.

Also I'd like to add that although Dells warranty support may be great, their customer support is awful unless you buy business class........or pay extra to talk to someone in the U.S. that speaks fluent english (what!?!?!)

 

Another thing that the m17x has going for it is the ability to upgrade to a faster video card with little to no problem. The sagers with their locked down bio's and the MSI without the ability to disable the igpu really make it hard to do that.

Alienware has an entirely separate support division than that of the rest of dell. If you call 1800-ALIENWARE you talk to the alienware people based in Costa-Rica Which is a large step up from traditional dell support. I've also got next best business day support up here in Alaska if something goes wrong. No other company even comes close in that regard.

 

Odd, when I was looking at purchasing one that's the exact number I dialed in which I proceeded to have several long conversations with "Habib" and his manager who were both clearly speaking an indian accent...........it's only when I told them that I no longer had any interest in their product that I got an email/call from someone officially on the alienware team.

 

I never argued that Alienware is perfect, or that it doesn't have areas that it could improve. Its biggest weakness compared to other brands is its lack of better screen options, and it's something that they should improve on in the future.

That said, your argument that they're overpriced is BS. Even if they didn't offer huge discounts that other manufacturers don't match, they'd still be worth it with the advantages they have over other brands. You really think that the M18x should be the same price as an NP9370? That overheating, ugly, plastic-covered brick may match the M18x in hardware specs, but it'll never match it in performance or build quality. I can see that you're really trying here, but you still can't make a convincing argument against the fact that Alienware machines (in particular the M17x and M18x) are worth every penny compared to the competition. You can play down the benefits (warranty, cooling, build quality, BIOS support, mux, etc. etc. etc.) all you want, but in the end everyone here is happy with their purchases and wouldn't even consider jumping ship to one of the cheaper brands on the market.

Your anecdotal "evidence" about broken english-speaking reps is pretty lame as well. I've never spoken with a rep that I couldn't understand clearly, and even if I did they would be happy to transfer me to someone else in a heartbeat. Both times I ordered my systems I got a 20%+ discount on my first try. The first rep was American (not that it matters in the least bit,) and the second one was well-spoken guy either from Central or South America. It's not hard to get these discounts.

You're wondering why we're "vehement" in our defense of AW, but we don't go into Sager/Clevo threads and start bashing their products. Is that really surprising given what section you're in? It sounds like you're trying harder to justify your purchase than we are lol. I have absolutely zero regret about purchasing my current rig. That certainly wasn't true about my Enduro-crippled NP9150.

 

I'm not "bashing" anything, if you would actually read my posts you'll notice that I am simply offering my viewpoint on each product based upon my own "1st-hand" experiences much like yourself............you disagree which is fine, one-sided discussions are pointless and bring little in terms of improvement. Though I still don't understand why asking for a 20% discount is a necessary step in purchasing any AW, would it not be far simpler to use that as the advertised price? I think you would find a lot more people warming up to idea of owning one if that were the case.

The difference here is that you dislike one of the products where I see them all as excellent products with pros and cons to each, I'm just not afraid to address the issues that exist.

 

I would say calling them "OVERPRICED" in big capital letters is bashing them lol. If you re-read my previous post, I said that they are worth every penny, even at listed price. The great thing about them is their friendly reps who are willing to give a sizable discount, which makes them an even better bargain imo. The fact that I can get a decked-out M18x r2 for the same price as an NP9370 proves how great their value is from a monetary standpoint. I never said that calling in for a discount was a necessity either, but it's certainly an easy way to get a great discount. If a 10 or 15 minute phone call could save you several hundred dollars, why not do it?

And yeah, you're speaking from "1st-hand experience," but you've never owned any of the current models, correct? They've changed quite a bit since the M15x was out. On the other hand, I've several current models from each brand... not to say that my opinion is more valid than yours, but I've definitely got more experience with current model Clevos/Alienwares.

 

I emphasized overpriced because in my opinion they are, you may feel your money is justified and that's fine............ the differences in opinion are plainly obvious when you compare our builds. I dislike spending more money than necessary to complete a given task, which in this case is mobile gaming, perhaps that is a side-effect of my profession but that is beside the matter

I would honestly be less critical of AW's pricing if they were just upfront about the price and not randomly hand out 15-25% discounts to each customer. I still stand firm on the quality position as far the 150EM goes, that is why I chose to keep it. If AW releases a product that falls within my requirements at a price that accurately reflects what it has to offer then I will be more than happy to jump back on board, unfortunately unless my needs change or they re-release the M15 line I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

I guess we have different views on "value," which is understandable. I started out looking for "bang for buck" which lead me to the same laptop as you (P150EM with 7970m.) I eventually got tired of the issues with Enduro and the 12.11 beta drivers, so I switched to the M17x. I loved it, but I decided if I was already spending a few grand, I might as well just get the best laptop out there... which lead me to where I am now lol.

Still though, I think there is an important distinction between "overpriced," and "out of one's price range." You aren't willing to spend the 2 or 3 or 4 thousand dollars it takes to get a high end Alienware (which makes sense) but when you compare the prices that people are paying for their M17xs and M18xs to what Clevo and MSI charge for comparable systems, then you end up seeing that they're not overpriced at all. I think an M17x/M18x should cost more than a P150EM/P370EM when you take into account the obvious benefits, but the fact remains that you can still easily get an M17x or M18x for around the same price as a comparable Sager. My last two laptops are proof of that. How can they be overpriced if they're selling for similar prices as the other "value" brands? You can understand that it costs Dell more to manufacture an M18x and provide their warranty support than it does for Sager to manufacture and provide warranty support for an NP9370, right? The M18x is made of more expensive materials, and the warranty support is obviously much more expensive when you're sending techs out for next-day repairs, etc.

I can understand why as a consumer you don't like that Dell doesn't automatically list the systems with a discount on their website, but that's kind of beside the point. They're a for-profit corporation (at present at least lol) and it's up to them to decide how to market and sell their machines. Sure, it'd be nice if everyone automatically paid the same discounted prices up front, but the important thing is that they're allowed to issue the discounts in the first place. Those discounts are what proves to me that the M18x (for example) is a better deal than an NP9370.

I get it, Alienware doesn't make a machine that fits your budget and needs. It's understandable given their current lineup. The fact remains though, their current laptops aren't overpriced when compared to the competition.

 

Yep, they have changed since the m15x. They moved all production to china...

 

Like I said, it's not the budget I have issue with........I personally do not believe in paying more for something when a comparable option can be had at a cheaper price without sacrificing any meaningful qualities. That same philosophy is why I chose an Acura TSX over one of the more "flashy$$$" yet similar options, but that's another argument for a different place

 

kewl story

Trust me, there are perks to spending more. I don't miss my 7970m in the least... or the money I spent upgrading

 

In my experience, alienware was a no brainer at the time. Back in 2011 Alienware was the only company offering optimus/AMD graphics switching. Asus, Sager, MSI and the rest took a whole year to catch up in this area. I needed a laptop for school that had the power and screen size to be productive at the same time.I bought the stock config and slowly upgraded parts aftermarket as I could afford them. Plus the accidental warranty has come in very handy a few times when stuff has happened to my machine. I've been looking at the 11" sager NP6110 as a replacement for school and such, but not gonna shell out the money for one till the next revision. Plus I could always get a nice M14x off the Dell outlet for the same price as a beefed up Sager NP6110. Decisions decisions.

 

I don't understand the logic in having an issue with advertised price being higher than a "take price." I agree that they are worth the ask price, and the fact that you can negotiate a discount is icing on the cake.

In a tough economic environment, I think it make sense to have a sucker price and a lower take price for savvy shoppers. Even in good economic conditions, that has been the norm for other businesses. Since we all like automotive analogies, that's a great one to use here as well. If auto dealers posted their bottom line take price and could not go lower on price without taking a loss it would not be a lucrative business. If it's not lucrative, there's no point in keeping the doors open. Private businesses are not charities. If someone is dumb enough to pay the advertised price when negotiation is possible, they deserve to pay more. If you find a salesman that refuses to negotiate and the advertised retail price is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition, maybe that's a sign that you're either talking to the wrong salesman or need to find a new vendor.

 

Well... looks like Dell doesn't have much faith in PC's anymore.

http://bgr.com/2013/04/01/dell-pc-i...87/?utm_source=authors-sb&utm_medium=home

 

still don't see them backing out easily, especially with a 2 billion dollar loan from Microsoft. They are going to want some return on that money no?

 

It's a difficult market but you need to differentiate yourself and there is still a market to be had.

 

Well, the statement about “the increasing usage of alternative PC operating systems to Microsoft Windows” should be a wake-up call for Microsoft. For some that had no reason or desire for an alternative, Windows 8 provided reasons for them to consider an alternative. My initial reactions to the Modern UI were along the lines of "What? Why?" followed by "No thank you" and "I don't think so." I'm using it and actually think it's fine, but I rarely ever use the Modern UI or apps for anything. Many PC users don't have the patience, skill or self-confidence it takes to tweak Windows 8 into looking and behaving like the Windows OS they are familiar with and appreciate.

 

Engadget is actually saying that dell is looking at trying again with the PC market. Not sure who to believe at this point lol.

Dell CEO memo talks of a 'significant' boost to PCs and tablets in restructuring

 

The word is that Dell is very close to being bought-out (Google this subject for yourself). I was thinking of investing in another Dell/Alienware laptop, but how can I, or anyone else, be assured that there will be any teeth to the service or warranty once the financially-strapped company is sold?

 

The story is that Michael Dell is buying back the company and taking it private. He wants to improve the company image and what not...I wouldn't be to worried about it.

 

This, along with others. It's rumored Microsoft (Gates) has a stake in it as well.

I'm sure it will be fine. This could be good, and I bet it will be.

 

Michael Dell posted an open letter to shareholders earlier today:
About Dell | Dell