Frank Azor started following me on Twitter. [emoji23]

Guys, I had a interesting conversation on Twitter with the CEO of Alienware today and I wanted to share them with you all. If there is anything you guys need to say before the Pascal line up comes out, please do so here and I will screenshot your sentiments and DM him so that he gets the message loud and clear.




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In fact, I will share this entire thread with Mr. Azor so that all you guys can have a say on the brand we all used to love and admire not so long ago. Please share your feedback guys. Thanks


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Why is Optimus looked down upon so negatively by you?
It works fantastically and actually gives our powerful machines a degree of battery life away from the mains.

So Nvidia are going to be stopping production as well as support for MXM GPU's - Has Nvidia also confirmed this to be the case?

 

I am a long time Alienware fan. I had the Alienware M17X R1 and the currently have the AW 17 R1. I just put in an order for the AW 13 with the OLED screen and GTX965m for a more mobile solution

The GFX amp was a huge decider (no way I was going to pay for Razers expensive toaster ovens) and the new OLED screen is the type of innovation I love from Alienware. I by no means expect extreame performance or MXM from a 13" machine, and think AW has hit very close to the mark on the AW 13.

The one disappointment with the AW 13 machine (all of them) was it is missing a SD card reader. Why? its no ultrabook in terms of profile, there is certainly room.

As for the bigger machines, with the gaming performance of CPU's no being critical (an low end i7 will game nearly as well as a unlocked i7 monster $$$$ CPU; I never expected to replace them, so soldiered never mattered to me. MXM on the larger machines does matter though. Even at about $800 for top end MXM 980M cards, it makes sense to upgrade and sell your old card. Also when top end cards are soldiered to the motherboard; thier performance falls a good 15%. I would like to replace my 17" Alienware model every 4 years; if AW doesn't go back to MXM by next year (end of my current AW 17 desired life), I will have to buy a Clevo despite the inferior build quality

TDLR: The AW 13 could use minor tweaks; but please bring back MXM for the larger machines.

 

I don't have many, if any, problems with Optimus or Enduro, but there is a small performance hit when using it. That, and the fact that one's own laptop panel is controlled by the Intel GPU can be considered a negative. And the iGPU can sometimes be a pain. Thankfully, if a computer maker decides to route other display ports to the discrete GPU, then at least the user isn't locked down to just the iGPU. Alienware did right by having the HDMI port in the Skylake models routed to the discrete GPU. Now why the TB 3 port is routed to the iGPU, it would be nice to know.
If Alienware goes back to there MUX solution or does something similar to what MSI does with their GT series (swap between switchable and discrete-only), then no one would really complain.
That's all I really know.

 

For pleb/n00b/casual users, who do not know and prefer to turn a blind eye to the performance benefit of using dGPU/PEG mode, it's fine. So you don't have to know anything else at this point, you're perfectly fine, so just continue trotting along and don't mind this thread at all.

Hmm, the HDMI is routed to the dGPU directly? That's an odd decision to make.
Now if only the mDP is retained and routed to dGPU >__>

 

Are you always an obnoxious smart ass or are you trying particularly hard today?

Optimus does work and does so well. I've tested both manual switching GPU's and Optimus. I've yet to notice any issues during real world gameplay or usage.
Synthetic benchmarks are exactly that, synthetic. They will not provide the feedback real world gaming does.

These forums have become such a place of negativity as of late.
You have it straight from Frank's mouth. They have no interest in supporting a product line that "Never formed like desktop upgrades".

It's there. Done. Clear as day. From someone who will have a great deal more insight into what's working for the company and what's not.

If you're not happy buy elsewhere and stop complaining online. The vast majority of us still very much enjoy the new systems.

 

Of about 175 games in my library, about 45 work fine with optimus. The rest have problem initially until I work around, and a few are a pain in the but (randomly). It also causes FPS drops when streaming.

No optimums does not work fine (but Mobius could have been a little more tact)

However you eventually get used to it, and it becomes a small chore instead of a large one.

Much prefer the old system where you boot into the mode you want. IGPU for great battery; DGPU for performance. With SSD it takes all of 10 seconds to reboot. With latest processors, this system would give far more battery than optimus.

 

The only reason optimus is enforced is because the signal from AGA needs to be directed through the iGPU to go into the notebook's eDP.

It should, however, be possible for Alienware to still put a MUX and let users switch to the dGPU mode, but that costs money, so a sacrifice was made to cut costs.

 

I want whatever you're smoking if you think optimus will ever match a fully muxed dGPU. Alienware used to give us the option of having optimus or power it off completely and mux to the dGPU only. There will ALWAYS be a performance penalty when routing through the iGPU gates first instead of having it be pass-through a switch altogether and bypass the iGPU signal processing

 

I've shared this thread with Frank, please let the discussion continue so that we can see AWs competing on the higher echelons of the enthusiast market again.
I, for one would like to see the AW18s make a comeback with their dual 1080 profile. I do not care about Optimus and battery life, I do not care about the weight and portability, I want a true desktop "replacement" in every sense of the word. As simple as that!


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Is it true about Frank's statement of nVidia stopped supporting and producing MXM designs?

In fact, MSI and Clevo systems still have MXM version of GTX900m series and GTX980 for notebook.

Does he mean GTX1000m series and onwards will not have MXM designs anymore?

 

i think the clevo build quality is quite good.

 

Yes, Clevos are quite good and very reliable and if you buy them from Hidevolution, I think they rival AWs in terms their customer support as well.



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Dell is the only brand of the major brands who skipped the desktop version from Nvidia in their gaming line. This says quite clearly what direction they have chosen. Why would Dell start up again with a new Aw18?

 

I hope they do though because I miss my M18R2 too much. I had to sell it because I was little low on funds those days.

I asked frank about G-sync support in their new line up and he was very positive about it. I don't think we'll ever see a mxm based AW again.


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Clevo do have good built quality but I would recognize that along the entirety of their line, Alienware's are superior.

There have already been threads to ask Frank anything, and if I'm not mistaken they just devolved into arguments and incessant complaining. IF Nvidia have indeed planned on stopping production and support for MXM modules then there's naff all he can do I'm afraid. A small group of disgruntled users aren't enough to sway the tide.

Even with MXM machines in the past (Alienware M17x R3) I've never upgraded the GPU. The prices of these components just continue to rise. As of now the cheapest GTX980m card I can find is in excess of £700.
I'm NOT paying that for a card.

 

I would rather payd £700 for new graphics to my maxed AW17 than paying over 3 times more for a new machine. But that's me.

 

A new 18" SLI beast. That's it.

 

@Raidriar @Papusan Jesus this @Caladdon guy again and his slim design and Optimus failure bull****. In every thread...

 

So £2100?
I can get a fully 980m equipped machine for around half that....

I'll stand up for my viewpoint. Got a problem with being challenged then tough. It's life. Get used to it.
I got tagged in several threads and thus I'll not only reply but I'll shoot down whomever tries to to gain "one-up-manship" on me, my viewpoint being supported now that Alienware's General Manager himself has publicly stated that MXM market (Ie. the now disgruntled few) didn't form like the desktop upgrade.

Optimus does work - I've tested over 100 games too and this apparent "performance hit" is yet more blown out of proportion nonsense.
There are many who are truly fed up with the endless slandering of these new systems and the incorrect assumption that they are trash.

If you don't like them - GO ELSEWHERE

 

Not here home!! Still high prices for those rebadged AW 17 models with soldered hardware.

 

Maybe you need to update your drivers. I have yet to experience a problem with Optimus. It always choses the right GPU automatically. If it doesnt (only happened once) I add the app to the dGPU list. simple as that.

 

What makes it rebadged? You always say that, but rebadged means same product but different name. The AW17R3 is not the same as the AW17R2 from the inside. Different motherboard, specs and also the chassis is a bit different because of the different motherboard.

 

The openness to dialogue is smoke and mirrors, a stall tactic designed to distract and make fanboys feel good about a progressively de-evolving brand. Dell/Alienware is going to continue doing whatever they want in reliance on their past reputation, ignorance of the masses, and people that are more loyal to a brand than anything else. References Frank has made to the inferiority of Clevo are from years past. While they are accurate, they are not relevant in today's world. If you look back across the past few generations from the time of the buy-out until now, they initially took a Clevo boutique brand to unprecedented levels of quality and performance, peaked out, and have since gradually but steadily gimped, crippled and reduced features.

Be careful sharing anything in this forum... based on history, they watch, make notes, and take decisive actions to block similar end-user improvements to products on the next product revision. They are not our friends.

They have taken active measures to follow our hardware tweaks and firmware mods and used them against us. Suggestions left at IdeaStorm were noted and shelved. Some examples of this are the crippling of the Alienware 18, making it incapable of using a dual AC adapter mod like the M18xR1/R2. The change in BIOS design mid-point in the M17xR4 and M18xR2 to try to block firmware mods, then the draconian implementation of Secure Flash on the Haswell 17 and 18 models to drive the final nail into the coffin.

Their sunset of sockets and slots has alienated (pun indended) many of their most loyal fan base, but only the portion that looks past the label to the crap they are selling. Personally, I think it's unrealistic to expect anything to improve. They've already shown us their cards and they don't have a winning hand any more. Until they change their whole approach there is nothing left worth saving. I'm not saying they need to stop selling BGA turdbooks to people that want that, but they offer absolutely nothing of any value to the people that do not.

 

And the other guy. You two make a great mix. Moderator should check if rinneh isn't a multiaccount for this Calgon guy

Is 17" motherboard still same as in 15" ?

 

It's not the big difference between early and late echo. The term can well be justified. Read wiki

 

Hell, even their desktop flagship models are showing unprecedented signs of crippling and moving toward a proprietary Dell desktop model that makes after-factory upgrades difficult or impossible. That sucks as much as BGA laptops. Brother @Cass-Olé has been providing many examples to those paying attention.

 

Thats pretty much ********. a rebadge is the same product with a new name. Brush up your english

Now it is a different product in a similar shell. The AMD 390X was a rebadge of the 290X for example.

The 770 was a rebadge of the 680GTX.

Now you get a new chip architecture, DDR4 instead of3, NVME instead of PCIexpress. The only thing the same is the GPU, keyboard and battery.

 

English is not his first language, but Brother @Papusan does a pretty great job overall of understanding and putting the right words in place. Rebadge or not, it's more of the same conceptually. Marginal improvements, a new component here or there, and the same overall defective product design. I think that is what he is trying to communicate, and I understood that well enough... also agree with it conceptually.

 

Read the blue text. Yeah it can be extreme!!

 

I don't want to share this thread with him anymore. Wow, what a ruckus.

I agree with Mr Fox here.

If I can manage to get a 120Hz display and a BIOS that is not gimped in the new AWs, I am buying it with a 4 year warranty and get done with it. AW is the only brand that provides good service in India and I'll stick with them. If AW release another mediocre laptop, I'm swaying over to Clevos because all I what is a true desktop replacement which I can take with me wherever I travel. Give me a 8kg laptop and I am ok with it. Battery lasts for 1 hour? Don't care! I am 32 years old and I definitely know what I want.

Cheers to everyone for their valuable inputs in this thread.


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@Mr. Fox - Here you go yet again. Spouting forth the turdbook line.

Well these "turdbooks" have replaced your dying, lumbering, hellishly overpriced, "elite" MXM equipped systems.
And with the graphics amplifier granting them desktop power, they will SMASH your performance and kick you down the performance ladder with comparative ease, not to mention the complete ease it will be to maintain and upgrade. And let's not even mention the difference in price.......

I know it's probably too hard for you to accept that maybe you are actually dealing with more than one person that like the new Alienware line up and that you might actually be in the complete minority hence the new direction.....and you might actually be wrong...... but hey, that's life.

 

It's the same as in 15", the motherboard even says a few screw holes are meant for 15" usage only.







@Caladdon

As I said before, optimus is totally fine for ignorant users like you. 99% of the time you won't notice the difference, but true enthusiasts will.

Optimus was used in previous AW laptops, but we don't take an issue with them. Why? Because we can manually deactivate it without much headache.

Even ACER has a mux switch for their Predator laptops. A brand notoriously famous for cut-corner and ignoring the performance market a few years back has surpassed AW.

 

@Caladdon - LOL, you crack me up, man. You get an "A" for effort if nothing else. Take note, I am not calling you names and saying insulting things against you personally as other individuals are. I'm not going to do that. My contempt is for trashbooks and all the companies that offer no better options. My contempt is not for you or any other end users.

No, the only things that are hard for me to accept are irrational fanboism and inferior products. Find me a turdbook with a 980 slapped into an ePU that can match my Über-Beast performance clock for clock. And, don't change the subject and say overclocking isn't for laptops. We're talking desktop parts now. In my Clevo and in the eGPU. I dare you. But, you're going to have to do all of the legwork to prove your point because bottom line is I don't care. And don't use a pantywaist benchmark like Fire Strike. Let's use the big guns like 3DMark 11 and Vantage to get a clear picture of what a robust system actually looks like. My benchmarks are already uploaded and ready, so feel free to knock yourself out generating evidence to support your assertions.

Bottom line... Plug it in, ya got a turdbook. Unplug it, ya still got a turdbook. Any way you want to slice or dice it, doesn't measure up to my standards. I'm fine if you're happy. I'm glad you are... really... honest. I'm not, and don't expect me or others with similar standards to hush up and go away because you're a happy boy. That's just silly.

 

I dont think you quite understand that text there......

English isnt my first language either. Even though my dad is British.

Conceptional the same still doesnt mean rebadge. Which is exactly as the name implies. That would mean that pretty much every tech product out there is a rebadge because follow ups are more of the same concept but improved. Also the product isnt defective in any way. You dont like the product. That is fine. But it is not defective. Just got back after an 11 hour flight, Could enjoy movies for 8 hours on my laptop without using a charger. Spend a month in Japan, created websites, created a high detail brochure, played some videogames etc. Defective products dont do this.

 

battery life is probably the only advantage the AW has over clevo...

 

Maybe people with English as first language can chime in?
<Differences may be confined to simply badges and emblems, or may encompass minor styling differences, as with cosmetic differences to headlights, tail lights, front and rear fascias and outer body skins. More extreme examples involve differing engines and drivetrains.>

 

@rinneh - sounds like it was a productive and enjoyable trip. Glad it adequately serves your needs.

 

So, the next futuremark bench for laptops is going to be only a stopwatch to measure battery life ;]

@Mr. Fox

 

Hahaha - I was waiting for the BS "You're not a real man" line but that's close enough....
No Mobius - I'm not an ignorant user. I fully reviewed Optimus and my system before purchased. Was almost led to believe that the 180w adapter wouldn't have sufficed for my needs due to the misinformation spread all over these forums.

@Mr. Fox

Not exactly sure what's so funny. It's you that are in the losing camp here.
But whatever.

Why would I want to upgrade when everything I require is being done and done so brilliantly.... seems like a waste of money to me, then again wasting money isn't above you lot. There will always be a faster system out and sometimes the silicon lottery plays a huge part in that....

All this amazing power from your system.....that you spent how much on exactly?
*OH! - He's just delivered the knock out blow*

You've forked out on a system that WILL lose value and WILL need to be replaced as all others do later down the line.

I measured the value of my system against price and it worked out the best.
As a complete package it is the BEST for me.
And in a years time, maybe a little more or little less, there WILL be another new desktop GPU that can be slapped in the GA and do you know what this means? More power.

Don't drop the i7 bottleneck line. It won't do sh*t.

 

Sorry OP your your thread literally went to **** because of 2 rather arrogant and ignorant people.

Well if MXM is going to die, desktop it will be. I'll just be waiting for for the 1080 desktop MXM if it ever comes , and for the time being on to getting parts for my eGPU.

 

I believe someone made an mxm to pcie x16

https://www.techinferno.com/index.p...sion-project-complete-some-kinks-to-iron-out/

 

Yeah that will take some time to come out and mature. In the time being ill be trying out the Razer Core later this month and a DIY solution.

 

core works with clevo?

 

Standing up for having a view isn't arrogance.
Choosing a product because you understand quality isn't ignorance.

Get over yourself.

 

No one knows, thats why i have a friend bringing his over later this month. If none of this works, there is always the MXM to PCIe development to root for.

btw. i would suggest adding those 2 to the ignore list. Threads a bearable that way.

 

I sure hope that there was no reason to believe Frank Azor cared about what we have to say because if there was, it's been thrown out the door with the way this thread has gone. I feel bad for OP because you tried to do something you thought was good by sharing your conversation with us and offering a way to express our opinions to Azor and you've gotten nothing worthwhile to send to him. Not that I believe it would matter, because I don't but still. Sorry dude

 

best of luck to you! and thanks in advance for the will to try it out.

probably replied to op because of company image and general good PR, but in the end, it doesn't matter

 

If Azor said that Nvidia killed MXM because they didn't sent them MXM schemes then why the hell Clevo still has MXM?