HIDEvolution vs Dell legal fight! Who is lying?

@Donald@HIDevolution

Dear Members:

I apologize for the lengthy read. I can write a book on this situation after the outcome.

I was told to post my case here on NotebookReview by several redditors. I am finally taking the time to describe the whole situation so that you can be aware of it- before taking a crucial decision of buying a computer/laptop from Dell or HIDEvolution. I am trying to describe the whole situation in a chronological order.

My Background: I am a mathematics instructor(TA) and also a doctoral candidate in mathematics education with research interests in application of mathematics in animation and game development. I self-taught Adobe After effects, Blender 3D and Unity 3D to create instructional materials for my math courses that I teach at the university. As part of several projects I am handling, I needed a powerful laptop which also has to be portable as I am an international student in the US. Most importantly, my PhD thesis requires me to develop a 3D game for College Algebra course and I also had to build a virtual environment for grant our department is applying.

After a lot of digging, I decided to spend all my savings from stipend as a graduate student in buying Area 51-M from Dell. I ordered it from dell in the month of April but they changed the shipping date several times that I lost interest in waiting. This is where I should have waited a little longer, I was impatient! I saw that the laptop is available to be shipped via HIDEvolution which is why I cancelled the order from Dell and ordered it from HIDEvolution on Amazon, with premium support. This is my first mistake, ordering the laptop from a third party seller. The laptop was faulty from the day I received it and I thought it is a matter of Nvidia drivers. I had to reinstall Windows 10 to make it work. After a while, there are artifacts appearing on the laptop screen. I thought it is a driver's issue and updated it. It didn't help. I cannot even get into the windows desktop as all I can see a black screen and weird artifacts after login. I bought premium support from Alienware and contacted them via email.

I do not want to include all the details here as I am copying the link here to my reddit post where Mr. Donald from HIDEvolution also replied. In a gist, I found out three things:
1) the laptop that was sold to me as a brand new one was a refurbished one according to Dell Advanced Resolution Group.
2) Dell gave me a written statement that HIDEvolution is not an authorized retailer of dell which they are claiming to be. I forwarded these emails as well as call recordings to Donald@HIDEvolution.
3) There were laptop parts being ordered on my service tag while the laptop is being shipped or in-transit. HIDEvolution also confirmed they replaced LCD panels twice before shipping it to me.
4) Mr. TED from HIDEvolution sent me an email saying that they can look into the Dell inventory database and there is an availability of the parts needed for my laptop. This claim again rejected by Dell saying no external entity has access to their inventory.
5) Dell claimed that they are shipping the parts from France to be used in my laptop. TED from HIDEvolution trashed it saying that is a foul play. Off course, Dell's own customer care person said that it is not true and the person who informed me about this is no longer working for them.
This is where Mr. Donald from HIDEvoltuion commented my issue initially.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/...thoughts_on_alienware_area_51m_want/?sort=new
https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/...olution_is_fraud_dell_provided_evidence_need/

After a long time, I received the laptop but the question still remains as to who put me in this situation. I did a lot of mediation between HIDEvolution and Dell. Both of the parties are claiming against each other letting the customer in the middle suffer. I was just not able to digest that the year-long savings as a grad student was spent on a refurbished laptop sold by an unauthorized retailer. Mr. Donald from HIDEvolution initially tried to reject these claims(on reddit post) and I provided all the call recordings and emails from Dell. Then he started understanding my situation. My university took the case seriously and the lawyer asked me to file a case in small courts claim initially after which we will decide what to do. I was not able to do it given the huge task of PhD thesis in-front of me. I finally got the time to fight for it.

Recently, Mr. Donald came on a youtube channel, ownordisown by stephen to give an interview. He was kind enough to show the legal agreement between HIDEvolution and Dell about authorization(according to them). He is claiming the laptop is not refurbished even though it was repaired before sending it to me by quoting some rules from the Dell agreement. I quickly forwarded the video along with the time stamp to the advanced resolution group and at the same time to Mr. Micheal Dell itself. I received a call saying the claims are utterly untrue. They said this video and all other details are sent to their legal team who take care of HIDEvolution's fraud. Dell sent me this email

"This e-mail is in regards to the brief conversation that we had earlier today about your Dell Computer.
As discussed, the Alienware Area51m in your possession was sold as a new computer to HIDEVOLUTION/EVOLUTION COMPUTERS and they are not an authorized Dell retailer.
Please be advised that Dell has no control over the statements made by third party companies. Our intention is to ensure that our customers receive the most accurate information from our direct employees and retailers. Once again, Dell only has one depot/service center based in Houston, Texas and all the spare parts are also deployed from the same location to our onsite service vendors across the US.
You will have to take up your concerns with HID EVOLUTION in this scenario as the unit was sold to you by them." and he claimed that all these details are sent to the legal team to take an action against HIDEvolution for falsifying authorization documents.
Read the comments on the youtube video:


Like I said, I am the mediator here as they do not want to confront probably. Mr. Stephen of the @OWNORDISOWN took a lot of interest in finding the truth and you can see his comments under the video. I am taking this opportunity to thank him for his support. I forwarded the call recordings to Donald@hidevolution as well as Mr.Stephen. This is Mr. Donald's reply via email:
"I do apologize Vinay…Unfortunately, that tech is just wrong and we have escalated it to Dell legal. Dell is basically defaming HIDevolution. This is a lot of trauma for both of us…and you are correct, it is not warranted. This is why we escalated it to Dell Legal"

Finally, they both claimed to be fighting legally against each other. Clearly one party is lying here and that party is fraud. It would have ended simply if HIDEvolution replaced my laptop with a new one which would have avoided all the fiasco. The bottom line is apart from the authorization issue, HIDEvolution is using the agreement/rules to claim the already repaired laptop to be a brand new one instead of a brand new one. I have all the recordings, emails, tracking from service tags etc., to prove everything I said here to be true. in fact both the parties are in possession of these proofs now as they made me a tennis ball that bounced back and forth.
This incident put me through a dreadful situation wasting precious time while I am at the verge of finishing my PhD project and Thesis. The trauma is ineffable. The worst part is I do not have access to any considerably good computer at the university that can help me with the Unity-3D project I was working on for my PhD thesis during this issue. I spent all of my savings from stipend I received as a grad student to buy this laptop. I want to bring the people responsible for this to justice. They must regret their wrong doings. They cannot just lie and get away being in such high positions.

@Donald@HIDevolution

update: After reading several comments on reddits and here, it is better not to buy from a third-party seller like HIDEvolution. At the end of the day, manufacturer and the seller is going to throw the customer towards each other. It is customers who are going to suffer the most. They don't care about us. Buy it directly from the manufacturer avoiding the middleman.

 

Holy crap, what a nightmare! I'm in Australia and I have only ever dealt directly with Dell and I've always had great support.
I hope it all gets sorted out for you and those guys can just go at each other.

 

Am I wrong or has HidEvolution been selling alienwares for quite some time now?

I just find in a little interesting that this behavior starts up after their halo product (area 51m) were basically killing themselves almost right out of the box.

Dells logistics are the worst I have ever seen. They are basically a black hole shooting computers into the space. I work essentially as a middle man between Dell and clients albeit larger volume business side (not Alienware)

If the machine has warranty then Dell should take care of it, that machine isn't old. Seems like the classic dealer VS manufacturer and every time the consumer loses.

 

Thanks for the comment.
Dell basically says that you did not buy it from us and we can only take care of the hardware issues as I paid for its premium support. They asked me several times to take it up to HIDEvolution by yourself as you bought it from them. When I ask what about the false claims you just mentioned that HIDEvolution is making against you? They say we are taking action against them legally and the actions are internal. Although this time they agreed to inform me of the outcome from the legal fight with HIDEvolution. Yes, you are right! The customer loses all the time.

 

It all just seems so redundant as unless I am mistaken the machine, regardless, is warrantied. Even if you "dealt with HID" instead of Dell HID would turn around and send it off to Dell, as its not under their warranty service (unless you bought from them)

Why would a reseller try to buy a bunch of laptops at list price to take a loss on? It just doesnt make sense, some details are missing that have yet to come to light.

THe outcome of the "legal fight" with HID could take years, you need action now.

 

Sorry to hear all of this. I have learned long time ago that the only right way to buy laptops is directly from manufacturer or at the very least from Amazon if the Amazon is actual seller and they are in your country. With any other reseller you always have a risk of running into issues like these no matter how many other people had positive experience with these resellers. This is why I ordered my Dell laptop straight from the Dell.

 

They’re both at fault. I had a bad experience with Donald from Hide evolution. I only buy my laptops from Amazon now because of their great return policy. Don’t ever buy from a third party seller in my opinion when putting this kind of money down. A lot of people swear by them. Look through reddit and not this forum where it’s extremely biased in support of Hide because of all the incentives they offer.

 

Geeze.....I remember when you first posted this on Reddit, it's disheartening to know that you still have not gotten a resolution to this

People are clearly free to buy from whoever they want, and this isn't directed against HID Evolution, but just from stories on Reddit we have seen more then a few issues when it comes to warranties when you buy from third parties. People have a particularly bad time if they want replacements from Dell if they buy from third parties.

Hope you get this sorted out eventually @Vinay Kanth Rao Kodipelly , be sure to keep us updated if anything changes.

 

Thank you for the support. I will keep you all posted.

 

Wow what a situation.

When buying from a third party, you should be able to use the Dell support as well as the manufacturer, assuming it is under your name in the service tag.

 

I edited the curse words out of both of your posts. I didn't change the content in any other way. If either of you have an issue with that, I'll be happy to remove your posts entirely. Profanity is against the forum rules, simple as that. Stay classy...

 

You’re kidding right? I distinctly remember using $&@ symbols which I’ve seen daily on these threads as substitution for implying “profanity” Please don’t justify your actions and falsify accounts. I’d be happy to repost a screencap of my original post if you’d like?

 

No I'm not kidding, and yes I looked at your post as we have revision histories - nothing was changed content wise, just your childish attempt to use profanity. Let me help you with the forum rules which you agree to by using the site:

Foul language isn't necessary to discuss notebooks and help people, so it won't be tolerated. Any attempt to bypass the profanity filters will result in an infraction against the user and that post being edited or removed. Using asterisks or any other symbol to disguise bad language is considered bypassing the filter.

Should you have any questions about that, I am open to PM.

 

@Vinay Kanth Rao Kodipelly

"Who is lying?"

Lying about what? The points you raise, mainly 1 and 2, were disproven in the very links you provided.

Also, throwing around a degree proves nothing about your honesty. In fact, you spent a lot of energy trying to establish your credibility. That actually makes me question your integrity.

All and all, it seems like you're looking for a handout, as Amazon has denied your claim. So you're making a lot of noise tying to discredit HID and Dell. Expecting one of the camps will compensate you, to stop the influx of bad publicity.

So then back to, "Whos is lying?"
To me it's pretty obvious.

 

Thank you for the comment. I have mentioned several times to both Dell and HIDEvolution that I am not looking for a compensation. Please go through my reddit posts and youtube comments thoroughly. I understand that you did not notice the question I was raising. I also understand that you were not in my shoes so it may take a little humanity to understand the situation. I mentioned my degree and research works just to give you a little background to the situation. I am not going to get anything here by showing off my degree to a random person on NBR.

Nothing is proven and that is the question. It is still in argument. HIDEvolution argues their point of view but Dell is rejecting it clearly. Dell clearly given in a written statement to me(which I forwarded to HIDEvolution) that they did not give any retailer authorization to HIDEvolution. Now how is it proven if one of the two parties is not accepting it? When Mr. Donald showcased the agreement on youtube channel, Dell's highest resolution group trashed it. Again I sent these emails as well as call recordings to Mr. Donald and Dell. Both of the parties claimed that they taking action against each other. So how is it proven if they are fighting each other? It will be proved when one of the parties come out as a fraud.

Next, HIDEvolution is using a rule quoting from the agreement to frame an already repaired laptop to be a brand new one. Dell utterly denies this statement and told me several times that they would never let an authorized retailer do such a thing. Now this is my fight. My post is for those of you who are interested or about to buy a laptop from a third party company, just to let them aware that these situations may arise. That's it!
I have been in touch with both Dell and HIDEvolution since the incident. They both understand the fight is about proving the other one to be wrong. I am sorry that all you took from the entire post is "me trying to extract compensation by doing bad publicity". Again you will need a little understanding of the entire incident and what my question is actually, and the reason behind this post. It is just sad that a person who only took only "negativity" from the entire post is speaking of integrity. Good luck!

 

I didn't read it as an appeal to authority, more so stating why he needed such a system in the first place.

I'm not sure why people would buy from the Amazon store front though, I guess for mid level systems or something but the main reason to buy from hid is if you aren't comfortable with tearing down a laptop for repaste as oem still cut the corner on that front. A lot of people accuse this forum of bias because of a discount that is offered but many of us do our own teardowns to begin with.

 

I'm also having a similar problem: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...k-warning-for-international-customers.831239/

My advice is DO NOT BUY FROM HIDEVOLUTION instead buy from Dell directly if you value the warranty.

 

Just read through that whole Reddit post. Wow what a story.

It reminds me back in 2017 I bought a Supercharger setup as well as a few other addons to my Hellcat that didn't get delivered for 2-3 Months due to financial difficulties the company was going through. Another Time I purchased Tickets to Eastern Europe about 6 Months ahead of time, only at the time of departure to be delayed 4 days and wasn't given compensation when I had to rebook last minute at double the price to avoid more delays.

In both of those situations after not receiving a refund or just "Airline credit" I contacted my Credit Card company and filed Either a Fraud Charge (Never received Items) or Disputed Service Charge and immediately got the money back. People can say it's scummy if they want, but in a case where I bought a New Laptop and I'd been fighting over an Issue for months I'd contact my CC Company and see about a partial chargeback or full and return the laptop and get another device way the heck away from HIDEvolution.

I know this happened in April but most Mid/Upper Tier CC/Debit Card Institutions will still do that.

I was also considering a Laptop from these guys with the LM and thermal pad upgrades after killing my X7 before reading yours and @Renan posts :O

 

I wouldn't be purchasing any Dell branded machine for a while. Some people are happy with what they got and all the more power to them but the amount of bad machines through QC and regular design flaws are too much for me to consider personally.

 

Update emails from both TED and DONALD at HIDEvolution:
************************************************************
[private correspondence removed]
*************************************************************

All of them are escaping without bringing a closure to the issue. Not to mention Dell is completely silent on the matter.

Re-phrased:
Mr. Donald to me via Email: The company belongs to TED and you are his customer so take me out of the loop. I only got involved because I am the face on Notebookreview. Please understand I have done my best to pull the levers to get this straightened out, but I do not have the command power that Ted does.
****So, he bailed out after corresponding with me all this time****

Mr. Ted to me via Email: Dell is not responding to us on your issue and we have nothing to report to you until dell responds on this matter. Do not expect any replies from me.

 

This is why I prefer and recommend to buy direct from Dell with extended support purchased with the hardware, or purchase at Retail with Full Dell Retail Support.

I've seen too many situations like this where Dell and the Seller end up pointing fingers at each other and the buyer is left out in the cold.

Some situations work out fine, the seller fixes the problem, or Dell takes responsibility for the problem and fixes it, but the grey area is where enough get left hanging that it's not worth the small saving or custom work done - unless you go into it knowing you can take a total loss without remorse.

Also I don't recommend buying grey market where the seller is offering a large discount based on "who knows what" that isn't an authorized Dell dealer.

When buying Dell buying direct new or used will get you a better experience in the long run - excepting of course failed Dell designs, production, or QA - at least you have full Dell Extended Warranty to get replacements until the next model releases and you can request a swap for the next generation model.

With Dell I prefer buying direct and have all good experiences with support, and many good experiences out of the box with Dell hardware - personally and professionally.

For other computer hardware I prefer to purchase locally when possible to support local choice and options - even with next day delivery downtime can be expensive - and same day delivery at times isn't available, or very costly - counter to counter air shipments or hand carried replacements from support or vendors.

If there is no good choice for a purchase, find another product with better purchase options.

Good fortune with your future computer purchases.

 

Why this laptop doesn’t have any warranties or working guarantee ?

A lot of hardware components are recycled and reused again, you want some proof ? Check the paining ( usually back side of a piece)

if your unit has a major visual damage then yes replace it,

you got a bad gpu , needs to be replaced.


remember your laptop is close to 4k$ They can’t easily accept it as a return unit

 

I WILL NEVER BUY FROM HID due to this. Good luck man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

Wow. This is crazy. Up until now I have heard nothing but positive things out of HIDEvolutions. I can’t believe this is dragging on so long. If they value their business they should remedy the problem asap. Replace the mans laptop with a working one already.

 

And there's a good reason for that..

 

Dell almost just ruined a multi-million dollar contract with my client because they keep trying to overstep their boundaries and start talking sales to non-management staff in the field offices. This is a contract that has already been in place for 3-4 years now. Either way though this situation really sucks.

Maybe do a charge back on your card used to buy the laptop?

 

Well if that’s the case they should HID should remedy this. One small dent doesn’t need to be a large hole.

 

Thats like telling the Dealer to fix the car when manufacturer refuses to honor a warranty.

 

This just tells more about the manufacturer of mentioned laptop brand. And not the first time I have seen similar.

Do not buy Alienware / Dell

 

Good analogy.

 

Not really. There are specific laws mandated to prevent this sort of thing happening (in the US market anyways) in the auto industry. Unless it is a used, non-CPO vehicle sold expressly AS-IS with NO WARRANTY stated as such, both the dealer and the manufacturer are on the hook for both the Federal and State legislation for Lemon Law and consumer product protection. While there are cases where actual legitimate warranty issues are denied, the vast majority are reinstated when escalated upon the proper chain of contact (there is a whole sea of illegitimate claims due to, you guessed it, user abuse). In any case, there is NO scenario where a failure of an automotive component will not be covered unless it is a wear-and-tear item that has either worn out in it's reasonable service lifetime within the warranty period or abused and shows premature wear, because literally everything is considered a safety component and carries risk to others upon failing. Dealers by far are actually the culprit in that they are a money grab regarding service hours and price gouging on true OEM Branded equipment, and regularly do everything to avoid losing money whether it be billable hours due to warranty work or taking in a lemon (they will make repeated "repair" attempts using shady practices such as skyrocketing prices on either components that somehow no longer covered even though the fall under the warranty, the hours covered in excess of book repair, or a combination of both). The problem is consumers rather do not have the time or energy to voice up, call them out, and make them follow through and would rather avoid confrontation/conflict leading to a bad referral (which only provides a temporary loss in revenue, if any). There is a reason why no one likes interacting with dealers, and because it's easier to let them get away with things than to fight to hold them accountable.

TL;DR: A product sold as new, is covered as new given it is stated before and upon checkout of said product. If something does not perform as such and reasonable attempts have been made by consumer to alleviate such, Seller and Manufacturer are both on the hook. How so depends on Federal and State laws and regulations, anything else is fraud and is susceptible to an instant charge-back among other actions depending on purpose of the purchase (loss of work, etc).

 

I didnt say its a 1:1 comparison, analogies hardly ever are.

Even going with that, by the time a resolution is made via those methods, our member here will likely need to replace the laptop. But if he went that route its either they immediately resolve the issue to avoid a drawn out affair or they bury their heads in the sand.

I am aware of illegitimate submissions as my family (excluding myself) is in the business of processing warranty claims for dealers for submission to their respective manufacturers. Faulty claims by dealers are by and large more of an issue than any customer base sadly enough.

 

Thank you for the comment. I do have a functional laptop now. But as dell says it is a refurbished one and HIDEvolution uses the agreement between Dell and itself to label the laptop as a new one. I paid for a brand new laptop but I received a repaired one. The money I spent on it is from my savings as a graduate teaching assistant and I am an international student in the US with absolutely no idea how to bring them to justice. At the end, HIDEvolution just stopped responding.

 

Thank you for the comment. Yes, that is one of the biggest lessons I learnt due to this situation. Eliminate the middleman/dealer completely and buy directly from the manufacturer!

 

There is speculation that Dell is cancelling the orders and employees are selling them on the side, but I cant vouch for that.

That being said a leak in Dells inventory wouldnt surprise me considering my dealings with them currently.

As for the above, there are ways to get out of anything. My family has been dealing with Cadillac for the better part of a year now regarding transmission issues, and while it did result in a payout, were still stuck with a cadi that we dont trust to drive and still have to make payments on.

 

I totally understand how it is like to be stuck in such a situation. we part of my heart shouts at me to take drastic measures to teach the people at HiDEvolution a good lesson so that they won't pull such a stunt with another customer. Especially Mr. Ted seemed so ruthless while Mr. Donald tried his best to understand the situation and he felt sorry for it. I feel like dragging people like Mr. Ted dragging out of his office on to the road for playing with customers hard-earned money. I mean how does it feel if you are saving for longtime to buy a laptop and someone ended up selling you a used one. The point many of the people commenting here missed is about parts being ordered on my service tag while the laptop is actually shipped. It seemed like a pretty shady business. And Mr. TED claimed access to Dell's inventory (I sent this email to Dell) and Dell clearly said they are lying mentioning no one has access to their inventory. Let's hope for the best!

 

I've always been a proponent of buying either directly from the manufacturer or a retail store with a no-frills extended warranty/refund policy like Best-Buy or MS Store. If something goes wrong, take the computer to them with the original receipt and they credit you the full original purchase price and you are free to purchase whatever you like from whatever brand you'd like to gamble with next. Not a fan of middle men in any capacity.

 

hey idk if you got things fixed but i saw this post on reddit from a year ago straight up saying not to buy the 51m, the account is saying they work for hidevolution

https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/...rea51m_toasted_in_less_than_48_hours/eh6qh9h/