How far Alienware has gone backwards

I only do 4.25Ghz on AIR mind you... on my 5820K. Traded in Alienware's -> Bought desktop.

 

Alienware 13 = XPS 13 in disguise. Pretty much answers the title of this thread.

The Alienware we once knew and loved is gone. They've taken "Dellienware" to a whole new level.

 

Except the Alienware has a much faster gpu (intel hd 5500 vs gtx 960M)

 

makes u almost wish that dell would bring back the pre-alienware xps line, which was their very own enthusiast brand at that time

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Until the latest BGA turds were released, Alienware laptops (after Dell purchased Alienware) were significantly better products than any pre-Dell Alienware or Dell XPS laptops. I was an XPS nut before switching to Alienware and since the release of the M17xR2 and M15x the Alien beasts have been head and shoulders better... not a little bit, but a LOT better. Dell stopped even trying to present the XPS line as an enthusiast product after the XPS M1730 (which was the last of the Mohicans) so they would not be competing against the Alienware line. The XPS was downgraded to a premium quality consumer notebook... which they still are today, but far from being a "high performance" notebook from an enthusiast perspective.

 

ah yes, im aware of the history and was also ready to pull the trigger on an alienware after my Clevo HM series died on me last fall. but then the BGA wave started to roll out and clevo was the only real choice left for me...not that im complaining though

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I'm skipping over most comments to address how "backwards" or not the tech is... I dont think it is. Having had a Gen2 XPS nearly 10 years ago then a few in between such as M11xR1 I can tell you the progress is still there and evident in the experience I have with AW13. Value for money? Hard to make the case but if that were my motive I wouldn't be in laptops. lol.

 

Ofc when you're comparing across such a huge time gap, progress is certain, esp. in a fast-moving field like PC tech. But the point is that AW has regressed in the last couple of generations.

 

Definitely... remarkable and rapid regression, unfortunately. The new stuff is truly pathetic in comparison. It's very sad. Anyone that cannot recognize that either isn't paying attention or is simply not keeping up with thing because it's totally obvious.

 

Last couple of generations + being pathetic in comparison are broad statemented exaggerations... so much so that it is impossible to be correct AND acknowledge tech moves forward. Stay specific or fail. You guys are on about things that speak to potential performance or perhaps configuration control AND possibly in specific systems.

While in a narrow view this has merit, you should note that it isnt everything and certainly not worthy of gross overstatements. Maybe your expectations are not being met. That's fine. I think some emotion got involved though and maybe a bit butthurt on another forum.

The tech status - whatever it is - is hardly limited to DELL or AW.

 

Butthurt? LOL. You sound like a douche. Your lack of knowledge on the specifics just shows a lack of search skills.

 

Nice one. On the first page an opinion was given and ASKED for discussion. Also, there did seem to be some anger, partially due to another forum.

Simply put, if I didn't improve performance in 3-5 years I wouldn't have replaced our systems. Reading here one might assume 5 year old systems on ebay would be preferable to new ones. Perhaps that too is an overstatement. It is. And is my point.

It is certainly fair to complain about design, configuration options, or even overclocking to fit a specific want vs expected progress. I get it that BGA is a big deal in this thread but it isn't holding me back. Maybe my purchase timings are just more fortunate where I see benefit? Possible. I don't usually have bleeding edge.

Nothing new here. Top end latest tech has risk of being poor value for money but it also has often the best chance of being future proof... which seems to have worked in this case. If the system is competitive at 5 years then that was a success but it isn't MY experience. My new systems from then cannot compare to now.

Finally, I would note that there is a difference between comparing actual systems and what we would have expected tech to be after 5 years. I would tend to agree with not meeting expectation but disagree with outright performance comparisons.

 

Not sure what you mean about another forum. Maybe you're talking to someone else about that, but I don't get butt-hurt because I literally don't a rat's fanny whether other people agree with me or not. It truly doesn't matter and the only opinion I care about is my own. I extend that courtesy for others to have another opinion and don't hold any grudges. But, I do find some of the opposing views to be very amusing. I generally keep the amusement to myself so nobody gets their shorts in a twist from being laughed at.

But, moving on, notebook technology is mostly going backward, not forward, if you're measuring performance and quality. This BGA filth is nothing but garbage. I do agree that it's not limited to Alienware, though. The curse is widespread and affects anyone willing to compromise their standards. Anything BGA is a pile of trash no matter whose name is on it. At least Clevo is continuing to manufacture decent options with fully unlocked CPUs with unlimited TDP that are still mounted in sockets. Alienware using BGA GPU is downright inexcusable from a brand that brags about being great. From all outward appearances, they're not even making a decent effort to match the quality and performance of their once inferior competitors (ASUS, MSI, etc) but using BGA crap for GPUs instead of MXM is inexcusable. So, they slimmed the chassis down a little bit at the expense of crippling the machine, made their stuff an absolute engineering abortion and nightmare to work on, and eliminated any possibility of GPU upgrades or replacing GPUs in the event of a hardware failure. You're more than welcome to say that is tech moving forward all you want, but it doesn't make it accurate if you're an enthusiast. For mainstream consumer notebooks, BGA has been the norm for a while now. Many of us expect a whole lot more from this brand than mainstream consumer junk and feel what they've done to tarnish their reputation is extremely unfortunate.

My Alienware M18xR2 outperforms everything Alienware have released subsequent to it, and the M18xR1 matches the Alienware 18 in almost every measurement. That's not progress. Neither is the massive reduction in quality and features. The models released subsequent to the Alienware 17 and Alienware 18 are also a downgrade in quality and performance. Ignoring the loss of features and quality, I suppose if you go back to the M15x and M17xR2 you might be able to find some evidence of performance gains, but not a whole lot if those machines are fitted with upgrades. The only thing that is actually a nice gain from Haswell forward is all ports are SATA-3 6.0GB/s and that doesn't do much to get me excited in light of everything else.

 

Saying that a 680M beats a current AW15/17 with a 980m. If you state such bullcrap you just lose all credibility. I for once am happy Alienware moved its focus from bulky desktop replacement to fairly portable machines. At least we have good battery life now, performance and portability is what I am looking for paired with good battery life. Not a machine thats so bulky it only is staying on my desk most of the time while being beat from everyside by my fairly small footprint desktop which costs half the price than a comparable laptop.

CPU's in general didnt receive a lot of performance increase gains past 5 years so blaming Alienware for that is foolish. But the current day GPU's are far superior than any pre-Geforce 9xx series MXM cards. If you state otherwise. Prove it, benchmark the **** out of it and I will do the same to debunk it.

With the 2014/2015 line Alienware could finally win me over.

 

Since alienwares have been capable of upgrading GPUs this entire time, putting a 900M GPU like a 980M in a system capable of using it (like a M17x R4) would negate the need for a 680M. You're comparing GPUs, not systems and their potentials.

Looking at your past machines, I can see why. You want thin notebooks with just enough power for gaming. You're not after power, because if you were, you'd be hunting stuff like the M17x R4 or M18x R2.

Considering Alienware machines since Optimus came out have been able to use iGPU-only, Optimus, or dGPU-only configurations via the BIOS, this is a moot point, proving you don't know what you're talking about. Please refrain from talking about things you have no idea about as fact, since other people might read what you say and get the incorrect idea. I already have problems with Notebookcheck for doing the same things in their reviews; not mentioning Clevo's max fan capabilities or using them and then claiming machines overheated under load, and then people believe other vendors are better.

We're blaming Alienware for going along with intel's decree for BGA-only CPUs. Not only are they soldered to the board which is anti-consumer in every form, but they are TDP limited and will never achieve consisten power like the MQ chips could. They are INFERIOR products to what was once offered, and are going backwards in technology. Alienware has decided they will not use desktop CPUs in laptops to keep powerful machines. That's their choice, and thus they lose their business from performance enthusiasts or gamers who want a no-nonsense performance machine. ALSO, the AW17 R2 and AW15 R1 both have issues where when CPU and GPU are stressed, the CPU loses most or all of its turbo boost and locks itself somewhere around 2.8GHz... this is an Alienware problem. As well as users waking from sleep seem to get locked to 800MHz until they reboot; effectively locking the sleep mechanic out for them.

My machine came with 780Ms. I could put 980Ms in here. When the 1080M or whatever Pascal cards are named comes out, I should be able to put that in here too. An AW17 R2 with a 980M is stuck using that 980M until it dies. I don't care if you have a graphics amplifier. That's not the card in the machine that I can take anywhere in my backpack. You want BGA GPUs? That's your prerogative. Nobody who understands the benefits to a consumer of modularity (even if not upgrade-ability) will ever "decide" that BGA is better than MXM if the form factor can hold it.

Because you're not a performance enthusiast of any kind, nor do you care about high end machines. Again, your last laptops are proof of this. You don't care about modularity, or chips that work properly, or upgrade-ability, or anything like that. You care about having a thin machine that can do some gaming. AND EVEN THEN, you didn't buy a P650SE, but got an AW15 R1 instead, effectively buying a worse machine (for likely more money).

 

Gr8 b8 m8

 

You are making a lot, but really a lot of assumptions about my desire which type of machines to use. For example the Vaio Z13 I used in the past was something I used during my university days where I was constantly carrying a messenger bag 5 days a week from college room to college room and after to the design office where I was working. For this I chose this laptop because it was only 1.3kg light which was perfect for the task. I buy laptops for a certain task. The Samsung Ativ Book 8 was a let down for example and I hoped the Gigabyte p34wv3 would be the perfect balance between what the Vaio z13 offered me in the past in terms of form factor while still retaining a fair bit of high end performance. But the build quality was abysmal. Considering only SLI laptops are really much faster the oldschool Alienwares only primarly had modularity as unque functionality. These CPU's hardly really perform much better, a few % at most. I can understand you want to change your parts. But this is what make machines bulky, the reason why I never bothered buying an older Alienware system. Because in the end, I would not bother to move it and my desktop system, of which I expect the best performance so I build them myself, with liquid cooling, heavily overclocked and SLI setups I felt those old bulky Alienware machines where kinda useless. Too large to bring with me and not performing enough and too loud just to keep on my desk. So there, you have my reasoning why I bought the laptops which I have. I want the best while still be able to bring it to the office everyday, on the plane when I go on business trips or even just for a small lanparty at a friends house. The current AW systems perform really well and only much bulkier systems perform better but they are also not that portable. Dell has to sell systems and the type of machines you expect are simply not selling well. Clevo can do this because a lot of smaller brands are buying those from them. But Dell is not selling its hardware to other vendors ofcourse. Why they arent selling well? Well for the money I can buy a dual GPU gaming PC that performs 200% of what the best Alienware or Clevo ever could while running quiet.

Also the issues you point out are issues from the first bios. With A06 I experience 0% throttling and it is turbo boosting constantly while under load. I just buy a new one when its becoming too old. I do not wish to change the GPU over time because in the end, the fans are wearing out, the battery is too old, the screen uses too old tech etc etc. To change all those parts I can just buy a new fresh laptop.

Oh and why I didnt buy the P650SE? Because the battery life is not up to par and I really hate the hinge constructin. The AW15R1 is a perfect machine for me, and the screen is top notch which I can replace in the future for an UHD model as well if I want to. Paid only 1500 euro for my Alienware with 2 years of warranty. The Clevo is more expensive, equal performing, less good build quality in my opinion (I have tested it) and a **** battery.

 

Well, it's great that the AW15R1 is perfect for you... really, not being sarcastic or critical here. There are others that share your views. Then, there are the overclockers and performance enthusiasts that have the best, don't care how big it is and still take it everywhere they go. Nothing wrong with being a compromiser or an enthusiast, or somewhere in the middle. The trouble we are being faced with is the lack of options, not the diversity of opinions and interests.

Now that the consumers that prefer a thinner and lighter, disposable compromise gaming-capable notebooks are starting to have their long-awaited run in the sun with the plethora of chintzy notebook stuff that is totally saturating the market, the pendulum is swinging over their direction, getting stuck there, and leaving those with different standards nothing left to choose from. Or, at least very few options. Doesn't matter where you are in terms of preferences, the lack of options is enough to suck the reproductive organs off of a brass monkey. Some of us will never drink the jokebook Kool-Aid even if that eventually becomes the only option remaining.

 

I've been going through laptops like socks ever since I sold my M18x R2 (in hopes of there being an R3).

Just can't seem to find the right one. The search continues... Maybe the Clevo P870DM is next?

 

So you dont mind the screen of your aging chassis is not up to par anymore? The battery technology, the fan lifespan etc? Not only the GPU and CPU age. Oh an I am a fairly enthusiast overclcoker. Nothing runs stock what I have. But for the ral performance stuff I rather stick to desktops, puny laptop fans can never truly cool the system well with acceptable noise levels. I rather see the chassis being slimmed down even further while retaining the current performance and incorporate more aluminum and or magnesium into the frame. Ofcourse I wouldnt mind a MXM setup for example. But it is simply something that makes a machine fairly big for most of us and Intel is moving away from laptop systems with sockets.

 

The 1080p 18" display is amazing and excellent quality. I've had around a dozen notebooks with smaller screens and higher than 1080p resolution and I find them absolutely miserable to use. You have to jack up the display scaling to 150% or higher for text to be comfortably readable on a puny 15" or smaller LCD, (even 17" is too small, but it's doable,) and doing that truncates text in menus and dialogue boxes and essentially defeats the primary benefit of increased screen real estate. If you cannot run 100% scaling without struggling with tiny text and getting a headache, that means the screen is too small, or the resolution is not suited for the size of the panel. Buying the higher resolution is worthless marketing hype if you have to crank up the scaling.

On integrated graphics I get 6 hours from my M18xR2 battery, but this is really irrelevant because I don't ever need that feature. I don't need long battery life. I use my battery once in a while, but most of the time I find a power outlet at home, at work, in an airport, under the airplane seat, or in my hotel room. If I need it, the option is there, so that's nice.

You keep going on about puny fans and cooling as if they are a real problem, which leads me to believe you are really seriously out of touch, uninformed and unfamiliar with Alienware's flagship notebook options and their history of excellent products. None of your observations are accurate. Maybe you are assuming they are the same as some other junky gamer notebook garbage from companies like MSI and ASUS. Those system do, in fact, have problems and they have had them for a long time. Being thinner, lighter and BGA (which they have been for a while now) hasn't done anything to help them clear their hurdles because they are a result of poor engineering, not form factor.

Can you run your Alienware 15 CPU at 4.3GHz 24/7 with no thermal issues? Oh wait, you cannot run it at 4.3GHz period. Well, my M18xR1, M18xR2 and Alienware 18 have all been running 4.3GHz all day long, every day, since the day I got them... for years, LOL. I can also bench them between 4.7 and 4.9GHz. They already have an aluminum chassis, so I don't need that. And, if they where thinner and lighter, I would not want anything to do with them. I am an example of the kind of customers that have spent the most money for the best and help keep the lights on at Alienware for a good while now. Since they don't sell anything that I want to own any more, it's time to move. That's 100% what this thread is all about. They used sell wonderful products that I wanted, but now I have to get what I want from another source.

 

Wow Renée, the Desert Fox just took you to school

 

I wish I still looked as young as Rommel does in that photo.

I'm pretty sure my gray hairs have gotten at least two shades lighter (approaching white) since Alienware jumped on the BGA bandwagon.

 

I have a 1080p 120Hz screen in my "aging chassis" from 2013. THERE IS NO EQUIVALENT SCREEN TODAY.
Battery technology has not improved, and Optimus would make it impossible to use the 120Hz screen anyway, and SLI doesn't work with Optimus, and Optimus is little but a detriment to most enthusiasts. Also, as I said before, Optimus tech is selectable in the BIOS in single GPU, non-120Hz machines like the M17x R4 and AW17 R1. It's not "new" for Alienware, though it's "new" that you can't turn it off at will (loss of a feature).
Clevo fans last 4 years and longer running max fans 24/7 easily. Source? I owned a D900F and ran max fans 24/7 for over 4 years without so much as a squeak. The fans failing is more of an anomaly than not.
Overclocking HQ CPUs are pointless as they become TDP limited and throttle under load easily. It's built into the chips themselves. If yours doesn't, you're an EXTREMELY lucky user with a DEFECTIVE CPU (according to Intel) and should hope you never need a motherboard replacement, because that chip's ability to hold its TDP is going bye bye.
Desktops can handle extreme methods of OCing, sure. But by that point, you're getting almost into the watercooling state. And noise levels are dependent on the user. I don't mind my Clevo on max fans in any environment I've ever used either of them in.
Exactly my earlier point. You do not chase power. You rather get power now in a smaller size. I rather keep this size and push as much power into it as possible. This is why I would jump at the P870DM and you won't.
Sockets do add thickness, but not a massive amount. If you're willing to chase the small machine because it suits your needs, then by all means... I don't expect every user to demand high performance and overclockability with impeccable cooling out of a laptop. But as I said before: You want thin notebooks with just enough power for gaming. You're not after power, because if you were, you'd be hunting stuff like the M17x R4 or M18x R2. You might be a performance enthusiast for desktops, and that's fine, but you're not one for laptops, or you wouldn't accept these machines. And again: THAT'S FINE. Just don't give these machines a free pass for being top end laptops. They're simply not. Your AW15 R1 would quite simply not handle what I could ask of it on a daily basis WITHOUT INCLUDING A SINGLE STRESS TEST OR BENCHMARK. It is not designed to endure such a workload... not its cooling nor its CPU.

 

LOL Go buy macpoop air or BGAWare 17R2 and stop wasting our time. My M18xR1 that is old by nowadays standards gonna eat every desktop you will have.

 

The new Rebadged Aw15r2/17r3 can normally use the best graphics from Nvidia. But you can't that anymore... You can't put the new +200w Gtx980 desktop card for laptops in an CrApple thin new modern Aw15/17. That's simple. What next; which Nvidia graphics can be used in an modern thin Aw laptop when you can't use the best one from Nvidia anymore? Maybe a downscaled maximum 120w card ? You want a thin Aw laptop? Ok. Use the G/A or the next best graphics from Nvidia. But don't call Alienware a high end gaming laptop anymore. Because with a weaker graphics Aw is more like a Acer/Pacard Bell. Want thinner gaming laptop = Weaker performance. That's it. End of discussion.

 

1080P on 15inch is imo the limit I can clearly see the edges of all pixels from a normal distance. UHD is so much more crisp and for gaming ideal because you can divide the resolution by 2. Older panels have often a worse contrast, lower brightness in general and lower viewing angles. Some are good though but I saw a lot of **** panels on older Alienware laptops. sub 300nits is crap imo. I use the scaling on 100% by the way. But on the other hand I was also happy in 2011 with the Vaio Z13 with its incredible 1080P in a 13inch laptop which was unheard of in those days and great for high dpi work. HIgh hertz screen are an issue though indeed. In general I do not see a lot of high refresh panels in laptops anymore. Which I would like to see. But you guys are talking about panels which where also used for 3D right? I recalled those for not being that great in terms of colors and contrast.

I have seen fans die out in Alienware systems yes. They are just off the shelf fans just as other manufacturers use. It heavily depends though on how your laptops are used. If its only on flat desks they will live longer than if you keep it running while moving so it will wear out in various other dimensions. I also have seen Clevo machines that where rendered useless and they couldnt get a fan replacement anymore also not on alixpress and similar websites. I modded a few fans for friends so they could use their machines again. This is one of the reasons why I didnt want to buy a Clevo. Battery tech did improve. Where most old li-ions would die out around 300 cycles after 2 years of use and a much lower as advertised capacity, now li-ion/polymer can last up to 2000cycles with a lot less loss of capacity. This is also the reason why I bought the AW15, the battery cells in this machine are topnotch and made by Toshiba istead of cheaper Simplo cells that show wear after mere months as shown in some Clevo machines.

Ofcourse the AW15 cpu doesnt run at 4.3ghz 24/7. It is a lower specced CPU in terms of raw ghz by design. Not with performance per clock.

I doubt the statement about the 6hours battery time by the way, I never saw this machine running even close to 6 hours and reviews also state the same. But if it truly does, good for you.

In the end Alienware doesnt care for customers that wish for the machines that you want to have. They do not sell well, and what they have created nowadays do sell well. I cant even imagine though you guys do not mind to carry a near 5kg laptop everyday. But really 90% of the people do not want that and the ones what do want pure performance build a very high end hexacore/octocore gaming PC for example for the same money. The size is a big compromise for many people and that is my point. These are portable enthusiast notebooks instead of desktop replacement enthusiast notebooks. I do agree Alienware drops the ball in some area's. The bios is one of them and the fhd screens on the newest machines with only 220nits. I find that to be inexcusable. They still sell the AW18 which does have a replaceble CPU, not so sure about the GPU if it uses MXM modules as ewll. But it does seem to be the style of machine that you guys like.

You make some valid points but In my opinion overstate the value of it and a re overstating your opinions about what total garbage the new machines would be. The differences aren't that large in terms of performance. Just as that Sandy Bridge core cpu's still perform near as well compared to the latest Skylake versions. That is mainly my point. A lot of you guys are talking about the new products like they are Packard Bell low end crap that do not perform at all. Which is not true. Also there are some issues with thorttling on some models yes. But I have tested and now own 1 AW15 and I didnt encounter any of those issues. They keep turbo boosting in my configurations. For me the problem was that some stated that a 680M for example would outperform a 980 and even with a ULV cpu that wouldnt be the case. If the 980M would perform better on the highest end non BGA cpu with a large cooler? Yes that might be the case. In my opinion no laptop is made for 24/7 usage, the larger Alienwares are also very noisy in terms of fan noise as well and still run above 60c. But if that is your cup of tea, than that is okay. I enver got the market anyway why you would rather buy an oversized desktop which performs maybe 10 or 20% better in real life use compared to a lower priced but much higher specced desktop which performs 200% (I even built these machines in small footprint sized cases such as the Silverstone FT3).

Ofcourse I rather want a expandability if possible as an option but also the small chassis that is used now. But there is always a compromise somewhere with laptops.

Wow the intelligence is dripping from your post...........I highly doubts your system would outperform a current day 6core corei7 with a pair of 980's.

 

The phenomenon you're describing for UHD running at 1080p is called "pixel doubling" and it does not work. It needs to be supported by the panel itself, and it is not by current laptop 4K panels. It will still look "not right".

120Hz panels are the best for gaming though. I can't comment on whether or not their colours or contrast are good; this panel is better than desktop panels I've run across and better than my D900F's panel so I have only a few points of reference. But the current IPS panels are 60% or 72% NTSC with 25ms to 35ms response times for 60Hz panels and are only 6-bit colour. It's not an upgrade over my panel, even if it's IPS.

Clevo does need some hunting, but Eurocom sells and RJTech has tons of parts. Mythlogic might sell them too; they've been known to help clevo users out of warranty. Again though: It's more of an anomaly.

I didn't mention it being 4.3GHz 24/7. I mentioned that OCing is worthless because the CPU is limited to 47W TDP. My 3.5GHz 4800MQ running at 0.9976v (yes, under 1v) can cross 50W easily when I render out videos from Shadowplay in Handbrake, etc. With your machine, I'd be throttling, unless you have a "defective" CPU.

If a gigabyte model can get 6 hours then his M18x R2 can. It has a large battery, and with his Mux switch running on iGPU only, 6 hours is not a long shot. Your battery may very well have less capacity.

They did care. They did sell well. Why do you think Alienware had so much business in the past?

These are not "portable enthusiast notebooks". These are "medium-sized gaming notebooks", and a large number of them have issues even though you do not. The reason none of these are enthusiast notebooks is because they all have Optimus, all have TDP-limited CPUs, all have soldered components and finally, their cooling systems are a far cry from other machines in their size/weight class (like the P6xxSx that you said you didn't want for reasons pertaining to the battery and hinge).

The AW18s are limited edition now. They do have a replace-able CPU but Intel does not make nor sell those anymore. The GPUs are MXM. It's the same AW18 that was always there; simply had a BIOS update to hold 900M GPUs properly. It is the style of machine we like, even though the M18x R2's features were superior.

I re-stated the facts (not opinions) because they are facts. I've seen many users complain, and seen a lot of indications as to performances of various machines. The value of my points matter differently to different people: as we understand already, you want something more portable with enough power for gaming, mostly at stock card settings. Which is fine. But it doesn't mean us performance laptop enthusiasts who expect a certain thing over the years from AW are going to just jump at the new stuff as if it's the wave of the future. To us, it's flat downgrades for OUR needs.

Again, the IPC is not what I am referring to. It's the TDP limit, where these chips can't even hold stock turbo all the time. People incorrectly assume that games are the most demanding scenarios, and many users buy performance laptops to do more than just game... including myself.

As I said before, I'm sorry if anyone made you feel like a 680M is a better card than a 980M. It isn't and everybody here knows this. What we were getting at is that a machine with a 680M that can be upgraded is potentially more useful/desired than a machine with a 980M soldered to the board. Since the machine with the 680M can likely hold the 980M and the 980M's successor, this is factually true.

There are laptops like the P570WM that are designed to be portable servers. I run ALL my laptops 24/7 and due to my insomnia, on particularly bad days I might even use them for more than 20 hours in a day. I expect the same out of any desktop I've ever owned and my Clevos have never disappointed me in this regard. Hell, my old HP pavillion never disappointed me in this regard. A laptop is a computer. Computers can run 24/7. Just because it's in a portable form factor doesn't mean it needs breaks as long as temperatures are fine.

It's funny you mention that. Back when I bought this laptop I'm on right now, a similarly specced desktop was for the most part about $300 less than my laptop. 120Hz 1080p panel, the same brand of SSDs and HDDs in the same sizes, 3D vision glasses/emitter, a good wifi card, a decent keyboard and generic mouse, including a battery into the cost factor (not a UPS; that'd be more expensive), A basic microphone and speakers and webcam, a SLI board with a desktop i7 and two GPUs, 16GB of RAM, etc. If you're comparing a desktop without peripherals that a laptop has as standard and saying it costs less and performs better because you're dumping the money into extra parts, your arguement is null. Though I DO agree that the prices are ridiculous as-is right now, especially considering the design of the 980M being inferior to 780Ms in general (even though the card itself is more powerful) and the fact that it isn't full GM204 when 780Ms were full GK104. I think this is the main issue; that nVidia did not provide us with a properly good lineup this generation like they did with the 700M series. But in 2013? Times were beautiful. People were clocking 780Ms to match desktop 680s and had some beautiful laptop | desktop parity.

You're right, there is always a compromise with laptops. And your compromise is power, upgrade-ability, overclockability, modularity and other various features for your size and battery life. And that's FINE. I would be surprised if the whole world wanted powerful machines like I do. But Mr. Fox and myself and others rather sacrifice size, weight and battery life for immensely powerful, cool, overclockable, high-end, modular, enthusiast systems which are STILL portable; much more so than any desktop in the world will ever be, plainly because of the battery, internal keyboard and mouse device, speakers and screen.

Want to know our problem? Intel has decided nobody needs performance CPUs anymore, and nVidia has decided they want to gimp the mobile GPUs to sell better ones later on. Clevo did not accept it. MSI, ASUS, Gigabyte, Razer, Lenovo (consumer and business lines), Dell (business line), HP (business line) and Alienware have accepted it and moved on. We expected the previous kings of the mobile market, Alienware, to make a stand. And we requested that a stand be made, and got responses that it wasn't happening. We're left with lack of choice here. Clevo has given choice to both sides: the thin, well-cooled, powerful P6xxSx/P6xxRx series, the midrange W230SD/W230RD (assumed this will happen) and N1xxSD/N1xxRD machines and the high end P7xxZM/P7xxDM machines and the penultimate gaming laptop, the P870DM, so good that even lacking the hexacore desktop CPUs, it's still considered more of a sidegrade to the P570WM.

Again, for the third time, we're fine if you like what you have. But you're not looking for enthusiast laptop performance. You're not looking for an enthusiast laptop. You're looking for thinner, more portable machines with enough power to game on, and the lack of upgrade-ability is not enough of an issue for you to deter your purchase. And there's nothing wrong with that. But trying to say your machine is equivalent to or better than the ones we're considering/thinking/talking about is just not true. It's a worse machine, that's more geared towards more casual users who don't care about Optimus' downsides and prefer the battery life/smaller form factor above all else. You can't beat laws of physics.

 

The 3D 120Hz screen on the M17x R4 and AW 17 R1 was impressive. Once in a lifetime thing, apparently. Glad to have experienced it.

Man, I miss Alienware. What's wrong with these guys at Dell. Dell just spent $67B on EMC Corp. They paid 28% over current value.

 

Truth. The only "benefit" of BGA over sockets is form factor and cost. However, we're at a point where most people buying laptops want them as thin & light as possible, so those considerations seem to trump all the benefits of sockets (as far as most consumers these days are concerned).

This is the real issue, and is often over-looked in discussions/arguments. It would be the same problem if the only machines being offered were gigantic 18" SLI machines that weighed 20lbs.

Different people want different machines, but now, beyond Clevo, there aren't really any companies that cater to almost all tastes (I guess MSI deserves an honourable mention for sort-of trying).

 

It was indeed a nice screen, but I just must have IPS - the colour distortion that occurs on even the best TN panels when you so much as slightly move your head is something I sadly cannot live with.

If I could have fit an IPS panel in my AW17 R1 I would have kept it. I was in love with that thick, heavy and solid machined aluminum lid that could almost hold my weight if I stepped on it, not to mention rock-solid hinges. And being able to access the inside after removing only two screws. That's how a DTR should be built.

Same thing here, it's why I've gone through so many. They all have issues, even the better ones. I liked the Clevo P750ZM, but the overall build quality has lacking compared to past AW machines, and the keyboard would get warm/hot, even when idle.

 

@J.Dre needs a X9 from Eurocom. Let me know, I can get you like 15% off or something.( If you promise to do a nice full review)

 

@J.Dre would feel like he had died and gone to computer heaven... literally.

Every decent and self-respecting computer geek, gamer, overclocker or professional that needs a good mobile workstation owes it to their self to get a beautiful EUROCOM X9. I don't even want to look at my other computers any more. They are all inferior in comparison. Heck, if I could, I would trade both the M18xR1 and M18xR2, their respective Orion backpacks and a closet full of spare parts for one X9... it's that good. If it had 980 SLI I might even throw in the Panther, but I think I might end up missing that awesome hexacore CPU. But, in all other respects the X9 Desktop Laptop has even the Panther beat. And, with @Prema's exclusive firmware available on day-one, the X9 owner will have a distinct advantage.

 

For the first time in a long time.. I've actually wanted a new machine. Looking forward to your review.

UPDATE: Just noticed the full review is up.. wow.. it's got a ligit teardown section !! RESPECT!
You've been busy my friend

https://biosmods.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/sky-x9/

 

Not done yet. The overclocking will begin soon. I have a few personal things to get done first, and an unexpected event that I need to address first. Plus, things are crazy busy at work now. I meant to already have that part done. You'll be amazed when you see how this sucker overclocks. What I will be demonstrating is not be something you will find in a mainstream review. While those are a nice resource for things like professional photos and specs, they don't get to the meat and potatoes features of a machine from an enthusiast perspective. I will be showing what it can really do, how well it does it, etc.

 

I will trade you a X9 then for both of those. Just had to ask.

 

OK, let's do it. Send me a PM if you're serious. I'll even throw in all of the spare parts for the M18xR1 and M18xR2. These machines don't make me happy any more. I've been spoiled permanently by the X9.

 

Why don't you start selling them part by part ? Your videocards alone will probably NET you the cash you need for a X9.

I bet you could get 3,000$ for those two laptops together, in the worst case, I believe you can always trade in any unwanted Alienware to Eurocom for 25% off , like the M17X-R2 you still have. Then sell the others and pimp it out ! Keep the best of your drives and bingo !

Think about it, the M18XR1, if you upgrade motherboard and I/O board can then run SLI 980M. Which will still outperform in gaming, the X9. but its about at the same price tag equivalent for performance. Its also smaller, and has abit of a prestige to it on its own.


I was kind of joking about the trade,but lets think for a second, you have plenty you can sell to afford it. I can send people to you who ask for parts that you might have.

Anyways the X9 you tested used a desktop version of the gpu, the SLI 980M should be much better.

 

Sorry for not responding sooner, fellas. I never received an alert from your mentions. Something wrong with the forum?

Anyway, I'd consider that. I've gone through Eurocoms webpage and have configured the X9. Their component prices are insanely high. 64GB's of memory is $1435. A discount would be the only way I'd even consider purchasing from them... I've been waiting for XoticPC to get their hands on them.

But it looks like you're trading with @Mr. Fox. Go for it! I'd love to see a review.

 

You haven't been paying attention, bro. I have an in-process review going on right now on Prema's web site. Overclocking comes next, once the @Prema firmware is finished.

Look here: https://biosmods.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/sky-x9/

 

I sold both of my laptops, Alienware M18xR2 and Alienware 18. Sadly even with both sold I didn't have enough for the X9 configuration I want.

I've been saving some amount from each paycheck though so I can get one now but want to see that 980 SLI setup come to life.

 

Yeah Laptop RAm (So-DIMMS fore DDR4 are not only more expensive, but more rare, and testing them to insure quality, only adds to thier price, having each one tested individually before being placed into your laptop though, comes with a cost, however, for the quality you get the price is a minimum premium for such a service. Better with peace of mind knowing your not going to be sending back the laptop because it is behaving randomly then it doing so and going through a nightmare just to fix a small issue that money saving techniques have afforded you. If you want mediocre, Alienware is re-releasing the old AW18 with hardware from the last few years for the same price as next gen components and laptops. (sub quality, sub performance for a premium price ! Enjoy! But the RAM is cheaper, cause its left over DDR3 SODIMMS from whatever their refurbished bin still holds._

What are you missing, maybe we can come to some sort of agreement, where we send you one with a harddrive, or less RAM maybe no videocard at first, just use whatever you have lying around MXM 3.0b form factor, and then buy what your missing when the time comes. Just trying to help you know. We can not sell pure barebones, theres rules when selling Clevo's, however, as a previous laptop owner there are some small exceptions that can be done, and maybe in the short run they save you some money, and you can buy what you need incrementally.

All I can say, is RIGHT NOW is the time to buy them for a good price. You have 2 weeks or so, to get them like this sort of deal. Any business only makes special deals when it serves them best, being honest with you here, because its RIGHT after Halloween, and beginning of the month, and the start of XMAS season, and after thanks giving and daylight savings etc.. this is a the calm before the storm, prices will increase later, but for 2 weeks - all things should be easier to get, you have more of our time to make deals. But not afterwards. I can't stress that enough. The next break where things go slow, will be like February, just before spring break.Then like May..or June...






I also know, if you can get 3 people or more to buy the X9, they will give you a group deal, which are usually quite amazing. Its not like you all have to put the money into one pot, but you all have to check out the item, pay for it and say your part of the same group, within a reasonable amount of time and will be credited extra. You can always ask the sales department what the deal is exactly, I think they can go as low as 25% off on some models. Maybe the X9 even, I do not know, but because Eurocom was first they get a special privilege to sell first too, just like why they're the only guys who can sell the graphics card individually without pull them from laptops or kits intended for upgrades to laptops directly, because they been in the business for 25+ years and were basically first. So, before the equivalent model comes out for other distributors, and before they all have the same standardized pricing, which is supposed to be something MSRP $3400 , you can save abit extra too.

(Plus, if you find someone who can help you deal directly, maybe you can get even further discounts from Eurocom, if not some extra incentives.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regardless, the fun thing about the X(, that no one seems to have mentioned is the INSANE CUSTOMIZABILITY ! You can have SLI 980M for christ sake with a 6700K WTF!!!

you guys don't get it, this is soo insanely fast, its retarded. This will OUTPERFORM X99 chipsets with 980 Ti's

meaning - once again - it might even be as cheap if not cheaper then a desktop for performance !


you can also have a single 980 desktop card in there, its fast, its simple, it becomes abit more cost effective, and is ALMOST as powerful as SLI 980M, but you get what you pay for you know. But, in terms of games that don't scale well with SLI, you get full performance, so it detracts from the CPU much less as well. This only adds performance to it !

I haven't gotten to test one myself, but when I do, I am sure what I am saying will hold true. Has anyone else thought of getting one, or tested one, or looking to get one ? I will add my name to the group if people want to do a group buy. No joke.

 

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231916

look there 16GB DDR4 in CANADA on NEWEGG.ca is $300+

@J.Dre So $1300-$1400 for 64 GB of RAM , MATCHED ! SODIMMS even ! in the X9 is INSANELY GOOD PRICE ! **** ! DELL WOULD CHARGE YOU 1800-2500 probably for that , I'm relatively certain.

 

DDR4 memory is way overpriced for what it offers. That's a bit ridiculous.

But sure, I suppose considering the prices now, Eurocom prices are reasonable. Prices will go down a lot by next summer, I bet.

 

Any plans for Clevo to make 18.4 inch model? Im not interested in 17'

 

As of right now, there are no 18.4" Clevo's in the works as far as we know. They've been doing an excellent job at extreme performance 17.3" laptops (Clevo X7200/P570WM, P870DM, etc.)

Here's the thing(s) (no offense to you or Eurocom btw):

Eurocom does do barebones from what I've seen. I bought my P570WM barebone from them last year. I actually got it for a decent price, had I known about the 10% student discount it would have been even better. So I don't see why I couldn't get a P870DM barebone unless something changed.

Now the next thing is pricing. Configuring the exact same P870DM on Mythlogic is $2,680.15 and on Eurocom it is $3,565 USD. That's a $884.85 difference and even with a 10% student discount it's still a $528.35 difference. Also the CAD to USD conversion isn't right. On the EC website it converted the $4,046 CAD machine to $3,565 USD but in reality it should have been around $3,103.47 USD, which is still more expensive than Mythlogic but with a 10% student discount it comes closer, which is much better.

If the pricing is brought down I would be very interested but there's two more things stopping me from going with the purchase right now. On Mythlogic's site, I can have the chassis custom painted and even have custom text/designs on the LCD cover and on the inside under the LCD (where it says Sky X9). I don't think Eurocom does any custom designs(even if I just want different text).

Lastly, the 980 SLI setup. There's supposed to be a PREMA Edition P870DM. I'm damn near positive it will be the only one I want as it is the one most likely to have 980 SLI. There's no guarantee if I order the Sky X9 that I can get 980 SLI later, whether it's a buying issue for the cards or the heatsinks.

Otherwise I'd buy one right now, but I've waited months after selling my Alienwares and don't want to get one right now then find out a few weeks later I could have just gotten 980 SLI.

 

`

Very well, I can get that guarantee for you, I know them well enough, and know that they will stock for the next 18 months at least. As for pricing, the USD was 36% like not too long ago, you can't blame a Canadian site for having higher USD value now, when the USD value dropped 5-6%.
That is really most likely their webmasters fault, since Eurocom is a Canadian company, really. On that note, they are Canadian, our entire country has about as many people as newyork has. We can not afford screw ups, or sending out low quality stuff. Everything is given that almost white glove handle and care. Thats usually an extra premium for such a service. Since they're not rushing through 10,000 Laptops a month and instead run through 2500, the quality assurance is more spot on.

Anyways, I can tell you, they will match whatever pricing you can show them. I know Mythlogic, a year ago, when I asked them to help a customer, they couldn't match the price. I tried back and forth to tell them the benifit of doing so, they budged abit, but not really. You see, they have to buy from a Clevo distributor like Sager or Eurocom, and then add their own labels afterwards. These two companies get first dibs on the higher quality products. At Eurocom we keep the 70%+ ASIC boxes and bins for ourselves and let the other companies who are decades younger, get the others. Not that what they are getting is bad or doesn't work, just can't compete if you were to push the limits.

Sager will not budge on pricing by a long shot, they start much higher, and might be able to match stock prices of other companies. So good luck with them, and because they're in the US, they have a few more orders, and thus less quality control. Canadians on the otherhand, are known world wide for being hard working, and being peaceful and friendly and nice etc.. really, they can't afford a screw up, the numbers are not there. But this is also why, they're products are better, you are getting the TOP tier of the pick from the bins. Not the middle or mediocre last few that get all these rebrands.

The pricing is screwed up on the site anyways. I also think I've let people know, the time for a deal, is now. really. Also Eurocom adds more components to their motherboard, higher end components too, then mylogic, maybe we do not all need them, or if things work fine and you do not overclock at all, you might never notice the difference. Things like better capacitors and TPM and the customs Prema bios started with Eurocom, and have always been included as a standard. (maybe not the bios, thats always been available, but not always standard.)


I used to buy from DELL, because I at least knew if there was an issue with the laptop (which was 35% of the time) I could exchange it, over and over and over (Once did this 8 times and took 6 months)... eventually I got sick of crappy quality. I started looking for better alternatives. I did end up with some promises from DELL, they did send me some parts that they , from a corporate promise, told me was the best of the best in quality, and I built three laptops from them, and , they worked, flawlessly, and beyond what was expected, but I had to create a huge fuss politically for them, and start blogging about them on 100+ sites everyday for a month before they were willing to compensate me for my time and effort and award me proper replacement parts for the laptops I had. I've since, of course sold these laptops, some even on NBR forums.

I started buying various laptops and laptop parts from MSI and ASUS and IBM DELL and Clevo's, and found Eurocom, and was pleasantly surprised. Not that some of the ones form other vendors were not good, like Gateways and Toshiba's but there consistency was ..something I cared for, and wasn't guaranteed. I have a pile of laptops from the last 5 years, 18 laptops high. Yet none of my laptops from Eurocom are in there. I've got a few too. Never have any issues with them, or I would be on the Clevo forums more often. Sadly I don't really know anyone on there really..of the guys who frequent it , if any, solely. Now that is peace of mind.

Another thing I like dealing with a smaller company (not too small, they have 60 employee's or something in one location alone), but when I did want support, it was fast, and personal and didn't go from one guy to the next, they remembered who I was, helped me, and was able to address it in an almost 1 to 1 fashion . It was not like some ticket work load, that some guy had to do, everyday the same boring thing, they actually seemed to enjoy what they did, and helped, even made some suggestions, it wasn't like some Remedy system where tickets go and random person picks it up over and over, until you dealt with 10 different people, explaining the same issue over and over, and they only have the solutions that are written down on their own private internal forum of how-to's. The guys I talked to, had 2 decades of experience with Clevo's doing exactly this. You can talk to whomever you want at the other Clevo companies, but, your not going to get 1 on 1 with someone of this calibre, not a chance.

I've always been a technical guy, but that was the first time I spoke to someone, I was sure knew more then me, about the topic I was talking about, when I called in for technical support. When I used to call DELL, I used to have the guys take notes, and publish what I was reporting so the next guy would know there is an issue, and then I would call back to follow up to tell them how I fixed it. Reverse customer technical support. HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE DONE THIS OR HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE? ever call a place, and you know more then them about the product they sell, that you bought from them. Its silly. Anyways - not with Eurocom, too small, too much of a personal love for these guys. Maybe if you did have an issue with Mythlogic, they'd try and help you, but no way their company has been around for almost 30 years, I am also willing to bet, the customer service is not going to be the same.
I do bet their paint jobs are the nicest and coolest thing this side of laptops though ! Its just they get lower binned components and pick last, and have a higher chance of having issues with their laptops. Especially since multiple people have to disassemble them, just to paint parts, that might not always be the same people, for now, they're trick is to be extra-super small with a dozen employee's, which should work. But, they don't get the best parts, and they do not get the best price either. They can not make you the same deal. too much of the price has got to pay their bills. This is why they do the paint jobs and a few other do-it-yourself things, for a price. They need it. The otherstuff, that they do not do special stuff for, they're selling at their cost, almost, because that's just how business is done, better off with a customer then not. best thing for more business, is some business.period.

Sager gets some of the best parts too, but mixes it all up, and because of how large they are, not the same chance of not getting a defective product, however, I will say, when dealing with any Clevo, your chance of getting something DOA or broken or screwed up is soo much less likely then a DELL or Lenovo or othercrap that its almost not comparable. Its a real shame how low the bar is set by DELL in terms of quality assurance. They are quite literally that sweatshop factory quality with people who contemplate just dying rather then continuing to work for DELL. Even DELLs XPS have started to suck as much as Alienware has gone down the drain.

Toshiba's used to make some nice laptops, I used to be a Satellite fan for like 5-6 years. Then, they started to be made cheaper and have less and less options and - bah screw that, I started looking around.

 

Can I get a job at Eurocom please?

 

yeah, that would be like plan b for me if my biotech career doesnt pan out

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

LOL, you weirdo's.