I hope it isn't just me

Hey all! Long time lurker here. You all certainly have the highest level of knowledge concerning Alienware systems, and so I decided to join in on the discussions. I ordered my M17x back in March, and it arrived while I was home on leave in April (actually two days before my return). Anyhow, my M17x is spec'd out, but it runs my games rather poorly, and after installing ATI drivers, 10.4, it seems to have slowed down even more. I was getting approx 25-35 FPS out of Crysis with maxed out settings running at 1920x1200, but now it is down to around 20FPS. I have also tried to run Metro 2033, and it seems rather slow and un responsive when maxed out. Thing is, I had a Clevo, with a quad core, dual 9800M GTXs, and four GB of RAM, and it ran Crysis at the same FPS. Most taxing point in that game seemed to come at the very beginning when the plane comes into the picture, and even my old system would slow down to the teens and even single digits on the FPS. I do not seem to have gained anything, and in fact after the latest ATI driver install, things have gotten worse. I do not notice any flickering in the screen, or anything of the sort, and every other program runs very well. Just my games are not running nearly as well as I had hoped for them to. Am I doing something wrong, or am I wrong to expect so much performance out of my new laptop? Other than the latest driver install, my software build is the stock build from the factory.

Attached is a pic of what my CCC looks like. Any assistance would be more than greatly appreciated, and thank you in advance for any help you might provide!

 

Other than a driver rollback, I don't know what else you could do right now.

 

A lot of hard core gamers will reinstall their operating system every once in a while from scratch to speed up performance. Every time you delete software it tends to clutter the registry. These errors can greatly slow down your system. Also some drivers must be removed before installing new ones. If you system is running that bad you may want to try a registry cleaner first but they also have problems. Registry cleaners can get a little too aggressive sometimes and clean off Dll's that are required. Than other software becomes unstable.

If you do decide to reinstall your operating system and drivers, use the most up to date ones from Dells website using your Call Tag. I find it takes a whole day to back everything up and rebuild operating system and drivers from scratch. Very important to install the drivers in the exact order that Dell recommends. If you install drivers out of order than you will have system instability. Print off the sheet that shows the driver install order found near the Call Tag page. Write down each driver that you install on the page to make sure you don't miss any. The only problem you will run into is deciding which is the correct driver if they have more than one to chose from. For example, often you will find 2 or 3 bands of DVD driver to choose from and the same goes for other hardware. Print off a list of your hardware before starting.

Also try removing the antivirus and than playing a game and see if that makes a difference. If your game runs faster than you have isolated part of the problem. Try Microsoft Security Essentials that won't slow your games down. Also another possibilty is that you could have spyware slowing your system down.

Also make sure you are not running in STEALTH mode as others have made a similar mistake. The M17x has a feature called Stealth Mode which turns off the high-performance graphics cards and switches to an integrated graphics card. Depending on your version it can also slow clock speeds of GPU and CPU. Some people on this forum has found that they were playing games in stealth mode and that was a simple fix. Stealth mode is a low power consumption mode which lowers the clock speed of the GPU and CPU to conserve power. Stealth mode disables your GPU or GPUS if you have crossfire and runs off a secondary GPU built into the motherboard.

 

Well thts not good, I'm expecting my m15x to play as good as the xbox 360.. But if your m17x isn't doing it then I doubt the m15x will

 

i know that metro is very heavy, and i wouldn't blame the m17x for it.
It's poorly implemented game, as it should run smoothly on those machines.
As for Crysis, i can confirm that maxed out it runs at about 20-25 fps on mine.

 

That's another idea. A periodic "fresh install" is needed; I like to do mine every six to 12 months, depending how degraded my system is.

Though I am not sure if that is necessary in his particular case.

 

Also a lap top cooler/chill pad can also help increase FPS. A hot laptop won't play games well. Also your hardware may have become dirty preventing heat from transfering of heat sinks properly. Your system is pretty new for dirt to be a major problem yet.

 

same here, format every 6 months.

 

I guess the fresh install is going to be my best bet. I used Driver cleaner, to uninstall the factory installed drivers, installed 10.4, and then installed the CCC from the Dell drivers package (since the 10.4 does not seem to work installing the CCC), all of which I found out about from this site.

I did not mention it, but also FEAR 1 hangs up on occasion, and drops dramatically in the frame rates, but but FEAR 2 seems to run fine. I was just wondering if it might be because these games I am trying to run are designed to run better on Nvidia cards or not. Just throwing darts here. I also have the power settings to maximize performance, so no throttling should be going on.

I have been in the IT industry for 13 years now, so the fresh install is not an issue, but knowing the order to install the drivers is a big deal. Thanks for that info!

 

Two other things to look at are defragmatation and Windows updates.

When using a HDD I used a program called Diskeeper and found it was fantastic. Although once its boot time defrag did wipe my system out. The new SDD drives do not require defragmentation.

Windows updates may be necessary but also note that sometimes Windows recommends driver updates that are not necessary. When windows recommends a driver update it is usually a generic driver and something to avoid. I would only download drivers from Alienware/Dell. If you have extra hardware like printers only download those drivers from that manufacturer and never dowload from Windows.

Also have seen a lot of problems with printer drivers, (ESPECIALLY HP). I prefer Samsung SCX-4500. When Vista came out HP was very slow to update drivers and was selling truckloads of laser printers that were not vista compatible. Have had flawless performance from Samsung on both vista 32 and windows 7 64 bit.

 

Cryo LX sitting underneath my machine as I type this. Temps are definitely not the problem, as it stays nice and cool. My last laptop got very hot, this one stays much cooler. I also blow it out every 2-3 days, with canned air. That is a must out here, because the dust will most certainly begin to collect.

 

Diskeeper 2010 Pro Premier running as well, defrags ran every day. No Windows updates needed, and I have it set to check, but ask me what to install, as opposed to automatically installing everything. I never install Windows driver updates, on any system. I really do appreciate all of the idea you are throwing at me though, thank you! Please, if you have any others, keep them coming, as I am hoping to hit on something at some point.

 

Is it possible that adding a better thermal paste would help fps because of heating? Or will this make no difference?

 

According to this review you should be getting 52 frames with FEAR on a 4870 CF. Check off the game and hit restrict to see the frame count. You have a really high end rig so you should be able to get more frames than you currently are.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html

 

He mentioned that the system was running cool. I would think if paste had dried up in the desert heat than the system would be running extremely hot. He says it is running cool so that sounds like a software problem. Personally have never had to reapply paste so not sure what failure systems are like. I know the paste transfers heat.

 

I do indeed have Fear 1 on my system. I get between 60 and 75 FPS, actually, but then suddenly, it will just drop to single digits for a bit, and eventuially pick back up.

I have Norton Internet Sec. 2010 running, and have it disabled while I am trying to play. I also have Malwarebytes, but it is not running while I am in my games either.

 

Does AMD have a stress test application on their site. I remember Nvidia did. It pushes the video card really hard and than reports back to you.

Most of my problems have all been corrupted registry either by software or by using registry cleaners. You said you used a driver cleaner. It is possible that this has created problems in the registry.

 

I just wonder if anyone has added better thermal past to help heat lower greater.. That shouldn't hurt right? If anything would it be better for gaming fps?

 

Your problem is Norton. It is impossible to remove all traces of Norton with add delete software, and the Norton sweepers will not clean the registry. The only way to completely rid your system of Norton is by completely reinstalling the operating system.

Use Microsoft Security Essentials, it is FREE, and will not use much recources. Yesterday there was a long discussion about antivirus and I am looking for that post.

 

I am unable to locate any sort of a stress test on the AMD site.

My registry seems fine. Driver cleaner only removes the drivers that you specify, allowing you to go through and check each individual deletion. I think I will restore my image, back to the original config, since this has only slowed down my games. I will do a fresh install at some point, but it can be tough, when you are working 84 hours a week. So, at least I can get back to where I was previously.

Thank you, very much, for all your help. I do not yet know how to re, but would be glad to rep you for all your efforts.

 

I had a problem after I downloaded drivers for my Nvidia card. Even though it was the latest, I couldnt even run half of my games or get into steam. I had to do a system restore and just forget about the drivers. Not sure that helps any, but heres hoping you get everything sorted out.

 

Believe me, you can disable Norton IS 2010. Having been doing this for so long, I was a big anti Norton guy, until IS 2009 came out. That thing never brings my system about 1-2% utilization, and has not caused me a bit of issues. I now swear by it, but only until the next version. I may go back to hating Norton/Symantec if they ever produce a product like they have ever since Symantec purchased Norton in the first place, until these past couple of years. I am not trying to rid my system of Norton, not at all. I only disable the services, when I am in my games, as long as I am not online when I am playing them. From out here, the Internet is so bad, there is no way to play over the Internet anyhow, so no worries there.

 

I'm using the free MS utility now and it's OK I suppose. I did have IS and I can agree with this post in it's fullest form , from being anti-norton to falling in love with IS and it's light package. Unfortunatly, $59.99 for a SINGLE license per year is expensive, so for now, I'm on the MS free.

 

Sorry guys, after the first couple of posts, I realized I had fat fingered my username. I recreated my account, correctly this time. Yes, Norton IS 2010 is the best I have found, especially when you couple it with Malwarebytes. I have used Mcafee, Trend Micro, Symantec, Norton on Windows 3.11 and above, and countless other brands, but the new Norton is the best I have used thus far. I am not selling, or in any way affiliated with Symantec, and I actually cannot believe the fact that I am singing their praises now, after so many years of hatred.

 

Yes you can disable it but you are also disabling the things it has control over. Remember the movie Alien? It doesn't let go, lol.

 

You are absolutely correct. If you try and remove it, forget about it, a fresh install is definitely in order. Even Symantec's own tools do nto work, kind of like the migration tool MS created, to go from MS Mail, to Exchange 5.5. It never worked either, and you just ended up with a bunch of corrupted mailboxes that were worthless to anyone, and a huge pain to try and delete from the server.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware/485665-what-anti-virus-use-your-alienware.html


Read xhero post

 

To be honestI just tried Metro for the very first time, so I really had nothing to base my results on with that. If that is the case, then it could certainly use some tweaking on the code side. But, I did lose a lot of frames with Crysis, by going to the new driver.

 

If heating was an issue to begin with, which it is far from it on my system, then yes, adding some thermal paste should help you out. Cooler temps, on an over heated system, can certainly give you better frame rates. I wish my situation was as easily figured out. I changed to the latest drivers, which is supposed usually speed things up, and it actually slowed my system down a lot.

 

Have you tried playing in a lower resolution? I've never played games in full hd (xept on the ps3 but thats not in the real full hd resolution I think) before so I have no idea how it looks, but if it makes your game lag it seems like the easiest thing to do.

 

Well, this is definitely an option, but runs counter to what I am trying to accomplsih. I actually lost frames by installing the new driver, and am actually well below what a much older non-Alienware system ran the same exact game at. I was hoping someone else may have seen this. I did read that someone else had slower frame rates (after creating this thread) using 10.4, and then downgraded to 10.3, which helped. I may try that, before restoring my image.

Attached is a screen shot of what my temps looks like, currently on my system.

 

Hi B0701

Sometimes manufacturers can water down GPU's or CPU's to save a buck. They do this by cutting a few corners and eliminating a few features. I suspect that most Dell & Alienware GPU's are custom specification and for this reason you should only use Alienwares drivers. I noticed you mentioned a 10.4 drivers which I believe is the most recent driver on ATI's webiste. But when I look up my old Call Tag it is still talking about driver 8.68.2. Perhaps because my original system was built for a single 5870 that it is only showing me one of many options for the 4870. Not a typo, as my call tag shows both 4870 & 5870 drivers, (weird). As long as you got your 10.4 driver from Dell it should work. If you did get it from ATI than I think you should delete and roll back to Dells latest driver. Obviously the newest driver is not compatible or is corrupted on your system. When I had an XPS with a Nvidia GPU I tried to update driver from nvidia but their website was smart enough to send me back to Dell for the GPU driver rather than corrupt my system with a driver that wouldn't work. Where did you get this 10.4 driver from, Dell or ATI?

 

ATI drivers usually improve performance and are very stable as confirmed by many benchmark, reviews and test on this forum on both the M17X R1 and M17X R2.

The Dell drivers are obsolete and should only be used in a last resort manner... (GPU drivers of course) Everything else should be used as recommended by Dell.

 

As a general rule if it is not broken don't fix it. If you are trying to find a solution to a specific problem than by all means change your driver. But driver updates rarely provide any noticable increase in performance. They are usually updated to solve specific conflicts or problems. The reason Dell has not updated the driver is obvious, it has not been deemed suitable for some reason. I went through this with nvidia, Dell was always a few drivers behind.

The Dell driver in question was updated in January which is not all that long ago. One of the reason that computer manufactuerers like to modify GPU's is so that you can't order them from a third party, to save money and to trim power consumption. These modification meant that the standard drivers may no longer work with these cards. If Dells GPU's are unique on laptops than it follows that they also require unique drivers. As this person has said his frames fell after changing the driver.

Not only do you risk damaging your system but also you risk voiding the warranty. If the driver is not approved by Alienware for the GPU you a taking a chance. Most GPU's are already running near capacity and have little room for overclocking. This may be one reason why they want you to use their drivers as opposed to ATI's utilities. Either way the ATI driver has been reported to NOT work by two people.

 

No, that's incorrect. The Cards Alienware uses are 100% AMD boards from AMD. Anyone that uses a MXM3.0b specification compatible board card is going to follow the exact same PCB design AMD or Nvidia uses, minus cooling mounts. ASUS being the exception to this rule, although they're still fully compatible with the drivers, the differences being power pin arrangement. This is more true with propritary and integrated solutions, however you can assume if it's MXM compatible, you can use that manufacture's (AMD or Nvidia's) drivers. That being said, the only changes that can be made to such cards are memory speed, core clock speed, and memory capacity. None of which will have an effect on driver compatibility.

 

There are no industry-wide standard form factor for laptops. All mobile GPU's are custom built to manufacturers standards. For starters the GPU's used by alienware have the ability to go into stealth mode and shut down when not required and use a descrete GPU built into the motherboard. Features like that are not standard and must have drivers custom built. No two manufacturer have the same form factor and drivers must take into account heat load, air flow, fan speed, fan size, wattage, power supply, bios, ect. which all varies according to the design. I think there is a standard mobile 4870 but that it can be tweaked according to manufactureres specs. How Dell tweaked it and what drivers work and don't work is pure speculation.

If what you were saying is true than I think everyone would just upgrade the 4870 CF rather than purchase a whole new system. The discusion would not be about what drivers work but rather where to purchase a mobile 4870 or a mobile 5870. And likewise customers would have simply thrown in a pair of 5870 CF months ago. From what I was told when I placed my order, alienware is still having trouble with the 5870 drivers and getting them to work properly in the m17x. If what you are saying is true that the drivers are standard than this piece of information given me by my sales rep doesn't make any sense.

I know for a fact nvidia drivers could not be used on an XPS 1710 unless they came from Dells site. Perhaps things have changed with AMD but I doubt it.

Also I am not privy to any technical or engineering data but have read that most computer manufacturers cut corners on GPU's to reach price points.

If what you are saying is true than where can I buy a set of mobile 4870 or mobile 5870 that will work perfectly with a m17x and what price?

Also why do you think Dell has not endorced the latest version of ATI driver. If it really does work on a m17x why don't they have it available on their site? My guess is that there is a hardware conflict and that is why several people have complained about frames being droped after upgrading to ATI's latest driver.

 

Here is DELLS official answer to the question from a Dell Laison on the Alienware club site. I found this link after my last post.

Dell ATI Drivers vs Official ATI Drivers? - Alienware Forum - Alienware Club - Dell Community

Yes they modify the drivers
No they don't know if ATI drivers work
No they can't discuss what modifications were made.