Is it possible to talk about alienware without people jumping to bash them?

Not to play Devil's Advocate here, but considering Quagmire's post, if you love your Alienware so much, why aren't you gaming on it instead of making threads like this and the one he also posted?

Not to sound like a whiny runt, but if my Alienware laptop worked correctly, I'd be gaming on it instead of being here myself. (No offense to the fine folks here, the week or so I've spent here has been wonderful, but I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from when I say there's games to be played that I cannot play currently.)

 

Does it help that I'm reading and posting between lives on Rogue Legacy?

 

I don't know what that is, but I'm sure I'd like to play it. At this point I'd even play WoW and I loathe that game.

 

Baah, so much hostility! Do you really know why these kinds of threads keep showing up? It's a moment of social-digital bonding. If we were to make a gianormous LAN party with all of us together, no games would be played. You'd see the M18Xs running screen savers and us busy cracking open one 6-pack after another We make these threads since we cannot meet face to face; still, reading too many posts at once might make you feel tipsy, too, mind you

 

What hostility?

Also, I fail to see the point laughing and joking about others who are jealous because we have something they don't. Just use what you got and ignore those who think otherwise.

It's like there's something to prove when there really isn't. Just game. I'm not sure why "these threads" keeping popping up, but the ones I've seen lately are by the same person. Why are people trying to prove something over the internet in text or type. Do it in game. Walk the walk, don't talk it.

When I game with others online, we don't stop and talk about what we have, we just game.

It's worked for me for the past 32 years, no point in changing it now.

 

For many AW users, the buck doesn't stop at games. Some Brothers use it for design, some for benching. It's always good when people can post back their experiences as a owner, especially if it relates to increasing performance. Heck if I wasn't on here rubbing shoulders with my Brothers and sisters, I wouldn't have my machine running like the evil creature it is today. Cysis 3 wouldn't be running at a solid 60fps on Max and I'd've had a locked down bios with no SSD raid 0 trimming (not good). I have everything to thank to my brothers here.
So with threads like this, Im always willing to hear a brother out. Regardless, it's always intriguing to discuss and deduce the psyc as to why people have a problem with AW.

 

Well, I actually see that you failed to see the humor in the whole situation. I'm still in a good mood because, as brother TBoneSan pointed out, we aren't just a bunch of gamers who got to play games and then go on with our life once we close the lid of our beloved beast. People like us never really "close the lid," or wouldn't have gotten such computer. I'm sure that the majority of us still think of our computer once we're done for the day, more often than we would admit to, because owning and using an M18x/AW18 is one heck of a rewarding hobby and passion we have. We don't just game: we tweak, experiment, push hardware to its limits, overclock, mod, and help each other whenever a problem comes up. This is a community in which we share. Sometimes we just share how good it feels owning and using our computer, and even if we preach at our own choir it doesn't really matter to us. Sometimes we argue and disagree, as in all "relationships" (right, bothers Fox and steve? ), but we are here to listen what the other has to say, give feedback, and support. We game, we talk, we walk the walk.

Cheers

 

Alright, well I'm sorry I don't belong here then. I only came here for AW laptop help, and thought I stick around for a bit. My concern was why worry about what other people think about my gaming system because I'm too busy using it. I see your point in the other things you brought up, but multiple threads on very similar topics about what other people think about my system and how their opinion relates to me and if I should keep my laptop because of what someone else thinks about it I don't see.

And, I didn't see the humor either. You're talking about doing constructive things with your awesome laptop, not sitting around wondering why people are "jelly" of it.

I would have loved to found this community while my laptop was doing what it should be doing correctly and I could have seen the mantra that occurs here, but because mine doesn't, and hasn't, my response to this is extremely biased, in that being "you have a laptop that works, now go use it instead of complaining about what other people think."

I know it seems harsh, but it's not, nor do I mean anyone any sort of ill will regarding this issue, but I feel that some people here are more fortunate than they let on. I love my m17x r3. It's an awesomely large, heavy netbook, because that's about all I can do with it.

That's my point. Nothing more. I feel instead of worrying about what others think, we should be feeling fortunate. Some of us anyway

 

First, I'm really sorry that your computer has never worked as it should have. Second, I think we're misunderstanding each other, so let's clear the air from confusion. I never argued that we keep opening threads that discuss our gaming machine in relation of what people think. This is a big community. This forum has thousands of threads and even more posts. Most of us love our computer. Do you really expect such passionate users to only open threads that discuss how to install a game or a driver? Many here have a special bond with their machines, some more than others, and when they feel that what they love is threatened they defend it. There's nothing bad or immoral in doing so; we are humans and do that all the time, in different ways, for all things/people/ideas we care about. Look at the way people defend their sport team they love the most, their car, their music, their politcal and religious views, and so on when/if they're criticized.

It's not about that we are here because of what other people think. We are here, as I said earlier, to share, and not just to game. Sometimes, in the ocean of technical threads, you may find some that simply celebrate how much we like our Alienware and how glad we are that we are part of a community in which the next guy really understands and gets the whys of our passion and "obsessions." If someone wants to sit down, type, and share his reasons for loving his hobby I call that a positive attitude. Remember, being grateful of something is hardly a bad thing. Others feel they have to sit down and type a defense when they feel attacked. I can't blame anyone who wants to defend his opinions and ideas, since I do that too (don't touch Apple! ). Of course, I understand why you feel you have nothing to be grateful about, considering the bad experience with your computer. Still, I consider a bit harsh asking those who, yes, have been luckier to shut up and just be glad things have worked out well so far for them.

You say you don't belong here, instead I think you do. Agreeing or not, what you're doing here is sharing your feeling and thoughts. If you didn't care what people think (us, members of this community in this case), you wouldn't be posting and replying

Ultimately, I find it humorous not you or your ideas, but that hostile attitude that haters have, in general. It makes me smile because I like to laugh both at the things of life and myself, when tragedy doesn't strike, as it unfortunately may happen in life. I never meant to say that I laugh at you or to what you shared here.

 

Short answer: depression
Another short answer: I do a lot more than just gaming.

 

Did they chase you away from OCN? I noticed you took your sig info down.

 

Please do stick around. Glad you joined us.

I agree with your point. There is no reason to care what others think. That stuff is for yuppie school kids and trolls, both of which are irrelevant social classes.

 

Ah fran, Sorry those guys on the other forum ran you off. There are some terrible trolls over their. I come and go over their, I stick around, get fed up, leave and come back. The ignorance in the notebook thread is rampant. Most reasonable people don't care what you own for a PC, the rest, forget them.

I think its cool you upgraded and shared your benchmarks and what not.

 

Yah, the amount of disrespect and harassment was just too much.
I couldn't make a single comment there without someone making a nasty snide remark or something like that. I was trying to be a contributor and a positive part of the community but everyone simply took it upon themselves to harass me out of that place.

 

Yeah, they like to claim they have a good community, but they don't and they manage it poorly lol. I do however enjoy blocking ads on their webpage.

Everyone over there has their own opinions that are set in stone. Regardless of what you look at. AMD/Intel ATI/Nvidia Desktops/Laptops. They are very particular.

 

It's unfortunate, but simple-minded fools are found in many places. Attempting to communicate with them is like casting pearls before swine. It's best to simply appreciate your superiority to them and move onward and upward. Just leave them to rot in their state of self-deception and ignorance. You have a nice home here, so it's their loss.

 

There are some good people over their, but some... man oh man. doesn't matter the topic, if you don't want what the group mentality has deemed acceptable... forget it

Enjoy NBR, its a great place to learn and share about notebooks

 

Good one, +rep

+rep for a very intelligent post. I couldn't agree more with you. Trolling, intolerance, and blind hatred are not about specific brands or products; they are the result of a quite negative and frustrated personality.

 

Or, it can also be a result of a bad experience that makes someone sour about something. It can be legitimate displeasure for something, and it might be permanent and irreversible brand hatred.

But, on point, I think the legitimate haters of most things are very few and far between. I think most are just talking head trolls that are repeating what they need to in order to be part of the social misfit club they belong to.

 

Agreed, some are just following what others have to say about a product, and they're usually worse than those who drew the conclusions themselves

 

Yeah, but Maingear's customer service is second to none. For the past week I've had AW tell me multiple different things, I've been ignored, lied to, told different things that don't match up, and none of the information is the same at any time at all. I had a tech who was supposed to call me last week and never did, and then when he finally called me back yesterday, I was unavailable and he left me a very exasperated sounding voicemail.

I'm sorry I couldn't get to the phone in time, but there's no need to sound upset because you can't reach me on my time, even though I waited around for you to call me when you said you would and never did.

 

Well, you won't find that around here. Hold your head high, their loss.

 

Which triggers a response that's affected by one's personality. Several (me included) have experienced quite horrifying disservices now and then, at a point they refused to buy a certain product ever again. Rage and disappointment are totally justified in the heat of moment. We are human and we need to vent sometimes or we explode. But the unfounded hatred for hatred's sake we're discussing here, infests certain forums and posts and only reveals a clear trolling-prone personality that certain individual posses. Otherwise we wouldn't keep seeing such intolerance versus certain brands and their users (criticized and even insulted for liking/using certain products) that always submerges whenever "that" brand is named.

No one here's saying that AW service is perfect. On the contrary, it's far from it, and this forum is full of horror stories. Yet, even in spite of those occasions, most of them time they get it right and in the end leave the customer satisfied. Not to mention that I have yet to see other companies who let the customer get his hands on the hardware without voiding the warranty or offered to replace the computer when things go south. What you're talking about is some employees' the lack of professionalism, which unfortunately you can find in any company in the world. Single cases are sometimes used to make generalizations. For instance, I have had both great and horrible experiences with AW service. But eventually AW was able to get it right. Those who live in a real world know that as a customer--one way or another--you have to make your voice heard, even more when you deal with serious issues. Taking a look around you'll find that several people have been quite dissatisfied with Maingear's customer service as well. No one is immune to bad service. The fact that you may have had a great experience doesn't change the disappointment of those who did not; same thing is for Alienware's service. Of course there's room for improvements, and I'm the first who wishes they will improve their overall service, hire better qualified people, improve communication between departments (customers need consistency, not contradictions), and improve quality control before shipping new machines.

 

Yeah. That's right.

And, it is super naughty to act that way, too. That's why we don't like it.

<iframe width='640' height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/XG7xxiAo6xE" frameborder='0' allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

LOL and LOL

I guess that's how we sounded the other day discussing about pro/versus Apple's design

 

we did, ha ha!

 

So far in this thread, you have had only pro-Alienware people speak - there have been no complaints, except for the poor warranty service. Naturally, it's inevitable to some degree that an Alienware notebook forum would only attract that type of demographic so to speak.

Well, at the risk of getting trolled, I am desktop enthusiast so let me speak. I am going to focus this on desktops because that is where the most amount of disagreement lies. To begin with let's look at their current line of desktops, the Aurora 6.

For $1,400 US you get,

Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64Bit, English
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-3820 processor (10M Cache, Overclocked up to 4.1 GHz)
8GB (4 X 2GB) Quad Channel DDR3 at 1600MHz
1.5GB GDDR5 NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 660
1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3Gb/s
No Monitor
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Single Drive: 24X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability

For $1,400 US, that is a very poorly configured system. First, we do not know the quality of the motherboard (I have my doubts though, if it's up to par though with the higher end motherboards from other manufacturers).

To begin with, a Sandy Bridge E, in a $1,400 system? You'd be far better off with an Ivy Bridge or Haswell system. There's very little point to go SBE for a desktop at that budget.
Second, the GPU, a 660 is vastly underpowered for that price point.
There is no SSD included at $1,400. At that price point, even a small 128 Gb SSD (used mainly as a boot drive) would be immensely useful.
Finally, we do not know the quality of the motherboard (probably I would guess not as good as the top ones from Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, et al).

I should also mention that the power supply (Alienware includes an 875W unit) is of unknown quality. Not all desktop power supplies are equal and without extensive testing, I am unable to assess. Historically though, many desktops from boutique vendors have cheaped out the PSU and motherboard, because they know that they are not scrutinized as much by the type of buyer. Given that PSUs happen to be some of the most failure prone parts in a desktop, that's of some concern.

So when desktop enthusiasts say, poorly configured? I feel that such complaints are justified. As a gaming PC, you could build a far better PC at that price point, and I would argue, building it yourself will offer a vastly better configured systems that could yield much better frame rates at the given price. It's even possible that boutiques may as well, although I've always been of the opinion that boutiques are all overpriced (which they must be or else how would their business be profitable?).

The problem I have with the people who buy Alienware desktops is that people who buy them act superior to people that build them, when in reality, they have spent a ton of money to buy a weaker system than building it themselves could have offered, and that act as if they are somehow "superior". Typically I find such buyers who buy such systems are not sophisticated users, gamers who just want to game so to speak. That's fine, but it's their mentality that they are "superior" because they own Alienware that really gets to desktop enthusiasts. The equal here would be someone who is an Alienware laptop enthusiast attacking the Clevo, MSI, or Asus gaming laptop owners just because they own an Alienware.

For GPU performance that you linked, you're kidding right? Let's analyze:

A fully upgraded Alienware M18X r2 (and likely it's successor) runs for approximately $5,000 US (maybe you could negotiate it down by a couple of hundred by the telephone).

For that price, you could build:
Asus Rampage IV Extreme
i7 3930K, which could be OC-ed to around 4.5 GHz, maybe a bit more
A custom cooler like the Phanteks- PH-TC14PE
512 GB SSD
2x GTX Titans

High end full tower case
1000W PSU (or higher)

Edit: I should also mention that the monitor for this system would be a 2560x1440 Korean monitor.


At that price, you're looking at 2x 780Ms, which are roughly a weaker GTX 680 with lower clocks - perhaps 20% slower. That makes the Titan about 60% faster. Both have SLI scaling.
The Alienware 18 comes with a 4930MX. For single core operations, it will trade blows seeing that it's a Haswell against a Sandy Bridge core, although the desktop core should be overclockable to 4.5+ GHz on air. Maybe even a few wins for the laptop CPU for software with the AES instruction set (which no games currently do). But for multicore operations, the Sandy Bridge E will destroy the Haswell by perhaps as much as 40% in some cases. The gap for single thread will likely favor the desktop though once Ivy Bridge E comes out, seeing that it is with a fluxless solder and should use perhaps 15-20% less power. Come to think of it, for $5k, a basic CPU water cooling setup might be affordable within that budget, so 5GHz+ overclocks might be doable (depending on your luck with the silicon lottery).

Also, if you wanted to talk about absolute best performance, LN2 overclocks and even water overclocks will significantly outperform a laptop.



For laptops, I would agree that high end Alienware laptops are among the best built. Asus has historically had a price advantage, but that seems to be fading with the G750 series and plus I believe their laptops' GPUs are soldered (I'd have to look this one up). But most of the criticism is towards Alienware desktops.

Edit:
On that note, I do not feel any animosity towards the laptop community. It's true that desktop enthusiasts are not the most knowledgeable about gaming laptops. But then again, laptop enthusiasts are not the most knowledgeable people about high end desktops either. I would not for example expect most people who use an Alienware laptop as their main rig to focus on things like building a 4 way SLI water cooled rig. It's one of those I know mine, you know yours kinds of things. The only problem I see is when one person like their party is superior to the other, which I see the OP doing. Laptops invariably will have to use less power - that's physics. Desktops simply can afford power supplies of up to 1800W (120V at 15A here in North America) and the potential to provide cooling for such high end rigs. But in return, laptops offer mobility (although admittedly I would not consider the Alienware 18 to be "mobile").

 

Well you've made alot of points. Its hard for me to speak about the attitudes of the Alienware Desktop owners, although I can easily picture where you're coming from.
No doubt you could build a better desktop PC yourself than pre-configuring one from Alienware. But in this example you've given, you must remember that Alienware is essentially a boutique experience in the same vein as Falkon, Origin etc. Therefor its a no brainer that you can build a more power rig yourself and save on having the hard work (or satisfaction) done for you. This is the same thing when comparing your proposed build to a Alienware laptop. Apples and Oranges.
As far as the Alienware attitude goes in the laptop world, alot of us do feel Alienware is superior. However, I feel measuring superiority is much easier with laptops than desktops. The benchmarks clearly show that Alienwares do in fact have the edge, or there is a valid case to argue the Clevo/Sager np570 may.
Many of our top resident benchers like Johnkss and Mr Fox are infact trading blows with the best desktop benchers out there. I'm sure you'll be privy to some links soon enough

Once again, measuring laptop vs laptop superiority is pretty clear cut. I honestly believe, if there were a better brand out there many of us would change teams.

Where on earth did you dig that up from?! Had me in fits

 

A simple look at the URL should tell you that we aren't really concerned about Desktops. A post such as this would be better suited on OCN as we all have our laptops for our own uses other than sitting on a desk 24/7.

 

@HiveMind

You're looking at base level, then laptop vs desktop. It's a well known fact that you will pay through the nose to be anything like a desktop in a portable form factor. When you need something portable, you can't really haul around a fullATX + accessories + 27" 1440p monitor.

Comparing the high end offerings, desktop to desktop or laptop to laptop, is where things get a little more interesting.

You can get an Aurora r4 for around $3100 w/ 3820, nvidia 690, 16gb RAM, DVD Burner, 512gb SSD, and 1tb storage drive. I was able to haggle them down to $2800 w/ NBD shipping. (I chatted in, and asked for a discount. Took 5 minutes.) The motherboard is an Intel Reference board, and the power supply is most likely an FSP or Seasonic value-level product. For future comparison, lets say the smallest IPS screen you can get adds $200, and the worst, gaming quality keyboard adds $50, for $3050.

Alternatively, you can get a similar PC for $2750, with no assembly. Add assembly for $100, and you have a very comparable machine, with separate, harder to claim warranties, and no in home service. (I used cheap parts to make the comparison more suitable, including Corsair ValueRAM, FSP PSU, ADATA SSD, ASRock Extreme 4.) Again, add that IPS screen for $200, and keyboard for $50, for $3000 before assembly.

Compare it to a laptop, and we see the Sager NP9570 come and match it. 3820, 2x770m, 16gb QC RAM, Win7, Samsung 840 Pro 512gb SSD. Runs in around $2850. Weird, isn't it? Upgrade to 780m for $200 more, sitting in at $3050, plus a $50 discount to bring it to $3000 even.

Comparing to an AW laptop, we'll grab the 4800MQ, not the 4930MX. Following Cinebench Multi and several other benchmarks, that's the closest match to the 3820, as long as both are XTU-boosted. So a comparable machine runs at around $3600. (16gb 1600mhz RAM, 512 SSD + 750gb, 2x 780m, AC-spec wireless card, PLS screen.) Add in a decent discount by phoning in, and you can get it down to around $3400. $3300, if you can sell the Dell e-promo card to a friend for 1:1 value.

They're pretty close...

 

@HiveMind...

It takes a very expensive desktop to outperform the M18x. If you look at my benchmark scores and HWBOT profile, you'll see there are plenty of expensive desktops that are squashed by it. More than one desktop owner has been pissed off by an M18x. I'm not really interested in bargains. I wouldn't build a slightly less expensive desktop to match the M18x or beat it by a little bit. There would be no point in that. It would need to be substantially better.

You'll get no argument from me that a $5000 desktop will outperform a $5000 M18x. That is obvious and does not really warrant further discussion. If I had $10,000 of discretionary entertainment funds I would have both. I don't, so I choose the best mobile option money can buy because my career requires extensive travel. I have no use for a desk anchor that can't follow me wherever I go. I'd truly like to have one for sheer vanity, and having the extra toy and HWBOT points would be nice. But, it would be an extra item to have to try to keep dust-free. When I am not traveling, the last thing I want to do when I get home is to park my buttocks at a desk.

I'm sure you can appreciate the basis for this logic. Thanks for sharing your opinions with us. They aren't unique, nor have we been enlightened. Many in this community have an M18x beast and a desktop beast. However, we do get bored with being told we are wrong by rude people that don't really have a basis for thinking such things. I'm not saying you are rude because you were not. However, you're one of the exceptions. Thank you for not being rude. Most of the idiots that criticize Alienware do not even own a computer that I would be proud to have parked in my office.

 

Was it really OCN? Again I'm just baffled. I thought maybe it was a sub forum on NBR, but seem everyone agrees that it was there. Perhaps I'm dense but never got that feeling. Sorry again you got harassed Fran...

So now that we established it was OCN and not here, why don't we start a new OC'ers forum on NBR complete with erroneous sigs and google doc spreadsheets!