M17x BIOS A03 Discussion Thread

Just a suggestion people do a Furmark, 3dmark06 before and after Bios Update.

Just wondering if they adjusted the Fan speed to solve the issue.

 

I compared both before and after and after i did have a higher score, but it's not really a valid result because I only did one run each on Vantage. GPU score went up adn CPU score went down. But with benching theres a lot of fluctuations. I'm not sure it helped in terms of performance.

 

Not convinced. Sorry. It wasn't just your blatant disregard for the entire table--using only the maximum fan speed reading--but also the fact that there's a pantheon of articles and outrage against the G92 design as a whole, and its intolerance for thermal cycling.

As an M1730 user, who knew those cards had bad solder-jobs, I will say that the issue was inherent in all G92 cores!

I don't care if it is even 1 degree. The greater the thermal cycle, the greater the risk.

When I got my second M1730, I installed an X9000. I ran the CPU overclocked to get all system fans to run at maximum.

In the past 6 of my cards died just from peaking at 75. With the X9000 solution, my readings do not exceed the 70 mark, and the cards have yet to die on this old system. That's how much of an influence 5 degrees can have on the destructive impact of thermal cycling.

All 260s and 280s are still G92. Sure, G92b, but G92 no less. Some of you can take the gamble, but I won't.

Besides, this isn't just an issue of maximum fan, but also minimum fan, medium fan, and cut-off point. Now the cut-off point is somewhere in the upper 40s, before it was 39. Yeah, some people could say 65-69 is no big deal, and in passing, it doesn sound like nothing, but have they considered the entire table? Because the bloody thing is wrong all over.

If reducing or changing fan speeds was a means to 'fix' the problem, then I am not impressed.

Besides, I just reverted back to A02, and at least powermizer's acting normally, and the fans are generally more active at even lower-temps, which is a good sign for someone who has had very back experience with Nvidia cards.

 

The issue with the XPS series laptops was more to do with the defective G92 and the less effective cooling solution used.

IMO the M17x provides a much more effective cooling, and thus the over all temps in this laptop are much lower.

So I agree a few degree higher temps will not likely have eny effects.

And if by chance they do then Dell will have to address it.

But IMO there are more postives from A03 then negatives, but to each there own.

 

By saying it had more to do with 'defective G92' you have already admitted the second half of the problem. To prevent the defect from being exposed, you need a thermal cycle that isn't so high and wide. So Dell did not provide an effective cooling solution for that particular setup. This is how computers are designed, with protocol and tables designed to accommodate particular types of parts.

I implore people to actually go out there and read up on the issue with G92.

M17x is cooler. No doubt. Does that guarantee that your GPU cores will not go bust, even if they're pushed a bit too far? OKay, perhaps not. I think most people are now caught up in the refresh hype to really consider some critical points. Hell, if GPUs do start dying, I won't do the whole 'I told you so'.

Now what about this powermizer issue. You think that is good? One of your cards is downclocking while the other is not downclocking. I'd say that is quite a serious red flag. There are people complaining that the BIOS is not doing enough. Forget that! I just want my powermizer to work the way it is meant to work. And yes, now I can confirm that the downclocking is not happening with A02, either. Lovely.

This BIOS is so the fix! Hell, we don't even need powermizer or fans because M17x is actually made of ICE!

 

Whatever though, if it performs ok and you've got a few years of warranty - You'll get upgraded when it breaks down - simple as that. I'm going to hold on to my m17x (Resale value has officially taken a nose dive as of today anyway) and maybe in a year's time when the thing stops working they'll upgrade to the new version

I think a few degrees is OK also, they DID fix the soldering problems.

 

Not interested in upgrade.

Nick, please, give me a citation regarding the solder fix.

Also, your situation is different. ATI. I don't believe you use powermizer. Forget the few degrees, because I don't really think we are at the point where I care what anyone thinks about a few degrees, and vice versa. Right to opinion, politely rejected but mutually and fully respected.

Now I will wait for someone to post something concrete on the query of why powermizer is not working properly after we revert back to A02.

 

didn't say it was perfect, just better based on my results with my config.

From what I read here there are mixed results, but still indicates there are some issues.

But I still think that present owners of M17x laptops should press Dell to replace them with a I7 M17x which should not have these issues. and in the end this maybe the only real pernament solution

 

Nvidia’s product change notification released in late June reads that the company intends to change high-Pb bump material to eutectic solder on its G92 graphics chips as well as graphics boards based on the G92. The aforementioned graphics processor powers loads of GeForce 8800-series as well as GeForce 9800-series graphics boards, which are very popular among gamers and computer enthusiasts. It is interesting to note that both 65nm as well as 55nm versions of G92b are affected.

I was wrong, it's affecting G92b. Cool? edit, this article was from 2008, it was indicating that nvidia intends to change. Not sure if they did or not but, anyway, warranty!

And I agree - If I'm feeling cheeky, I'll wait a few months and call in to dell and demand an i7 upgrade because of various issues. I've already had a system replacement once.. the techs don't care and I'm sure I can convince them to upgrade me.

You can bet your britches i'm going to max overclock this machine (possibly even the GPU's via flashing) and hope it cooks itself to the ground. I've got 995 days left on my warranty !!

Kade my only big point here is that why don't you do the same if you still have a warranty. If it dies then you'll get replaced so why the unneccesary stress? I dont think anyones arguing anyway.

Personally my big concern is if they're going to give up on supporting the Core2XXXX users with future Bios Updates and driver releases. I wonder what their strategy is going to be with regards to ongoing driver/BIOS development for the A00 M17x . I hope they won't ditch us completely for the A01 M17x.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Man, that is so sad that I am officially bleeding madness.

Okay, seriously. Dude, I really don't want it to die. You might have a hard time believing that, but I am serious. I want one machine that'll stay. A machine that I can understand and exploit, with full knowledge of how far I can push its hardware. But that's crap, right? Because I think you already know that Dellienware will abandon proper support for these models. I guess. . . replacement it is then, which is my primary concern.

You are right about warranty factor. Why not use it to my advantage? But you can't deny the fact that warranty can usually be a hit or miss thing with getting replacements. I am hoping that since we're all Alienware owners now, we won't fall in the technical mishap of 'Well, your machine is officially Dell, not Alienware'. Based on past stories, patterns, and history there has been grief with getting an appropriate replacement for people. Maybe not for you, but certainly for others. It's a 'potential' headache in its own right.

 

Has anyone else been having an issue with only 1 card downclocking with A03? No matter what drivers I use, 1 card always stays at max clocks. Any help on a solution would be appreciated!

 

Yes. We're all having these problems.

I believe a driver will be released to help fix the problem.

 

What kind of cpu you got in the m17x Kade? Also what are you doing with the X9k?

 

From what I've read you reverted to A02 and your cards are not downclocking properly, same with me here, i had a Cosmio x305 and stayed traumatized for life about heat issues so the cooler the laptop can run the better, i was fine until A03, is there any way we can tweak this and get it back to the way it was before updating to A03 or we have to wait for a fix?

 

I didn't post this in the lounge, did I?

Well, I currently have a T9550 with the laptop, but this is just a temporary plaything for my use. I already have watch on an OEM X9100 and looking out for some QX9300s.

However, the T9550 is more or less doing the job of handling all my gaming requirements. Plus, with all this hoobla-hype about i7 and potential replacements, I am starting to wonder whether it is worth the effort, getting another CPU.

Also, my system came with some funky bios settings out of the box, brand new. Apparently, the RAM was already clocked at 1333. Is this normal? I can overclock up to 3.2 GHz with some stability, although whenever I do overclock, the logon screen tends to act funny with delays and what not else.

As for the X9000. I removed that from the XPS, but I am going to hang on to both for a bit longer. It was a great CPU. Never failed, even once, running at full 3.4 GHz.

Scrutinity,
After initially reverting back to A02, the powermizer function was working. I ran a session of Crysis and then exited - clocks reset as they normally should with powermizer. However, at the moment, only one GPUs clock is resetting. I am assuming it's become a hit or miss kind of thing for us until this driver comes out.

As of right now, I don't think there is any viable tweak to get the laptop's powermizer to work the way it did before the A03 update. We'll just have to wait for the fix. I guess, you'll just have to play it cool. Try not to worry about it, if possible.

 

What do you think the chances are of me getting an upgrade to the I7 Board and processor from my C2Q Q9000?

I haven't dealt with Alienware/Dell on the regards of upgrades, I understand it will most likely cost me an arm, leg AND my first born but i may enquire as i believe that Dell will sometime soon retire updates for our current setups.

SO annoyed about that, as it was announced about 2 days after my 21 day grace period expired.

That said i haven't had nearly as many problems as alot of you on here, stuttering etc appears to be very minimal and far between. (albeit annoying considering how much this cost.)

Should i just count myself lucky and leave it as is ?

 

Update on this: I had to change my rivatuner settings because one of my gpu clocks would never change from 300mhz. I noticed this while playing crysis on high settings, the game just didn't play well with high shaders. The setting I changed was to not force hardware overclocking, and I also reset my 3d settings to adaptive. I still get red spikes, and I still hear stuttering though.

 

Deathcore, count yourself lucky and be happy.

It's still a good machine. And hell, if something goes wrong, they will have to give you an equal or better replacement.

 

Thats what I've been doing, I suppose greed was getting the better of me.

On another note i have a close friend who also has an M17x (Same setup as mine except with SLi 260GTXs) Who's motherboard died due to "several dry joints around the primary GFX card" after a phone call to Dell, What worried me about that was that they diagnosed a fault like that on the phone in under 10 minutes making me think it could be a common fault,

As i was saying, He is currently awaiting his 3rd motherboard, as the replacement arrived DOA (Functioning but no AlienFX).

The 1st board - A02 -> A03 - Same as mine, Minimal stuttering.
The 2nd board - A02 -> A03 - Horrific stuttering hardly able to enjoy music

Now awaiting the 3rd board which will be arriving next week some time.
I find it rather strange as that looks like a hardware issue.

Just thought I'd throw a spanner in the works.

 

FOR DOWNCLOCKING ISSUES ON A03 BIOS

just use the 195.81 nvidia driver. both gpus downclock with me! it seems the 195.xx drivers have an other way of downclocking which cant be control from bios or whatever. just try this driver. both gpus downclock for me on A03 bios.
remember to completely remove previous driver (driversweeper etc).


regarding previous post: i am sure its hardware problem. and specifically the discharging of the gpus.

 

I was under the impression that it was a GPU fault rather then a board fault as if it was to do with power to the GPUs for example due to cheap smoothing cap etc etc, i would have thought that the ATI range would have inherited some sort of fault also.

 

I have considered doing this, but I have one small issue. I really hate the 190.xx drivers.

In order to avoid an argument, let's just say that they don't do it for me. I prefer to use older 180 series drivers with Nhancer. I have a bunch of very demanding games and the SLi profiles run fine.

I assume none of the other 186 drivers will work, either. Eh?

 

Mine hadn't changed from my post in the driver thread, GPUs are down-clocking under A03 just like they did for A02. Both up-clock and down-clock together.
Screen is post MW2 play.

 

186.82 downclock the cards fine with A03

 

. . .you know, you guys might have a point.

Anyway, I am going to give it a shot. But, I am still not moving to A03 until all issues are final and we have a solid word on this new GPU driver that might be coming out for Nvidia users using the A03 bios.

Also, I would prefer that the fans work according to the thermal tables of the A02. That might be me nitpicking, but it would be nice.

 

I'm downclocking just fine on 182.67, which is also pretty much the best performing driver I've used. True, it did not downclock on the M1730 at all, but it does seem to be properly clocking on the M17x when viewing with EVGA. One of the cards is about 5 degrees warmer, but that I think is due to the case design and one card position being a little more susceptible to heat. The clocks both read the same.

 

the cards have an identical cooling situation....they is no difference between the cards cooling wise, if one is hotter, it is due to the GPU being more active

 

It would be nice if we could just turn the fans to maximum all the time in the BIOS. Give us choices to manually adjust the fan speeds and when which speed kicks in.

 

Clevos have that option

 

No way!

And here one of my subtle reasons for leaning in favour of a Dell machine was due to the greater bios control.

 

With clevos it is just fn+ f2 I believe

 

does anyone else get video stutter when playing a game and having the internet open? I was downloading a large file while playing GRID and noticed a lot of stuttering.

 

I get that when copying or doing something that occupies my hard drive too, I find its just the game taking longer to load 'cause most games like to texture stream now days.

 

Man, texture streaming sucks.

With the amount of VRAM and RAM we have, I suggest that everyone should disable texture streaming where possible.

I've done so with Crysis, and my performance became more stable. In fact, I'll be releasing a particular Crysis custom config, which should look almost as good as very high, but run faster on 280s. Of course, performance will be stellar with a mild overclock of the cards, but even at stock, it should work nicely.

 

yeah i still had shutter problem when i play audio + gaming.. this sucks

 

My M17x is ok now with the new BIOS A03, but I done this before flashing it so i dont know if it could help :

9.) Install the WIFI Driver Install the Driver from Dell/Alienware’s M17X site (there is a conflict with the old driver and the driver supplied by windows that causes a huge amount of DPC Latency)
10.) Open the Device Manager, then click the plus sign next to Batteries
11.) Disable the “Microsoft ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery” this driver has a known issue in Windows Vista and Windows 7 that causes huge DPC Latency Spikes ever 15 seconds or so. Microsoft is in the processing of rewriting this driver to eliminate this problem.

13.) Go to Regedit (This is for “CPU Parking” Issue in Windows 7)
a.) Find this key:- " 0cc5b647-c1df-4637-891a-dec35c318583 "
b.) Within this key, there is a value called: " ValueMax "
(This value represents the % number of cores the system will park - the default 100% ie: all Cores are potentially park-able )

c.) Change the value from 64 to 0 so the " ValueMin " and " ValueMax " are both zero
(You will have to find the key a few times and repeat the process for each time it is found - the number of instances will depend on the number of power profiles in your system)
d.) Do a full shutdown and power-off and cold-re-start
14.) Go to the Control Panel and change the Power Power Plan to High Performance

 

Thats exactly what i did with Crysis, Inital loading time is a bit longer but MUCH better in game, i've disabled it on pretty much every game i can and it's given me nothing but smoother gameplay.

 

Smart choice, amigo.

You have the hardware, and you took full advantage of its perks! Well done!

 

I've done this and haven't had a single stutter. Mine didn't stutter that much before but now it's zero stuttering unless I try and make it stutter like ejecting a disk while playing a video.

 

A03 installed. Nothing resolved. See my links in the other topic. I'm not certain I want to set the cores to undockable as a resolution.

 

does it increase any temps ?

 

has anyone noticed any huge spikes when using MSN messenger? I thought everything was great until I opened this program. Experienced a 65k spike every 15 sec or so for the duration of while it was running.

 

I was told by Dell support they have a registry workaround and that the new MS ACPI driver will completely fix the problem.

We''ll see. 930+ days of on-site warranty left so I feel safe.

 

Lewdvig,

Did they give you a guestimated ETA or any insite into what the registry change is?

- Denver

 

Is DPC latency the actual issue here? My DPC latency is extremely low after the BIOS flash. I still stutter in Dirt 2 when I have the GFX settings jacked up too high. It's both a graphical and audio stutter.

 

TurbodTalon,

Actually it is still a latency issue. Apparently the update fully addressed it for most ATI-based system users. Those of us who have an nVidia SLI solution (280s have it the worst) are still experiencing it.

- Denver

 

so they still believe the ms acpi causes the red spikes with nvidia gpus downclocking? this is my only problem.

you ve done all those and then flashed bios?

 

Still getting stuttering during some levels of GRID like shibuya...

 

but less ? i personally havent noticed any stuttering in grid, are u doing anything else in the background ?

 

Yes, I tried every thing before flashing the bios and the latency was still there, so I flashed at A03 and now the computer is more responsive and the latency is almost always under 400 ms