M17x Refresh Discussion

This thread is dedicated to talking about a M17x refresh (both current and future).

AW recently released a tiny refresh to include 4870's, and to our dismay, it's been confirmed that they are GDDR3.
Very disappointing news, though it's safe to say that there is more of a refresh is still in the works, considering mostly all laptops are making the move to i7.

I'll be categorizing the following section into 3 groups:



Hold On To

Design Style
The new design/look of the Alienware brand. I think most of us would agree it's headed in a direction that I think defines what Alienware is, very well. Technologically advanced, futuristic, cutting edge..power. Adjustments can be made, to each his own, but the direction is very promising.

AlienFX
We're gamers..we like things to look awesome. Course for those who would think its more of a distraction, they can always keep it off.

Integrated graphics processor(IGP)
This might be a problem considering the i7 procs, and it probably wouldn't be a great idea if heat will become an issue, but the option to have a much longer battery life(under minimal use) is a very important feature to have.

Dual GPU's
Power

Dual hard drive bays
Power needs storage



Change/Add

i7 Quad Processor (of course)
But I'm one to want the 2nd gen of mobile i7, 32nm(Quad).

RGBLED screen/OLED screen
The WLED screen in the M15x is a much better improvement than the CCFL displays before, but an RGBLED (or OLED) screen would be a far more significant improvement. Many underestimate the importance of a good display for gamers. Crisp visual fidelity is a must (would also expand AWs demographic beyond just gamers: people who just want an exceptional product). This technology is already present in Dell's Studio line, why not Alienware? the supposed best of the best; to hold the "premium" title, you need a premium product.

120Hz (or higher) refresh rate
All LCD manufacturers are making the move to at least 120Hz (let alone 240). We being gamers, it matters to us the most, this would be a necessity not just for us, but for a constantly evolving industry.

ATI 5870/Nvidia GT300 series (depending how the GT300's fair against ATI)
This would be an essential upgrade, you could even say mandatory. The mobile gaming industry has been hovering around 280s/4870s for a while, I think we can agree that it's a good time for an upgrade; Considering both ATI & Nvidia have unveiled their next-gen tech, "cypress" & "fermi".

Noise Dampening
No doubt the M17x/15x has one of the best cooling designs seen in a laptop thus far, but there have been claims that they can get quite loud. A noise dampening feature might be well received.

Multimedia Control
Many complaints of past touch panels being unresponsive, a fix for this would definitely be a an improvement.

Stuttering Issues
I n the past, the M17 had serious stuttering issues which many had to struggle with. Some thought a problem like that wouldn't be overlooked again..though when the M17x came out, there were signs of the same issue; some resolved it with firmware, some haven't. We can only hope this would not be a problem again, or Alienware would beging to carry the name of being a very temperamental/undependable product.

Storage (SSD/HDD)
There was a significant number of people wanting to use an SSD+HDD combo, but were unable to do so through Dell and had to order the extra drive from another source. Not a big issue, but I would imagine it'd help sales.

-- Debatable Features --

Light Peak / USB 3.0
There hasn't been a USB refresh since 2000, 3.0 would be a welcome change. Then again, Intel is developing its own Light Peak technology and has potential to become the new standard at those speeds/functionality (blowing away even 3.0). Will Alienware include either in their future releases?

Anodized aluminum chassis vs anodized magnesium
The M15x sports an anodized magnesium chassis, its predecessor, the M17x uses anodized aluminum. While magnesium is lighter, and cheaper to manufacture, the quality difference is very debatable. I am not sure as to which would be best, but Id imagine I'd want the stronger/better cooled material.

Fingerprint Scanner
I personally am known to have a strong desire for a fingerprint scanner.. and after I understood that AlienSense isn't exactly reliable, it would be a well received security addition. Maybe it can work alongside an OLED touchpad? See Below.

Laser Engraved Artwork (for customization)
Let customers have some customization options for their Alienware to make it feel more unique, give them the option to embed their personalities. (similar to the offerings of the Studio line)

Beyond
This section is to enter any type of reasonable, but..different feature you'd want to see in an AW laptop.

OLED Touchpad
An OLED Touchpad that can act both as a touchpad, and as a primary feature, an interactive screen (potentially also a fingerprint scanner). Running passive apps/widgets (color palette, game use, etc.. as 3vilGenius points out) while still integrated with the main screen, flicking content to full size (as the Intel prototype here does).
This would definitely add to Alienware's cutting edge style.


Feel free to change/add more/debate, or discuss the tiny refresh of the current M17x.

 

I really want to know how the 4870's fair against the 280m's

 

Me too!

The Swedish Dell website hasn't updated with the new machines yet.

 

Ask me again next Summer.

 

It all depends whether it's GDDR5 or not.

If the cards are using GDDR3 tech, the difference won't be noticeable, the 280's would actually have a chance at being slightly better(considering its a Nvidia mobo).. it could honestly go either way.

That's why certain members are trying vigorously to find out this information :]

 

What's the core clock on the 4870 XTs? Even if they're still GDDR3, they could push 13-14k GPU score if we're talking 700+ core speed (with overclocking). Of course, driver support always seems to be the bane of Ati cards...

 

yea, but its not just a driver. We would need a driver that would be optimized for the Nvidia motherboard that comes with the M17x, and I don't really see that happening.

 

Ah glad someone i still posting good stuff. I was actually going to wait untill windows 7 and usb 3.0 came out to buy my m17x but if you look @ my sig you can see i failed miserably.

 

The mobo has nothing to do with the GPU driver itself.

Not sure what your referring to. Hybrid?

 

Really?

I assumed they wouldn't exactly..play nice

 

Well, Dell will most likely release a special driver, but someone will eventually figure out how to install more current ATI drivers

 

Tell me about it...

lol at Dell's comment that selecting the HD4870 "May delay your Alienware M17x ship date." We shall see exactly how long this "delay" ends up being...

 

Well right, you'd need a special driver to be able to swap between the integrated and the ATI on the fly. Having nVidia drivers and ATI drivers on the same machine and swapping between them on the fly is going to be a challenge don't you think?

 

We still have no proof that the QX9300 is slower than the I7 X920M.

Advantage of QX9300, higher base clock speed.

Advantage of I7, auto OC to 3.2ghz.

I'd love to see a real comparison for gaming...


Now concerning the LED screen. I believe everyone was shocked the M17X did not launch with it. It was an absolute mistake from my point of view. Even a stupid studio xps has the RGBLED screen option available.

 

it would have been nice if they made the RGBLED screen option available. This machine is being marketed as "high end" after all.

 

Well the Studio XPS is designed to undertake photoshop work and video editing, which the RBGLED is very, very well suited for.

But yes I (as with most people on this board) agree that the M17x should've had an exceptional screen, as opposed to a mediocre, passing-level one. White LED is a step in the right direction, but for the visual fidelity gamers want, and the price we pay to attain such a feat, RGB LED is a must.

 

Posted reviews of the i7 mobile in the M15x owner's lounge. Somewhere around post #750.

 

for crossfire to work on the MCP79 you need a special BIOS, not a special driver

And just like with nvidia cards, to switch between discrete and integrated you will need to reboot.....

 

Why would Alienware be the ones to push USB 3.0? Anyone can do it.

 

I read all of those, and was actually surprised/pleased by the performance of the i7, even at its clocks.

Here are a few of the reviews:

Laptop Mag's Core i7 Review - [Click Me]

LegitReviews' Core i7 Review - [Click Me]

HotHardware's Core i7 Review - [Click Me]

 

the problem with USB 3.0 is that it is not built into intel's southbridge yet, so you wont see much of it

at this point it would require a dedicated controller which would drive up costs (for something that very few would use)

USB 3.0 is not going to be that special.....we dont even max out USB 2.0 (kind of like the SATA drives, higher cap is great and all but drives dont come near that - unless large arrays of SSDs so far)

 

Alienware is branded as cutting edge tech, and for the price consumers pay, I believe its deserved to have such, no?

I wasn't aware Intel didn't support it yet, and yes I agree that not many find USB 3.0 a big deal, I just thought it would be a welcome addition

 

Yeah, so my earlier train of thought was, why do we even need USB 3.0 right now?

I wouldn't mind seeing stronger processors but I don't like the idea of the i7's, or whatever they're called. I prefer a processor to have a constant speed, not having to have the gas pedal pressed down to really power up. To me it feels like marketed overclocking.

edit: What's so cutting edge about having something one cannot use? That's like 8GB of RAM.

 

again, the issue is that intel has not adopted it yet into it's chipsets

same as sata 3.0

 

turbo mode is more for getting better performance in single or dual threaded applications (which most applications are still). When only one or two cores is being used it can ramp up speed to boost performance for that app. This could actually help gaming alot since 2 cores seems to be enough for most current games

 

Well we'll start seeing USB 3.0 devices start popping up quite soon, better to be prepared to make use of their advantages.

But I see that this is a debatable issue, so I'll create a new section for such features and insert it in there.

EDIT: was also reminded about noise levels, and added a type of dampening solution in the newly added "debatable" section

 

Yea I actually find turbo mode to be a very significant feature. This way the quad cores are much more on par with the dual cores in terms of handling singe/dual threaded apps; which as you said, are basically still the majority out there.

 

it also tells me that the silicon is comfortable at those speeds, which can mean overclocking the whole cpu that far hopefully

 

Yea, so we know they can OC to 3.2Ghz.. but if you OC all 4 to that speed, wouldn't the laptop not be able to handle the heat/power consumption?

 

Since that double green nvidia icon that lets you choose between integrated or discrete graphics (save power of boost performance) only appears *after* installing *nvidia* graphics drivers, I don't really see how this could work.

I mean, im sure it does or they wouldn't be selling it... that or the integrated graphics are disabled when you choose ati gpu.

 

I already posted this question in the Allpowerful Landfall thead, but thought it would be better to post it here, so sorry....
Soley out of curiosity, does anybody know off hand if existing M17X owners can somehow upgrade to the new 4870 cards? either by sending the laptop in or just getting the cards mailed to you? would it even be expensive/easy/worth it lol?
If I have the 280s already would I pay less for the upgrade? I'm asking because I know some M17 owners upgraded their systems to the 4830 and was just wondering what the experience/process was.

I'm not one of those kinda guys that has to get the latest and greatest all the time, but man GDDR5 in my baby....... wow

 

Dude, I already kinda answered your question.

1. It might be a while (if ever) that Dell will sell the cards to non-ATI system owners

2. If they do, they will send the cards to you for you to install

3. Expect to pay $800 or more per card. You are not going to get any kind of discount.

 

Sorry Im no good at this forum stuff at all lol.
Thank you for the help!

 

Updated the first post about DDR5

and tim why not call in and inquire about it? not sure if they're holding out on upgrades like they did for the M17

 

the configure section of the m17x says that the ati cards are GDDR 5 so... unless Dell is false advertising, that means the ati cards are better than the 280's, right?

 

If i would drop my m17x after the updates have arrived, They would have to give me a new system and then they might put usb 3.0 on it no? I know thats 3vil

 

They're not going to change the entire architecture of the M17x to put USB 3.0 in it.
If you REEEAAALLLYYYY want USB 3.0 get an ExpressCard

 

Actually last i checked we DO.

The problem with USB 2.0 is that it is rated at 480Mbps [Megabits per second] burst. In reality what that means is up to 60MBps [Megabytes per second] theoretical burst, but once you've gone back to sustained transfer, rather than burst, and thrown in overheads, the maximum transfer rate is actually far lower; around the 30-40MBps sustained mark.

A lot of decent HDDs in external enclosures could push higher read speeds than that with a better interface, couple this with the slowly increasing extend of SSD, USB capable RAID NAS and larger external HDD drives and other recording media, and...well USB 2.0 is already a bottleneck, if they'd rated it to 480MBps burst, or 480Mbps sustained, then it wouldnt have been hitting us already, but unfortunately it is.

Unfortunately, til 3.0 takes off on machines, we're not likely to see many devices using it either.

 

why you want usb 3.0 so bad if you already have a esata connector on m17x just get an adapter

 

I'm afraid an adapter would change nothing of the speeds, just make it compatible.

Yes, they even have a graph up stating that the 4870's outperform the 280's...if I can find it I'll post it

 

Right here dude:



Never mind that they spelled "performed" without an "m," it's not a very significant graph without numbers.

 

Ive read in a few reviews that 260m vs 260m sli is only about 40% increase in performance in that graph its more then double which seems flawed. Yeah without numbers that means nothing. Lol what it really shows is the price comparison

 

Why wouldn't they include the single 4870? Thats the one we all want to know!

 

actually the graph shows the 260 SLI close to the 280 SLI, from a visual perspective, looks somewhat accurate.

the 280 is more than 2x the performance of a SINGLE 260..which is what the graph also shows :]

But yea I agree, numbers would definately help

 

Another thing I think will delay the i7 release much longer then january would be the fact that the intel chipset for i7 doesn't have onboard GPU. Without that and the addition of power hungry i7 wouldn't that make the battery life extremely poor?

 

I think those numbers in the graph are 7k for the 260m, 10700 for the 260M SLI, 11200 for the 280SLI, and nearly 13k for the 4870 Crossfire.

 

well I don't run my system on batteries, so that would be a non-issue for me....

 

Yup

I was actually one of the ones that said the QX9300 would surpass the i7 in performance..but I've come to doubt that, as benchmarks show the i7 surpasses the QX9300 @ stock. We still have to wait for the OC results.

I also didn't know that Core2Quads werent true quad cores, a.k.a. 2 dual cores put together. Since the i7 is 4 cores on one die, there would be no issue of stuttering that was experienced with the M17x; Not to mention architecturally improved, better/faster communication with the memory/chipset/etc

So I've come to believe that an i7, even the first gen clarksfield, would be more of a significant upgrade than previously realized.


Though I have been reading that the QPI in previous Nehalem architecure was replaced with the slower DMI? if thats so..why? It had something to do with the northbridge becoming obsolete in the new design..I have yet to fully understand this.

 

Scytus, you have 666 posts. Quick! change your M17x colors to red!

 

Yeah....I was kinda disappointed to learn my quad was not a true quad CPU.

I'm probably going to buy a refreshed M17x next year when I return to the USA. I'm sure it will by then have the i7, and later gen GPUs....