The Notebook Review forums were hosted by TechTarget, who shut down them down on January 31, 2022. This static read-only archive was pulled by NBR forum users between January 20 and January 31, 2022, in an effort to make sure that the valuable technical information that had been posted on the forums is preserved. For current discussions, many NBR forum users moved over to NotebookTalk.net after the shutdown.
Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
← Previous pageNext page →

    M17x Refresh Discussion

    Discussion in 'Alienware' started by Scytus, Sep 23, 2009.

  1. Brock_Sampson

    Brock_Sampson Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Has there been any definite confirmation on this and when? I'm asking because I'm probably ordering a M17x on Dec. 1st and am wondering if I shouldn't just hold out till Jan.
     
  2. Aikimox

    Aikimox Weihenstephaner!

    Reputations:
    5,955
    Messages:
    10,196
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    466
    There will be some definite info Dec-Jan, so wait a little bit.
     
  3. Idmpc

    Idmpc Notebook Guru

    Reputations:
    9
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Well, check this out, now it's been CONFIRMED that ATI will INDEED launch new DirectX 11 MOBILE GPUs on Q1 2010. After they launch, how long do you guys think it would take for alienware to put them on a new 17" CROSSFIRE notebook?

    Here's the story:
    Story by "Fudzilla", here's the link to the source:
    http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/16404/1/
     
  4. cookinwitdiesel

    cookinwitdiesel Retired Bencher

    Reputations:
    4,365
    Messages:
    11,264
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    501
    That does not mean it will be the top performing parts though, they may jsut be getting the mainstream stuff out quickly to say they did it before nvidia.

    I would guess that mobility 5870 will take longer than that, but I am willing to be pleasantly surprised :)
     
  5. Idmpc

    Idmpc Notebook Guru

    Reputations:
    9
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Well, since buying an Alienware where I'm from (Brazil) costs almost twice what it costs for US customers, I really wanted to get the M17X like, today, but then I wouldn't be able to buy the DX11 models when they come out, so I'm really hoping that ATI launches those mobile 5870's and alienware picks them up really quickly, so I can finally buy my alienware notebook =D
     
  6. cookinwitdiesel

    cookinwitdiesel Retired Bencher

    Reputations:
    4,365
    Messages:
    11,264
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    501
    if you play the waiting for the next big thing game, you will NEVER buy a notebook

    trust me on that

    So just order it and try to upgrade when the cards come out
     
  7. desu

    desu Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    139
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    but if you don't play the waiting game and get it now. you also risk not having a compatible motherboard and you wouldn't be able to upgrade

    I do agree that you should never play the wait for the next big thing game.
    On a side note Ati cards are mostly dx11 compliant now; I believe.
    If I had the money now i would definately buy an m17x with ati card and if it end up that you can't upgrade the card at least you have a mostly compliant dx 11 card
     
  8. hankaaron57

    hankaaron57 Go BIG or go HOME

    Reputations:
    534
    Messages:
    1,642
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Yeah, you could just do what I'd plan to do and just magically have motherboard problems right around the time the new one comes out and get it replaced with the next-gen one.
     
  9. Brock_Sampson

    Brock_Sampson Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Unless I'm mistaken, everthing I read about the current ATI cards for the M17x are only DX10.1 complient. The promises of the GDDR5 and DX11 cards were false and won't drop until next year.
     
  10. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla The eye is watching you

    Reputations:
    7,074
    Messages:
    8,376
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    216
    Until some massive die shrinks happen i dont plan on seeing any of that high end stuff for quite some time.. The low end parts will certainly make it into machines but a dual card 5870DDR5 laptop i think is still quite aways off...

    From what has been said about even putting DDR5 on the 4870s in the M17x and all the issues that came from it that does not bode well for the time being of seeing even higher end cards making it into the mobile machines...

    Many months have passed since Asus brought out there 4870/4850s with DDR3 and i would have thought and hoped something would have changed by now to make DDR5 more feasible in a laptop but apparently that was not the case...
     
  11. Scytus

    Scytus Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    127
    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Don't forget to consider the mobile nvidia cards that we've been seeing signs of, then again I think those were mainstream models as well..
     
  12. Aristotelhs2060

    Aristotelhs2060 Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    577
    Messages:
    3,193
    Likes Received:
    280
    Trophy Points:
    151
    just to add something here. ddr5 gpus are proved to have lower syncronization times in relation to ddr3 gpus so dont be paranoid.
     
  13. desu

    desu Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    139
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30

    directx 11 has only two components that need new hardwired pathways on gpu's. tesselation and compute shader everything else doesn't require new hardwired pathways . multi threaded rendering applies to the processor not the gpu. everything else just seem to be software that will work on dx 10 cards. ati cards from 2000 series up have tesselation. when you look at it that way m17x ati laptops are MOSTLY dx11 compliant.

    @Aristotelhs2060 Could you elaborate what you mean?
     
  14. Aristotelhs2060

    Aristotelhs2060 Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    577
    Messages:
    3,193
    Likes Received:
    280
    Trophy Points:
    151
    just look the specificaitions of ddr5 desktop cards in relation with ddr3 ones. if ddr5 gpus will be added to notebooks which i personally doubt, i believe the same situation will happen there as well.
     
  15. Joebarchuck

    Joebarchuck Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    881
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Today I read that Arrandale is expected in January 2010. I wonder if that means we can expect the M17X to be updated with the core I7 in 32nm around that time.
     
  16. Scytus

    Scytus Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    127
    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    While those are 32nm, they are dual cores. Meaning the Arrandale line is aimed for mainstream use, a core i7 solution for thin & light notebooks.

    32nm quads are projected to be after the Arrandale launch
     
  17. cookinwitdiesel

    cookinwitdiesel Retired Bencher

    Reputations:
    4,365
    Messages:
    11,264
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    501
    Arrandale also will have a gimpy intel IGP on the chip with the cpu :(
     
  18. Generic User #2

    Generic User #2 Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    179
    Messages:
    846
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    i dunno....a hyperthreaded dual core sounds like a gamer's wet dream....just overclock the hell out of it. once you need to do some actual work on your comp, you'll have the extra two threads to fall back on(they're not as good a actual cores, but they're better than nothing).

    but ya, alienware probably won't do it, at least not until some 32nm quads come out.
     
  19. Joebarchuck

    Joebarchuck Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    881
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    so you guys think we won't see any i7 on the M17x before next June?
     
  20. cookinwitdiesel

    cookinwitdiesel Retired Bencher

    Reputations:
    4,365
    Messages:
    11,264
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    501
    nope

    Personally I would rather see better GPUs than i7 myself
     
  21. Scytus

    Scytus Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    127
    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    I'd rather see both core i7 AND dx11 cards xD ..I'm greedy

    Well the M17x will most likely support i7, the only thing I'm wondering is if they'll upgrade it to clarksfield, or wait till the 32nm quads to do a revision.

    ...or come out with a different 17" model all together
     
  22. desu

    desu Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    139
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    better gpus would be good though i would like to have a better cooling solution what would be the viability of a water cooling solution be?
     
  23. Scytus

    Scytus Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    127
    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    I have given that a bit of thought, but it occurred to me early that it would make the laptop much heavier than it already is (while these are already around the heaviest on the market) it wouldn't be very viable from a mobile perspective.

    Not to mention lugging around a water-cooled device, it having to go through a lot of movement/shifting might have some bad reprocusions on the cooling system inside, damaging your other hardware.

    Laptops would probably need to stay air cooled, they'd just have to rely on good design for a cooled, noise damped system. (rather than hot and loud)
     
  24. -=$tR|k3r=-

    -=$tR|k3r=- Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    4,340
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    698
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Me too!

    ...... and this may not be too far off (available soon in Germany):

    Acer Aspire 8942G-724G128Wi

    and

    Acer Aspire 8942G-728G1280TWn

    Only stands to reason that other manufacturers will soon follow suit, right?

    One can only hope! (patiently waiting & watching.....)

    :D :D :D
     
  25. Joebarchuck

    Joebarchuck Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    881
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Those Acer PCs seem like a nice find but I am always for Alienware. Nonetheless I hope they will react quickly and also propose the cross-fire 5870 and the i7 within the next 3 months.
     
  26. -=$tR|k3r=-

    -=$tR|k3r=- Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    4,340
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    698
    Trophy Points:
    181
    [smile]

    ..... and that was precisely my point!

    :D
     
  27. Rengsey R. H. Jr.

    Rengsey R. H. Jr. I Never Slept

    Reputations:
    1,084
    Messages:
    2,771
    Likes Received:
    1,020
    Trophy Points:
    181
    It seems like the life of a Dual GPU laptop might be coming to an end.
     
  28. -=$tR|k3r=-

    -=$tR|k3r=- Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    4,340
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    698
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Give me a 5870 (or even a 5850) and an i7, and I'll be happy.....

    (for a little while, anyhow)

    :)
     
  29. Rengsey R. H. Jr.

    Rengsey R. H. Jr. I Never Slept

    Reputations:
    1,084
    Messages:
    2,771
    Likes Received:
    1,020
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Yah, same here too.. :)
     
  30. -=$tR|k3r=-

    -=$tR|k3r=- Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    4,340
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    698
    Trophy Points:
    181
    ..... and I think it will be soon, my friend!

    Again, one can only hope.....

    :)
     
  31. Joebarchuck

    Joebarchuck Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    881
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55


    No way!!!

    10char
     
  32. -=$tR|k3r=-

    -=$tR|k3r=- Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    4,340
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    698
    Trophy Points:
    181
    An interesting thought..... and plausable.

    :)
     
  33. Generic User #2

    Generic User #2 Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    179
    Messages:
    846
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    personally, i'm hoping alienware takes its sweet time upgrading the M17x lol.

    i need to get a new laptop asap, but i'm settling for the M15x cause i need the core i7.
     
  34. SagerMeister

    SagerMeister Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    41
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Let's not stop at water. How 'bout some liquid nitrogen? LN has roughly 80% the specific gravity of water, so some semblance of laptop portability is maintained! So what if your fingers get stuck to the keyboard...
     
  35. hankaaron57

    hankaaron57 Go BIG or go HOME

    Reputations:
    534
    Messages:
    1,642
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Just curious Sager, how long has your 7800 been working since the oven baking?
     
  36. desu

    desu Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    139
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    But would it really require vast amounts of liquid to keep it cool. Would 20 fl oz of liquid really increase weight that much and would it be enough to cool the laptop? What about combining liquid cooling and existing cooling solution in m17x. Like use the existing copper pipes to conduct the liquid and replace dvd-rom drive with reservoir only using small plastic pipes to conduct the liquid to the existing copper pipes. I'm really just thinking about augmenting the existing cooling solution to increase cooling.

    Sager liquid nitrogen sounds good to me as long i don't have to constantly refill it or it break my fingers off.
     
  37. Brock_Sampson

    Brock_Sampson Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    The problem with liquid cooling is that every so often (usually 1 to 2 years) you would need to change the coolant because it looses it's ability to transfer heat as well. And yes because you want your laptop portable all that moving around could easily cause a tube to come loose possibly soaking the motherboard while your using it and while it's on your lap. BZZZ!!!!! That's just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
     
  38. Kevin

    Kevin Egregious

    Reputations:
    3,289
    Messages:
    10,780
    Likes Received:
    1,773
    Trophy Points:
    581
    Man, why are they using GDDR3 on the mobile 5850?
     
  39. SagerMeister

    SagerMeister Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    41
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Hank, you look maaahvelous, lol!

    It's been about 2 weeks. I'm well aware that some who've tried the baking fix view this as a temporary solution only. I'm in that camp as well. It blew me away that baking the card worked.

    My main goal is to make my current system last long enough to bridge to purchase/delivery of an M17x.
     
  40. Alexrose1uk

    Alexrose1uk Music, Media, Game

    Reputations:
    616
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Probably cheaper. GDDR5 is still not exactly common, last I checked it wasnt being produced in massive quantities, and only by a few companies.

    Shame though BUT the card will probably still run every other single card out there into the ground, even with GDDR3.
     
  41. SagerMeister

    SagerMeister Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    41
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Not sure about the coolant amount question, but the weight question can be solved with a little bit of elementary math (let's see if I can remember back that far).

    The density of water is roughly 8.3 lbs/gal. 1 gal = 128 oz, therefore:

    8.3 lb/gal x 1 gal/ 128 oz x 20 oz = 1.3 lbs.

    So, not a ton of weight (what's another 1.3lbs when the M17x weighs in at 12 lbs?), but we'd also need some kind of heat exchanger to remove the heat from the circulating coolant. That would add more weight cuz I don't think a blowing fan would cut it as the sole heat-removing method.

    Like you, I'm not sure I'd want liquid rolling around inside my laptop as I move it from location to location. Too much bad stuff can happen there.
     
  42. AtolSammeek

    AtolSammeek Tokay Gecko

    Reputations:
    204
    Messages:
    1,588
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Add the Feature from the Old m15x/m17x. Smart Bay hard drive/battery. Yes I was about to buy a Smart bay Hard drive so I could have 1.5tb of hard drive space. Or the Basic of the m15x Extra Battery life. Great for backup and extra storage.
     
  43. Scytus

    Scytus Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    127
    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    why was that?


    I'd rather have a 5970's :]
     
  44. Generic User #2

    Generic User #2 Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    179
    Messages:
    846
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    why do people keep saying they want dual-gpu cards in their laptops?

    they might as well put two single-core cards in their lappy, it'll run better.

    unless they want two dual-gpu cards which is a little ridiculous. the chip designer might as well just release a SINGLE higher TDP chip that doesn't have to suffer from gpu-linking and micro-stuttering.

    it really makes no sense...
     
  45. -=$tR|k3r=-

    -=$tR|k3r=- Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    4,340
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    698
    Trophy Points:
    181
    I may be wrong here, but I think perhaps Rengsey R. H. Jr. was referring to 'DUAL' graphics cards, vice dual GPU....

    LOL! Well OF COURSE, but re-read what I wrote. ;)

    :D :D :D
     
  46. Krane

    Krane Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    706
    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    131
    This shouldn't even be a question.

    As for my perspective the most important refresh is the screen. Think about it, no matter how good all the other components are, they're meaningless unless you can see the final product. With that in mind, they need to start by offering the industry best portable laptop screen--even if it's an upgrade option.
     
  47. -=$tR|k3r=-

    -=$tR|k3r=- Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    4,340
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    698
    Trophy Points:
    181
    LOL! C'mon Kevin, I KNOW this doesn't surprise you.... I've grown accustomed to these little disappointments, haven't you?

    :D
     
  48. The_Moo™

    The_Moo™ Here we go again.....

    Reputations:
    3,973
    Messages:
    13,930
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    455
    yes i believe we all have
     
  49. desu

    desu Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    139
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    I agree and it would even be worth $150 or more but i don't think that the current 1920x1200 lcd is worth $150 what do others think?
     
  50. Aristotelhs2060

    Aristotelhs2060 Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    577
    Messages:
    3,193
    Likes Received:
    280
    Trophy Points:
    151
    can you please guys tell me why you want always the latest? except from dx11 support i dont believe their overall performance will be much better than current sli gtx280 or 4870s one. and we are speaking about laptop gpus and not desktop gpus which is more than important to consider. even the dx11 is a selling trick for me as well. i have played games on old dx9 and dx10 and honestly? i didnt see so much graphics difference to comment on. i am pretty sure the same will happen with dx11.

    i cant comment on i7 core on laptops and comparison with overclocked quad cores on laptops because i didnt find a well performed test until now. i7 cores may be a few better and thats all. i repeat overclocked quad cores.
     
← Previous pageNext page →