M17x and DPC Latency

ur like the 3rd person I see saying they showed Dell the stuttering, but how can you do that on the phone ?

 

They were remotely connected to my laptop, controlling and monitoring my screen. I had the DPC latency checker on, so they could see the spikes

 

ow right

 

Did they do any registry hacking on yours? One tech today told me they have some tricks to make the problem go away in win7 while they wait the new acpi driver.

 

yet they don't give them to us..

 

I tried all the workarounds available, they seem to know all the registry tweaks I had already tried but still no cure. They didn't try anything new. As I mentioned before they asked for one or two weeks leeway and that's all they gonna get.

 

Hello all,
I'll try to keep this as short as possible. I have been reading a lot of these forums since I bought my M17x (config in sig) and received it just over a week ago. I have been having all kinds of problems since the 2nd day I had it. At first I was getting blue screens just doing normal everyday tasks like browsing. Did an alienrespawn a couple times and a few driver and chipset updates as suggested on these forums. It finally came down to me talking to alienware tech support last night and doing a fresh Windows 7 install while the tech was on the phone. He installed all the drivers in their correct order and kept it at the A02 bios as well as disabling the integrated graphics. Everything looked good and the computer was running somewhat smooth other than some hanging while the tech was doing some installs. He saw first hand that the T9800 CPU I have was getting tasked harder than it should on easy tasks. Everything would just hang and after a minute or so it would finally catch up and go again.

Well, after the tech was all done the laptop seemed to work better other than the occasional hanging problem. That is until I started playing WoW...low fps and another blue screen. It took me a few tries to finally get it booted without crashing.

So, once I got back in I did a restore back to when the tech was done the night before. I then checked my DPC latency and sure enough it was spiking just while idling. So I called alienware tech support again and I was lucky enought to get the same guy. That made it easier because I didn't have to explain everything all over again. He installed the A03 bios and he also installed the latest chipset and video drivers from nVidias web site, versions 15.49 and 195.81_beta. That got rid of the DPC latency at least while idling and doing small tasks. But the CPUs were still tasked hard according to the tech. It happened again while he was downloading some drivers and installing them. I also gave WoW a try while he was still on the phone and the same thing...very low fps. But I must say no blue screen as of yet. I even showed him how bad it was in the game and also the DPC latency had continuous red spikes the whole time the game was running.

Due to the CPUs working hard on software installs and other simple tasks he thinks maybe some controllers on the motherboard might possibly be bad. He also said that they are very aware of numerous people having these kinds of problems and their R&D department is working daily on trying to figure out a good fix. Anywhere from a new bios to possibly new drivers of some type. He also said they know it seems to happen mostly with the GTX280m than any of the other ones. He couldn't say how soon a fix will come but they are constantly testing things out.

So I was told I have some options:
1. I could try and talk customer care into giving me the ATI video cards since I was in my 21 day customer satisfaction window. He said he was not allowed to do that for me himself. He also wasn't sure if that would fix it since he thinks the motherboard is not doing good.
2. I can have the motherboard replaced first and see if that fixes my problems. If not then maybe we can try the ATI cards.

But for now what he wants to do is wait until Tuesday to see if the R&D department comes up with some kind of fix. If they do then we will install whatever it is be it a bios or drivers. If nothing new is out by Tuesday, he will have a new motherboard sent to be installed. If that doesn't work we will go from there.

So there you have it...my sad story to go along with all the others on here. At least they know there is a problem and are trying to get it fixed.

 

Yeah, they are offering me a new mobo. I doubt that is the problem.

Mine was a xf 4870 system that got its cards recalled/replaced with 280m SLI. I'd like the ATIs back I think.

 

Welcome to the club buddy, hope we all find a solution soon

 

One thing I did try: I disabled SLI and WoW actually ran better with one video card than with both. Not what it should be but better. DPC latency was down except for the occasional spike every 15 secs, but good overall. But I didn't buy this setup to use only one video card so something needs to be fixed.

 

Some games do perform better WITHOUT sli, which is annoying since I bought the 2 cards to increase performance..

 

Mine to last night it did it twice in 3 hours so frikin anoying. Oh well getting a replacment and then selling it lol.

 

they did that to mine, i have had a new MB, both GPUS replaced, and sli cable, and my hard drive was bad. No improvment..

Opps sorry for double post

 

i have to ask again here because i didnt receive any answer.

does dell support believe that the acpi driver causes the red spikes when gpus downclock or overclock? is there any conflict between this driver and powermizer?

thus is the acpi driver responsible for red spikes when listening to music and browsing (downloading data in general) at the same time?


someone who contacts dell support please ask those things.


by the way sp1 (maybe new acpi driver) of win7 will be available in october 2010 if you want to wait until then. lool

 

The agents that we speak on the phone don't know what is exactly wrong with the system. I am quite sure that windows ACPI has something to do with the latency and it's not only Nvidia's fault. Dell's fault is that they didn't properly test the system beforehand, instead of proceeding and start selling this combination with windows 7, they should have sticked with ATI or Vista.

*EDIT*
The issue is more complicated in a way that drivers sit on top of the OS and the OS sits on top of the BIOS, so for a proper fix all three factors have to be properly "customized" and at least two out of the three participants (NV, Dell, MS) have to be flexible and make corrections, which two I don't know.

 

so did you try bios A03 on vista?

 

This may have been covered somewhere and I've missed it... If so, I appologize.

I've seen several references on this and the Dell forums to some registry tweak the Alienware techs are making to help address this issue. Unfortunately no one seems to have posted what they're tweaking!

Therefore, if someone has in fact had this done it may prove helpful to the rest of us to know as well.

Why they don't issue a knowledgebase article on this is beyond me. Why has this now become 'top secret'?

Any info is appreciated. Between this and the general wierdness of Win7 I'm about ready to go back to Vista.

- Denver

 

I'd like to know too, I've seen that around but no one here's posted it as far as I know.


I'm guessing they aren't releasing the info because they don't want more phone calls from people who've messed up their registry trying this.

 

Does anyone know of a way to prevent the 2nd Graphics card from underclocking, I've tried pretty much everything i can think of, Disabling Powermizer, nTune etc etc all make the primary run at the highests clock but the it doesn't seem to affect the secondary.

I'm running 186.64 as these are the best performers that i have tried. (Correct me if i'm wrong i haven't tried many as of yet.)

I only get the stutter when the secondary card starts stepping down from from 583Mhz to to 383Mhz and then to 275Mhz, Setting most applications to use an SLi mode rather then Single-GPU via nHancer has helped some what but still...

Just wondered if i had missed anything or anyone else had any insight.

 

Have you tried Alex's workaround here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5631704&postcount=631

 

No... Disabling Powermiser isn't a good solution for this issue. If Alienware techs are making a registry change it'd be an officially sanctioned one.

Hopefully someone who has had this done will post what they did.

- Denver

 

Yeah, I believe that it only works on the 19x.xx Drivers as it has no effect on my current 186.64 drivers. (As i said these seem to have the best performance)

It appears i have a choice...

1. Live with a bit of stutter but more performance.
2. Stutter free! (I hope), But a performance hit.

I'm torn between the 2 as I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to audio BUT i bought this for gaming and would like as much as i can get out it

Do you have any idea if there are any better performing drivers where that tweak works?, I haven't tried BatBoys ones yet as i can't find the post.

Cheers!

 

I have and it is much better.

 

Yeah sorry, I forgot that was for 195 series


But here's the thing. I know I got less stuttering with Alex's workaround under A02 and the 195 series drivers.

Now that I've upgraded to A03 and replaced my 195 drivers with 186 series cards, my stuttering's back.

Like Deathcore, I disabled powermizer.

Because Dell's gone and changed the settings in the bios to specifically work with the 186 series cards, going back to the 195 series cards isn't going to help.

And that's the problem with looking for alternate drivers which would allow that fix.

Maybe we need to do something similar to Alex's workaround for the 186 series cards which would allow us to stop downclocks.

If there's absolutely no way to stop downclocking on 186 cards then I think we will have to suffer stutters for a bit.

I really do think downclocking and powermizer activating with that is a huge cause of my latency.

 

Forgot to mention I'm on A03 too, Yeah I agree We may have to just wait for Dell to pull their finger out on this, Either way I'm going to have a fish around in the registry and try and find a way of preventing the downclock as i too think this is the sole reason for my stutter now.

I have screen shots of The DPC checker beside GPUz i get a massive red bar usually 30k+ EVERY underclock then it's all green until the next time it downclocks.

I haven't got high hopes on this one as I've tried alot but if i find anything I'll post. ^^

 

Sorry Blue, but I have to speak up on this one. While I have no 'proof' of this, I can say with nearly 100% certainty that the system BIOS does not 'read' driver versions. What you are seeing is an issue with the driver .inf file. I have modded several NV Display drivers and am slightly familiar with the .inf file and the way it works. Depending on how its written/coded, several aspects of the driver can be altered/affected.

Another factor is the actual BIOS of the GPU. Remember, PowerMizer is a technology developed by NVIDIA. Current .inf files do not reference PowerMizer. Older versions (example 17x.xx series) did have these references. They were removed by NVIDIA and are handled by another aspect of the driver.

Anyway, just a thought I had.

I will look at the 195 series .inf when I have some free time and see what I can come up with. Dont hold your breath though. Modding an .inf for HybridSLI is a pain in the rear.

 

That was the impression I had too, As like i said i get less stutter with Nvidia 195 but less performance then the Dell 186 which led me to believe it was Nvidia's doing, It LOOKS like A03 has done the job for me that aside.

 

Well, FWIW, when I first tested the 195.81 driver one issue (along with a few others) stood out during my testing -

After exiting out of a game and letting the system sit idle for about 10 minutes, I noticed GPU #2 was about 10c higher than GPU #1. Checked clock rates using two instances of GPU-Z. GPU #1 had downclocked properly to 200Mhz/100Mhz while GPU #2 was locked at 583Mhz/950Mhz. So, looks like GPU #2 is failing to accept instruction from PowerMizer to D/C properly. This was also an issue with the 195.55 beta release and the follow up 195.62 WHQL release. This is the main reason why I have chosen to stick with 186.82.

I know we had at least one report of a member installing the 195.81 (might have been 195.85 - not sure) over a 186.xx series driver and they did not observe this. I was unable to confirm.

 

Yep, that's exactly what I had with 195.62 drivers. the beta 195.81 fixed it but there's still some unnecessary upclocking of both cards while doing simple office tasks like browsing.
I think the DPClatency issues are not driver-related.
I'm on-line with Dell trying to prove my points and if I succeed then there might be a good solution for all of us.
Stay tuned.

 

even on clean install both gpus downclock for me with 195.62 and 195.81 too. i can confirm this. downclocking is followed by red spikes of course.

here are my temps 5 minutes after exiting cod mw2. right now i use 195.62 of DOX

 

Not that we need to go around the circle again, but the acpi.sys was the best candidate for this whole issue. As I have mentioned many times before, this is an issue not just on the M17x. The Dell XPS M1730 had issues with DPC Latency and high checker readings/spikes. I dont recall if acpi.sys was ever associated with it as I dont believe none of us (XPS M1730 owners) ever made it that far with the 'investigation'.

If I had to label this issue, I'd say it was primarily a Microsoft issue with probable hardware ties. I know its not something we hope for. If it is, well - good luck convincing Micro$oft to research it. They will just push it back onto the manufacturer. What we really need to hope for is a determination it is just a poorly coded BIOS conflicting with acpi.sys.

 

yes but they fixed the cpu readings (red spikes until 4000 μs) with just a new bios. acpi.sys of microsoft didnt change. lets see if it is responsible for red spikes of gpus downclocking. even though i believe its a hardware problem there is a small possibility that due to the acpi.sys the time needed to downclock may lead to those red spikes

 

I will try to explain it very roughly. The kernel of the OS handles the interrupts (signals that request access to resources like CPU and RAM) of all the devices in a scheduled manner and of course as per request. If the OS is not able to process all these requests in a considerable time (either due to a badly written OS, or badly written drivers or BIOS) we experience a latency and when it comes to sound, as sound stuttering or during game play as video stuttering. As I mentioned before stuttering in Vista is occurring less because there is better compatibility between those 3 factors. Win 7 is a new OS and therefore more prone to incompatibilities. If it was a hardware problem with the same configuration I have I should experience similar or different kinds of problems in other OSes too like Linux, but I didn't which excludes the hardware malfunctioning that's why if Dell offers a new replacement with the same characteristics won't solve the problem, they just try to gain time till they find a solution.

 

Check the BIOS, there is an option for that. (USB Powershare I believe)

 

for what it is worth, just flashed my machine to A03 and although the latency is VERY much reduced, there are still few and far between spikes that go off the screen

It did seem to make my OS run little smoother though, guess they optimized the way interrupts are handled for the OS as my CPU usage tends to be lower now

 

Got my case transferred to a higher level in Dell's support and expecting a decision on Monday.
Will see what they offer as a solution. Told them that replacing the cards/mobo will be a waste of their and my time/money as the hardware is not faulty (I can prove it).
Anyway, will update you on Monday.

 

I can't wait to hear what they decide. My next call from the tech I am working with comes Tuesday night. Maybe what they decide for you can apply to me as well (if it is a good decision).

I'm still in my 21-day customer satisfaction window so I may just request a refund and purchase a new one with ATI video or ask them to at least upgrade me to the ATI cards. No one with ATI video is having these problems right? Am I correct in assuming that or does it happen to some of them as well?

 

Can anyone confirm ati cards have no stuttering ?

 

ive got a really bad issue atm, since upgrading to A3 my temps have gone way up on 186.82. and i tried cod mw2.. and temp hit 101 degrees C. lucky i tabbed out after 5 mins testing.. anyone what to do?

 

can you guys do video chat on msn with bios A03??? i get this error code : 0x8ac70013

 

is there a way to force to cards to lock at the lowest clocks and then make a profile so they work at only the highest clock while gaming? there has to be some way to do this. i would be fine with that. running the cards full boar, i dont think that i am ok with that...

 

flash them to the lower speeds and have them overclock using profiles in NST for games only (it can set certain clocks for certain applications)

 

wow that is a good idea, i never thought about that... what is the flash utility called, i don't remember...

 

nvflash, NiBiTor to alter the bios files though

you need a bootable USB stick to use it

 

thanks scook, will give me something to do tomorrow. anyone else tried this method? I will backup the old bios in case i change my mind...

 

Since you are still within the 21-day, I suggest you return the system and get the refreshed one with i7+ATI cards.
Wish, I had that option...

 

Hi

I'm also experiencing audio stuttering but mostly in windows 7.
But in a correct order my story:
1) from the beging of owning this laptop I had vista home premium and bios a02 and have to say that I had no stuttering with red spikes valued
~4000us, very very seldom some super big spikes witch was stutter, so I decided not to migrate to windows 7,
2)when bios A03 appeared, I decided to move to win 7 and I did all the 14 points provided by Jaypat on dell's blog,
http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2009/11/18/dell-dpc-latency-and-you.aspx

3) unfortunatelly It didn't help at all, I had big red spikes causing stuttering
4) so I decided to try 195.62 v1.1 dox drivers, I disabled powermizer during installation, and now I have no stuttering, all green in dpc checker

my temps are now 47 and 51 for my gtx 260m cards only with m17x cooling but with "antec notebook cooler 200" it was 45 degrees for both cards

so in my opinion it's not that bad to comparing my m1710 which has now 62degrees, of course with bios a02 and vista my temps were around 38 degrees

so how do you guys think stay with win 7 (which I prefer over vista), powermizer disabled and these temps or go back to vista?

 

can somone tell me how to disable powermizer during install how do you do it?

 

download 195.62 v 1.1 dox drivers from:
http://forums.laptopvideo2go.com/topic/26029-dox-19562-v11/

uninstall your current display drivers, reboot, instal drivers above: during installation you will see the option to switch off powermizer and next choose option: hybrid sli

remember to have enabled hybrid graphics in bios if you want to use 9400m as well

 

I always recommend saving the original vBios, is easy enough to do

You need to pull it using GPU-Z then save it and change the extension from .bin to .rom; once it is .rom you can open it with NiBiTor and edit the values then use nvflash to flash it to the card