M9700 + Geforce 7950 GTX and ATi Radeon 3870...

Ok, this is just a follow-up on my series of tests regarding the GPU amongst the Alienware M97xx series and the OCZ Whitebook, know here as the Alienware M17. Now, I've already shown what happens with the M9750 and the ATi 3870 x2 (2 GPU cards) from the OCZ Whitebook/AW 17. This is shown here. Now it's the M9700's turn. For those who forgot, the M9700 was the first iteration of the Arima dual GPU chassis via SLi that used the AMD single core Turion and came in three colors. Thanks to a member here at NBR (mlee49), we can now try what done on the M9750.

First, here are the pictures of all the MXM-III GPUs from Arima (except the 8700M GT):

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9817/ArimaGPUs.jpg

Now here are some results:

The M9700 DOES boot up with a 7950 GTX card from the M9750. Because I only had 1 card, I couldn't try SLi, though I assume that it would work. Installation was pretty straight forward as it's the same as installing a new graphics card for a desktop. Due to some conditions of the notebook received, I couldn't do any gaming benchmarks, but I took screenshots of the temperatures and ran 3dmark06, which are shown here:

Screenshot with idle temps:

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8497/m97007950.jpg

^In fairness, and due to lack of space, the notebook was sitting on a bed, and I applied a small amount of thermal grease. From my experience with the M9750, subtract about 8 degrees from that figure as well from the 3d06 temps, which will be shown later.

3dmark06 scores with a SINGLE 7950 GTX in the M9700:

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3931/m970079503d06.jpg

Temperatures after the run (subtract about 8 degrees, as mentioned before):

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8745/m970079503d06temps.jpg

Now for the ATi card(s)...

Now this is a pic of the M9700 with both ATi cards installed:

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2197/M97003870s.jpg

BUT, oddly enough, the ATi cards did NOT work, both the single and dual GPU setup. What happens is that it boots to the BIOS screen with the alien head, but then it freezes. The GPU fans are blasted at full speed and the same screen is there. I was able to enter the BIOS configuration screen, but after I exit, it freezes that screen and the same problem again. I touched the GPU sinks afterwards, but it didn't feel hot at all.

I'm guessing it's a chipset issue or possibly a BIOS issue. The M9700 uses an nVidia nForce chipset, while the M9750 is a hybrid between nVidia and intel. Also, I noticed that the M9700 requires a battery for it to run on AC (meaning that if you take out the battery and run on AC, it won't boot up), while the M9750 can...or it just might be this notebook in particular due to the AC input issue the owner is having.

So there you have it pretty much, M9700 can handle a 7950 GTX, but not an ATi 3870[x2] for now.

 

Curiously can it handle 3850? even if its a pure nVidia chipset it should be alright with 1 ATi Card, maybe the 9750~M17 has higher power regulations?

 

I wouldn't know; I didn't have a 3850 on hand. Also, power regulation shouldn't be much of an issue seeing that both a single ATi card consumes as much power as a single 7950 GTX.

 

Thanks for sharing, and most interesting.

The M9700 isn't the first notebook I know of that doesn't boot up with a different MXM card. Yes, a BIOS update would be needed to fix that.

Putting a second Go7950GTX in the M9700 would be rather pointless since it has a single-core Turion CPU.

 

Sorry thats what I meant A single 3870 but apparently I missed the line where you said you tested it in single and dual sorry tyvm for the tests!

It sucks that the m9700 is stuck with A single core yet dual GPU's

 

Yeah, M9700 is definitely more limited compared to the M9750. BTW, the OP is updated.

 

Great job Ichime! It's too bad the two ati cards didn't work, I would be dumping the two 7900's in a heart beat! At this point I'm considering upgrading to a single 7950 as the score is just a few hundered points from my 7900 SLI run(see sig). Plus the heat output with just one card should be better to dissapate.

Hopefully some mod's will see this and you can earn a spot as an official NBR reviewer! Great work man!

 

yah it does suck that M9700 can't have dual core....=(

 

Hi i'm really interested in replacing the single 7900 GS in my m9700 with a 7950 gtx, just to give it a little kick in the last year of it's life. I know it's more sensible to change laptop entirely but this seems like more fun! And I can't seem to let go of this single-cored little green beast.

Can i ask ichime, before i order the7950gtx, was it really that easy to put it in? I'm afraid i can't see the pics, what was the 3dmark score and would you consider it safe to put two 7950 gtxs in with good thermal greasing?

Think i'll just stick to one to be safe though.

Would appreciate any help!

Kind Regards,

Dingo

 

Installation of the card is simple, just use AW's guide to removal/replace the video card(includes all of about 20 screws) and install the card into the primary video card slot.
The single card upgrade is good, if you can find the card under $200. I believe I went from 3500 3D06 marks to 5000 marks from a single card upgrade. Two 7900GS's in SLI scored 5500 3d06 marks*(in 2007, maybe better with updated drivers).

Also for more details google a service manual for the Arima W830DA. I know theres one out there that shows how to completely dismantle the entire notebook.

 

Installation is easy, if you have ever mucked about in a pc its pretty simple

i had an m9700 before i brought my m17, gotta love AW when they work

 

Thanks mlee49,

Really helpful advice.
I'm emailing MXM-upgrade.com to see if they can get me the 7950 GTX. It would be nice to see what improvements i could garn.

Are you saying 2x 7900GS SLI > 1x 7950 GTX? Because i might even try 2 x 7950 GTX sli if they're cheap enough and it seems stable enough.


Not knowing a huge amount, (i've acrtic silvered/opened up) i'm going to give this a go, if they're too expensive, i could just add another 7900GS to upgrade to sli.

Will keep you updated.

Can i ask what laptops you moved onto? I'm not sure if i'll get another alienware.

PS- Pmanuk, we don't get a great deal with Alienware UK's prices do we! How's the M17? I've never even met someone else with an alienware, when i took mine into uni people were a bit shocked.

 

great job ichime now i can tell people what they have options for their latops

 

*CONFIRMED* Alienware M9700 compatible w/ single 7950 Dtr card.

 

what are you talking about
'?

 

I replaced the video cards in my Alienware m9700. I removed both Geforce GO 7900 GS 256MB cards and installed a single Geforce 7950 GTX 512MB card. I noticed a market improvement.

 

Mines on it's way from Belgium, just doing it for fun really. Will let you know what the 3D score improvement is.

Would LOVE to upgrade the CPU, but according to the internetz Turion 2.4 Ghz single core is the best this mobo can handle.

 

Ok so today I thought I'd try installing the single 7950 gtx. Artic silvered, ran pre install benchmarks for comparison, uninstalled drivers and took photos of each stage for the mxm website.


However on boot up my screen remains blank.
What should I do? I was thinking of trying to see if an external display would work. Or do I have to take it out and do something to the bios before install.


If the new card was damaged at least integrated graphics would work.
Really in need of your help on this one guys. I'm writing this on my new iPhone (which is lush btw).

 

Any ideas would be hugely appreciated as I'm not sure where to start troubleshooting...

 

Ok, so did you place the card in the primary slot? It does have to be in the master slot or else no go.

Also did you want the service manual? I can email it but I cant upload it here, I'll try to zip it and pm it to you.

 

Yep it's in the primary slot (closest to CPU). I used the guide from the alienware hive on how to replace the gpu which was straight forward. I have all the literature that came with the laptop, but if you can send me anything that would help I'd be grateful. My email address is my [email protected]. Thanks for the reply. I'm going to pc world to get a cable for monitor output, fingers crossed that works!

 

I emailed you the service manual. It's got every detail from removing your card to replacing your entire motherboard.

Have you tried inserting the original card in the primary slot and the new card in the secondary slot?

 

There is no output with a monitor cable. I read somewhere that disabling onboard graphics before install might help.

 

There is no "onboard graphics" in this system.

 

Mlee would a 7900gs in primary & 7950 gtx in secondary work? Rest assured I will try some more things tonight. Thanks so much for the
manual. Can't believe I thought this would be straight forward!

 

Ok let me just clarify something for you in-case this is what was mucking up. Daughter Card = Primary/Master Card. Parent Card = Secondary/Slave Card.
A 7900 and 7950 will not work together, SLI requires two identical cards.

 

Yeah sure, they'd never work together. And I'm trying to put the daughter (master) into the primary slot. But to no avail, just prepared to try anything sensible now. When installing a new graphics card on any system is there anything that you could try to get it working? Sorry this is definitely a learning process for me

 

Thanks for clarifying.

And yes, troubleshooting with the steps you've done so far is what's going to determine if you received a DOA card. Does your computer boot with your 7900 in the primairy slot and the 7950 in the secondary?

The best I can say is try reseating the cards indipendentally and then in alternate configurations just to see if it'll boot.
The 7950 does work, so theres no reason for yours not to unless you have a bad card.

 

Yeah thanks for the PDF, and the advice, I think this card is stuffed because the 7900 gs slots back in perfectly and works. Gonna try the two cards at once just for giggles in next few days. But it's a shame I couldn't emulate the results in this post. I even logged into vista blindly today. Hear all the sounds but no image.

 

*CONFIRMED* Alienware M9700 compatible w/ Dual Geforce 7950 GTX 512MB cards (Dtr & Prt) in SLI mode!

 

Pics or it didnt happen

 

I removed it this morning. It worked, but unless you use a really good laptop cooler I wouldn't recommend it. Runs really hot even with my cooler which has three large fans. I can reinstall it and take pictures if you don't believe me. I swear it worked. Runs too hot though. I'd only use one 7950 it's too risky to overheat and cause damage to the laptop.

 

I have been testing the m9700 with the 7900GS and 7950GTX in single and SLI modes. I have come to a few conclusions. 1) The 7950GTX runs too hot for the m9700 in single and especially SLI mode; 2) The 7900GS in SLI mode outperforms the 7950GTX in single or SLI mode and 3) The 7950 GTX in SLI mode draws more power than the system can provide, which is probably why the system performs so poorly in SLI mode.

When I was running the m9700 with a single 7950GTX (3DMark06 4815) its performance was almost 500 points lower than the system with two 7900GSes in SLI mode (3DMark06 5298). The best 3DMark06 score of 4815 from the m9700 with a single 7950GTX was with the driver XG_Mobile_177.92_XP_32bit.exe from http://tweakforce.com/. I could not find that driver anymore but they have a newer one XTreme-G_182.06m_XP_32bit.exe that gave a score of 4810. This is an insignificant difference in my opinion. With the 191.56 driver from www.laptopvideo2go.com the best 3DMark06 score from the m9700 and a single 9750GTX was 4708.

The m9700 with 7950GTXes in SLI mode was abysmal. The best 3dMark score I had was 3467. This was 2 points better than a single 7900GS (3DMark06 3462). Even worse were the heat issues with the two 7950GTXes. The temperatures were 71 and 72 degrees Celsius. That is 10 to 12 degrees higher than the 7900GSes. This is just asking for overheating problems. Also, the power draw was higher than the PSU could supply. The battery could not charge with the draw from the 2 7950GTX cards. I have read the heat sink and fan from the m97590 will not work in the m9700.The other issue is getting more power to the cards. Not sure if the PSU from the m9750 would work in the m9700 but maybe it could.

The biggest issue was the heat. When running with a single 7950GTX the GPU was 60 degrees Celsius. This would not seem like an issue when knowing that the GPU temps of the two 7900GSes in SLI mode were 59 and 61 degrees Celsius, respectively. However, when I took the machine away from the laptops cooler and played a game the system fan came on at high speed and the laptop shutdown within 10 minutes of starting the game. This has never happened with the machine using the 7900GSes in SLI mode. The system did not shutdown with the 7950GTX from overheating when using the laptop cooler. To me this does not matter since the performance for the 7950GTX did not get the same performance as the 7900GSes in SLI mode.

It is not all negative news for the 7950GTX though. A single 7950GTX (3DMark06 4815) far outperformed a single 7900GS (3DMark06 3462). So if you have a single 7900GS, and cannot find another one, then getting a single 7950GTX would improve your performance greatly. Be sure you buy the daughter card if you get a single 7950GTX since that is the Master/Primary card. Please take measures to keep your system cool though. When playing games it will be mandatory to have a cooler for your laptop. Might need it for playing DVD’s but I did not test that scenario. When doing other tasks that do not require lots of GPU processing than a laptop cooler will probably not be necessary.

Pictures
http://img243.imageshack.us/i/7900gssli.jpg/
http://img4.imageshack.us/i/7950gtxsingle.jpg/
http://img148.imageshack.us/i/7950gtxsli.jpg/

3DMark06 Benchmarks (Idle Temps Celsius)
7900GS-SLI: 5298 (59/61)
7950GTX-Single: 4815 (60)
7900GTX-SLI: 3467 (71/72)
7900GS-Single: 3462 (N/A)

System
Alienware M9700
2x 7900GS in SLI mode
Windows XP Service Pack 3
100MB 7200 rpm HD

 

mlee49 - any chance I could get a copy of that service manual? My m9700 has developed vertical lines on the right side of the screen.

DG

 

I'll check but I'm not sure if I have it anymore.