My Nvidia GTX 880M Test Run Review

You could always ask. However I think your reasoning is solid. I agree it would be a hard sell to try getting 880M's replaced with 780M's.

 

I threw it in with my most recent email with support, explaining that they aren't even maintaining their stock advertised 954MHz out of the box with my second one actually going under 900MHz in heavy Bioshock testing. We'll see what they say.

 

You can put your gtx 880m at lower speed insted of 954 put them at 890mhz and you will see lower temps and the same performance like gtx 780m, I use my gtx 780m only at battery and the result are pretty good that the speed is lower but the performance are almost the same (in what I play cs go) but the temps are 10 -12 C lower. Good luck

 

They are already throttling, why would I throttle them further? With their stock throttling, they both hit 87C as their high but they get knocked down to 78-83 average once the fans kick up so the temps are fine with the stock vbios because it throttles. The modded vbios that doesn't throttle will hit 93C on the second card (which will cause the RAM to throttle, not the core, because of how the BIOS is designed) and 90C on the primary.

If nVidia is incapable of keeping their cards cool enough to hit their stated clocks, they should rate them lower.

 

Nvidia has no control over what chassis their GPU ends up in. If it throttles then the GPU is simply protecting itself from excessive temps. Look at the laptop design. If chassis cooling is bad the GPU cannot perform to it's full potential. The same is true for AMD GPUs.

 

I agree with this to a point. These are supposedly 122W TDP cards which Clevo has based their cooling around that TDP. If that's the case though then they shouldn't be throttling. But the reason for the throttles isn't even heat. It's hitting the power limit coded in the vbios way before it would thermally throttle.

 

True! I forget that I am running slv7's modded vbios.

 

Meh... throttles because it's broken, not as a mechanism to protect itself. They tried to mask it with gimmicks like GPU Boost and "adaptive" performance baloney. Has been like this since 680M, just way lots worse now. There's probably still something in the vBIOS that needs to be expunged so it will run like 680M and 780M. NVIDIA couldn't write a decent Kepler vBIOS if their survival depended on it.

 

I want to but those temps......

I guess I'll play with adaptive vsync for awhile - it certainly killed the problem with Bioshock but I will have to see what Watch Dogs is running at and basically drop my settings until I have 120FPS or drop that game to 60hz... I shouldn't have to do workarounds to get my cards to function properly though.

In my last email to xotic, I went into detail about why I'm not happy with the 880s and explained that under load, my second card isn't even maintaining it's advertised base speed, let's see what they say.

 

This is the first time I've actually done any real reading on this card... such a disappointment considering we all expected the 880m to be gm104 a couple years ago

Oh well, here's hoping the 880mx lives up to its potential.

 

Just out of curiosity. Has anyone with a clevo actually tried keeping the laptop cool enough to see what it "actually" might be capable of doing?

 

Well, I have done a few things. Repasted, taped off some air leaks around the heatsink cooling fins, cut a big hole in my bottom cover. The cooling is better, but still not enough to come close to AW cooling. My opinion only. I have never owned or held an AW in my hands.

Best I was able to pull in 3D Mark 11 was 9097

 

I just pulled down a 3D Mark score of 9393 with the core at 1093, memory at 1475, 1.050v. Kill-a-watt says I had 238w at the wall. That is more than the brick is rated for. Of course the OUTPUT is rated at 230w and an AC to DC power supply is never 100% efficient, but I am definitely at the limit. The core is throttling due to heat at 1093MHz. AS5 probably needs to be replaced with something else.

Last night I installed driver 327.23. I was running 337.88 pior to this.
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A

My best previous score was 8874 running at 994/1475. I do not have a record of my temps for that run.
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A

For the Celvo, the biggest problem I see with it is the cooling. It needs to be better than this to push the hardware any harder. This is where the AW definitely has the upper hand. I would own an Alienware if it had a business like appearance. But then it wouldn't be an Alienware.



I am still running AS5. I have

 

Why did you drop to 327.23? Just for benchmarking or was there a driver issue?

Nice score btw. You can tell the CPU choked on that one (the physics score is lower) and you still got an awesome score.

I haven't read many people finding good results with AS5 instead of ICD, I'd probably switch to ICD in your situation.

As for the cooling, I'm not entirely convinced that an Alienware would cool it much more with the mod that you made.

 

Well, GPU cooling is not a problem in an Alienware 18 now that the BIOS allows us to use manual fan controls. It was before only because some silly goose that has an influence on the product design thought it would be cuter to have a quiet machine instead of one that runs cool. As a result, the fans rarely ever turn on with the stock fan profiles. What is crazy about that is when all three fans are pushed to 100% manually the system still is not very loud. I run all three fans full blast when benching or gaming for long periods and the GPUs never get hot. Alienware has always had outstanding cooling systems in their dual-GPU beasts. The fan speed is still gimped, but it has a great cooling system that does a wonderful job. So, if cooling is still a challenge with a modded bottom cover, IC Diamond or Liquid Ultra might help tame the Clevo temps.

 

I just wanted to try 327.23 since I borked my first attempt at an inf mod to get it installed. I didn't really have issues with my previous driver. I forget the number, but I held back one step from the latest.

 

I'm thinking more cooling less modding. Example: at night take the laptop out back or on the porch or balcony. Let it sit for about 10 minutes, then crank fans on max and run a bench. Use a portable a/c or a wall unit. Or anything able to keep the laptop cool. Mods are fine and dandy and all, but it's not replacement for direct cooler air flow. I would have found this out already but My attention has been focused on my car and not a new clevo.

 

Other than not being optimized well for some of the latest games, 327.23 is an excellent driver. The fact that many 880M GPUs work reasonably well with that old driver and not well at all with the latest beta does suggest that NVIDIA is pulling some shenanigans with drivers.

The asinine focus on being energy efficient may be party responsible for this nonsense. Way too many resources are being blown on popular trends in stupidity. Intel and NVIDIA both need to knock it off and get back on track with making performance job #1. Energy efficiency is nice if you get it as a free byproduct, but it should not be a primary goal. The sissies that are making a lot of hoo-hah noise about needing to be able to play demanding games with an Ultrabook are not helping things either. This is getting the cart in front of the horse. They need to build monster chips and then leave it up to the laptop manufacturers to build whatever kind of chassis is necessary to adequately manage the power and thermal demands of the processors. If that means bigger and thicker is required, then so be it... just stop cutting corners with compromises.

 

The reason that the companies have shifted to energy efficiency has more to do with needing a new product but being unable to significantly increase the actual performance. By optimizing power usage they can release a new product and say hey its not much faster but it consumes less power.

This practice shouldn't be legal IMO but it is what it is.

 

I agree... shouldn't be legal.

The "need" is also merely a perception. This is no such need, but it is a big "I want" thing for thin and light fanboys. I can't relate to it personally, but there are plenty of trends in tech that I view as being worthless or of limited value. I think a lot of it is pure and simple gadget addiction and a fetish for stuff, stuff and more stuff that drives this nonsense. For a few years the big deal was convergence. They still use that word a lot, but we see more limited purpose discrete devices than we have ever seen before.

 

Eh... I live in Tennessee. Outside temps are in the low 90's (f), and it's raining on and off. I understand the curiosity of seeing how far the Clevo can be pushed, but I am more interested in how far it can go while sitting on my desk, thus the cooling mod I did. It really did help. I can run 933/1475 at 975mV all day long without issues.

 

Well guys... I've just ran Sniper Elite 3 on ultra settings + vsync. I'm hitting 60 FPS solid with the below clock speed.

993/2500

CPU - 3.7ghz (i7 4710MQ).

This is of course using Slv's and John's vbios for the 880m. Touch wood, my problems now over for the time being. I can actually get back to enjoying my AW's knowing this now. I may even flash my dual 880m's in my AW 18. I know Sniper Elite 3 may not be the most demanding game, but it's a bloody good start seeing it running at 60FPS without a problem.

My highest temps with 1 hour 27 minutes of gaming.

CPU - 66c
GPU - 73c

Those temps were just running the fans at stock tables. If I had the fans running at full via HWINFO, I would expect my GPU to reach 70c max, and the CPU around 62 or below. I have to thank Mr. Fox once again. Over the past 2 weeks, he's done nothing but be a saint in my corner. He's helped me get through this every step of the way. If you need help guys, brother Fox is the person you want fighting in your corner. My thanks also goes to John and Slv for of course, providing our community with the 880m vbios. I look forward to future revisions of this vbios John

 

The problem with this is, it's been done already.
What hasn't been done is more of interest at the moment, since it's likely to be a one time thing. Where as running stock clocks is more of a 24/7 thing.

 

Hasnt Brother Fox and your Self Tried these cards on AC? if they throttle with that then well..

 

I think the cooling in the P570WM is good..

 

I understand that *I* am not doing anything special. :thumbsup:

Most ideas to try things came from other's posts. Tech Inferno has a really nice post on Clevo models and the cooling issues that I have relied heavily upon for much of what I have done.
Specifically, here: [HARDWARE MOD] Clevo P150/P170 cooling system (solutions here)

Reading posts from you, Mr. Fox, HTWingnut, and of course, slv7 have been invaluable. The modded vBIOS is a thing of beauty in my eyes. The progress I have made with my Clevo has only been possible by following others. No doubt about that at all.

However, I have reached the limit regardless of cooling. My 230w AC adapter is pulling 278w from the wall according to Kill-a-watt. I am amazed that it hasn't popped by now.

 

No worries deadsmiley. I understand.

 

Perhaps I misunderstood what you said?

Were you asking me to push further?

I have different goals or and maybe I actually have the same goals and don't know it. This is my foray into laptop overclocking or even gaming grade laptop hardware.

It seems these Clevos run hot due to poor air intake vents and warped heatsink die contact areas.

Are your Alienware heatsinks flat?

 

I have never had an 880M before.

 

Yeah Khenglish over at Techinferno said the main reason Clevos run hot is due to warped heatsink. So even with more powerful fans they run hotter than Alienware, and apparently Clevo doesn't realize this which is why they keep throwing in bigger fans to try to control the temperature.

I can attest to this, as both my master and slave GPU heatsinks have decent contact only on the peripherals of the die. Normally you would lap the GPU heatsink, and I've definitely given that some thought, but in the end decided to just leave it alone and find other ways around the problem.

Btw check out this very cool U3 fan mod. I ordered the fans and controller and will be giving it a go with my P370SM. I may even go further and take a Dremel to the U3 if I feel adventurous enough, but we'll see...

 

They all (880m) run hot but not from the die as everyone seems to think is the culprit. I have already tested the theory as to what may or may not be generating the most heat. Hell, I booted the machine without a heat sink fully attached to see if the die was really that hot and it wasn't.

The cold air scenario is to see if the same clocks get better results. To see just where the slow downs start and at what temps and so forth. I would already have the answers but of course I didn't go buy a machine.

My goal is to find out what it can do just as the opening post suggest. And for that to happen it needs to be far cooler than room temp. This is why developments take far longer because everyone has a different agenda. I bought this M18X brand new and tore it apart the same day to get to the bottom of things, but that's just me. Once I found out what it could really do and what stock is suppose to look like. Then I could work on room temp stuff. Because I know know exactly what a stock score is suppose to be. These are just some of the many things tested in finding what works or doesn't work.

As to your 240W adapter. it should shut down at about 300W give or take. If you keep it cool, it may take longer or give a little more before shutdown. (Speculation) A 300W or 330 watt would be more beneficial since it can pull about 330W total draw with everything heavily overclocked.

No worries. All is good Brother Smiley

Edit:
Besides, this was a bit more important than me getting a clevo right now.

 

There should be a way to address the warped heat sink. Depending on how badly it is warped, lapping might require removing too much material from the copper heat plate. I am wondering if a person could not do some kind of mod with copper billet... have a machine shop precision mill the heat sink plate and a matching precision machined copper shim with Liquid Ultra on all of the mating surfaces.

Thanks for sharing the link to that U3 mod. I have a single 120MM fan with an AC adapter powering it and that works better than the lame (read that "absolutely worthless" fans) USB powered fans that come with it. I don't need extra cooling for the 780M cards, but every little bit helps. I like that self-powered fan controller and grabbed one from NewEgg. My Cooler Master Sickleflow 120MM fan needs to be RMA'd by Cooler Master because it makes a bunch of rattling noises and does not spin as fast as it should in a horizontal position. In a vertical position the noise goes away and the fan speeds up. I am waiting for a response from Cooler Master. I will see if those Rosewill fans are any better in a horizontal installation. The CFM rating is about the same.

Don't expect this to make a huge difference in cooling. I did it because I like the U3 as a stand and want to get at least some minor benefit in terms of cooling... and that is about as far as it goes... minor is the key word here. No laptop coolers are highly effective because in order to be effective they would make so much fan noise nobody would want them.

I also recommend this simple, yet effective, fan filter. Rosewill RFT-120MM Fan Filter - Newegg.com. With increased CFM comes increase volume of trash getting blown into the laptop air inlet. This helps keep that down. The foam filter is cleanable. After only a few days it gets an amazing amount of dust, lint and other debris trapped in it.

 

I figured it was getting close. 230w output is not the same as 230w input. There are of course inefficiencies in converting from AC power to DC power. I figured around 85% or so. That puts me close to your stated 300w max. I can get a 330w adapter that fits my 4-pin power input. I may try that when I get a bit more adventurous. I must be careful though. While I like to play, this laptop is my money maker. I am a self-employed contract engineer so I really can't afford to get too crazy with it.

Hell. Freakin'. Yeah.


Just so we are clear. My panties aren't in a wad. I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were trying to tell me/us. I appreciate the input. I really do. :thumbsup:

 

My car is also the primary reason I don't have a P570WM already. The cash I would have used to buy a P570MW got gobbled up on an engine rebuild... being without transportation was not an option.

 

Yeah that's exactly why I ditched the idea of lapping, because quite frankly I feel to get the most benefit I will only need to lap a certain corner of the heatsink, and my skills are definitely not up to par for precision lapping.

That fan filter looks interesting, and might be worth getting if they don't cut airflow by too much. You're right, the stock U3 fans just barely make it past being worthless when run on full, and even then they kick up a lot of dust. I think the bigger problem is that the U3 itself blocks half the airflow -- the holes just aren't big enough, and there aren't enough of them. A honeycomb design would've been a much better.

If I ever got around to trying the Dremel mod it would involve cutting a rectangular hole where the 3x 120mm fans would be. Not the entire fan area of course, but a smaller rectangle so the fans will still have some support, and wil be blowing air directly into the laptop. My main concern is my P370SM weighs almost 10 pounds, and cutting a big ol' rectangular hole right in the center of the U3 chassis doesn't seem like the best idea for structural integrity and supporting the laptop's weight. The four corners do the heavy lifting (pun intended) and bear most of the weight, so I might be ok... Maybe I need to get a second U3 LOL. Now I understand why modding is addictive and burns through your wallet fast.

Btw deadsmiley RJTech is selling those bottom covers for $45 a piece. Just ordered one about 30 minutes ago, so I'll be trying out your mod when it gets here. I don't know if they the covers for the P170SM-A, so worth asking about it. My goal is to see if I can get the 780Ms to max out at 70C when gaming at stock clocks. Highly ambitious but should be possible with your mod and the U3 mod (might need the dremel mod for it).

 

Lapping isn't that bad. I spent about 45 minutes doing it. The trick is to have a good flat surface and keep the sand paper clean. I used WD-40 as a lubricant while sanding. It's messy. I used nitrile gloves. Inexpensive 1-2-3 blocks can be found here.
1-2-3 Blocks with No Hole

Mine have holes in them yet it's spaced far enough to do the job. The "no holes" 1-2-3 blocks would be better I would guess.

EDIT: Here is a pair of 1-2-3 blocks for $13 http://littlemachineshop.com/1233

 

I have looked on their site and haven't located the bottom cover for the P170SM-A. I will call them. Thanks for the tip!

 

Yeah, you're right about the U3 surface blocking too much air flow. It absolutely does and many people have posted about that problem. It works effectively upside down with nothing but open air space under the laptop. Any laptop cooler that has holes or slots in the surface is going to block air flow. I think a fine wire screen would also block air flow almost as badly. If half the surface is a solid material and half is an opening, you lose a great deal of air flow capacity. In addition to blocking air flow, anything that increases turbulence on the exhaust side of the fan could potentially result in less air being blowing into the system. You almost need an open grille design like the finger guard type of grilles typically used on case fans.

The fan filter does not seem to impede much, but anything at all will have some effect in terms of blockage. Being on the intake rather than the exhaust side of the fan possibly helps to minimize turbulence. It's not a very fine filter. It is a coarse foam that will catch only bigger stuff. As it begins to accumulate debris, then it probably will begin to hinder air flow by quite a bit. But, they just snap onto a frame that screws onto the fan and cleaning it is a cinch. I'd rather have more garbage captured in the cleanable filter than getting it blow into the fans and heat sinks since they are more trouble to clean.

A finger guard type of grille might work better on the Clevo bottom cover mod, as long as it is not so thick as to interfere with the laptop resting on its rubber feet properly.

Speaking of rubber feet, that is something that every manufacturer should at a little bit closer. I believe that having laptop feet that are taller and increase the space between the table/desk surface and bottom cover would be more effective than most aftermarket cooling pads.

 

I'm 100% with you on the rubber feet clearance. Low clearance is tolerable for mainstream notebooks, but on enthusiast grade machines this just becomes the Achilles heel of cooling. The P570WM does come close, as from the pictures the feet appear to be least 0.5 to 3/4 inch tall.

A bit off-topic but Clevo was (and still is) known for being the only company to make laptops containing desktop CPUs, so the predecessor to the P570WM was Clevo's flagship and what people associated Clevo with. The P570WM started as the D900F, then became the X7200, followed by the P270WM and finally the P570WM as we know it today. This may explain why of all the Clevo laptops, the P570WM appears to the most well-built.

In contrast my P370SM is only a 2nd gen product, with only the P370EM before it, which may explain why there's still a lot of imperfections. Though in all fairness I'm nitpicking. And the recent refresh (P370SM-A) does have improved cooling compared to mine.

 

It would be cool if the feet flipped up like on a keyboard. Someone here mentioned that...

 

Yes they have had that for a while, but this current generation is the first to offer really impressive overclocked 6-core CPU performance. The older generations had too many BIOS limitations that impeded overclocking to make it worth buying judging from most the benchmark scores I have seen. They did not perform much better than a Sandy or Ivy XM CPU. The current generation with 4930K/4960X are truly impressive performers. From what I understand, the BIOS is still a bit of a mess, but huge improvements... this is the first time, ever, that I have actually wanted to own a Clevo and it is entirely due to the benchmark scores that the P570WM owners are cranking out with their 4930K CPUs. I would never even consider buying one with a desktop quad core because those CPUs don't really perform any better, and in some cases not as well as, the 3920XM/3940XM.

If I am not mistaken, didn't they also do something to improve the cooling on the current models? Seems like I remember something about the older generation CPU running too hot, but I have not seen any complaints about thermal management with the 4930K/4960X powered models.

That is a really outstanding idea. If they made the flip-out legs super-sturdy and nearly impossible to break off it would be downright excellent.

Dell has batteries for older XPS, Latitude and Precision laptops that elevated the back of the machine, but I don't know to what extent it improved cooling since the battery is located where one would want an air intake. I suspect that was more for ergonomics than cooling, or maybe just a way of adding more cells for longer battery life and getting a little extra purpose from it. That big hump also made transporting those laptop a little bit more cumbersome because they are not flat on the bottom with that type of battery installed.

 

I got a question.. Ive heard the new machine wont accept dual psu mod correct? but has any one tried 2 psus that ship with the new machine?
Maybe theres a different signal that gets sent from the new psu that the older psu do not have?

 

No, it's exactly the same AC adapter. They are totally interchangeable. I have five of them, LOL. It's not that it does not "accept" the dual AC adapter mod. It does, in fact, work. It is recognized in the BIOS, charges and functions exactly the same as one AC adapter. What does not work is the fact that the Alienware 18 motherboard has a power handling limitation. The Alienware 18 turns itself off once it reaches the neighborhood of 325W-335W power draw, so having the extra power available with the dual AC adapter is meaningless when it is connected to the Alienware 18 because the capacity cannot be utilized. It's sad, because the power handling limitation is a little bit less than the capacity of a single 330W AC adapter. Add a 4930MX to the configuration and there is 20-30W more power going to the CPU than there is with 3920XM/3940XM overclocked to the same core ratio. It does not take a lot of mathematical skill to see that is not going to be a story with a happy ending if you like GPU overclocking.

This is why I have been so disappointed and outspoken about the power handling limitation. They really gimped something on the motherboard that ruins the chances of the 18 ever achieving performance that rivals the M18xR1/R2. They run neck and neck until you hit that power wall and it shuts off... whereas the M18x just keeps on going and going... way, way past anything the Alienware 18 can accomplish.

There is the possibility the motherboard in this machine has something wrong with it that other systems do not, but I think I am the only person that has ever attempted to use it. Probably a slim chance of that, but until someone tries it we won't know with certainty. I do know that I cannot overclock this Alienware 18 hard enough to trip the AC adapter's internal breaker. It trips a breaker on the machine itself and the AC adapter stays running. With the M18xR1/R2 you can trip the internal breaker on a single 330W AC adapter without even having to try hard.

There is probably something that can be modded on the motherboard to fix this, but I don't know what that something is... yet.

 

Stock BIOS is still pretty useless for number chasing I believe, but due to Prema's hard work the machine runs like its supposed to.

The older Sandy Bridge-E had issues with overheating due to the TDP of the chip itself I think. The 3970X had a nominal 150W TDP but the heatsink was rated for only 130W I believe. So even at stock it was struggling to keep it cool. Clevo may have improved the cooling with the refresh, but it certainly helps that the 4930K and 4960X are only 130W TDP now.

 

Dayum straight :thumbsup: John, rims aside, how much each tire cost? that rubber gotta be more than a high end mobile VC. Yep, even our alternative hobbies are $$$$$ $$$$. You still got the heavy noise in the trunk?

Nice job!

 

Thanks Brother Q.
The rubber cost 650 for all 4 and rims were 285 each, but got a discount price from a prior transaction with them so everything was under 1800.00

As to the trunk, I didn't do it like the lexus this time. I wanted a more factory type clean look. When I couldn't get that. LOL. I threw in the dnn770hd and a kicker 5 channel amp and ran the factory speaker's. And I gotta say, it sounds awesome. Bose is top of the line and it just came alive with a bigger than factory amp.

If it wasnt for the warranty, this car would have cost me almost the full price of 3 alienwares decked out or 4 clevos. lol

 

Got the fans and fan controller today, was hoping to get some modding going, but the external fan controller is an absolute piece of crap. Worked for about 2 minutes then died on me. It is very cheaply made and I could feel the DC jack wiggle if I applied enough force. Seriously dampened my mood. Will have to RMA this junk it seems...

 

Darn it... mine is going to be here tomorrow, too. I saw where other buyers complained of the same thing in reviews. If they are all made that poorly, maybe a better solution to RMA is to use its components as the foundation for something better. It might have stopped working for a reason as simple as a crappy soldering job. I did a bit of searching trying to find another self-contained powered controller like that and could not find an alternative.

 

Yeah that's the part that sucks, seems like this is the only controller on the market that includes an DC jack for a standalone solution. The other option at this point is to buy a 12V DC adapter with 4-pin Molex and then use a 3-way Molex splitter and a Molex to 3-pin fan adapter for each fan. Definitely a very convoluted solution but it should.

EDIT: As I typed that out, I suddenly realized a USB to SATA kit I bought a long time ago had a 12V/2A adapter with a 4-pin Molex. (the adapter that comes with the controller is also 12V/2A) Quickly dug it out and tried it on the fan controller AND IT WORKS!

So seems like it was the DC jack that crapped out on me. Not too surprising given how fragile it felt.

EDIT 2: Hmm I may have spoken too soon, seems like there's some dodgy business going on. When I first plugged all 3 fans in, only 2 fans were spinning. After switching the non-spinning fan to the other unused 3-pin plug on the controller, it started spinning, but just going by how much air it's pushing it seems to be spinning at a slower speed, while the other 2 fans are going full bore. After testing each of the four 3-pin connectors, I found that one was indeed completely dead, and another one seemed to not be receiving enough power. Whether this is the controller or the adapter I still need to figure out.

Also, make sure you have some strong electrical/foil tape, the blue LEDs are blinding.

Fan noise is quite audible when all 3 fans are running full bore (well as full as they can on my unit anyway), but on minimum speed it's about as loud as when the stock fans are running full speed. So far idle temp difference between min and max seem to be only 1C, but even on low it's about 3C better than with the stock fans on full.

 

Mine is working good. It does not seem poorly made to me either. Maybe I was expecting the worst so now it does not seem as bad, LOL.

I mounted the controller on the back crossrail with double-side foam tape. The LEDs are super bright, but where they are it won't matter. Overall I'm about as pleased as I could expect to be. It's pretty cool as a novelty, and certainly far more effective than any lame stock laptop cooler would ever be.

Here are few photos: http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...ok-coolers-m18xr1-r2-18-a-39.html#post9712100