New Poll (Manually by me) M15x Owners Post if your downclocking/heat issues has been fixed or NOT fixed

I think the issue is not 100% related to gpu temps. As I've mentioned before, when I prop up the back .5 inches or so, I get downclocking (in crysis). The temps I downclock at are around 85, 86. However, when I play it flat on my desk, the game runs smoothly until 88, 89 at which point the fans kick into high gear and temps drop. In these scenarios, I never have downclocking at all (how'd i get past the 85, 86c downclocking?).

The only conclusion I can get from all this is that downclocking is not exclusively gpu temp driven, ie temps are 89 = downclock. Many people are downclocking at different temps, some 85 some 92, etc. Its not consistent.

 

Hi guys,

sorry made a same post at the The Official m15x Owners Lounge II thread before i realise this should be the correct thread to post regarding my issue.

I just got my m15x last friday (ordered on 10 mar - received 11 apr). Was reading in the forum regarding the heat and downclocking of gpu issues.
I just did a test on my m15x with NFS pro street and max graphic settings. During the game, the fan speed increase and after a race i swap the screen back to gpu-z and saw the gpu down clock but resume back to normal after the temperature drop. Max temp reach is 90.

Is my m15x having the same down clocking issue as you guys?

 

** SYSTEM GOT UP TOO 107 degrees C!**

Alright guys I got my M15x last friday, and as soon as I got it I downloaded RivaTuner and 3dmark06 and installed crysis and cod4. Now with 3dmark06, my temp reached 106 degrees C till the fans started to kick in and videocard downclocked. My system never goes below 90 degees C. I was so upset that I spend $4200 on my system so I called AW for a refund today and told me I had to pay a 15% restocking fee. So I decided to have tech support help me, and basically they just monitored my system from their end, saw it go to 107 degrees C !!!!! And basically told me thy had no idea why it temperatures went so high and why it was still downclocking. Furthermore, they told me they couldn't do nothing about the 15% resticking fee, they said it still apllied to my system. I'm frustrated and will NEVER buy from alienware again.

X9000
4 gigs of ram
8800 gtx
200 gig hd

 

I have to say... it's really infuriating what's going on. How is it possible this is happening, honestly? ALL the laptops downclock... Some reach 106ºC and they say you will have to pay 15% restocking fee? You know what you should do... play with it until it burns, and then file a process on them to make them go bankrupt.

 

Yeah, I've noticed it isn't as consistent as I said before. Sometimes the fan will turn off from max but restart later. However, sometimes, the fan will shut off and not turn back on again, leading to downclocking. Usually happens maybe a half-hour into playing.

 

There are so many factors that have to be considered when investigating the downclocking issue:
Is it software related, i.e. those fabulous thermal profiles still not perfect or buggy, some part of the stealth mode code interfering with drivers?
Or hardware, thermal paste not good enough, heatpipe not working correct (i.e. when you put it on a cooling station and its not laying flat, I think heatpipes have problems with angles), heatsink too small for the thermal power, fan not generating enough airflow.
Or a combination, i.e. heat while gaming accidentially activating stealth mode button somehow...

One question considering those different gpu temps, does anybody know where the temps are detected? Directly inside the gpu or with a sensor somewhere on the board?

Sorry for not posting any experiences with downclocking, I don't have my m15x yet, will test around and post my results as soon as it has arrived!

 

I'm pretty sure the root cause of this is that the GPU fan does not turn on correctly, and when it doesn't, the GPU gets scared of overheating and downclocks. This type of thing happened to my old laptop, so I have had something like this before. If I were to put a stick in the fans of my old laptop so as to stop them from moving, the BIOS would set the fan speed to max. Since I am literally blocking it, that change obviously doesn't do anything. The BIOS, worried that the fans are broken, then downclocks the CPU permanently until you restart the computer. I think something similar is happening here. The GPU fan's thermal profiles are messed up, and sometimes when it doesn't turn on (when it needs to), the GPU worries that the fans are "broken" and then downclocks.

Now while this explanation doesn't really tell us much new, it would explain such things as why the problem occurs at different temperatures for different laptops (since the BIOS would be measuring heat "flow", not actual temperature) or how lifting your laptop a half-inch changes it too (heat flow is probably reduced). I'm just throwin around ideas... but all I know is that my CIT agent recommended me to send in my laptop for a new one, which I definitely won't do now knowing that everyone's still having this problem.

 

YEap its downclock. GPU & CPU clock suppose to stay constant.

 

The numbers is a lot worst than I was expecting, 4 systems not having any of these issues compared to 20 systems having this issue. And thats the worst temperature thats been listed as of yet Gabe, and your system is one of the new ones 4 11 2008 :/ means they are not doing nothing about it and it seems alienware-frank vanished as soon as people realized there was still problems...

16% working systems

83% defective systems

I don't like the odds so far >.<

 

Dear Mr. *Havok*,

Thank you for keeping in touch with Alienware.

Regarding the information provided, we are currently researching about the downclocking issue that you have reported.

Apparently, it is a speed step technology built in the CPU to prevent overheating, and we are currently working on a solution for it.

Your patience in this matter is highly appreciated.

If you have any other questions or technical issues, please do not hesitate to contact us again, or visit our Knowledge Base at http://support.alienware.com.

Thank you again for choosing Alienware and have a great day!

Best regards,

A********* M*****
Electronic Support
Alienware Corporation

 

I do think AW deserves a kick up their buts... Someone should really write a nice, long article on CS, delays, lies, Downclock, bad building quality, ilegally charging 15% for returning a DEFECTIVE laptop... That would show them that they should treat costumers as the most important piece of all their system.

 

QUOTE=Jayonhavok;3237833]Dear Mr. *Havok*,

Thank you for keeping in touch with Alienware.

Regarding the information provided, we are currently researching about the downclocking issue that you have reported.

Apparently, it is a speed step technology built in the CPU to prevent overheating, and we are currently working on a solution for it.

Your patience in this matter is highly appreciated.

If you have any other questions or technical issues, please do not hesitate to contact us again, or visit our Knowledge Base at http://support.alienware.com.



Vague response, I don't know its been months now since they released the system and the company spent a lot of R&D developing this system plus a bunch of stress testing before even releasing it. So I'm a bit worried if after running all that test and further releasing the bios, they still can't fixed the problem. The case may be is that they can't fix the problem.. dunno

 

Thanks rexibaby987.

Hopefully AW is able to redesign the cooling system to replace our current 1s.

 

4:20. Ok...Maybe I'm glad I didn't sell my laptop asap or I would've been within the first batches of this laptop.

Unless you're in a hot room (78c+) Hitting 107c is pretty high for a laptop. After showing that, and showing that the laptop downclocks and AW still wanted to charge 15% restocking fee, I'm glad I didn't buy it.

I will want a replacement laptop before leaving on vacation in June, but looks like it just isn't going to happen.

 

No, don't get me wrong. The thread was a good idea. I just meant everybody (and here I'm doing it. ) is writing things beyond the original post. I wanted something (and tell me if this makes sense) that shows a list oh who has issues, who doesnt. Whos trying to get fixed and what AW is doing. That's it. So something like a bogus account is created, so people can PM the Thread starter and he can update the locked thread. That way people can come to like a single page thread that gives a heads up on whats going on. Instead of logging in every 12hrs just to read another 4 pages of complaints that was said in other posts.

Yes, I know that the 1st page has the running list. But if only the Thread starter can post, he can list whos having what issue and whats being done. With 20 people having issues, that would mean like 20 different posts, but thats managable vs reading 12 pages of stuff?

 

That's kinda like what Chaz has with his review of the m15x - He posted the review on the site and had another thread (on this forum) to discuss it.
We'd need moderator help to get something on that scale out, starstreak..

This thread also had some discussion on how to put together the information recieved, in what form to send it and to whom - everyone needs to be involved in that decision..
Just some thoughts whizzing around in my head

 

I didn't say it was easy to do. It was just my idea of trying to clear out 100 different posts on "i'm downclocking I need help" or "AW sux because my unit downclocks"
I still was a good laptop. I just want to know if its being fixed and how its being done. I hate reading all these posts trying to see if the latest m15x owner got his problem solved.

On a side note, I see "gabenaeel" post got AW to respond to his plea for help. I'm hoping to see something being done about it now.
I hope "firstn20" will update the list in saying that he was offered help.

 

Star, trust me, if you talked to the CSR's or tech support guys from Alienware, you would get frustrated like Gabe there. When I finally made up my mind on purchasing a M15x, I was asking about the Extreme X9000 processors, and the CSR rep told me "Sir your system will be recieving the QUADCORE processor", It really threw me off and asked to speak with tech support. They refused since I didn't have a account number since DUH, I didn't order my system yet.

Dell outsources their CSR and Tech suport, minus the roswell tech support (good luck trying to get a hold of these guys, you gotta be special). I call Alienware almost EVERYDAY, always asking about the problem and they tell me "It's fixed as far as I know, you won't have a problem." So I tell them about how so many people are still having problems and they tell me "We sell HUNDREDS of systems everyday, and maybe, MAYBE 1 or 2 is defective." This really frustrates me when I talk to them, they sound like ROBOTS.

I direct them to NBR and I tell them look at the current ratio and I also direct them to the Alienware-frank thread and they ignore it saying "the problem is fixed sir, you won't ahve any problems." I tell them people who got their system in april are still ahving problems, and they keep FREAKING repeating the same thing.

I call them up almost everyday too see if they done anything to fix it, and according to them, they are not fixing anything. Now this really pisses me off, I want the system and I just want to know when its going to be safe to buy but these a*shol*s keeps aying the same old sh*t.

Management just tell them one thing, and they stick to it, these guys who are outsourced employees know nothing about the system or the problems. Think about it people, how the HELL could AW release this system without even noticing the problem? Did they NOT run a stress test? What the hell happened? Did they test 1 freaking system?

I will ocntinue to call AW and continue to send emails to AW-Steve WHO NEVER REPLIES. I am thinking AW-STEVE is a CSR agent and is sent here to sound friendly and like a ROBOT (JUST LIKE THE CSR'S I TALK WITH, EXACTLY LIKE THEM) "Well help you just callor email so and so" in the end they don't return your call or tell you we can't fix the problem, FORK OUT THE 15% RESTOCKING FEE for the defective product.

AW-STEVE in my opinion bud, your one of the CSR's that is told 1 thing and stick to it. You never resolved anyones problems here really, in the end you just offer to give them a replacement that is broken, or a return with 15% restocking fee + shipping payments.

Just sick and tired of deceptive practices, I can't stress it enough, how did these defective systems get passed the initial testing when it was still a prototype/demo system. It wouldn't be so bad if there was a ratio of 85% working to 15% defective, but NO, its not its the opposite, there has to be a problem.

I talked to every single CSR rep I believe and two managers, and let me tell you guys, THEY HAVE NO IDEA about the downclocking problem,a ccording to them its fixed. Sometimes a company finds a flaw in their products, and they spend so much money investing on this product that if they decide to discontinue the product (come on its obvious, no word from alienware on the problem, no date, no update on any future fixes nothing) they will lose more money then if a class action suit was brought. Happens to pharmaceutical products all the time.

The bottom line is, if your stupid enough to purchase or even think about purchasing this system like me, think again. You will be sent a defective product, $4000 and the DAY IT GETS THERE, its defective. RIGHT there an then, you owe 15% restocking fee. And right there and then, you know there can't be anything done about it, you either have to accept you bought a defective product or spend $500ish + shipping charges to send it back when you hardly even used it. If youd ecide to keep it, get ready for the on going saga... Frustration with CSR, Tech support, and you will go through the same loop over and over and over and over and over and over again:

1. call CSR

2. CSR send you to a tech support

3. TECH checks and finds something wrong

4. Tell you to ship back your system

5. Wait 4 weeks for your system

6. Get it back and still downclocks (no evidence yet that the new systems had comeback problem free)

7. Call CSR

8. Direct you to tech support

9. Tech can't fix it, tells you to send it back

10. you decide your stupid enough to go through the process again

11. repeat everything

12. you get tech support again, offer you to refund the system maybe without the 15% restocking fee, but also maybe with the restocking fee.


Think about that people before you even think about purchasing, get ready for a M15X Saga...

AW is dishonest from my experiances and its all the CEO's fault, hes in charge of everything, R&D, CSR, TECH SUPPORT etc..... hes making these decsions. I challenge AW-Steve to reply to the many emails I sent him, Theres only 1 person with [email protected] email, I'm not sending you MORE E-MAILS cause I send you MANY and I even DOUBLE SENT ALL OF THEM cause I know something like this might happen.

This is all a matter of opinion Moderators, so I don't feel like yous hould delete this, its my OPINION, freedom of speech yada yada yada

 

nice speech firstn20. I am glad that I chose sager instead.

 

Thanks for saying it the way it is....rep

 

As i said before i am on of those who still w8ting this problem to get solved so i can place my order.Ill place my 2cents and i will give a +rep to firstn20 for all this effort.

I believe IS time for some action,since we have this horrible ratio by real customers(which is a fact) we need to do sth and let the numbers talk on their own...

If we create a letter sharing this poll and all the benchs i dont believe engadget or any other site will let this pass like this,is pretty obvious and close to common sense whats going on,we gave enough time to AW,now its time to take action....

P.S: WRU Stone???

 

Thats why I thought a list like this is good. I was just thinking out loud on how to make it "better". firstn20 made a good point. If people are talking to aw-steve and nothing is being replied back, then that should be a little note next to the persons name in your list. That way we know the person who bought the laptop made a step and if AW isn't going to meet them, I want to know. As I mentioned in another post, I'm not buying ANY AW item till I know it works.

 

Hi guys,
Just wondering what's your gpu idling average temperature?
I have just change my thermal compound to artic silver 5... average 70oC
but max became worst 94oC from previous 90oC and the strange things is my gpu did not down clock.
If i were to change back to AW thermal compound, what compound do they use? Where can I get it?

 

Since I can't quote the whole speech firstn20 made, I'm only gonna to refer to those parts that I want to reply to..

"This really frustrates me when I talk to them, they sound like ROBOTS."
Unfortunately man, if they want to keep their jobs they pretty much have to stick to what they're told to say, I'm sure you don't want them out of a job right ?
AW should improve its services I agree, but you can't fight with a call-center team that work on weekly goals and fixed information - My cousin heads a department at one of these things and another works as a team leader so I kinda know this. It's mostly one-way info from the manufacturer to them.

"I call them up almost everyday too see if they done anything to fix it, and according to them, they are not fixing anything"
That's all they're ever gonna say because they're just low level CS, I do not think AW updates every member of the runnings in each department - Each one seems to work independently from where I'm sitting. My guess is the Tech Dept would most likely be concentrating on doing what they're supposed to, maybe only informing higher-ups, while the rest wait for finalised updates.

I don't think they'd be of any help to you as you don't own one or have ordered one.. Which kinda sucks but that's the way things are *Shrugs*

It is indeed a horrible cycle that some owners have to go through and AW-Steve's non-existant replies to you is less than admirable.
I'd suggest we all just move from posting here to posting on the AlienNetwork page - That would leave room for the newcomers to ask their own questions and allow them time to look at all that's passed instead of having to keep abreast of only the latest (in some cases repetitive) topics.

Note: I am posting without reviewing and will edit as neccessary

 

Firstn is the man. Firstn for president.

The true question here is... What is AW doing about the problem? Did Alienware stopped production to fix it? Did AW even acknowledged the problem officially? AW... JUST DO SOMETHING!!!

Obviously all of us are going to react to what's happening in dramatically different ways. Funny enough, it seems that the people that want to have the M15x (and do not own it yet) are the ones that have the strongest reactions. Owners complain and are upset, but they don't seem to be very active in trying to come up with something tactable for us to throw at AW and push them towards the right direction.

I think we would ALL really win with a generalized and strong movement. Make no mistake... this is nothing against AW as a company. I'm sure all of us here would like to have a AW and love their AW. I want to bloody have a M15x to love it and treasure it and have it by my side for a long time. But I think no one should accept what's going on. No one should agree with AW's costumer policies, lies, delays... but most importantly, to the fact that MOST of the laptops delivered are defective and not operational. Does anyone doubts that if all the M15Xs were great, no one would even bother with the poor CS or the waiting times? No way...

No one (that is responsible and Human minded a bit) can really say... My world is pink, so I don't care if the rest is gray. Because that's what the positive reviews do, that's what AW groupies do, that's what un-informed people do. They will say "The M15x is great!" Why? "Because it's great!". That's just closing your eyes to FACTS. This is a completely legit "movement" (or effort) to achieve a very clear goal. Make AW accept there's a mistake, comply and ACT. It's time, once and for all, to see AW doing it. If it's retrieving all M15x and stop all M15x production, so be it. But it's not acceptable that they are doing what they are doing, and selling for such high prices, non working systems that are poorly badly built from scratch.

As we say back home (and I think it's actually a quite universal saying), "destroy to build uppon the foundations, a greater building".

Go on Firstn and all the others like you. It's in your power to make them change. You will have all my support (obviously, excluding firing all the innocent CS. )

 

My theory:

I think AW is in a tough situation. They are a 'boutique' computer company that charges high (but not over the top) prices on specialized products. They've hit a sweet spot w/ respect to price/marketing/performance that has made them grow very quickly w/ many customers (i think chaz mentioned this).

But because they play in the 'high performance' arena, they are dealing w/ a knowedgable customer base. At the same time, CS is by nature a low paying position with limited to no knowledge about anything other than what 'management' (prob like AW-Steve) tells them to say. So you have a situation where you have LOTS of customers who know a ton about computers and CS who doesn't. This situation is not ideal.

A solution is even tougher. People who know and understand computers would never take a CS job... they have skills and knowledge that would command higher salaries and better positions. Thats why you have things like 'roswell team' or whatever they're called... these guys know what they're talking about, but also probably get paid a ton more.

Companies like Falcon NW and Voodoo charge SOOOOO much that their customer base is much smaller... so they can deal w/ CS volume. Their 'roswell team' probably covers each and every customer.

It seems to me that AW needs to focus on communication and training of their CS employees. Their employees need to understand their products much better (and in the process probably have to get paid more). Their CS guys also have to be better informed. The fact that some people know whats going on and others have no idea is not good.

Again, this is just my theory... i could be completely wrong w/ whats going on over there.

 

good said mr_fro. thats exact.

 

Just letting you know that if you change the thermal compound on your M15X. That does void your warranty. I remember AW-steve saying that somewhere else.

 

Firstn20,

I don't have any of your emails in my inbox. When exactly did you send them? Are you sure you are sending them to the right address? If you have any questions I suggest you PM me as your e-mails might not be getting through.

 

how about xotic pc's "roswell team"? lol

 

Please check your "spam" mail as well, Steve. It's possible that the emails were filtered into the SPAM category.

This has happened to me a few times...

 

[email protected] <---- thats the e-mail I sent the e-mails too.

Sorry about the venting guys, I just blew up lastnight when I read those bias reviews in AW website. I know its business but its dishonest and ASW knows it. They are making fraudulent misrepresenting on important facts to the buyers. The warrenty protection and consumer protection act protects the consumer with these types of deceptive practices. I really just want the notebook without all this B.S, and its been weeks now since aw-frank came on the forums with a so called "fix" and nothing came about since then. People receiving their new systems are still having problems, people who already had the problems did a refund (with the 15% restocking fee) and finally the people who send their system back for repairs still did not get it back yet. Although there was someone who sent their system back and got it back still downclocking (I'll search for the name."

So its a lose-lose situation for me, I really need a notebook right now and it has to be portable with a powerful graphics card, and thats the m15x, but AW themselves are keeping me from purchasing it..

EDIT: Check this out guys, this is an example of fraudulent misrepresentations:

http://www.alienware.com/product_de...0326.asp&SysCode=PC-LT-AREA51M15X-AI1#reviews

here are some quotes:

"Bios Upgrade:

Upgrading the bios is a breeze and the new public bios, which can be found here with instructions, takes seconds to install and fixes the overheating issues that were previously being reported. However, all new m15x notebooks will have the current bios already installed. The upgrade is only intended for people who had their notebooks shipped before March 26, 2008."

And:

"Heat and Noise

Upon first getting the system, I do what I always do when I first get a notebook to test. I logon to Steam, and start downloading the games I am going to test on them. The m15x has a terrific cooling system. Although it does warm, after all it has the most powerful mobile graphics card on the market in it, but all the heat is diverted directly out the back. It gets a bit warm by the Multimedia keys but there is barely any head coming up from the keyboard where it would be most annoying to users. The fan noise is low compared to other gaming notebooks."

What a joke really...

 

My M15X is hopefully being delivered tomorrow - i have returned 2 DELL M1730 Due to the promise of "A beast" from DELL ... it was not a beast maybe a dog or a cat - no beast.

I really hope AW is not going down the same road.... Users will launch a S H I T STORM - and then maybe just maybe AW will escape in their spacecraft ... ahhh!! forgot it cracked, overheated and could not start due to hyphenate state .... he he!

US Companies - Learn from the europeans - test the products before releasing them - the release of purely tested products will backfire...

 

I feel you, firstn20. I'm thinking of changing my order to an AW desktop instead or downgrading the video card to an 8700 before it's too late. The last thing I want is another m5550.

But, AW did say that they are working on the dc'ing problem. So I don't know.

 

New bios coming! It will make your fans spin till the laptop lift off! Now seriously... I'm very happy with that! I will give it a couple of weeks and then... guess what? I'm ORDERING IT! Men... I'm happy!

 

Yea, I saw it!! This rocks! All of sudden my worries are gone. I'm going to stick with the m15x since AW will fix it sooner or later.

 

Well... I will wait a couple of weeks to let all the big guys do their tests.
One thing has to be said... if people rock the boat, protest, scream... AW is going to try to fix the problem. That's really praise worthy, it has to be said. Sad that costumers have to be guinea pigs, but hell... at least you get a nice looking laptop.
The thing is... I am crossing my fingers and I hope that this problem can be solved via software. Well... time will tell. I was always sceptical about the bios updated, but we have to give them a chance. Maybe this time the fans will speed so fast, everyone will start complaining about the noise!
A fact... people do like to complain a lot. Phew...
AW... Well done!

 

Well let's wait for the 'new' reviews first. But yes, well done AW, atleast you are trying

 

Wow that's great news. Now lets try this BIOS. Everyone with an m15x please try it. I don't have mine yet still waiting for my replacement
Lets see if this poll will change from 4-20 to 24-0 (Hopefully)

 

What happened to great American quality? You get things made in China - and still think it is as good as MADE IN USA ... NOT!

For the price you are asking for the M15X it should be PERFECT in every way. What is a fair sentence - 15% money back AUTOMATIC? The next AW 15" laptop 40% discount?

Seriously .... is SORRY the only thing AW are going to give? Customers paid real money UPFRONT!

WALK THE WALK ....

 

He he seems some people are really becoming upset with AW. I guess the time has come to deliver or watch the sales fall. I hope they can get this figured out, let alone of deliver a newer decent driver.

 

Dude, almost everything is made in China now. My iPhone, MacBook Air, XBOX 360, NETGEAR Router, G5 mouse, HDTV, Logitech Speakers... Are all made in China.

 

They just released a new BIOS which shows that they do listen to their customers. They did WALK THE WALK.

 

Easy dhoang, nobody haven't really had any serious testing time as of yet. Many of us figured the Downclocking was fixed before. Only to be dissapointed.

On a side note for things to have gotten so bad before they produced anything is not what I would call "walk the walk". AW have offended many customers with the release and lack of support for the M15x. I strongly feel that only once the issues have been fixed, and how AW responds to the post situations overall will describe if this company will walk the walk. They have alot to make up for, even if someone is a die hard AW fanboy, they need to make ammends.

AW now is your chance to revive whatever little bit of respect I personnaly have left for this company, don't blow it now. Oh AW if your listening where the heck is my HAT.

 

heh seriously... I mean, you (Alienware) sent me a letter apologizing for the fact you didn't send it with my system, so where is it now

 

Hahaha I actually forgot I got one of those letters too. LMAO.

 

Let me guess, they both forgot to send a $3 cap? Wait it's ebcause its going to cost $5 to ship lol I gotta say, that hat looks pretty damns weet and I would be really upset if they didn't send one to me. And btw does alienware send a micro fiber cloth for the laptop?

 

Well for having a system since Feb and it being in the shop and or unsuable pretty much since I got the darn thing. A 5 dollar shipping cost should be the least of thier worries. LOL.

I never got any microfibre cloth. See got screwed again.. hahaha.

 

NO they dun. But u can use the slip cover provided.

 

Firstn20 can you split the poll in 2 parts and try to get some infos about the ppl with the downclock/heat issue solved after the new 32bios? So we can get an idea if it works ?