Power Inverter for Alienware

I'm about to head camping over the Aussie summer and I plan on taking my Alien to see the sites and sounds around the country (several thousands of kilometres).

Most of my camping locations will have some form of electricity to keep the beast going.

However - some parts of the journey will require my Alien but I will be without electricity (this may include movie nights in the bush, times when I will need to empty the contents of my digital SLR etc etc).

The battery on here lasts long enough to do some things - but in order to run it continuously when in the car I thought of getting an inverter.

The questions in regards to this are as follows:

1) Is it ok to be a modified sine wave inverter? Or does it need to be a full sine wave?

2) Is there a risk to the Alien in any-way-what-so-ever?

3) Does the transformer (power-pack) require x amount of wattage? If so - how much?

Any other things I should know? What should I avoid? What should I look for in an inverter?

Thanks kindly for reading and taking time to answer

 

the watt rating of the pack is writen on it how ever your actual consumsion depend on what you are doing so it might be under it most of the time and for any 17" alien any inverter would have to be preatty beefy and the car might not be able to provide enough watt for the alien to work

 

Thanks granyte...

Firstly the wattage is not written on the power pack.

However

Assuming it suggests inputs of 240V and 3.5A then the as power (wattage) is V x I then:

240V x 3.5A = 840W

Now I have seen a 1000W inverter which is perfectly sufficient for this. So that most likely answers that question.

The car has a 35Amp Hour battery (plus it's chargeable) that's 10 hours of alien computing without even turning the car on... I think that's sufficient too.

So the real questions remain:

1) Does it need to be a full sine wave - can it be a modified sine?

2) Is there any risk?

Thanks again.



But the very high current is a worry - this is why I am asking for an expert opinion.

Someone who has actually done this before.

 

This may seem like alot of extra cords, but if you're plugging a laptop into a converter... I'd put it on a power strip as well. The rest I know was already answered above.

But FYI, lol.... camping is supposed to be CAMPING not computing, LOL! j/k j/k

 

Thanks Mavericke...

I do camp and when I camp I don't compute...

This however is for 5 weeks and during a la nina weather cycle.

Cairns and the far north are in for up to 6 tropical cyclones this year. Although it's an estimate, they've pretty much guaranteed flooding.

I think camping in all conditions is a huge amount of fun... But having the back up - is even better.

I also take a HUGE amount of photos (a hobby I love - check out http://www.redbubble.com/people/slim6y/portfolio/recent+art )

And as the Alien is my most suitable computer for these photos then I guess I need a suitable inverter. If I have it - I may as well watch movies too...

Some nights I will be stuck (literally) in my car by myself... I think a movie wouldn't go astray!

 

Any inverter over 150w should be connected directly to the vehicle battery, using a cigarette lighter plug won't give you the power you need. If you plan on buying a 1000w inverter you're definitely going to need it attached directly to your battery.

 

While that does make sense - doesn't your cigarette lighter plug connect 'directly' to the battery?

I will check into that though - as they don't look to difficult to wire in... It's more a matter of space required!

 

What Freelancer said is correct. You're gonna need to plug it straight into the battery. The lighter socket is also designed for a max of 10A, which is a no no for the M17x. I spent a good few days messing around trying to find a way to make it work through the lighter socket, but no cigar.

 

Nice pun...

Can you tell me though what you did do to make it work???

And 10A max should be enough for the M17x - the power pack suggests an input of 3.5A at 240V...

I have checked - and yes the 1000W inverter requires hardwiring... So I will look into that.

I assume (as I require at least 800W by the looks of things) I'll need a 1000W inverter.

 

As said above it will not work through cigarrete lighter because of the wiring and fusing is usually around 10A or so. That means about 120W (12V x 10A)max draw from it, which will not support the full use of the laptop.

Also, I think your math is off for your expectations of how long you can run off your car battery without running the car.

840W = 12V x 70A, so at 70A of draw you would have 1/2 of battery life, and then it would be so dead it would not even start. So you will have to run the car basically all the time. That is assuming 100% efficiency (all power going in is going out) which is of course impossible. So maybe 20 mins would be more realistic.

I'm pretty sure that it's actually 120V x 3.5A which is still 420W, or 35A draw which is still only an hour before your battery is totally dead. (again actually less because the inverter is only so effeciant, not 100%)

It's just too much power to take from a car battery without something charging it.

*However*

All above was just to show the max requirement that you could possibly need like the example you gave. However, if assuming you're not needing SLI, can turn everything to lower power mode you may only draw 100W (maybe less???) so then you could get by with a smaller inverter and then try your cigarrate lighter. If the laptop does anything to draw too much current you will be popping fuses however!

If you absolutely have to take the beast along, then I would suggest only running the laptop off battery, then recharge the laptop using the cigarrete lighter with the laptop off, that should work fine, but limits you to an hour or so use at a time plus downtime to recharge.

Sorry to the long explaination. Also for the nitpickers out there I left out a ton of details for the sake of simplicity (efficiency explanations etc). Good luck!

 

Again, you are confusing 240V AC input current with your cars DC current at 12V, it doesn't mean the same thing. See my post above.

3.5A @ 240V = 70A @ 12V

Please get someone to help you with this, if you have a friend whom knows electronics that would be of great help! It's very hard to explain everything through a forum post.

 

Yeah I didn't even think of that. The biggest issue is the gauge of wire used for the lighter. It's like a thin 18g wire and that's on the highend of my guess... your inverter using 1000w for the m17X, you'll want to hook it up to the battery for sure.

The only other way would be to modify your ciggarette lighter... and it could be done, but depending on the car and your knowledge of mechanic work and car wiring... I wouldn't attempt it.

I'm a car guy myself and intend on being able to take my m17x pretty much anywhere even if stuck on the trail.... I never thought about modding my cig lighter. But if I were to go through all that trouble, I'd get a higher end alternator and the toughest inverter I could find and mount it under the hood so that it's always connected to the battery. Of course, I'd mount a switch that looked like it belonged in the car for the inverter - you wouldn't want it running all the time. Then, I would literally setup a plug under the dash or somehwere hidden but easily accessable that woud look just like an indoor outlet.

Dude, you just seriously opened up a whole new can of worms for me and my ride... extra points if you've ever even heard of it. I drive a 1985 AMC Eagle... fully loaded and modded out the rear. This thing is a tank and she's only just begun... haha...hahaha...muahahahahaha!

 

Yeah, even with an uber battery.... running an m17x on max load... you'd probably get a few hours out of your battery plus the inverter. But you can always start the car if needed, lol.... you may want to consider bringing one of those portable car "jumpers" that has a battery with even power to jump your car.... I have a feeling you're going to need it, lol!

1000w inverter hooked up to battery....
Good surge protector....
Play as much as you want.....

If you're watching a movie turn power settings on low for the PC and then run the car for about 10m when the movie is over.

Don't fall asleep watching the movie or you're gonna wake up with a dead battery, lol!

 

Thanks dajohu....

That was a good answer - but... I'm not 100% sure on a few points.

The first point is the current draw...

The power pack specifically is designed for 240V (Australians work on 240V @ 50Hz) and 3.5A. That's what it will draw (forgive me if I am incorrect, and I am happy for you to point me in the right direction with as much technical detail as you wish).

The transformer in the battery pack has an output of 19.5V and 12.3A.

So maximum input at 240V and 3.5A is around the 900W mark (slightly less) with an output of around the 240W mark....

I realise I can't use the cigarette lighter socket - that's a given because of the construction of the inverters.

But if it was hardwired to the car...

Inverters in Australia up the voltage to 240V @ 50Hz.

The AW transformer then steps down the voltage and ups the current... There's obviously other stuff going on there too because it's not a simple 12:1 ratio by any means.

So this is where I lose it a little.

So I guess what you're saying is in order to get from 12V to 240V from the battery you require a huge current?

But that (in my mind) is what they're designed for - though it does mean you're correct of course for the amp-hours... Which will mean the car will need to be running in order to watch a movie.... Which however would give me air conditioning too (haha)...

I think I will just leave the inverter for the AW and just plug in at various locations to keep the battery charged. That seems to make sense to me.

Thanks again for your comments...

Would love to hear from someone who has successfully used an inverter (preferably for 240V) and worked their AW (M17x).

 

I'm no car guy either unfortunately... I drive an 03 Holden Acclaim... Not even a 4WD - but I take it to some of the most remote locations in the country...

Wiring up the inverter, switch etc is an awesome idea!!!

When you're finished there - come over to Oz and wire mine up to bro!!!

Then we can watch Transformers on the AW exactly where it was filmed hahahaha

 

You don't need to talk down to me man... I can get it...

I agree about the current draw - will be large...

It's actually not that hard to explain at all... If I know how transformers work then I must have a basic idea of how the EM fields in an inverter work too....

I didn't account for it - as it's saturday, my brain's day off - but I do understand it - even when put in technical terms.

I guess that's why I don't mind how far you go with your explanation... the more the merrier I say!

i do thank you though for answering... It has made me re-think the whole inverter scenario and I'll go back to 'real camping'

A little boring on those very wet stormy nights - but I might get some good photos of lightning instead

 

Hey I am so sorry, I truely did not mean for it to come out that way! Please accept my appology.

It's 1:30AM here and I should be getting to bed, have a early mountain bike ride in the morning. Or maybe it's the Jack Daniels talking

 

haha... Jd's... you got some bad taste there...

Wasn't offended - just a little worried that you might have thought I was incapable...

Perhaps I'll come on here later after a bit of Glen Fiddich and tell you about some real mountains to bike down hehe...

Have fun...

PS - try and wire up a dynamo to power your M17x while mountain biking....

 

Looks to me like you just need to buy a few more SD cards.

 

haha... It's so true...

However, I still can't watch movies on my phone or camera (effectively)... The alien is built for it!

But - I will be in civilisation for some of the time - so I guess I will digitally entertain myself then (with every Ren and Stimpy episode ever made)...

 

70A really? This sounds high to me... anyone actually measure? Typical fuses in the car are <35A and that includes large fans and fuel pumps.

Even your house breaker usually max's at 60A and many a lan party operated on powerstrips....

: :

 

Well that's using the hypothetical max draw of 840w in Slim6y's example.

70A is nothing, car audio amps can pull hundreds of amps. You have to get high output alternators and multiple batteries just to keep up. Even then you may not be able to run very long (just long enough to win a DB competition ).

That's the problem with a cars 12v system, it takes so much current to get any amount of power out of it! If they move to 24V systems like the truckers use then the current requirement would be cut in half, or your could get double the power with the same current.

60A at 120V is 7200 watts (60 x 120)

7200 watts in a cars 12V system would be about 600A for that same LAN party!

 

aha! ok. Would still be curious what a real meter says about the in car setup.

 

I'm an over the road truckdriver and we don't have 24v systems. 12v just like cars, we just have a larger amp system. As for a inverter anything larger then a 300w will not work in the cigarette lighter. Unless you enjoy the smell of melting plastic. If I remember right I used a 275w/peak 350w inverter to run my laptop for a while before I install the 3000w under my bunk. Just remember to turn it off when u aren't running the vehicle. Even without it pulling a load they will drain batteries pretty fast. If my APU or truck isn't running my 3000w will drain all 5 of my batteries in about 6 hours even when not under a load. Most major truckstops sell inverters especially for laptop and a few are made for cigarette lighters, But anything larger then a 400w will have to be hardwired to the battery. Any make sure to use the required gauged wire to hardwire otherwise you'll melt the insulation around the wire. And I would check with the cars manufacture- to see if the ECM is protected from the sine wave from the inverter. Some cars and even semi trucks engine computers have been destroyed from the sine wave from inverters.

 

I've been reading on 4WD and camping forums about dodgy inverters (putting me off even more):

Australian 4WD Action | Forum - View topic - SAFE INVERTERS ??????

So I think I can live without....

And as for the question regarding current:

Power (measured in Watts) is Voltage multiplied by Current

P = VI

If V is lower then to get the same power you need to up the current.

In Australia Voltage is 240V

This would mean to get the same power you NEED 20 times the current!

So for a mere 300W you will require:

300 = 12 x I

I = 25A

So inverters aren't 100% efficient either - so even more current can be lost to get that power!

Current through a resistor (such as a wire) produces heat.... Heat produces fires.... Fires produce dead people.

Bad inverter = Dead people

And no one wants that (really)...

As two things in the physical world scare me... Gas and Electricity... I can't stand pressurised gas... 9kg of gas is a hell of a lot of gas!!!!

A room filled of gas put into a cylinder the size of my laptop bag... not so good in my view... so that scares me...

But electricity scares me more...

You can't see it... but boy do you feel it...

So far in my life I have been lucky not to be electrocuted. Though I have had numerous shocks... Including one off of my friends Amiga 500 (yes, you heard me, I'm talking about that 1MB of ram and the most powerful gaming computer of its time!!!).

I was lucky in the fact that I picked up the power-box with one hand and not two - or I wouldn't be asking about inverters today...

So on remembering my close brush with electricity I have decided that better to not tempt fate!!!

Steer clear of the 1000W inverters!

Plus I might add - WHY haven't people done this before??? I thought there'd be 1000s of AW fans with inverters... I was figuring it would be a staple... So... No!!! Not for me!

 

Hey, just wanted to let you know. I use to be a Recreational Vehicle Tech installing tons of inverters, solar chargers, etc. From personal experience a small 500W inverter should be enough to run JUST your laptop, a 750w would leave you room to charge a cell phone or something else. Yes you will have to hardwire to your car battery. As for longevity of your car battery before charging it I would say using it overnight would be perfectly safe, anything longer than that and you will need to run your car for anywhere from 15minutes to 30 minutes. Now for the modified sine wave or pure sine wave, while the laptop will run from a modified sine wave, your power supply will emit a small electronic hum or whistle as modified sine wave inverters are not considered "clean" power. If used for an extended period of time you could possibly burn out your power supply, why I don't know. After 3 months of extended use on an inverter mine fried. A pure sine wave inverter stops the hum but is a very expensive solution. So in the end its up to you. If you have any questions as for specific products please feel free to PM me and I'll help you out in any way I can.

 

Great answer - thank you for your comment!

Very helpful. Though I am still erring on the side of caution and not installing an inverter into my car!

Nothing worse than trying to start a car in the middle of the Australian outback with no way of push starting!

I think I will stick with powered camping sites for charging and use of laptops!

I have all my stays sorted out - and I will have electricity at most over-night stays. So it's all good!

 

Alrighty, if you or anyone else, has any further questions regarding inverters, solar panels, converters, batteries, etc I'm more than happy to help, just pm me.

 

Wow, lots of good info... I started pulling my dash apart yesterday looking into the idea of installing an inverter. Even with the risks... I think it will come in handy for emergency issues if nothing else. And besides, I do not intend on using my laptop in my car often if ever... I just want to know the option is there if needed. Plus, if I'm and about... and had one, I could charge power tools with my car if needed. Very cool... though simpler for power tools would be on-board air compressors.

Anyways, I'll be sure to look into all the safety stuff before I attempt anything crazy.

Slim6y, dude, I can watch Transformers over and over any time of the day, lol... don't tempt me. I've been begging for an adventure for quite some time now! Hop in a car that you shouldn't drive across town and take it across the country just to test the limits... I love it. Got kiddos now... I try things a bit more safely these days.

If I do anything with the Inverter... I'll be sure to post a thread somewhere on here so you can find it.

 

Thanks Mavericke - you sound like you've got your work cut out for you

When done - link to it via this thread so i'll find it (I'll get an email).

 

Simply posting to test your email for you now.... LOL!

If/when I do the mod... I'll post it. My guess is that lots of guys will be pretty interested in it and since I've done a gazillion car-mod write-ups on my car club forums... I'll have links to those builds so that you can do the mod yourself. Though it's hard because all cars are different... I expect my idea to be rather universal because the Inverter will be completely setup as a stand alone mod.... meaning it shouldn't be connected to anything in your car besides the battery and then find the spot in your dash to run the outlet... or build a fiberglass box and put in your center consoler... or trunk... or wherever and it'll be detailed, but vague enough for use in multiple applications.