September possible new Alienware launch

All good things... I will add to that wish list...

1. No BIOS flash protection
2. No artificial power handling limitations
3. Socketed desktop K and X CPU options
4. Single and dual-GPU MXM options
5. More than ample PSU for overclocking (dual 330W or single 660W)
6. Bring back at least one large form factor DTR

Basically, bring back at least one model that former Alienware owners can be interested in, with no stupid crippling monkey-business going on. In other words, do the right thing and restore the basis and foundation for Alienware's claim to fame.

I don't believe they are capable of doing these things. Something happened internally with decision-making leadership at the company and all of the nonsense began with the crippled Haswell models. It has since gone from bad to terrible, and none of the product shortcomings can be fixed by end-users any more. As @johnksss pointed out... they listened and used our suggestions on what to improve against us, then they went 180° in the opposite direction.

 

Yes it is unfortunate, but that only applies to a smaller group of enthusiasts who actually care about this stuff like we do vs the masses who are fine with the stock configuration of a gaming laptop. I'm not trying to achieve desktop performance on my AW lol. That's not the point. If I wanted desktop performance I'll buy a DTR accordingly, but for the games and tasks that I do, it doesn't need a DTR to accomplish what needs to be done. I am also not interested in achieving synthetic benches, only to prove what? Results obtain from unrealistic scenarios? Most people don't need an extreme OC to play their games as they run just fine (for most people) as it is.

I am well aware of the limitations on AW's, however, AW's are not the only ones with issues as all the other brands, including the DTR Clevo's have issues of their own. Had Clevo's not have the ability to flash the BIOS, the owners would be SOL. The point is that not everyone wants to be okay with the stock set up and prefer to push their computer to the limits. Despite the limitations on the current AW's, I'm perfectly fine with what I am able to achieve for the weight that I need to pull, all in a form factor that I enjoy owning.

True a lot of people do not know what AW's used to be about, but even for the new comers entering into the gaming laptop world, an AW 15R2/17R3 is a fine choice. I do agree the M18XR2 was a beast, however, for most people, they don't need a monster like that to suit their needs. Of course this subject is very subjective, but it is what it is...

That is one heck of a dream list, which I am all for as well. It's true all AW needs to do is to bring back a DTR variant for us enthusiasts. I'll be one of those first in line to buy one.

Dell/AW went downhill after it went private. Generally, when a company goes private, they often get more stingy. What we are seeing is the byproduct of that change from a few years ago, since the change in the corporation status.

IMO, an MXM GPU would be the closest thing that may be realistic on the new refresh. Even that's a stretch, but who knows...we'll have to wait and see...

 

I believe the AW17R3/15R2 can use 330w, whether or not it can draw over 240W is another question.

 

And who will fix a fully locked down Bios from Dell? Maybe more locked than ever before!!

 

At least we can agree on what's missing. There is no reason for that to be a dream list. It already exists the the P570WM and P870DM-G and Alienware could make at least one laptop that would put both of those to shame. But, they won't do it because they organization is rotting from the head down and no longer have a drive to be the best. That's really sad.

Please understand that neither my, nor anyone else's, contempt for BGA garbage is a personal attack. We're all (both sides) belligerent because of the complete absence of acceptable options for one side. When there is nothing left that we (overclocking and extreme hardware enthusiasts) can actually be interested in, what's left can only be viewed by us as garbage. We've always viewed it as garbage, but it never mattered because it never affected us. Calling it anything else other than filth, trash and garbage is sugar-coating a severe problem and sweeping it under the rug.

BGA has been around a long time and it's not going away. It has a place in world, but not in my world. I've never cared about it until my option to own something better, in a brand that I was very passionate about for good reasons, was eliminated. I've moved on and I don't need Alienware any more, but our BGA-bashing agenda has nothing to do with those that are willing to accept it. Our purpose is to bring enough negative attention to the problem that the cancer doesn't spread any further and eliminate literally the only remaining acceptable option we have left in the world (Clevo P870DM-G). Being willing to accept it makes us part of the problem rather than part of the solution. This is a battle for the hearts and minds of enthusiasts and an appeal to the intelligence of people that call themselves "hardcore gamers" and not about fanboys that think BGA is tolerable.

 

the easiest way to fix AWs mistakes is to go back and resell clevos

 

I appreciate the clarification. Yes, I know that it is frustrating and it becomes aggravating when the choices are limited. Perhaps a petition of some kind would make more noise for us to be heard to spark Dell to be proactive with releasing a DTR.

Regarding my defense against bga owners, I am specifically making reference to the comments and remarks that are being directed at the bga owner for buying a bga machine, because that is very different than making a general remark about advocating against bga's. I hope that clarifies my intention. Send me a link to a petition and I along with many bga owners would be the first to sign it.

 

But not with Dell's own Firmvare They will manage to lock it completely Even @Prema will struggle

 

Sure, it's fine for others and of course I won't knock their choice to purchase one, but then their are better machines floating around now. Heck, even acer can beat out an AW nowadays (And that is on stock). I Never thought I would be saying that!

At least they still have the best rma service.....

 

I don't think there is any hope left for Alienware at this point. Some of us have already had discussions with their top brass, and as @johnksss has accurately pointed out, they used it against us. A petition would just generate more mumbo-jumbo and lame excuses from Alienware leadership, who would have us believe the path they are on is the right one.

Stop and think about it... voting with the wallet is the only solution. They are in business to make money and if we deny them the ability to make money they will either get with the program or go out of business. They need to do one or the other. What better way to generate attention than to highlight the folly of buying BGA and creating an environment where peer pressure and avoidance of product ridicule, if not just plain old fashion common sense, would stop enough (not all) people from buying a gamer-boy laptop that has a soldered CPU and/or GPU? Locking arms and singing Kumbaya is what they're expecting us to do, so we can't. We need to bring division to the ranks and create a feces storm for all of the OEMs peddling BGA filth as if it were something special and making it the only option. We are not enemies of one another... our enemy is disposable crippled BGA filth and, more accurately, the fact that this is the only item available on the menu.

Companies that choose to go down the BGA-only road and only sell crippled products deserve to suffer great financial harm. And, I'm talking about all of them, not just Alienware. If Intel only makes socketed desktop CPUs, then I want to see MSI and ASUS offering socketed desktop CPUs and MXM GPUs in their product lines as well. Unless we punch them hard enough in their wallets to make them pull their heads out, this is not going to get better.

 

Maybe Acer will be the new Alienware in the future Mr. Azor has to work hard if Alienware shall beat ACER's new gaming Books

 

Haha, well with Clevo coming out with a Skylake mobo offering and if it has a 4K option, then that opens up some options.

I really am optimistic about the R4 refresh though. Whether it remains bga or not, with Dell's unbeatable warranty service, I'd be happy with a Sky/Kaby Lake w/ 1080M offering. If we get surprised to find that it will feature a MXM GPU, that would be one step forward...

Without Dell's warranty, I would not be as optimistic or comfortable in owning a bga machine.

At the end of the day, electronics are electronics and a socketed mobo is just as vulnerable as a bga mobo. I fully realize the obvious of being able to swap out the CPU/GPU, however, think about it...even with the current socketed DTR's the warranty is no where near as good as Dell's...

Here's the reason why I am not complaining about bga as much as I would love a socketed mobo:

Alienware: Best warranty in the industry. Fried mobo? Oh well...swap. Done. Keyboard issue? Swap. Done. Battery? Display? Swap. Done. 1-2-3. A-B-C. You can extend your warranty for not that much dosh.

DTR companies: Not sure you can really say the same to match Dell's service. It'd be interesting to hear some warranty service experiences with some of these companies.

The point is, although Dell offers unmatched warranty service, in one way if bga's crapped out that much then Dell would obviously lose money from all the warranty repairs (mobo's) so heck...another reason for all bga owners to OC the crap out of their machines, granted that they are covered. Let's drain their bank this way too....I know some of us have already LOL...

 

You are sure that Dell will use 1080 graphics? 1070 is the successor to 980m, but with a bit higher TDP.

 

You know acer has peg mode right?

 

It's only logical that they would. It would be illogical if they did not. Companies that don't include that functionality are illogical and disconnected from their customers.

As I pointed out very early on in this thread, the depth of their incompetence goes far beyond BGA. BGA is merely one of the major symptoms underscoring how messed up they really are.

 

Yeah and Aw use fully optimus. No G-sync even with external screen Not that G-sync is important but you have to pay extra if you want it Aka G/A with a graphics card!!

 

And, if you want it and they don't have it, shame on them for making bad engineering choices. I also don't care about G-Sync, but if I wanted it and it was important enough, if couldn't get it I'd be upset about having to choose a brand that I don't want to buy in order to get that feature.

 

Yeah, you can disable G -sync if you don't want it, but you can't enable it if your laptop doesn't have it

 

By the way, I know the regional Operations Manager for Dell Europe and when I asked why Alienware went this way with BGA when they are the best company that can give us socketed hardware, he told me plain and simple is because people stopped buying Alienwares as they simply upgrade their current laptops, thus, they switched their models to BGA to force people to buy a new laptop everytime something new comes out for those who want to have the latest and greatest always.

 

And then Dell hoped for better sales to hardcore power enthusiasts?

 

It's working

 

Yeah if you ask Azor then its everyone else fault.

Blaming NVIDIA for bga Gpus
Blaming Intel for bga Cpus

Its surprising that some weird magical way Clevo still has MXM gpus?

As for the build quality I heard a lot of comments about much worse quality starting from Bga models. Plastic covers, screen bleeding etc.

 

Here comes a long post .

And this all because I came with a statement that the 980 in non MXM machines are performing as advertised with proof.

Then do not insult others with bullcrap like " kool-aid drinkers" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drink the kool-aid\

Dont insult our opinion because it is not the same as yours

Funny because Nvidia itself state that the TDP is 165watt on these GPU's. TDP is not the same as powerdraw. The "200watt" board just has a more beefy power delivery system for more overclocking. So know your stuff. This goes for the desktop version as well.

Sources on the TDP of the 980
Desktop: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8526/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-review/7
Laptop: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9649/nvidia-gtx-980-in-notebooks

Statements again from hearsay.

Read my the information above your quote.

That the board is made to support 200watt does not mean the chip will pull that. That would be the same as saying that a custom 980 desktop board with more power phases automatically turns the desktop 980 chip into a 250watt monster because it has more power phases that support a higher power draw. That is not how it works.

Regarding the heatsinks. I still have to come across an uneven heatsink. Heatpipes ar enot that rigid you know. After screwing it down it doesnt have enough strength to warp the heatsink away from the chip die. DId you actually come across such a situation yourself?

You jsut want to see it like that. The problem is that is your ideal vision. Any statistic graduate would pull the legs from under your chair because this is piss poor thinking. Maybe these laptops just didn't sell that well since they came so late before the 10XX series arrive. Stop making baseless assumptions and think that it is the truth. There are just not many people that wish to spend near 3000 euro's and more on a laptop system that performs like a 1000 euro desktop machine. You are the niche of a niche. Gaming laptops are statistically already not that popular because of the form factor and price. While you promote even a much more expensive option.

 

We all know very well why Dell went fully BGA. Not because of the lack of socket hardware!!

 

Yo are part of such a small group that they dont make money of you. Clevo doesn't either. DIdn't Sager state themselves that the DTR machines aren't selling that well. That is why MXM boards are so friggin expensive for what they offer.

Because screen bleeding has anything to do with the laptop manufacturers themselves perse. The tolerances are so small with 4K panels that any amount of flex causes some screen bleed. No FHD equipped laptop in the whole Alienware range has a screen bleed issue with some exceptions. So it is not because of the design.

The 4K panels with glass layer bezels do eliminate some of the issues with 4K panels since they are glued on top and eliminate the flex from the bezels that touch screen screen sides.

 

Nvidia's reference design is 165w I know. So all OEM's use the same base/boost clock on 980 in their laptop models? They follow gladly the reference design from Nvidia?

All different 980 versions Overclock about equally good? Even with mod vBios? I know som cards of same model series can Overclock better than other, but this isn't what I mean!!

So shared heatsink is the preferred cooling system today? You know why this Crippled cooling system is preferred in thin slim light lapBook's?

I have to spend about € 3000 if I want an ok Aw17R3 here at home. I had to pay more for this BGABOOK than what I payd for my P870 BGA-KILLER!! And you said that this is to costy? I know.., I wouldn't payd that money for an Aw machine!! Rather say I wouldn't payd a single dime for that machine!!

 

Any discussion threads about upcoming Alienwares, speculations etc is virtually impossible in this forum before it gets locked downed by a mod

 

We arent talking about overclocking....again! We where talking about if other laptops could run the 980 as intended and they do. Having more VRM's is not a guarantee your overclock will be good. If you have a poor GPU than it does not matter the VRM's can pull more than 200 watt. It is sitll a 165watt designed TDP GPU.

Again nothing wrong with shared heatpipes as long if the heatsinks are big enough to cool it. Please read up on thermal dynamics a bit.

Also I checked the prices on an AW17R3 in your country, It is not 3000 euro's it is only because you chose to use every upgrade offered by Dell. If you would buy the SSD's etc separately it Would cost near 2000 euro only. Kunshan just offered cheap upgrades (because they are a component shop?). THe base machine price is loads cheaper with Alienware

I would never pay 3000 for any laptop myself. If it only performs about 30% of the GPU performance I could get in a desktop for the same amount of money.

But yeah nice to avoid the rest of my comments about your posts. In the end you will start the same in my opinion ******** in another thread again. Defend your statements for once and come with proper sources instead of spweing hearsay stuff all over the forum and never owning up to it.

 

I talked about what I had to pay when I ordered my machine with about equal hardware!! Awbook 17R3 was more expensive than what I had to pay for my BGA-KILLER!!

What's the point with hardware you can't put up to the maximum limits!!

Regarding shared heatsink/pipes. I don't need to read me up on this. You can see the fiasco design in different laptop reviews Pull 4.8/4.9 GHz on processor and max out desktop Gpu and you will probably see what I mean. Of course you will never have the possibility to see this with a lapBook.

 

The performance to size/weight ratio with the current Alienwares is pretty much the same as the much bigger P870. The bigger you make it the more you can put into it.

I have presented you with reviews before. the P870 also cant hold its turbo speeds under absolute full load by default. You modded your machine with a delidded CPU, Liquid metal based thermal paste etc. Pretty much every higher end machine will cool better with that type of paste. Dont present your machine as the standard for all P870's. You had to put in extra effort to made it perform like that. This is why I always compared everything at stock. The only factor that is guaranteed for everyone.

"In order to test the automatic overclocking "Turbo Boost," we confronted the i7-6700 with the Cinebench R15 and the Unigine Heaven 4.0 benchmarks. Result: The 14 nm processor always reached the maximum clock of 3.7 GHz (Multi-Core) or 4.0 GHz (Single-Core). It did not even throttle under full load with Prime95, but the Turbo was hardly active any longer (~3.5 GHz)."
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-XMG-U726-Clevo-P870DM-Notebook-Review.153136.0.html

I paid 1800euro with 2 years NBD support included by the way. I could choose the HK CPU version and If I would buy 2 extra 950pro ssd's separately with it I would have paid about 2100 max. That would mean a fully tricked out FHD AW15R3 which is a AW17R3 in a 15inch shell.

BUt my biggest problem with your posts is and I have said it before. You take one problem case from this forum. Present it in another topic like all machines are flawed with that problem you. Example, there was a user with a burned PSU cable, an one off problem which has not occured on this forum before with that one product. You take that problem, go to another topic and say " All Alienware echo models are flawed because they have bad cables". This is spreading untrue misinformation and is toxic. Other users copy your data and spread it even more. Like a gossip magazine.

 

How the hell do you think they work? Alienware sends request to display panel producer and gets samples then they check its QUALITY. If quality is bad they send complaints and request other panels but they didn't gave a damn and sent BAD panels to production and to buyers that paid a lot for Alienware quality because quality isn't important anymore.

As for personal insults just report the guy.

 

I did report and received more insults,

ANyway, those are the same panels as all manufacturers use. Their are only about 5 types of panels available for all manufacturers spread over 2 or 3 screensizes. So the panels you say are crap in the Alienware are the panels you might praise in other brands. While they are exactly the same panels. SCreenbleed is unfortunately an issue for all brands including CLevo, Asus, MSI etc.

 

I don't give a damn in which laptop they bleed. If I was the Alienware CEO I wouldn't get that panel. My doesn't bleed so there are better than this crap.

Message for clients: Sorry display in your overpriced, not upgradable laptop sucks because we didn't want to bother with display manufacturer. Have fun!

As for reports maybe because everyone reported you?

 

Also overpriced are mxm boards. 800 euro for a 980. Not a 1600~1800 euro 980M fully equipped laptop. If dell wouldnt offer those 4K panels you have guys like papusan complaining that they dont do 4K.

 

Good news!; they still offer one socketed CPU and mxm gpu laptop; the Precision M6800! with max cpu of Intel® Core™ i7-4940MX. I wonder if it can take a 980M MXM?

Honestly I am surprised they still sell this model, and pleased. Says something about the popularity of powerful socketed hardware for their enterprise side of business. We have at least six of these in our office for Solidworks. Hopefully enterprise demand for MXM hardware will keep it alive.

 

If it will work with 980M good that will not be due to their support. They already abandoned M18xR1/R2 in supporting maxwell.

 

*Face palm* he chooses every single upgrade to try and use it to support his unrealistic price point to fuel his rant? ROFL. This is comical.

He should know that an enthusiast would never pay that amount of money to get a fully maxed system, unless there was a deal of some kind to justify the purchase. You always want to order the system as base as you can get it to your liking so that you can upgrade yourself, thus saving you money. But never to pay the ridiculous upgrade prices from the manufacturer.

It's unfortunate enough to see the contamination being spread around here, but to see him caught and called out right in his own tracks is hilarious. "Yea, lets go fully max out an AW and use that as a base shall we..." - Brilliant. Not.

This is very typical of any company with a refresh cycle and just a common business tactic. The phone industry is famous for this, and interestingly enough they are also crippling things from the software side as well.

The unfortunate thing is that our options are very limited with socketed options. No offense, but not everyone desires a clevo / sager. I personally like the design of the P775DM1* / (Clevo rebrand) Eurocom Sky DLX7 design better than the aged IBM thinkpad look. No offense, just personal preference.
In truth, the Eurocom Sky DLX7* offers everything that I am looking for ...for the most part in a DTR, however, I'm waiting it out to see what else is around the horizon. Although Eurocom offers up to a 3 year warranty, it is a depot protocol, which I don't like at all of having to send in the laptop for repair. AW on the other hand will come to you and/or send you certain parts. Even if you had to send it out to the depot, everything is ove-rnighted at their expense. Literally. Call Monday, receive a return label and box on Tuesday, they receive it on Wednesday, repair on Thursday and you can get it back as early as Friday, but usually Saturday. I doubt any of the current DTR's would be as efficient as that. A lot of people including myself can't go that long without a main rig.

On the bright side, perhaps a company who can design a nice looking laptop can provide a solution to this madness and whoever that company is will BANK, because our wallets are waiting...Eurocom looks enticing, but I'm sure you'd be able to give me the dirt on them if there is any...

 

An honest question at some users here. What where the most recent games you actually played?

 

I've been curious myself for several reasons....

 

custom 3d maid 2

and I bought a vive just because I can...

 

The DLX7 is 12-15% faster than an Alienware machine clock for clock and that's without overclocking the processor, but it might be a bit heavy for some. It supports up to DDR4-3000+


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-intel-skylake-core-i5-6500-review

 

alienware 17 r3: 3.78kg on dell website
dlx7 (p775dm1): 3.9kg on eurocom

not that different if you ask me



in retard units:
8.33lb
8.58lb

 

That video is showing memory overclocking and the results. YOu can do that on the Alienwares too.

Correct me if I am wrong. But that machine cannot run the 980 MXM board due to form factor issues right?

So in the end it is just an upgradable AW17 like laptop with a desktop CPU but less battery life.

Yeah I suspect tha tmost advocates against Alienware aren't even really into modern gaming and thus not use their laptops for that purpose at all.

I am often in Japan, my girlfriend is Japanese and pretty into the Japanese culture. BUt custom 3d maid?!?!?! cant even look at it

 

Smaller mxm board, 180w

 

I'm thinking so as well, but regardless the approach and posture of the basis of the attacks all shine light to polishing ego's more than anything.

Nevertheless, a lot of us are happy with our AW's as it games just fine at respectable settings, some even maxed.




Powered by: Quad Core Exynos + 6820HK

 

I replied to an earlier post of yours above in bold.

Yeah, games I play lately. Project Cars, Doom recently, a little Division to name a few.. and this really good game you might not have heard called 3d Mark

 

Witcher 3, Arma 3, War thunder, 3ds max, UE4 Editor, Unity editor.

I need a lot of cpu power for them all and a lot of gpu power too

 

The reason why I said that about compare at stock, is because it is the only measurable constant for us. For example I had 2x 970GTX cards for in my desktop (Sold one because SLI is **** nowadays), both repasted and both a good asic score. But 1 could clock up to 1.6ghz overclocked and one wouldn't even reach a stable 1.4ghz. The variance in parts when seeking boundaries is too big to make a statement about it. Papusan might have won the sillicon lottery and have more playroom than another user that might not have that playroom at all. Also he compared it to stock machines in reviews etc while users such as @iunlock overclock the **** out of their Alienware and have a much higher score which Paupusan then chooses to neglect. So it is comparing Apples to oranges.

But yeah you actually use it for gaming. I had the feeling that especially Papusan & Mr Fox hardly use it for gaming but purely benchmarking. That is why I put that question in this topic. I for example game a lot, I have a lot of time and I enjoy spending that with games (Witcher 3, Overwatch, Doom, Division etc). I never found that the machine I used hampered me in anyway to enjoy the latest modern games on high and ultra settings with a steady 60fps.

Read the text above. Same goes for you.

 

But it can run a 2x8GB DDR4-3000 kit ( stock )

It runs a different 980N MXM board with similar size to the 970M/980M.

Watts = frequency*voltage*voltage*constant ( arch )

At the same frequency and voltage, it'd consume the same amount of power. It consumes 91w at 4.0 at 1.2v, but you can manually lower them to the same values or even lower for low power mode.
6820HK by default runs at 3.2ghz on all cores ( turbo ) and has a 2.7ghz base. 3.6ghz is the single core turbo.

 

Just played Fallout 4 last night... Single 980M