Stubborn GPU and CPU throttling - Overclocking Non-XM CPU

I'm running the 12.1 drivers, but had the same problem on the 11.10's. SWTOR runs nicely, then slows down after a while, likely due to my temps (my card will at this point be locked in at 400/900). Well, once the temps settle, the GPU never speeds back up!

Has anyone else had this problem? Has anyone found a fix? I have powerplay turned off.

This is not a SWTOR related problem - it is the fact that my GPU is throttling and will not speed back up when the temps drop. Please keep this an independent post so I can get specific answers to my questions. That is, of course, unless this problem actually COULD be specifically SWTOR related. Does a separate game application have that much control over your hardware?

 

You cannot stop the change of power states on the AMD or NVIDIA GPU, but you can use RBE to mod your vBIOS and set the second-highest power state to equal clock speeds and voltage of the high-performance state so that when the throttling happened it would be irrelevant because clock speeds and voltage remain the same. (You would leave your low power 2D states alone so the card can slow down under low demand.)

 

This sounds ingenious. Quick question though - what the heck is RBE?

Edit: Ah, ok. The tool I initially used to OC my card.

So, as an aside, my temps, I assume, will go down if I change the paste to ICD? I will not be changing the pads though... Still a worthwhile thing to do?

 

Hello, Tapakidney, can you take a look here and see if it can help you fix your issue:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...xed-radeon-6990m-core-clock-stuck-100mhz.html

How high do your temps climb?
Are you on the stock thermal paste or you already got that covered by replacing it?
Do you have the same issue running stock clocks?

 

RBE is Radeon BIOS Editor. You save your vBIOS, load it up in RBE to make changes, save the changes, then re-flash with ATIFlash or ATI WinFlash. If your cards are throttling due to heat, you absolutely need to correct that. If they are simply getting stuck in a down-throttled state without being heat-induced or due to malfunction, then that is where the vBIOS modding comes in very handy.

 

My temps are reaching 85c in SWTOR. I think my temps have gotten overall much higher since my first purchasing this machine, despite my keeping the fan clean. I wonder if it has something to do with the fan rattling a bit... I have a new fan ready to put in, and figured I would repaste while I'm at it.

So, I am currently on the factory paste, using a probably damaged fan. I have not tried SWTOR on stock clocks yet - may try that. I believe I will also mess with the BIOS. Might be nice though to fix my situation without relying on RBE (I.E. - maybe I should lower my temps).

Thanks!

 

That should be the first step after going back to stock clocks for a while.
When you'll be able to tame those high values, start increasing clocks and stress test to make sure heat is out of the equation.

 

Definitely need to take care of those other things, as they may be causing the throttling --- overclocking, bad fan... that's additional information that was not in your first post that would be very relevant. If you get the temps under control, using RBE to enhance performance (rather than "fix" malfunctions) would be something to have fun with.

The 6970M and 6990M sometimes have issues with PowerPlay causing them to not clock up under load or getting "stuck" at 2D speeds, etc. and those are the types of things you can address with RBE.

 

Well, repasted (wow, that was a BAD factory paste job) and replaced the fan. I'm getting 77c in Furmark right now(800/1050). Isn't that pretty bad? I really feel I used to get better temps.

I'd prefer to keep these clocks if possible, because I HATE that I don't have the 6990 - my high OC alleviates that feeling a bit.

 

No, that's actually good, buddy. If 77°C is your highest temp in a Furmark bench run or after 5+ minutes of burn-in testing you stay at or below 80-85°C while overclocked to 800/1050, then I'd say you're looking pretty sweet. Sustained temps over 80°C on an AMD card are generally considered undesirable. Furmark is a brutal test that taxes your GPU more than any game should. I bet now you will be running cool during gaming.

Dell/Alienware doesn't really use paste from the factory. It's a square pad of thermal material that is actually very good as long as the contact between the heat sink and GPU die doesn't get jarred loose. When you take it apart it looks like things were not done well, or like not enough TIM was present.

 

Oh, I felt that there was waaay too much TIM. It was all over the place.

But thank you, that is good news. I just played a good 4 hrs with no throttling. I think I topped out at 74c. Thanks a lot for all your help!

Actually, I wonder if you have any input on another matter - better than making a new thread. My CPU seems to stay at 2.2 ghz all the time, no matter what. Shouldn't turbo kick in sometimes? I have Core Temp up, and never see the speed change, even when running Prime95. Is this normal behavior, or is something up?

 

STANDARD WARNING

Third party BIOS Modifications, VBIOS Modifications and other system level tweaks (including fan control) can potentially cause damage to your system. Be aware of this before blindly flashing/installing.

If you brick your system or cause damage, chances are very high that your warranty will be useless. Know what you are doing, you are responsible for your actions.

-

The more cores that are employed, the slower the CPU runs on a non-Extreme processor. Only an Extreme CPU can run at or near full Turboboost speed on all cores. When you launch Prime95 or wPrime, before beginning the benchmark, start Task Manager. Locate the app in the list and set the affinity to one proc (check only CPU0 - uncheck the rest). When you begin the benchmark, you may see your CPU hit the max turboboost speed. If you close the program, you will have to reset the affinity again. The setting is only temporary. You can play around with affinity and try selecting both CPU0 and CPU1 to see the max speed on 2 cores instead of 1.

You may need to override the Turboboost settings in your BIOS. Set everything to its maximum values.

Long Duration PWR limit [99] (in some cases 72 is the most you can set... depends on your BIOS version)
Long Duration TimeWindow [56]
Short Duration PWR Limit [Enabled]
Short Duration PWR Limit [99]​

You can also bump up your BCLK settings. The 2720QM can usually run stable at 105 to 106MHz. The 2760QM in my current system starts getting flaky if I go over 104.6 to 104.7. (BCLK settings normally look like 10510 - 5 digits.) You have to select "Immediate" and then select "Permanent" to get the settings to stick.

You can also try using the Intel® Extreme Tuning Utility v2.1. It works for my M18x even though it is designed for desktop boards.

If you get stuck, look at these two threads. (M17x R3 and M18x BIOS settings are very similar.) There are some settings that are only available with the Extreme CPU. Non-extreme CPU settings are generally limited to Turboboost limits and BCLK, but there is information in both threads that can be applied to some extent to non-XM procs.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...920xm-2960xm-cpu-overclocking-discussion.html

http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...-2960xm-cpus-m17x-r3-without-modded-bios.html

Hope this helps. Click the link in my signature and you may find more interesting stuff.

 

Was wondering if anyone has successfully locked the 2720qm at 3.2ghz, if so could you explain how please.

Running m17x.r3 2720qm, 6970m, 12gb.

Having what seem to be "heartbeat" style fps chugs where BF3 will run great for 30 seconds then chug for a second then run great for 30 seconds then chug for a second. When using the render.perfoverlayvisible setting the CPU and GPU load make a huge spike and go back down.

I'm on the a08 unlocked bios, and using catalyst 11.12(i think, they were downloaded yesterday being the latest version from the ati website)

I noticed the problem occurs in other games as well, I was letting my little brother play a game called "terraria" a 2d sidescrolling game on my PC and it will run smooth as silk for awhile, then randomly dip to low fps for a few seconds then bump back up.

I'm raising the back of the laptop so it is not overheating, I also have the thermal settings modified in the bios so that the fan goes to 100% at 60c instead of the default 75, and the throttling starts at 90 instead of the default 85c.

So if anyone knows how I can disable the throttling and simply lock my processor to 3.2ghz (whatever the turbo default is) so that I can stop wrestling with this infuriating issue.

 

Arseassin - please review the post directly above yours. It may be helpful. (It started out as GPU throttling questions and ended with Q&A on CPU throttling, so the thread title probably did not catch your eye. I just updated the title for the benefit of others.)

There is possibly enough to wet your whistle, with links to other threads with more info for discussion.

 

Yeah I posted separately because none of this is applicable to the 2720qm, and provides no assistance whatsoever in disabling the speedstep type features that make the CPU speed constantly fluctuate. I appreciate the effort but if it is buried within this thread it will never get resolved.

 

STANDARD WARNING

Third party BIOS Modifications, VBIOS Modifications and other system level tweaks (including fan control) can potentially cause damage to your system. Be aware of this before blindly flashing/installing.

If you brick your system or cause damage, chances are very high that your warranty will be useless. Know what you are doing, you are responsible for your actions.

-

I think you need to take another look, bro. You may have accidentally overlooked what I was attempting to call your attention to. See this post. It applies specifically to your question about fluctuating CPU speeds. The settings are there, all you have to do is apply them. I had a 2720QM in my previous M18x and have the 2760QM in my current M18x and the turboboost override and BCLK settings apply to both of them. There is nothing else that you can do to change or enhance the performance on your non-Extreme CPU other than these settings. The multipliers cannot be unlocked on our CPUs and you cannot run at full turbo clock speed with multiple cores in use. The CPU behavior is by design. The 2760QM is a little bit beefier, but not a huge difference from the 2720QM from what I have been able to tell thus far.

What you can do with an unlocked BIOS is disable hyperthreading, which can help stabilize the fluctuation in clock speeds. You can also run on 2 instead of 4 cores to increase CPU speed. Here are a few screen shots that might be helpful. I am getting excellent results with these settings. I hope you (or someone else) finds them helpful. I don't think there is a way to truly lock your CPU at 3.3GHz. Even the XM procs slow down when they are not under load.

If you are having throttling due to temps, the only thing you can do is try to run cooler to avoid the temps that trigger down-clocking.





If this does not help, then I am at a loss as to what sort of technical information you are looking for, or what, if anything, will help.

 

Minor Hijack guys, sorry. But I have a 920x and didn't realize, until reading this thread, that the x can do turbo on all cores. Actually, I did notice that happening the other day but didn't really trust the reader. Dell is, finally, sending me a new replacement for my problematic R2. The comp has a 2860QM in it. The few benchmarks I could find suggested that it was superior to the 920x. But factoring in what you just said fox about the X-cores, am I taking a step down?

 

I have everything set verbatim (except mine maxes at 72 as opposed to 99) on some of those settings. I've tried with the C states disabled as well, and I also have my ram forced to 1600mhz. None of this makes any difference however as the PC seems to do whatever it wants.

With your settings, as I type this, CPUZ shows my core speed as 823mhz. This is with only 2 cores as well.

My ram is sitting a 685mhz as opposed to the 800 it should be at to meet my set 1600 speed.

I guess I'm going to return the laptop to them and demand a replacement that doesnt crap out on half of the games I play.

I appreciate the help though.

 

Yes, that is a step down. A big one, in my opinion. The 2860QM is not an acceptable replacement for an Extreme CPU. They need to make that right and give you a replacement with an XM, not a QM CPU. The appropriate replacement would be a 2920XM (obsolete) or 2960XM (current). This is probably a simple mistake on the person's part that arranged the replacement. The selection may have been made based on maximum GHz on 1 or 2 cores, but the performance potential of the XM (even the old 920XM) is greater than the 2860QM when all cores are under load. Be polite, but don't accept the downgraded CPU.

Sorry the info was not helpful for you. Perhaps the screen shots will benefit someone else. Hope all goes well with the discussion about an exchange.

 

You can try this to see whether it serves your purposes:

a) Open the Registry and navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\ Services\Intelppm. Change the Start parameter in the right panel from 3 to 4.

b) Reboot

c) Load Throttlestop and uncheck both (1) EIST and (2) C1E.

That should lock your 2720QM (all 4 cores) at 30x (3.0GHz). Run wPrime 1.55 or TS Bench to test, then use as you normally would with T-Stop active to monitor CPU multipliers. Monitor temps; this will cause your CPU to run hotter because the rest states are disabled. If you are satisfied that this is what you want, then disable Intel Speedstep (EIST) and Enhanced C States in the BIOS to make the settings permanent and avoid the need for T-Stop. Again, watch the temps.

 

This worked perfectly.

This post needs to be stickied, I cant express how thankful I am for a quick to the point solution like this.

Major kudos to you Mr. Snake Plisken

 

Wonderful. Glad it fits the need.

 

I see - so in reality, Throttlestop isn't needed for the M18x? Everything can be done manually in the BIOS?

 

I have come to realize another issue plaguing my laptop now, and I'll post here and let it run for a few days before I start a new thread about it.

The fan on my 6970m by default does not *ever* run at max unless I force it to via HWiNFO64. I do remember when I first purchased the laptop that the fan would get obnoxiously loud during long gaming sessions, which didnt bother me, but I never confirmed the actual speed of the fans.

Thanks to the recent testing I've come to notice that the fan seems to run around 5krpm max under its own control. This allows the GPU to hit the throttle zone rather quickly. Using HWiNFO64, I am able to force the fan at 7krpm at all times, which keeps the GPU in the safe zone under even the most rigorous tests.

Another problem that I have discovered as a result of this, is when my GPU throttles itself, after reaching safer temps, it sets the clocks at 400/900 instead of 680/900. This is the new GPU max clock until I reboot the system. Even when running at 55c it refuses to pass 400 core without a reboot.

Let me note that I have *not* changed any of the GPU bios settings using RBE or winflash. The only things I've done involve using sapphire TRIXX, and benchmarking tools. If HWiNFO64 offers GPU overclocking I have not utilized it.

Because of these issues I have begun to question the fan behavior on the CPU. HWiNFO does not allow me to adjust CPU fan speeds(that I have noticed) so I am questioning whether those are capping out at a lower speed as well.

I appreciate any help

 

bumping before i start a new thread

 

Hi all, I am very new to alienware laptops and new to overclocking. I have read the overclocking and throttling threads but I still have some questions and if any experienced member would be kind enough to share knowledge, I'd be grateful.

1. I understand that non-extreme processors are locked. Is there any way to unlock them?

2. In terms of the 2860QM, I am noticing erratic behaviour. I have flashed the A03 bios but have deliberately not played with any settings. Sometimes all 4 cores seem to be set very stably at 3.4 GHz (as per HWinFO64) regardless of programmes/games running.

Other times, the CPU fluctuates to lower states when idle as I would expect and then boosts to 3.5 GHz when needed. I thought the latter was normal but I don't understand why in some instances, the CPU locks itself into overclock.

3. If I did want to overclock, what is the best I can hope for on this CPU? Is it just a case of getting a stable say 3.5 GHz on all 4 cores and thats all she can give?

4. I have read others saying to reduce to 2 overclocked cores. Does this offer any advantage over letting the CPU turbo boost itself on all 4 cores?

5. If anyone has any 2860QM BIOS settings which are decent, I'd be grateful if you shared so I can try them. I'm not trying to reach magical numbers but if I could get a stable 3.5 GHz on all 4 cores, that would be great.

Thanks for your help.
Alex

 

youd have to overclock to get 3.5ghz on all 4 cores and even then it would only do it for certain apps.

 

alex - welcome to NBR Forums. We're glad you joined the Alienware Community.

I moved your question into the appropriate thread. There are some tweaks that might help you achieve your overclocking goals, although options are limited. The BIOS settings are in screen shots. This is a short thread, so read the entire thing. I did quite a bit of non-XM CPU benchmarking before upgrading to an XM proc, so feel free to post questions after reading and trying the suggestions.

Also check out the link in my signature right above the graphic. There is a list of helpful threads. Please take time to read the forum rules and the tip on how to use Google to search for what you are looking for in our forum.

Again, welcome to NBR. Have a good week.

 

Thanks Mr Fox. I performed all the tweaks to the bios as in the screenshots. I had to disable C-states in order to achieve a stable 3.3 GHz on all cores, so that works now. I can't change the multipliers from x33 to x36 to achieve 3.6 GHz on all cores though.

I have only done one benchmark and results were as follows:

1. Standard factory settings with turboboost and no bios tweaks
3d Mark11 Score 6656

2. Overclocked settings with stable 3.3 GHz on all cores
3d Mark11 Score 6400

So it seems I have lost some performance. It appears the turbo boost to 3.6 GHz on the standard settings really does help. Any ideas on what I change next to get 3.5 or 3.6 GHz on all cores?

Thermally there was no issue on 3.3GHz overclock on all cores (max temp 65 C).

Any help appreciated

 

If you have a non-XM CPU the multipliers are locked and there is nothing you can do to change that. Your clock speeds will drop as more cores are engaged and it is unavoidable. You can try running ThrottleStop to improve the benchmarking performance. That worked well for me with the 2760QM CPU. You may be able to raise your BCLK higher as well. This is the only way to increase clock speeds with a non-XM CPU. Some users are able to run the BCLK up to 106 or 106.5 with stability. What is your current BCLK setting? If you have disabled HyperThreading, turn that back on and see if your benchmark scores improve.

 

The above figures were with standard bus speeds of 100MHz. When I tried to change BCLK settings through the A03 BIOS, this caused a system hang up every time.

I got fed up of it and I flashed BIOS A05 as a result. In A05, I raised BCLK to 105.5 Mhz and with Throttlestop disabled energy saving features. I also locked my RAM speed to 1600 MHz. There is very little else to play with in A05 and I can't lock the multipliers on all 4 cores. On turboboost, this gives 3.7GHz

I ran 3DMark11 on the above setup and now scores are much more respectable:
Score: 7543 Thermals: CPU max: 70 C, GPUs max: 68 C

I haven't overclocked the 6990s yet and I think with some tweaking 8000+ is realistically achievable. Not sure if I want to reflash A03 as it was definitely problematic. I have never had a BIOS lock up like that on me before.

 

Good job, alex! That is a good score, and yes 8000+ is achievable.

My highest 3DMark11 score with the 2760QM and 6990M CF was P8092, and for Vantage it was P25730... http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...cial-alienware-m18x-benchmark-thread-341.html

 

Guy please help!!! I jusy received m18x r2 with a 3820 cpu>>>2.7~3.7GHz but when ui used cpuid and alienware tech support looked at my machine also it is clocked at a measely 1.1 GHz...it does boost to 3.48GHZ but the multi is at 12 on base as it should be 27...27 x bus speed of 100 then gives 2.7 Ghz but like i said above...is alienware doing this on purpose...the bios is locked and every little thing i could possibly change doesnt stick always defaults to manufacturer settings..only thing that sticks is date and time adjustments..any thoughts, thanks in advance. Also i have been OC'in for 20 years so im no noob at it i do know what im doing, just not familiar with dell or alienware laps..

 

Have you tried disconnecting the CMOS battery already? Sometimes the Insyde 2.0 BIOS can be ornery and needs to be cleared in order to save the information. I have to do this from time-to-time.

Also, to change BCLK and other values on that screen is two steps process. Change the values and first select "Immediately" and then select "Permanent" after that, before pressing F10 to save and close. If you skip the "Permanent" step it will not save those values when you exit.