The issue with nVidia chips, and what to look for if yours is failing

Downclocking and overheating are some of the noticeable problems with the m15x and other systems using 8600,8700,8800,9600, 9800 cards. To address this issue DELL, Alienware, HP and other OEM's have released new updated BIOS versions that modify the fan profile in the system. (Alienware m15x x34 BIOS update)

The defective nVidia chips real issue though is a weak die/packaging material set, which may fail with GPU temperature fluctuations. (Fans running on high through the modified BIOS profile help to prevent weak die failures by preventing temp fluctuations). If your GPU fails, you may see intermittent symptoms during early stages of failure that include:
Multiple images
Random characters on the screen
Lines on the screen
No video
To help keep temps down, it is highly recommended to use a notebook cooler with twin fans that BLOW AIR UPWARDS. A 15" cooler can be modified for a 17" notebook.

 

I maxed at 110C today and Ive done nothing graphically intensive. Do have 111+?

The Die/packaging materials are done by the actually manufacturer right?

 

The packaging materials and stuff are done by other manufacturers that join the die with the green PCB square that it sits on.

-J.B.

 

in other words...
no notebook company will offer to replace the gpu's any time soon if at all, so unless you have a 2-3yr warranty, you basically s**t out of luck....

 

well they have to, because they sell it. if my GPU fails, AW has to replace it, because they sold it to me as part of my system.

 

only if you are under warranty but after all these issues if people dont have a 3 year warranty i dont know what to say to you

 

Yea your system is really messed up man you shouldn't be going past 100C ever so 110C is horrible. You REALLY need to get that checked out.

 

Thats a good question. Its no secret that Nvidia is having this major problem.

So will there ever be a proper fix? Would they ever issue a total recall of all mobile gpus? or are they just going to settle this by bios, and firmware updates, which limits the full potential of the card by making it max to a certain temp/point, making that the cut off point just before the card melts in to a pile of goo?

It be interesting to see how they fix it.

 

I thought it was only the 8600 chips had confirmed problems/recalls. The other chips were false rumors made up by the AMD/ATI fanboys because they have been behind for the past 2 years, and are now passing Nvidia.
Note:NAS Ghost has a 8600MGT chip.

 

Yeah dude, I think your right. I personally don't have a problem with my card. Only while playing Crysis do I see a massive rise in heat.

I don't think there is a single person out there who doesn't have a problem with Crysis, because everything else I throw at it, it handles flawlessly.

Edit: I was just checking the other forums on here and came across a simular thread in the gaming section. In there is a possible reason for the overheating issue from a link on Toms Hardware. Here is the link to the thread.

 

FYI-
The defective cards cannot be fixed. They have to be replaced, and right now it is a failure across the board.

 

This is gonna be a long post- sorry I have been remiss. Lots of new info regarding 8600/8700 (known defects), and 8800/9600/9800 (suspected):

HP Joins Dell in Listing Notebook Models with Defective [nVidia] GPUs by Paul Lilly, Editor for HardwareLogic.com
Just over a week ago Dell made available a list of its notebooks that are affected by the GPUs believed to be suffering higher than expected failure rates [due to the card's failure to withstand the extreme thermal environments], and is recommending owners update their BIOS to reduce their risk of running into a problem. The updated BIOSes modify the fan profile to help regulate GPU temperature fluctuations, but as Dell notes, the new parameters won't help customers who are already suffering video-related issues.
Dell isn't alone, and now HP has also released a list of models that qualify for 'Warranty Service Enhancement' (curiously absent is the DV97xx series). And like Dell, HP is also recommending its owners update their BIOS as a preventive measure.
So are all G84 and G86 parts bad like The Inq surmised early in July? No one but Nvidia knows for sure, but looking over the list of affected models would seem to indicate the allegation could hold some merit.
Did Nvidia drop the ball harder than they're letting on? [Only nVidia knows for sure and they are not talking...]



Nvidia Reports Thermal Issues Caused Packaging Failures
Nvidia Corp. said some of its notebook-use graphics chips have failed because of packaging materials that could not withstand the �extreme thermal environments� seen in notebook computers. The company will take a one-time charge of $150M-$200M during its second quarter.
Staff -- Semiconductor International

Nvidia Corp. (Santa Clara, Calif.) said a thermal problem with packaging materials resulted in abnormally high rates of failure in the field for some of its notebook graphics chips, resulting in a one-time charge of $150M-$200M during its second quarter.
The company said it has “switched to a more robust die/package material set,” and is working with its customers to develop system management software that will provide better thermal management.
In a statement, CEO Jen-Hsun Huang said, “Although the failure appears related to the combination of the interaction between the chip material set and system design, we have a responsibility to our customers and will take our part in resolving this problem.”
Huang said Nvidia will work more closely with notebook system designers and its chip foundries to improve the robustness of the products. Discussions are underway with its supply chain regarding the material set issue. Also, Nvidia will seek to recover some of its loss from insurance.
“Today's high-performance notebooks are highly complex systems with extreme thermal environments. The combination of limited thermal management and frequent power cycling is particularly challenging for complex processors like the GPU,” Huang said.
[The failures are caused by a solder bump that connects the I/O termination of the silicon chip to the pad on the substrate. In Nvidia’s GPUs, this solder bump is created using high-lead. A thermal mismatch between the chip and the substrate has substantially grown in recent chip generations, apparently leading to fatigue cracking. Add into the equation a growing chip size (double the chip dimension, quadruple the stress on the bump) as well as generally hotter chips and you may have the perfect storm to take high lead beyond its limits. Apparently, problems arise at what Nvidia claims to be extreme temperatures]



Nvidia offers $200 refund to OEMs with defective GPUs
By Justin Mann, TechSpot.com
Published: September 8, 2008, 11:51 AM EST

Nvidia is still bleeding money due to the defective GPU issue, which has been problematic for them amongst multiple cards. Initially thought only to affect certain cards in the G84 and G86 [8600/8700] series, it was later to be found more widespread. [It is also speculated that there were manufacturing defects in the G92 and G94 (8800/9600/98000]) chipsets.] Matters were made even worse when many mobile GPUs were found to be outright defective and needed to be replaced.

This didn't make vendors happy, so Nvidia has been forced to deal with issuing refunds to them to cover their losses. Nvidia is being generous with the refund, issuing $200 per laptop, enough to cover the cost of replacing the defective part and getting it to/from the customer.


Brower Piven Encourages Investors Who Have Losses in Excess of $200,000 From Investment in NVIDIA Corp. to Inquire About the Lead Plaintiff Position in Securities Fraud Class Action Lawsuit Before the November 10, 2008 Lead Plaintiff Deadline
BALTIMORE, MD--(MARKET WIRE)--Sep 10, 2008 -- Brower Piven, A Professional Corporation announces that a class action lawsuit has been commenced in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California on behalf of purchasers of the common stock of NVIDIA Corporation ("NVIDIA" or the "Company") (NasdaqGS: NVDA - News) during the period between November 8, 2007 and July 2, 2008, inclusive (the "Class Period").
No class has yet been certified in the above action.

The complaint alleges that the defendants violated the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 by issuing a series of misrepresentations and omissions that concealed and failed to disclose the unusually high failure rates of NVIDIA's mobile video adapters and the impact of these defects on the Company's financial condition and results for future business prospects.

 

I just have a very quick question...
As far as my knowledge allows me to reach, neither G84 or G86 GPU architecture is used in any of actual Alienware computers (maybe the 8600GT in the m15x, but I'm sure no one gets that option anyway)...
So... Is this the right section to be posting this???

EDIT: Actually, just noticed the 8700m GT is G86... Still, I haven't seen almost anyone reporting GPU failure with their 8700mGT on the m15x).

 

good point, milcs. 8800m-gtx uses G92 for sure, 8700m-gtx too i think. and yeah, 8600m-gt must be the worst selling video card in AW history i think there's ONE person here with the 8600m...