The question everyone should be asking...

Ok so it is pretty obvious to everyone and anyone who is either new here to the Alienware sub-section, been here for years, visits from time to time, or just simply stopping by, that there is an elephant in the room. Everyone seems to be a little frustrated or with good reason extremely outraged and upset that their newer model $3000 Alienware laptops, that were already slowly sliding down a slippery quality control slope, are now implementing BGA CPU's and GPU's (no sockets, soldered directly to mobo like macbook pros for example... ie. can not be upgraded and only replaced with a full mobo swap)

Now whether they had a choice in doing this, or did it for pure profit margin, or did it for long-term gain in product turn-over, did it to taste our tears, or were even maybe forced into it to survive due to new industry standards trying to work with what new chipsets intel had provided, I don't personally know. I don't really even care, there is only one thing I care about speaking as a loyal Alienware customer from the beginning. Is this change in technology temporary? Or is this change the new business model they are going to follow until the end?

This is not a thread that argues BGA chip performance vs mxm/socketed laptops, because that to me already seems clear. ( http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/246907-how-mobile-i7-cpus-work/;)

This is not even a thread discussing why the change was made, or if it was a good move for Dell or not. I understand it saves on battery life, I also understand it makes the profile slimmer. These are two things that most enthusiast consumers purchasing AW laptops honestly don't blink an eye at when weighing what laptop to buy.

I wan't you to tell me if you personally think this is just Dell following the industry standard, switching over to a more disposable product, or is this hopefully just a temporary implementation of technology until other products become available from Intel/Nvidia?

What does the future look like for Alienware laptops?

 

They wanna be the next Apple.

 

Aint gonna happen lol. I hope that isn't what they are shooting for

 

I don't see them changing. It wasn't by mistake they made those crappy changes.

 

I guess I'm the only one here that doesn't really mind our new BGA overlords? I suppose since my last Alienware was the AW14 (it had a BGA GPU) I'm more content with it. I also see the amplifier as the means expand GPU horsepower more cheaply and effectively, which frankly I would prefer over replacing a MXM card, so it doesn't really upset me much in that aspect. The CPU being BGA bother's me a bit more, but it's mitigated by the fact that these days, only the very slowest dual-core processor in the AW 13 would have trouble keeping pace with future titles. That should be somewhat expected when you buy a low tier product I feel though. There's also the part where these laptops are cheaper than they have been in the past(and sometimes much cheaper than their competitors), making it easier to swallow a new one every 3-4 years.

I get it, there's a lack of expand-ability, but frankly I was never one to go out and spend the $900 (for an 980M on Amazon, that's insane )for a new graphics card that's half as capable for what you could get in a desktop. By the time it's worth it to upgrade,the rest of the laptop is quickly slipping into obsolescence. I also just never felt comfortable in spending half the new MSRP on an out of warranty gaming laptop and hoping I could scrounge another couple of years out of it.

Thin/light is what's been keeping the laptop and 2 in 1 market alive for the past 4-5 years. It has touched practically every part of the (shrinking) consumer PC industry. You can bet your buns that they (and practically every other OEM) are going for thinner/lighter by some measure. Will they go to the extreme similar to Apple/Razer? Probably not, but eGPU's are finally here, and they're allowing some pretty dramatic, seemingly less compromising designs.

A lot of people (myself included) would gladly take something like the Razer Blade stealth, something that's portable enough to carry around like a normal laptop, but when you come home (or the kitchen counter in my case) can still smash through GTA V.

 

I'm content with the BGA, I definitely understand why people are angry, but I'm in the same boat as you, the cost to upgrade a laptop made it pretty much an unused option for me too. The only thing I really lose is the ability to replace the CPU if it goes bad, but I bought extended warranty for that anyway. As far as quality goes, everything seems to be doing good so far, but we shall see.

 

Well, you actually lose more than that, but if you are content with using it the way it shipped and the performance is enough to meet your expectations, then that's fine. If you appreciate having the best performance available and a good CPU overclocking experience, you lose that as well. To some people that is a really big deal and it does not meet their expectations.

 

I agree, if you're looking for the absolute best performance and the ability to have high overclocking, Alienware isn't for you anymore. The Clevo/Sager is probably the best bet for that. I looked at those too, but I was looking for a little less weight and more battery life. To each their own.

 

This really exemplifies how overclocking has changed compared to 10 years ago when I started in the hobby and the marketing monster it's turned into these days. The terms 'overclocking' , 'performance' and 'enthusiast' mean very different things now than they used too. No longer are they used by people who've taken entry-level hardware and tweaked it within the capability of top-tier systems; a painful process that genuinely took effort and skill.

Instead, they're used as meaningless adjectives to describe (and sell) ever increasingly expensive and endless top-tier product lines, and sell well they do. It's ironic really, that in a day where 5 year old processor architecture is nearly as capable and relevant as the day it was released, that the 'overclocking' and 'enthusiast' scene is larger than it ever has been.

 

Those marketing schemes are only effective with the ignorant consumer sector that does not know any better. Those terms are being misused to take advantage of the people that are looking for something better and have no clue what they should be looking for. Everyone starts as a noob and develops their knowledge, talent and experience as an enthusiast, which places those poor folks in a position of being cheated on both ends of the spectrum. They are lied to on the front end and end up with a product incapable of doing what they want to do on the back end.

The hobby itself hasn't changed and the shrinking pool of capable enthusiast-grade overclockable hardware is more powerful today than it ever has been. The enthusiasts that know what overclocking is all about and how to do it know better, and that's why we're so pissed about the bulk of the trash that is being sold under the guise of being something special. Having crippled hardware and firmware is bad enough, but when the OEMs intentionally lie and misrepresent the stuff they sell it adds insult to injury. The blatant lies and misrepresentations are unfortunately too common where the marketing of "gaming notebooks" is concerned.

A great example of marketing lies and misrepresentation is the GT80S Titan. It has a pair of excellent GPUs, an inadequate cooling system, incompetent power delivery and a wimpy BGA turd CPU. MSI boasts about a pathetic 4.1GHz overclock capability as though that is something worth crowing about. The shills that do the reviews are more than happy to help perpetuate the lies and present this engineering abortion to consumers as being the best and baddest, when that is completely false. Contrast that GT80S with the Eurocom Sky X9 equipped with a desktop 6700K, unlocked Prema BIOS, 200W GTX 980 desktop GPU on MXM... a machine that easily achieves face-melting 4.7GHz overclocking performance, handles the thermals like a champ, delivers truly enthusiast level performance and 660W of available power instead of a morphodite hybrid charging system.

 

Intel is the one moving to BGA chips for as many sectors as they can. What's the point in blaming the computer makers? They can only purchase what Intel sells, or move to AMD, and AMD is not a popular, powerful, power sipping, or have the ability to provide as many chips as Intel.

Unless a company wants to make fully custom chips using desktop components there is nothing that can be done about CPU's being BGA now. I'd expect that 80% of people generally don't even know or care that this change is even being made. So you are talking about 20% of an already not very large sector of the laptop market. Same goes for the GPU's, most people are getting a new laptop in 3yrs anyway, so what is the point of making a swappable GPU when not many actually ake advantage of that even if they know its possible, and most people will likely be getting a new laptop by the time their current GPU is "to slow" anyway?

It's the same reason that Ford is again stopping production of the Taurus. Sure some would buy it, but not enough to warrant the production cost.

 

That's not 100% accurate @altecX because not everyone is going down the crappy BGA road. Eurocom offers more than one laptop with a socketed unlocked desktop K or X CPU, so those OEMs that are selling the BGA trash are just wimping out on us and making up all sorts of marketing lies and offering silly gimmicks to try to fake us out and making believe the BGA junk is just as good. And, that que sera sera attitude about embracing anemic BGA garbage is part of what gets us in a mess like this to begin with.

 

Ultimately, I think it comes down to that Alienware no longer caters to the 5 percent who are looking to go to the extreme with their products anymore. There are plenty of other places where one can get a laptop that will fit those needs however, so I don't necessarily think everything is as bad as it seems. There are plenty of options for everyone, and if there is a niche that needs to be filled, someone will step up and fill it if there is money and business to be had.

 

There's only 1 other now, that's Sager. I don't have a problem with BGA being an option. It's a problem when it's just about the only thing on offer. There's no good reason for BGA to exist. As a consumer there's no good reason to like it.

 

I cannot understand why any bonafide enthusiast would like BGA or consider it acceptable. It doesn't compute (pun intended).

 

Why design (Asus) a 17 inch gaming laptop with a slim/lighter design when the same laptop must have a massive cooling dock as a substitute for better internal cooling??? Same principle on a Aw laptop as well. Better processor cooling if you can connect the laptop to a graphics amplifier. Soldered hardware in a laptop is only helping to destroy the cooling in a gaming laptop. More external hardware used mean only weaker cooling in the laptop because OEM's can shrink the laptop design. Read what Notebookcheck said in the final conclusion in the review of Asus with the cooling dock...everything is damn right in this conclusion. BGA hardware are helping to destroy for proper cooling in a laptop. The reason is obvious. BGA HARDWARE MADE the entire BASIS FOR A slim LAPTOP DESIGN aka worse internal cooling. A big enough reason to want BGA to hell.

 

I think the answer is clear is that you don't represent the average enthusiast. You're in the minority of extreme enthusiasts. That's certainly not a bad thing, but just not representative of the group as a whole.

Yeah, that is true. I think the market is just headed away from the desktop processor in a laptop design.

 

the question I am asking is will Alienware or anyone else make an 18 inch SLI laptop again? That Eurocom looks awesome but I have no interest in a 17 inch laptop. Yes, I mainly game hooked to a monitor but for the rare times I am not, I want an 18 inch screen like my current AW18. Besides, it just makes it a little more "special". Reinforces the beastiness of it. Oh, the MSI Titan does not count.

 

I think there are quite a few of us that want 18 inch screens, but there are hardly any options available. I agree... adds a lot to the beast factor. I think there is only one 18-incher available now, and it's not an extraordinarily good quality option. Yeah, MSI Titan is a BGA jokebook.

 

What is the thickest and heaviest you would consider for your laptop?

 

An enthusiast is by definition, simply someone that takes a particular interest in a topic or subject.

Let me speak frankly because it appears that my prior points were lost.

Upgrading a laptop is so cost-ineffective that I don't mind that they're BGA. I have never desired to upgrade the GPU or CPU in the gaming laptops I've owned. That doesn't to me indicate I'm not an enthusiast, I just means I have different values than you.
edit2;
Just to further solidify my points. If your definition of an enthusiast is someone that values upgradeability, then by this merit the 2015 Alienware lineup is the most enthusiast oriented laptop by Alienware ever. It's absolutely the most upgradeable (with eGPUs) by far than any Generation prior ever. More in line to what I discussed before; given how long a run sandy bridge has remained relevant, I would easily say that anyone owning one of these machines in combination with an eGPU will easily outlast any dedicated MXM and socketed processor design laptop, and they'll be doing it for 1/2 the price in the long-term.

edit1;

Probably around the 90th percentile of the entire Laptop industry would say you're wrong, stuff like the Intel Compute stick, raspberry pi and AIO boom would also like to interject.

 

Good luck with fixing a BGA turd short of buying a motherboard when something craps out. And, good luck squeezing an overclock from a wimpy BGA CPU to a level high enough to get excited about. The eGPU doesn't really qualify as an upgrade option. You're tethering a compromised notebook to a desk and using the eGPU as a crutch. Disconnect it and try to do anything amazing with it and you're out of luck. And, there's a lot more for a benching/overclocking enthusiast to be interested in than a GPU. That's only one of several important components.

Yes, we have different values. That's neither right nor wrong, just different. Intel Compute stick, raspberry pi and that kind of stuff, for me, is like watching paint dry. I'm not an enthusiast when it comes to low powered devices. I am resentful of the fact that Alienware has wimped out and only offers what I and others like me view as trash. I don't care if they offer the junk (my opinion) to the people that want it, but that's all they offer. Therefore, they no longer value me and others like me as customers. Fair enough... I've moved on. But, I'll still calls the balls and strikes as I see them.

If I wanted BGA trash, I would buy an MSI Titan some other half-hearted attempt at a high-performance notebook that at least has MXM cards. It doesn't qualify because the CPU makes it incompetent and undesirable to me.

The fact that many consumers, including some folks that like to call themselves "extreme" gamers, would rather buy disposable stuff rather than keep a more powerful and robust product going with upgrades and save money owning something stronger is beyond my comprehension or control, but the fact remains that their non-chalant view on the matter is part of the reason we're in a terrible mess with very few products being offered that I and others like me find exciting or worthy of consideration. I have machines that are several years old that will still mop the floor with them because they are severely compromised products. An eGPU cannot make up the difference.

If someday I actually want an eGPU in spite of already having far superior upgrade options with sockets and slots, the Sky X9 has a Thunderbolt port that will support that better than Alienware's proprietary option.

 

For me, anecdotal of course, most failures have been at the board level anyway, I've rarely have had a cpu go bad. Is the thunderbolt port on the AW 17 proprietary? This is a serious question, because I've looked around and haven't seen anything that suggests it is.

I think my top limit is 10 pounds, not including the power brick. Anything more then that, and I feel that you might as well buy a desktop.

 

Motherboards with soldered hardware is an expensive pleasure if you have not paid for an extension of the warranty. Many have gone into this trap before... The range of newer/used motherboards with the harware you have are also limited at the web. Example of prices.

What if you need your 2, 3 or 4 motherboard before you are satisfied? As this guy with this under a yar old BGA machine <AW17R2>... Lovely with soldered hardware? No.

 

That's actually less then I thought it would be for a soldered on proc. Clearly its better if you get the warranty so you don't have to deal with it if you're that concerned about it. As far as going through motherboards, I would be upset if I had to go through that with any company, BGA or non BGA board included. I'm not really sure what kind of argument you're trying to make there.

 

Perhaps the risk of multiple breakdowns are bigger with used motherboards purchased with both CPU and GPU soldered? With none soldered hardware you can only buy a dead motherboard...Fully BGA you can risk the possibility of dead processor, GPU or motherboard in the same package... And this perhaps without a warranty. Bigger risk of a bad purchase and in addition a small range of used motherboards with exactly your hardware specs and also pricier. Same processor and gpu on the motherboard as you want can be a problem to obtain. Maybe you must buy what is advertised and not what you want of specs. Nice. And what about your processor/gpu you could Oc nicely but the new one on the used motherboard is useless for same overclocking/under voltage profiles you had. This is a bad choice of hardware into an high end laptop. This can be expensive in the end. And with more problems.

 

That's true, I'll give you that. If your board breaks down and you're out of warranty, it will certainly be harder and more expensive to repair by yourself if you decide to buy used equipment. However, I don't think most people, or even enthusiasts, would be willing to crack open their laptop and replace the board anyway, but I definitely see what you're saying.

 

I think our definitions of "enthusiast" are very different and because that is a relative and subjective term, the use of it leads to an awful lot of misunderstanding.

Cracking cases open, fixing whatever gets broken, making them better... stronger... faster... overclocking, modding, upgrading... that's a PC enthusiast. There are a lot of people like that in this community and at Tech|Inferno. Are they outnumbered by gamers? Probably so. And likewise, gamers are outnumbered by people that don't play games on computers, and don't own computers powerful enough to do a good job of playing games. Ordinary describes the majority, which are neither gamers nor PC enthusiasts, and the term pathetic inadequately describes the anemic computing products they use.

Now, if you're referring to gamers as "enthusiasts" then by that definition, it is probably accurate to say we are not going to see a lot of those folks tinkering with hardware and firmware. Those guys might be really serious about playing games and really good at it, but they are not really an enthusiast by my definition, or in the context of discussion about how crappy BGA is, and how having sockets and slots is superior. They are absolutely not enthusiasts when it comes to PC hardware, and it shows by the way they think and the words that come out of their mouths. They're just consumers with higher expectations, but ultimately only want a nicer than average device to play games with, which is an apples to oranges comparison.

Alienware built a strong reputation on serving the needs of high performance notebook enthusiasts. They don't any more and they are merely riding the wave of that reputation, milking it as much as they can now. They have abandoned their first love and those that made their once amazing brand relevant. That's the basis of the hate and discontent, and it's not directed at fellow customers. It's directed again the OEMs--all of them, not just Alienware--that are no longer meeting our expectations with the sadly incapable and disposable products they offer. We can debate the evils of BGA until the cows come home and BGA will never be acceptable to or embraced by performance PC enthusiasts no matter what brand name is on the label.

 

Fair enough, although I would say we could even differentiate then by "desktop" and "laptop" enthusiasts. I certainly like to tinker with my desktop, but I generally don't really dig into my laptop unless I absolutely need to since it's more for work then play, so that probably puts me somewhere between enthusiast and gamer. But yes, I can agree that BGA is not as good socketed cpus for overclocking and pure performance, at least not currently.

 

If people wanted to throw a fit over this then it should have been done when ultrabooks came out because it was then that soldered chips became the standard and the fact that it's now moving to higher end laptops, and if Intel has its way some desktops, should not be anyone's surprise.

Personally, I have had quite a few gaming desktops, every time they got outdated I just harvested RAM/PSU/Drives/Case and then bought a new MB/CPU/GPU. I see no reason this will really hurt anything as really the market of people that actually do swap laptop parts is so small that it's not at all amazing that companies are starting to not care about them. They are not worth caring about from a budgeting point of view.

More and more gamers are "casual" gamers or gamers that know very little about hardware, and frankly, they don't want to. THAT is the market now. Look at streaming sites, and the people that make high views, they know almost nothing abut the computers they run. They just game, get ad revenue and push brands that donate to them. That is where the money is, not the 1 in every 1000 gamers that actually understands technology and wants to upgrade the GPU in his laptop.

If that is what you want then go to a boutique shop. not a mainstream one. That said, least Alienware was not utterly destroyed by Dell like Voodoo was by HP.

 

What i see here is not necessarily alienware being "bad" per se, they are taking a very asus-like approach where they just lazy out and solder everything (although asus is still breaking barriers in their own strange way). Alienware is no longer a forerunner in the technology race. Alienware was one of the last to implement the gtx 900m series in their laptops, and are once again the last to have a "halo product" with a desktop cpu/desktop gpu. Almost every other decent gaming laptop manufacturer is using the desktop 980s at least, and some cases like the sager have a desktop cpu. Alienware is no longer "trying" from my view. This makes it enough of a reason to no longer support a company who doesnt see progress as good.

Hell, they are slowly getting into the same boat as acer laptops LOL, now thats just tragic.

 

I don't remember seeing you around here that much until recently, but we did that... in a big way... bitterly complained, and harshly criticized ASUS and MSI for it long before Alienware went BGA. Alienware saw it, if they were paying attention... but, they went ahead and screwed us anyway. There were many trolls visiting our subculture that were not Alienware customers, expressing wishes that Alienware would produce thin and light gamer-boy crapbooks like Razer, MSI, Aorus, etc. Having that option available for those that want it is all fine and dandy, but they listened to the voices of outsiders only, and tossed the baby out with the bath water. I see that as betrayal and promoting the wrong people into positions of decision-making power, but I suspect they initially viewed it internally as fresh leadership with vision and innovation. That's how it often works out... a small group of empire-building executive monkeys in the ivory tower calling the shots.

People keep saying that, but it's not representative of the behavior we see in this community. Maybe it's not the majority taking all customers everywhere into account, but it's enough they would pay attention if they cared. I see it from a different angle. I think it is 100% malicious and self-serving to help them BLOCK upgrades on the chance of increasing their volume SELLING more trash. They have competitors that are seizing the opportunity of catering to those of us that were left for dead, with upgradable systems and the parts to upgrade them.

So, unfortunately, like many areas of life, we live and die at the hands of the lowest common denominators in society, the ignorant, the timid and the complacent. And, a sizable lot that just don't care. Nice!

Those that do care are already jumping ship and going where the getting is good. True, they haven't pulled an HP on us... yet. I have no doubt that some find consolation in that. I almost think we would be better off if they had, and we would certainly have less to talk about if they had. At least we could reminisce about the good old days with untainted memories rather than watching the slow death of a once great brand.

I think almost everything you're saying is very accurate, which is terribly painful for those of us that were once strong brand advocates for what used to be the best of the best.

 

I think we MUST replace the term <enthusiasts> to <Hardcore users> as Notebook Check-review says in the final comment in the reviews of latest Asus BGA machine... This honorary designation/term is now worn out/been watered down by a lot of users.... I think we should use the term <hardcore users>for those who are the real performance enthusiasts who love proper hardware aka fully socket hardware and (making them better... stronger... faster... overclocking, modding, upgrading etc)...

 

It is simple. BGA everything for money. You won't replace your CPU (very hard) or GPU (impossible) so you have to buy new laptop like a true american should do.

I think it's not far from BGA desktop as they're preparing for it using lower class CPUs. It's only matter of time because there is no competition.

 

True Americans are not stupid, but they are becoming a minority since idiots are allowed to breed and replicate themselves. There are retarded consumers and Kool-Aid drinkers in every country. The "true Americans" are why the world has so many awesome things, but they end up getting fouled up by idiots from around the globe.

 

Thing is, these companies all know how idiotic most of the consumer base is. Take Apple, man I could go on and on about this company and my hatred for them. But honestly, it's the idiots that continue to buy their crap that are to blame. You get a company who releases a new laptop or phone each year, a half a millimeter thinner than the year before. Because of how thin they are, they lack ports, lack expandability, strip more and more functions from them every year. They have crappy battery life (phones) they use tech that is 3-4 years old, call them revolutionary and charge 2000 bucks for the damn thing. And millions of idiots buy them. They have literally turned the tide and convinced people to pay more and more for less and less every year. It blows my mind how pathetic it is. Yet they get away with it because people are stupid. This is why they can miss all sales expectations for the quarter and still post record profits because their consumers pay more and more for older, weaker, less capable tech. But hey, it's thinner..woo freakin woo !!

This is crossing over into many industries including gaming. Problem is that some of those idiots are the ones running the company's now. PC gaming is actually rising while all other PC sales and revenue declines. So instead of releasing kick ass tech for the people that are actually spending thousands on the PC gaming industry, the idiots running the the show decide to "dumb" down their products, appeal more towards the casual market and alienate the ones who truly spend the money. (Ask Nintendo how many casual gamers and up being repeat customers) Take Dell with the AW line of products. They were the holy grail of gaming systems for a decade, the ones every gamer wished they could afford. So now they move to the more casual side of things in an attempt to sell another 200k or so laptops per year. When the market clearly is showing that they could go back to the extreme side and the PC gaming community is ready and willing to spend the money on those products. They are literally going in the opposite direction of what the market shows they should. Might work for a year or 2, but eventually the numbers won't. Add up. The amount of sales they get on an average price product of $1500 will not end up making up for the loss of sales they would have on a average $3000-4000 product. Eventually the line gets discontinued completely as it's just not economically feasible to support. And the idiots who made those decisions won't understand what went wrong.

It happens every single time a company decides to go more mainstream. Yet, the idiots making these decisions, the same idiots who think it's smart to support a company by paying twice as much for half the product, are now the ones making these decisions that are ruining companies reputations, alienating their loyal fan base and ultimately killing off once beloved product lines. Not to mention hurting the industry as a whole as well. Unfortunately, you see this in all aspects of life now. It is sad, the idiots run the show

 

Frankly, I'm surprised business class desktop machines are not ALL BGA already. I don't know of any company that keeps them over 4-5yrs at most or bothers to change out the CPU in them. That is a massive market where only the "workstation" and very high-end desktop really would have any reason to be socket machines.

 

You know the only manufacturer left that does produce upgradable laptops next to MSI and lesser extent Alienware, Clevo hardly has any market share to speak off. So seizing the opportunity? It is the last manufacturer that might struggle in the near future to keep their company afloat while laptop sales plummet. If it was profitable they would keep making these machines. But the truth is, it hardly is and for such a big company as Dell it is simply hardly feasible anymore. But your post almost sounds cult like and very colored. The large majority asked for more portable laptops and got them. Complain that you arent the majority anymore or live with it. It will not change. Unfortunately Intel also has a large part in this problem by not manufacturing socketed laptop CPU's anymore. Thus forcing companies as Clevo to make even more thick laptops with the proper cooling to offer upgradable laptops.

I hope for you guys AMD will rise up strong and do offer low power socketed CPU's or else there will be no more laptops for you guys to tinker with (a small group I am sure off though).

Too expensive and machines need the ability to be serviced. The thing is that people want laptops to be portable and upgradable machines are not very portable. This is not the case with desktops. Also a large industry would collapse which would hurt Intel in the end. Motherboard manufacturers for example took a stand against these plans. Companies that now drive a large part of the profit that Intel makes aka the gamers.

 

Yeah, I dunno about that, it would be easier for a tech to just replace a board rather then having to troubleshoot the whole system, which generally means more downtime for the customer. It would definitely be more expensive to do that though.

 

Also for the manufacturer ofcourse. Motherboards with CPU's included are not cheap. In general CPU's are not parts that breakdown. Motherboards however with cheap caps are notorious. Business machines often still not use solid caps just to save costs.

 

All the rationalizing about the reasons won't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Trash is going to be trash no matter how they color it with marketing hype. As more and more people figure out they were gullible and bought garbage because they valued form over function, the silly infatuation with "portability" (meaning thin and light to the point of being crippled and prone to problems) will, hopefully, go away. Or, maybe I am too optimistic and giving the masses too much credit for having more smarts tucked away under their silly Kool-Aid drinking shells than I should be. Only time will tell.

Compromise almost always sucks and translates into settling for something less than ideal. When it comes to relationships with people, compromise has a place... it helps us all live in peace and not feel compelled to kill one another. When it comes to products I purchase, compromise is totally unacceptable to me. I'd rather do without than lower my standards. As long as I can have what I want, when I want it, and not have to tolerate trash as the only available option I will be good to go. Sadly, it can no longer be with an Alienware. I disagree with the criticism of Clevo. As long as their competitors remain lame and keep producing garbage, I think their position in the market will only grow stronger.

With companies like Eurocom driving innovation and performance to the next level, the notebook computing world will still have something that enthusiasts (the hardcore kind, to be clear) find satisfying available to them.

That's why I own one of these... (with 4930K and 980M SLI, not a Xeon and Quadro)
[parsehtml]<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JFxi77CG75Y?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/parsehtml]...and plan to acquire one of these...
[parsehtml]<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dlwcwjYERKE?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/parsehtml]And, this is also a fantastic option, although not on the same scale of wicked as the two above.
[parsehtml]<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1fpCL7EcHY0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/parsehtml]

 

The battery runtime son those machines and the portability are compromises just the compromises you are willing to make. You just dont want to lose that bit more performance over other machines.

But these are really not made for taking with you everyday. Except if you lay it in your car next to you ofcourse.

I just find this to be a very one sided view. The numbers are in this thread pretty much the only thing that count for a laptop. But the majority do need that form over function because they stimply need to take it everywhere with them. The ideal situation in my opinion would be just laptops that are fairly portable with at least a swappable GPU. CPU is could care less since the architecture changes every 2 years anyway thus making it impossible to find a real upgrade for that.

 

Between my M18xR1 and M18xR2, I probably have at least 200,000 air miles and well over 400 hotel nights and never once wished they were smaller or lighter, or less powerful. The couple of trips I took without them because they were short and hectic travel itineraries, I regretted leaving them at home. Kind of like American Express... never leave home without it.

I understand there are less expensive systems that, for example, a college student can tuck under their arm and run all day on battery. That's good... they need that. I don't want or need that option. That's why I've switched brands. Alienware doesn't offer anything that I value any more. It's not because I hate them. I still love the M18xR1, M18xR2 and Alienware 18. It's jut a shame they threw the baby out with the bath water... but, oh well. Thank God for Eurocom and their monster machines with @Prema firmware mods. Thanks to them, life is still good for Mr. Fox and people like him.

 

That Panther laptop looks like it's right out of 2001. So many Gaming laptops look just huge and gaudy. Sex sells, and if you make a damn nice looking like top, like Razer, you will get market, and there is NO reason that no one can make a large laptop look nice and professional.

There is no need for huge LEDs and blinking lights and random sharp edges all over the place. They all look like they are trying to do a take on a laptop version of an SR-71 Blackbird, which yes is still a timeless design, but it's also from the 60's and wasn't' really seen as "cool" until the 80's.

If you want a upgradeable laptop to sell well enough that you can afford to stay in business then stop going after the basement nerd market and make something that's actually attractive. That's the largest reason of why I never really bought a gaming laptop until the Razer Blade. it may still have a company logo, but it doesn't look embarrassing to hold. If it wasn't for the fact the AW 17 R3 I just got would rarely be leaving the house I'd have bought another Razer.

STOP MAKING MACHINES THAT LOOK EMBARASSING!

 

A lot of that is personal opinion, and not everyone is embarrassed about something that is bold-looking. I cannot think of many guys that would be excited about marrying a super-model carrying numerous STDs or that has a really bad disposition and is a nightmare to live with just because she looks fantastic. But, I'm sure there are at least a few that would.

Some people like hybrid cars for their miserly, tree-hugger pleasing, alternative power attributes (never mind their exorbitant ancillary costs), some like European sports cars, some like American muscle cars, some like street rods, some antiques and classics, some like monster trucks and some just want basic transportation. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The bigger questions are, "What are you enthusiastic about?" and "What are your expectations?" We already know some value form over function, thus we have people that are crazy about the thin and light (although easy to handle) space heaters the likes of Razer or Aorus laptops. Others are obsessed with function (performance). Some just don't have a clue what they want, and some want it all, meaning looks and performance that kill. The toughest one is the last one, and the sad thing is most of the available options require that one make a choice between the lesser of evils.

The Panther is a very unique and high-specialized, although blocky old-school looking machine that is primarily designed to be a mobile server. Its appearance is totally fine in a business environment, and its behavior more than offsets its homely appearance. But, it supports components that meet the demands of extreme performance enthusiasts/overclockers in addition to those that need a mobile server. When it comes to performance notebooks, nothing can touch the Panther, but the Sky X9 comes close. Looks are secondary when face-melting performance is job #1. The Panther is awesome and those that love it don't care about how it looks. It is 100% portable and it is a beast... 'nuff said. Likewise, there is nothing attractive about some of the extreme performance enthusiast desktops, as many are open-frame benching rigs.

In my opinion, the Sky X9 is attractive and so is the Sky DLX7. They have an aggressive edge to them, show-stopping extreme performance potential, superior components, upgradability, serviceability and portability, and lights can be turned off if doing so is ever important.

 

There's this thing - It's not just because of the profits /margins dell made the shift - It's because of Dell going private started in the year 2013, That's the point where the things took wrong turn. Dell's Precision before is another example of downgrade, they made the best in class business grade machines with top quality parts and the legendary M18x R2 / M17x R4 enjoyed so many upgrades and the Insyde H20 BIOS which was only offered in Alienware, nowhere else has that robust BIOS tech later-on the 2013 was the last year AW made DTRs and even the Precision faded with the crippling of AW ranger, viking 2013 machines with using the advanced BIOS features and locking down the CPU OCing (They advertise OC levels, but block in BIOS using that secure flash feces, even after tons of requests they didn't care the sign was clear..now looking at where they stand is just awful. They betrayed their mother, after hundreds of bashing posts here AW realized the dumbest move to not include the 230W adapter with the i7 and 980m - 17 R2)

Intel's scrapping off the FGPA lineup didn't made the Dell compromise, The tech giant corporations can change or keep the market as it is I think they can have the FPGA CPUs still but alas ! the market changes with the people and the collective thoughts and sadly people change, with Mr. Gates gone as CEO the M$ is the next blunder. The latest virus is this Windoze X Spyware edition, the M$ dropping support for new hardware just plain trash, advertising DX12 is just too dumb we all know that DX12 wouldn't improve much on HEDT or comparable HW...

ASUS using that soldered trash is just stupid, great in the DT realm but laptops, a pile of messy restricted laptops, so are MSI with their titan (common a 980 SLI GPUs x2 with an i7 shipping a 330W ? ROFL, I get that BGA is trash but this is heights of idiocy ).. BGA means not only anti user upgradeable but Intel silently puts trash binned CPUs, They can't hold the advertised clocks at all and the TDR limits, they are a strict no for a smart person.
Sadly this subforum, it was very active before the 980M now it's just dull and slowly dying, check out clevo subforums and you'll know what's the potential of the 2016 tech DTR machines .

Even Nvidia got their knees after the pre 347.xx clock block fiasco bashing here and change.org, still they don't change the 970's BS and now this Geforced experience with the worst possible driver releases ever.

To put simply people need to change. . Thus the evolution happens.
Amen.

 

Dell don't sell 200k of their AWbooks every year... Only 100k. This isn't a lot of gaming laptops sold from a big company. DELLIENWARE is a small seller of gaming laptops and with further crippling of their gaming laptops maybe the sale going down to maybe 75-80k each year. Remember Evga will also have a big bite of the cake with their new Apple thin gaming laptop. I think Clevo will grow further because they can give something everyone want... Performance as in desktops. And this is not possible if you buy a slim, lightweight laptop. You must choose one of the parts. Either get desktop performance or a neater design. A choice you self need to take.

 

But why Clevo didn't renewed P180HM!? WHY!?

 

Yes, we'll see if people will want the desktop performance with higher weight and lower battery life, or slightly lower performance and better battery life and lower weight. Next few years should be interesting.

 

Yes You can't use a 200w desktop cards in a Razer or Aw Echo laptop design. You need to eat some compromises along the way. Some people prefer the shape before performance But not all.