This is what Dell needs to do: LISTEN to it's customers!

So I was just reading over the new HP Envy blog and they discuss at length what was missed in their original Envy line and how they listened to customer feedback and improved the new Envy 14 and 17.

Many of us AW fans have voiced an interest in Dell improving the Alienware line but we never get any real feedback from Dell. It seems the company does whatever it perceives is best for the bottom line and not in the interest of it's customer (e.g. 5850 Mobility for the M15x rather than 5870M and the throttled bios releases).

Specifically, IMO, it seems Dell is getting ready to position AW as a mass gaming brand like Asus and in doing so will likely diminish the brands value and build quality (see M11x) in the process.

Most of us that own M15x/M17x realize the value in having a metal based notebook. Once you go metal, there's no way you can go back to a plastic notebook. It seems even HP agrees with us and here's what they wrote:

Take note of that key word Dell, it's what distinguishes Alienware from the rest of the pack. HP is listening to their customers, it's about time you did too:

 

The bottom line...that's what the stock holders care about right or wrong and corporations like Dell will do what it takes to meet the bottom line especially in an economy like we have now I can see this happening. Hopefully, there will be enough outcry from this and other forums on this. Keeping metal and staying on top of cutting edge technology is what Alienware should be!

 

Bottom line matters of course but it doesn't or shouldn't come at the cost of a product that customers purchase. M15x owners have been getting the short end of the stick from the beginning, I was one of them at one point. If HP can pull off an all metal notebook at a reasonable price, there's no reason Dell can't do the same with AW while maintaining the premium build quality and brand name.

Even SXPS 16 owners had to suffer for a long time because of artificial bios limits and it took until now to finally sort it out. Guys like Bill B have been great and worked closely with customers but if it wasn't for the initial push and outcry from the community (and thanks to Kevin, the author of throttlestop for creating a stop gap program), this issue would have never been dealt with--and it shouldn't have been an issue to start.

Finally, considering the price the M11x sells for ($1000+ for a loaded one), they could have easily made it entirely a mag alloy or aluminum design and still maintained a decent weight and price. If anyone has ever taken apart an M17x completely (I have), you'd quickly realize the aluminum chasis has very little weight contrary to popular belief. Dell has done a fine job with the M17x-R2 overall, lets hope they keep that design philosophy for the rest of their line in the future.

 

Excuse me but what is the purpose of this thread ? Has Dell come up with the whimsical idea of building upcoming alienware models with all-plastic cases or something ?

 

Yes. In addition, the purpose of the thread is to point out that HP is creating metal notebooks at reasonable prices. Most people tend to blame the M11x plastic build on it's weight or price but if HP can do it, so can Dell. Plus I discussed other issues that have been bothering me for a while (M15x). Overall I'm disappointed with the direction Dell took with it. Latest A05 bios is throttling more than ever and despite customers outcry for a bios fix, it's been ignored. Then to top that off, they threw a 5850 into the mix....I feel bad for M15x owners. Let's not even bring up M17x-R1 owners, those guys have been suffering since that train wreck was released and Dell still continues to sell it despite acknowledging it's defects.

 

Dell should be able to offer the products we want with the various options considering we are willing to pay the premium for the top of the line buuild choices.

They could also offer a lower priced option for the budget minded.

It's too bad they did not leave the AW division intact (at least the design), but there were also some improvements with Dells upgrade policies taking over Vs the AW policy of voiding warranty with customer installed upgrades, and warranty transfer.

 

Well if Dell plans on switching to plastic cases I'd be well advised to get a m15x now... the metal build is one of the many reason I think it looks a 1000 times better than say Asus G73...

 

hey joker, where did u hear that the new model will have plastics? im currently waiting for the dual 5870s M17x, but if the new models come out with 5870s and plastic, i should rather just get the 4870s.. do you know when its supposed to come out?

 

Whether they decide to or not we'll see. The point is look at the M11x, it's already 90% plastic. Some people are fine with that but considering the price point, it could have easily been built better and should have. Again, I mentioned that listening to customer feedback is important. Any regular can tell you that the M15x has been largely ignored, the M17x-R1 still has no resolution (most likely nVidia's fault) and rather than discontinue it, it's being sold even when they've acknowledged it's problems.

How many people do you think would want a crippled M15x over an HP Envy 17? I know I'd go with the latter at this point. Thinner form factor, high quality metal and same video card with a bigger display. I think the weight is comparable too.

 

It was something mentioned in a conversation a long time ago. I don't know if they went with plastic or not so I'm not saying that. But if the M11x is any indication, I wouldn't count on an aluminum chasis for the next M17x.

 

Pitchforks and torches its what this its gonna take to fix.

I wont have my first alienware in my hands until thursday, but solid metal in electronics do scream high quality and class. I wish my phone was all metal for sure. However once I get my laptop in sure I will be spoiled and never want any non metal laptop ever again.
I agree withe hemi in the stockholder part.they do'nt buy laptops, they technically buy the money that we use to but said laptop metal is'nt in their agenda.

 

This is an important thread. I sincerely hope the right people at Dell read this, and heed the warning it implies.

 

ok. and yeah i do 100% agree with you. M15x was a disaster... look at the touchpad... throttle.... unresponsive touch strip...... .....

 

Totally agree. Dell has enough potential to raise the bar.
I'd also very much like to see different screen types as options in the future AW line (glare/anti-glare/RGB LED/IPS/RGBY/OLED/etc) since consumers have different purposes for the systems, not just 100% gaming. For example, some use their beasts both for programming and gaming, they don't need the pro graphics (we have Precision series for that) but would definitely benefit from the CF/SLI configs in combination with a good AG RGB LED or IPS.

Another point - the weight and dimensions.
Metal notebooks are not always too heavy or thick. Take M6500 or better yet HP 8740w/30w. Fully metal, dust-humidity-spill-shock-pressure-resistant cases, only about 4cm thick and ~4kg fully configured. And still way cheaper than the M6500, considering the better screen option.

I think HP is going the right direction and both Dell and Clevo should follow. I'm switching to HP for a time being and will make a comparative review between the screens, build quality, cooling, etc. Stay tuned.

+1 rep to Joker for this important thread!

 

I'd be happy with a Core-i Alienware system that actually works. My experience with the M17xR2 has been disappointing and if they can get them to work right I would then worry about build quality.

 

I agree with Akimox, the matte option should be there for those that want it. Mandrake brings up a good point: QC needs work. While my M17x's have worked out of the box just fine, others haven't been as lucky. The initial flickering that happened should not have been missed if proper QC was in place. Now take a look at the M15x bricking (this has now happened twice since the M15x has been available) going on with A05 + Alienware CC.

My suggestion to Dell would be: Get yourselves some proper hardware and software testers. The ones you have now are obviously doing a terrible job if they're missing such obvious flaws. The NBR community has plenty of people that could fill that role. Secondly, listen to what customers are asking otherwise you will lose them, the competition is getting fierce and Dell's sales show a decline in market share compared to HP/Asus and the rest.

 

Although I love my AW and its working perfectly, I'm always thinking ahead to my next purchase and right now it doesn't look like it will be another Dell or AW unless theres some drastic change. Other companies are catching up or have already surpassed them in different aspects. Its only a matter of time before it becomes a 2-3 horse race. IMO competition is good for all of us, and people should speak up when they don't like a direction a company is taking.

 

Ive owned a few HP laptops and were very impressed all round.....build quality price and excellent support. Ive never owned a DELL or Alienware DELL but get the impression they dont listen to their customers as much as they should.

Dell will lose out if it does not take heed.

Nice thread Joker as always.

ps, love the new avatar Mandrake!

 

So far I like the M15 as I have got it the design does not worry me as much as how it handles it self. An all metal case would have been nice but not needed for me.

I also dislike the mouse pad & clickers on the M15 they are horrible to use. When I first got it the clicker is extremely hard to click and the pad is jumpy. I edited the setting to make it bareable but I had to buy a mouse.

 

well i have owned my M15x and just recently am now able to enjoy it since i was able to find a very suitable fix for audio issues i was having by using the M17x nvidia beta drivers(r1). imo this laptop is great but if dell continues on this path of maximum profit they will lose(using improper hardware i.e. sound card). also from the look of hp's envy i actually have envy for the next one that is to be release in that line up. So its fair to say my next laptop is probably not going to be an AW.

 

Dell is like Wal-Mart. They have great technology, at cheap prices. No one can touch Dell in terms of technology/price. I think that they are always sourcing by price point only; and it comes back to haunt them from time to time.

I think that some of the throttling that we're seeing is an effort to keep these machines from nuking themselves, aside from the inadequate power issues that we've seen on the XPS 1645 and M15X.

If they do not change, they will destroy this brand; or at least change it to the point of being unrecognizable.

They're run like IBM of the 80's too big, and too slow to react.

They have some great people that work for them, think Bill; but their corporate culture is big and bloated; and their are too many layers between the end users and the decision makers.

I do hope that they take heed, and produce some solid, exciting products; and learn from their mistakes, think M11X.

We'll see.

 

I'm with s0ysauce45, I'm not looking to purchase another laptop for another 4-5 years. I got my fiancee a Studio 1458 and myself a M15x. Those will last us for quite some time and when the time comes to retire them, I most likely won't be going Dell/Alienware if they are still operating like the present.

 

After all of the problems I have had with dell's quality control and repair people and so on. They really need to revamp their entire system as well as shorten the length of time that technology reaches their customers. It's ridiculous that other competitors with less resources have the ability to offer newer and better technology than them. What a joke Dell. Let's hope someone reads this.

On a brighter note, Villosa: Love the avatar... Welcome aboard the Normandy, Captain Shepard.

 

I'm seriously awaiting the release of the M17x 5870's in Crossfire. I hope all this talk of plastic materials and quality control is fixed before I make my purchase.

I already have a matte plastic G73JH that I'm comfortable with at the moment. In some ways I think it is too bland for a gamers enthusiasts notebook. The reason I am drawn to the M17x is because in my eyes the M17x seems to be of very high quality. As an enthusiast brand I'm pretty sure that Dell looks at these threads. I'm keeping my fingers crossed

 

Wait, doesn't HP tie Acer for highest hardware failure rates?

 

I think I'm done waiting, dell took too long to release the 5870 cf. that is all i wanted and now for some reason I just don't care anymore. I'll probably still stay on the forums and help out but unless something changes or gets me excited dells not getting my money. in fact no computer company is getting my money. not until sandy.

 

I wouldn't be too cheezed off if AW used less metal in their laptops as I'm more worried about performance and longevity. If I had the choice I'd go with whatever material assists the hardware the best and promotes the best cooling.

 

The feeling I get from dealing with Dell is they don't care about the Alienware brand except that it's a cash cow since people pay a serious premium for it. Getting the systems out the door as fast as possible so they can charge your account seems to be the #1 priority which means QC is seriously impacted.

Two years ago it took 3 attempts to finally get a M1530 with a good LCD. The effort in getting this was frustrating enough that eventually Customer Care sent me a $200 coupon. At the time I decided it was most likely a string of bad luck and forgot about it since they listened.

I ordered my 1st M11x in February and here we are in mid may and I'm now waiting for my 4th system. This time I don't believe it's bad luck, just plain negligence in the QC area and possibly poor structural design of the M11x frame. What are the odds of getting 2 systems in a row with crooked hinges causing the screen to be misaligned and bent?

I've now spent about 30 hours on the phone with Dell, exchanged about 50-60 emails with them and heard lies and misleading information from their sales and support reps. Nobody listen to the customers at Dell anymore, all they care is sales and warm transfers so their call stats look good.

There was another thread asking where we thought Alienware would be in 6 months. I don't know about 6 month from now but unless they start treating the Alienware brand as a premium offering I give them 2 years to ruin it beyond repair. They cut corners with the M11x plastic frame and subpar LCD which doesn't bode well for future iterations of the M15 and M17 if that’s a trend.

This M11x will be my last system, if I keep it, from Dell. I will not be recommending their products any further to friends, family and clients.

 

They sure do a horrible job at getting systems out the door as fast as possible too.

 

Touché.. took them forever to get me a replacement m11x

 

Dell offered me a different SXPS16 as replacement for my 1530... with ultra high specs, then tehy suddenly cancelled it... and started building a "base config" sxps16...
as much as I told them that I dont want a new one, that the previous config was fine, they wouldnt listen. This was a 5 month long battle, which I lost at the end...
Now I've had the computer for a month, and I havnt even turned the SXPS16 on, not even once... I'm selling it like that. Don't want to come near it...
Design wise, its BEAUTIFUL to look at...

Perhaps 3~4 years from now, Dell will tightent their pants, and I might go back to Dell...

 

Tighten their pants?

 

See while Ill agree with the build quality and all metal notebook, I cannot agree with the 5870 in the m15x. If that card is offered in the m15x the only thing that will make people spend alot more money on a m17x is for 10% more pixels and a numpad. Other then that why bother spending money on a huge workstation.

Now as far as quality is concerned I really hope they do not skimp on this as it is one of the main reasons why i chose alienware this time around. I love my dell vostro but there are so few 16:10 notebooks and even fewer numpad 15.6 business class notebooks. So I look to alienware and large business class for the quality, build materials and feel I prefer and have grown accustomed to using. Could I go back to cheap plastic? If I absolutely had to I would have no choice. But Im 100% sure of one thing, if alienware lowers the quality lower then that of what I have currently I wouldn't even think twice about them.

 

Two reasons the M17x R2 will be the last laptop I buy for the next few years, Metal Chasis, 16:10 screen. Without those I would probably not be purchasing another Alienware in the future. Next time I'll probably go with Sager if Alienware goes plastic and 16:9.

One thing dell needs to remember is that Alienware is a cash cow because of the quality. If they loose that, than theres nothing that seperates Alienware from the competitors but the price. That said, most of the market will go with one of the cheaper competitors since there is no incentive for Alienware.

 

AW could become the next "voodoo" of hp....

 

voodoo died when hp absorbed it. I won't be surprised if AW has that happen as well. Not saying that it does but from what happened to voodoo its an indicator of what could happen.

 

Hey Joker you are right ! My first laptop is a gift from my father ,Sony VAIO ( i don't remember a model ) - Sony support is great & driver + build quality is best , i don't have many issues on this ,now , i'm buying Alienware M15X because i believe the brands , but i'm false ... M15X comes with many issues with the poor support from Dell .. I don't know what the he!! are Dell doing ??? they are so blind & deaf ... !

 

Well, to me its kinda clear. I wont get any new notebook unless it has a metal case. Actually, The M15x/17x should have been full aluminium, just like the mac books pro.

Another thing I would definitely make better is the touchpad. These things are really really terrible (as everyone knows) and its kinda kills the "wow" effect of the whole notebook.

Also, the keyboard AlienFX on the alien 51 m15x was a lot better than this one. This one is barely visible in normal daylight.


If AW goes back to plastic, Ill have to go out and look for another premim brand, or give up gaming on notebooks and settle for a mac

 

Ouch! That's hurt!!!

 

Vodoo died because they tried to do a gfx card which required an external power supply and had tons of other problems while nvidia was kicking its . Also, DirectX was another reason why vodoo had problems. Before DirectX vodoo was supplying sdk's for 3d rendering...

 

Heh he means Voodoo the notebook maker, not 3dfx It was a botique gaming brand started by some Indian kid named Rahul Sood (he's still with HP): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahul_Sood

 

I know little about AW's quality but you can be sure that it isn't in the interest of Dell to have non working systems in the hands of unhappy customers.

It cost a them lot of money whenever they have to be on the phone, exchange defective laptops and so forth.

Professionally we have been using Dell for more than 10 years because 1. we have very very few problems (and we used to have IBMs, HPs, ...) and 2. there were never any discussions about replacements/repairs the few times we had problems.

My first true disappointment came with my M4400, which had quite a few problems. But with hindsight and forum readings I came to the conclusion that similarly equipped laptop of other brands often had the same problems. I wonder whether Intel and Nvidia didn't overpromise at the time, notably on thermal dissipation.

In addition, I'm not sure the first generation e-Sata chipsets were 100% compatible with the first external HDs. But then again, nothing compared to the Firewire related nightmares we came to get used to (whatever the brand of computers / peripherals, including Apple)

 

lol yea exactly i remember wanting to buy one of their laptops in early 2004 but then i couldn't lol

 

oh lol. shame on me


Anyways, I guess what most companies are not aware of is that consumers are not loyal to brands but to actual products.

This can easily be seen by looking at consoles. Last generation, Sony had the majority of the console market, the gamecube and the xbox were really small fishes compared to Sony. That all changed with the PS3 and Xbox360, where microsoft was able to claim a lot of customers and people were abandoning the ps3.

If dell will make the next line up crappy, people will just look somewhere else.

 

Sager for me. Nice big desktop replacement, 3 HDDs, powerhouse CPU, ect.

 

I agree, as much of an AW fanboy I may seem at times, it's exactly because of the reason you stated. The M17x overall has a very nice build quality (still a lot of room for improvement) and the design + components is a step above the rest of the competition. But I don't like the direction Dell is taking with AW. Neglecting bios fixes, hardware upgrades, ignoring customer feedback, that just doesn't sit well with me.

They're ceding market share to their competitors every year and with the QC issues and the questionable build quality of the M11x, they may end up driving the AW brand to the ground. When I was at AW HQ in Miami, the place looked like an empty shell of it's former self. I saw minimal staff and I was told half their team had already shifted over to Texas while all the manufacturing and design was now being done by Flextronics in Taiwan. Where does that leave the original AW? I even told them that I was afraid of Dell ruining the brand and I still have that fear.

The X7200 looks good on paper but I guess we'll just have to see how it turns out. Personally I'm not interested in a 12 lb plastic monster from Sager.

 

I don't want plastic either, but if it has to be, it's the Sager NP8120 for me. Dual GPUs, 3 HDDs, 920 CPU, 18.4" screen. Only downside is A) plastic B) 16x9.

Can run 2 intel SSDs in RAID, with a 750GB Storage HDD. I already have the RAM, SSDs, HDD, and CPU...might be talking myself out of an alienware right now... Actually thinking about it...

 

The NP8120 / X8100 doesn't have dual GPUs. Would be crazy if it did though.

EDIT:

Nm, it does. My bad! I was thinking of the Clevo with desktop CPU.

 

You mean 3DFX, while the others were talking about Voodoo PC which was a enthusiast-level PC brand.
But your facts are incorrect as well. 3DFX went out of business because they made the bad move of buying STB and choosing to cut out the middle men to produce their cards themselves and not allowing the 3rd Party vendors that had held loyality to 3DFX and had been a big part of their success to build and sell their video cards. In theory this could have worked, but since their fancy new STB factories had production problem after production problem and most of their former partners had jumped ship to exclusive Nvidia deals, it all went down the drain.
The Voodoo 5 series was a fine card (it still has the best FSAA quality a consumer level video card ever featured), it just hit the market far too late due to said production problems, in very limited quantities and also wasn't on top of technology anymore when it became available.

But back on the topic:

I agree with the original poster. Dell should start to listen to their enthusiast customers and release products they want, not what Dell thinks is good.

 

Hm, just for comparisons sake, here's the link to Computer Reliability Performance.

As you can see Dell aren't doing too well, not the worst mind you, but could be better!

I got my first dell in 2006, the Latitude D610. Build quality wasn't anything exception and it did the job. Wasn't a high end model so I wasn't concerned.

Then I got about and buy the Alienware M15x, thinking Alienware will be amazing, and for the most part it is. It looks good, had a great screen. Then you get to the smaller details.. and I start to run out of excuses. The touchpad is rubbish and I feel like ripping it off. The touch buttons don't always work. The Command Center can get quite buggy. Performance can be scratchy at times (there was that bricking BIOS, and throtling problem).. and this is the computer you're supposed to brag about to your friends?

I like Dell. That is why I'm sticking with them. But the number of complaints about their products, service, and QC is frankly shocking to hear. I personally have had smooth sailing with Dell Customer Support, but reading some of the stories makes me wonder how long before it affects me?

I like the build quality of the current Alienware's (m11x excluded). If their quality goes down.. and the problems continue.. what is to keep us with Dell? People will disband to Sager, Clevo, Gateway, Asus etc.

I like how HP are actually listening. My sister has a HP DV6 and its decent, but the refresh of their models makes me want to buy one for side use.

Basic things for Dell to improve:
-Quality Control
- Shipping Times - literally every company out there beats Dell on this (Link)
-Customer Service (I can't stress how important this is.. as CS goes down, so do the number of customers)
-Price for Quality (We all know Alienware's are expensive, but if the build quality goes down.. I fear the price may not, this obviously needs to not be the case either way)
Customer Needs/Wants - Why sell a buggy computer without fixes? Why never listen to your customers wants? Why have poor customer service? Why Why Why.

These concerns need to be addressed. And FAST. Dell aren't the only sharks on the pool now.