Using Alienware to produce music

After doing research online and reading up on why the pros use Apple only to make music these days, I wonder why no one uses Alienware. Specifically Alienware. Not some generic HP/Dell computer.

I think the most reasonable response I got was either:

"Programmers make audio tools for Apple because they make more money."

or:

"Windows hardware always has issues with the sound card inputting static or other noises into the song while recording"

Seriously? You can't just upgrade the soundcard with a PCIe or physical in laptop soundcard replacement?

I am kinda frustrated about this because my favorite genre of music has a bland white/silver laptop that sits on their decks for friggin music producing or live music.

Mods, please let me know if I need to move this thread somewhere else because I could not find an "Alienware OffTopic" subforum and I don't want to put it in NBR's "All Notebooks OffTopic" ocean of a subforum.

 

I think your thread is OK here. There's not another one like it specific to Alienware that I am aware of. If Apple trolls show up and start posting comments in our forum that are anti-Alienware or anti-PC, this thread will be closed and those posts will be deleted.

At the moment, the M18x with GTX 580M SLI is unsuitable for this purpose because of the significant DPC latency issue. NVIDIA needs to step up to the plate and take care of that. It's not ethical for them to sell killer hardware and then shirk their responsibility to provide quality drivers. Once that's fixed, I see no reason it wouldn't excel with the right software.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...nvidia-gtx-580m-sli-dpc-latency-problems.html

The reality of the situation is that really good video and audio editing software exists for Macintosh systems because the developers (understandably) cater to the crowd that rakes in the most cash for them. They are in business to make money, so that's completely understandable. I would do the same thing, even if I did not like the platform the product is designed the be used with.

I think this comment is inaccurate, although it's a matter of semantics. I think it is more a matter of crappy drivers and lack of regard for the end user rather than the hardware itself. Hardware that cannot perform properly due to sloppy driver production ends up being unsuitable hardware in practical application. I am as far from being an Apple fan as anyone could ever be, but PC lovers like myself often fall victim to technology companies that are mediocre at what they do.

 

IMO the price you pay for a fully loaded Alienware, you can get a business class machine like the Precision M6600 or M4600 or Elitebook which would be better suited IMO for music production. Also Alienware fans are quite loud, that would be a bummer for music production (my M17xR2 fans sound like jet engines).

 

Alienware has the horsepower, it has the lights (not trying to stereotype here), it would look much more at home in a live venue, two or more hard drives, etc. It doesn't have to be fully loaded and I doubt you're going to mind the fans if you can't hear them live anyway.

In the studio, I wouldn't use a laptop necessarily. IMO You should use a desktop if you are in a studio. That, doesn't have to be Alienware, it can be whatever desktop you want. I'm just getting tired of the bland silver and white at every show. It's supposed to be entertaining you know?

Just figured I would ask people here and see what their input was on the subject.

 

Ha funny you mention that cause my friend DJ's with a fully loaded M17xR2...well good luck with your purchase.

 

In my personal expirance serato waveforms lag on windows but not on mac. Several threads on those forums abou it. Since it was developed on macs it just runs better on them. Of course there is traktor... This and iTunes keeps me from getting an m11x immed. iTunes on windows just does not feel the same.

 

Isn't there any way to quiet the fan of alienware?

 

Yes, you can manually control the fans using HWiNFO64 or SpeedFan, or change the thermal settings with an unlocked system BIOS.

The fans are MUCH louder on my M17xR2 than they are on my M18x. The R2 fans are only obnoxiously loud during POST, then they simmer down and you don't hear them again until you create a load that heats things up. Audio editing and playback probably would not create the kind of load that gaming does and it's the GPU fans on my R2 that blast the loudest, not the CPU fan.

 

Good point. The laptop would be quiet most of the time because the GPU's aren't being pushed. Only if you're surfing the web watching a flash animation/video would you start stressing the GPU enough to trigger the fans.

 

^^Exactly

The M17x R2's fans are waaay louder than the M18x's. If I were to get an Alienware for audio reproduction/editing, I would suggest configuring with 6990M CF. The M18x with 6990M CF configuration doesn't have a latency problem and would be overkill for anything audio, and would smoke any MBP, Elitebook or Precision. Plus theres also that cool/gaming factor associated with owing an Alienware.

 

Not much to add to this other then I am using the M11x r2 with Ableton live suite, a usb mixer and a usb hub to power midi devices. Works pretty well, although there is an occasional skip when working live under a lot of stress to the processor, but all in all it serves my needs.

 

On a m18x with Nvidias GPU just run in integrated mode while working with music you don't really need them on for this.. i use Ableton & Absynth and have no problems

 

I was also wondering if you can run dual boot or just a VM of OSX for music producing, then switch back to windows for everyday use. IJS (Im Just Saying)

 

First of all, the definition of "pro" is a big ol' can of worms. There are people who have a copy of Reason 5 and a couple of plugins and think they're "pro". Then there are people who think that just making money makes you "pro". Music is such a massive industry spanning so many genres that makes it impossible to really come together on one definition for what a "pro" is.

I would consider myself a "pro". I have been playing music since 1988 and have been recording since 1990. My first paying gig was the fall of '90 and my first paid recording gig was in the summer of '94. I have spent most of my time recording musicians who play instruments. This is a very important distinction because there are different skills applied to someone to records live instruments and the interaction between musicians as opposed to the skills applied to programming various sequencers or beats. I've done my fair share of sequencing, looping and sampling as well, but my background was definitely recording real instruments played by real musicians. I've also used laptops and software based synthesis triggered via USB controller for live shows before. These days my DAW of choice is Cubase, although I am also fluent with Pro Tools, Ableton Live, Acid/Vegas, and good old analog tape recording. And these days, my computer of choice is an Alienware m14x.

I can say with experience and personal knowledge that pros don't "only" use Apple these days, although it still tends to be the platform of choice for many pro studios. Apple has always done a good job at being on the forefront of audio and video editing, but PCs have always been really close in capability and better in price point. But due to the sheer number of possible hardware combinations of PCs there's more chances for incompatibility or inconsistency. Only one company makes Apple computers whereas there are hundreds if not thousands of companies making PCs.

Plus not all audio engineers are necessarily as fluent with computers as they are with their particular craft. I was a computer person first, and it just seemed to go hand in hand with what I was doing musically. But if I were a musician first and not as fluent or had as wide of an experience base with computers, I might have had a more difficult time with integrating music and computing. Because I'm a computer person first, the platform I'm using doesn't really matter to me, but someone else might only know one platform, or only know what works for them.

Apple's level of control over their product doesn't necessarily make for a better product, but definitely makes for a more consistent product. Software developers definitely enjoy less compatibility problems when they write programs for Apple, but the majority of software developers write for both platforms. You also have to understand that it depends on what DAW (digital audio workstation) software you are using, what plugins you are using and what format those plugins are in. DAWs like ProTools and Cubase are cross-platform and aren't really different at all between their Apple and PC versions. Logic, which was made by eMagic and bought by Apple is an Apple-only product. If you like using Logic, by default you are going to be an Apple user. If you're a ProTools kinda guy, it really doesn't matter which platform you choose these days. But once you go out on a limb and spend a few thousand dollars on a DAW and plugins, you tend to stay with that particular platform for a while.

Regarding the "sound card" issue you mentioned, I really don't know who you've been talking to, but it's definitely not anyone with any real world experience. Probably just internet know-it-alls (which I'm sure is exactly how I'll come off as well). But for professional audio recording a consumer level sound card just doesn't get the job done. When you step up to multitrack audio recording at higher resolutions (88.2k, 96k, 192k) you need serious hardware and bandwidth to handle the amount of data without errors and with as little latency as possible. It has absolutely nothing to do with Windows sound cards having static or noise. When you're dealing with multitrack audio and professional recording you're no longer dealing with "sound cards", you're now squarely in the realm of "audio interfaces".

Most pro quality audio interfaces are Firewire. The reason for this is because the sustainable bandwidth is higher and more consistent. Firewire 400 is capable of 400mb/sec and Firewire 800 is capable of 800mb/sec. While USB 2.0 is capable of 480 mb/sec, in reality USB operates more like a burst transmission where as Firewire is a more stable, steady stream. There are some manufacturers (such as RME) who have gotten around the limitations of USB 2.0 and have been able to make USB interfaces that can compete with Firewire interfaces on the high end of things. For most people however, this is all moot. Most people don't to track 48 tracks of 96k audio with zero latency monitoring. For most people 2 to 4 channels at 44.1k or 48k are good enough, and USB 2.0 is more than capable to handle it. At this point, there are no USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt interfaces, and Firewire has always had chipset issues and seems to be dying out, so the future isn't exactly certain.

So with all of that said, no you cannot just upgrade your sound card. You need a machine capable of communicating with an audio interface with great speed, low latency and enough resources to run your DAW and plugins happily.

Can all of this be done on an Alienware? Absolutely. My Alienware m14x is an excellent Cubase platform. The only problem is that I cannot use Firewire interfaces, which of course is exactly the type of interface I have for my desktop. So I need to find a USB interface that will do everything my Firewire interface will do as well as the Firewire interface does it, which technically doesn't exist at this time. But these days, if I'm going to be recording full band sessions, I've got more tools at my disposal than just my laptop, and can always dump the recorded files onto my laptop for mixing and mastering later.

So in conclusion (this ended up being a lot longer than I intended, but screw it... it's dead as hell tonight!), it really depends on what you're doing. If you're an electronic music guy working with sequencers, loops and samplers, you really don't need much. If you're recording a seven piece progressive rock band or a 48 piece orchestra, you're going to need a lot more. Your specific needs are what's going to determine what will and won't work for you. Why aren't Alienware computers more in the forefront of music production? Because that's not the focus of their marketing. Gaming is. Can they function well as audio production machines? Absolutely. But remember, your mileage may vary.

 

Also disabling SLI will get rid of the latency on a M18x w/580M SLI. Which is MORE than enough for most audio/video tasks.

 

I use windows based laptops to produce music just fine and so does the majority of my producer friends (we remix video game music).

Tools such as FL Studio and Reason are very comparable to Abelton Live and in my opinion, more simplistic. I'd recommend 6GB ram as VST plugins are a ram hog)

An SSD is also recommended as 5400rpm mechanical drives as well as 7200rpm to a certain extent can take up to 10 seconds to load .wav files/switching virtual instruments, which gets extremely annoying. A 120GB should be fine if you're just starting, which you can pick up for 139$~ new (avoid OCZ).

This is also a good tool:
Avid - M-Audio Axiom 25-Key USB MIDI Controller - Axiom 25

Makes it much easier to compose music using virtual instruments rather than using a mouse - saves alot of time.

Let me know if you want links for instrument packs/VST's, etc. through PM. I can link you the best bang for buck packs.

 

Thank you everyone for giving your input on this topic. I honestly thought it would just get buried under all of the other topics here on NBR.

Obviously I refer to the electronic music genre. I feel it's fitting that an Alienware laptop with the colored keyboard and other lights would just add to the effect of a live show/concert and I just don't see producers/artists taking advantage of that.

From what everyone has said on here, I can apparently use the firewire port on my M17x R2 to interface with other audio hardware and make music other than Electronic music, however with the current hardware in my laptop, it would be more than sufficient to produce music.

As I mentioned, earlier, I just don't see why producers don't take advantage of the opportunity. Especially electronic music producers. You could even sync AlienFX to the instrument or beat that is coming from a midi device either attached externally or in the laptop itself.

I really liked that old commercial with Dj Stryke creating music on an older Alienware system and wondered why more artists don't do this today during live shows.

Again, glad I am getting input regarding this topic. If you have more to add, feel free. Thx again.

 

I wouldn't say it was obvious, but it was a safe assumption that you were talking about electronic music.

One major problem is that the colored keyboard and other lights would be facing the artist, not the audience. So it's really only there to entertain yourself.

It really depends on your creative needs are. If you use hardware synths or want to trigger software synths with a keyboard or controller, you'll need some sort of USB or MIDI interface to do that with. If you're not doing just instrumental music and want to incorporate vocal tracks you'll need some sort of audio interface, a decent preamp, a capable microphone, and some room treatment. If you're just doing instrumental electronic music for yourself, by all means the Alienware's basic hardware will do fine for you. More RAM is always a nice thing though, especially when you start working with larger projects and lots of plugins. You can absolutely live with only 4-8gb, but more is always better.

Most people who consider themselves "producers" are people who tend to have a role similar to a director in film. They generally aren't performance artists. Of course, this depends on your definition of what a producer is and does. In the audio production world the role of producer generally differs from the role of arranger, composer, engineer, mix engineer and mastering engineer. In the hip-hop and electronica worlds of course, these lines get blurred a bit.

Another issue is that the live music world has changed quite a bit for the worse. Of course, it's much different for electronic musicians than it is for bands, but there are some parallels. There are less live venues available and the ones that are around pay less than they used to. Performing and especially touring artists have to cut their overhead to keep things profitable. If you're an Apple guy you really don't have much of a choice when it comes to cheaper laptops, but if you're a PC guy you have a multitude of choices, especially since you don't need a state of the art laptop to run performance software... again, it's not like you're dealing with 48 tracks of 96k+ audio.

Then you have the additional worry of backup or replacement hardware. If your primary instrument involves a laptop you absolutely have to have some sort of backup in case of equipment failure. If you can afford to carry multiple Alienware machines with you on tour, you can also afford to carry multiple Apple machines on tour, but if you're touring with any sort of budget it might be more prudent to tour with a pair of $300-500 laptops that'll get the job done.

I've toured with a couple groups that have implemented laptops into their live rigs. One was a two piece band that had two backing musicians with them for that tour. They used a whole slew of hardware, and one MacBook running Ableton Live running the common click that they all synced to. They were all Apple guys though, and three out of the four of them had MacBooks with them and everything was backed up onto external drives so that if the main MacBook went down, they could use one of the other guys' laptops on the fly.

Basically, the only advantage to using an Alienware over any other laptop for a live performance is AlienFX... which the audience can't see anyway. My m14x cost me $1200. I could buy four $300 laptops for that and if I were touring as an electronic musician, that's exactly what I would do. If flashy lights to impress the audience is important, bring a lighting rig with ya!

 

The lighting is just an added effect and really works well when promoting with behind the deck video footage, otherwise that Alienhead changing colors will definitely stand out I am sure

If what you say about the $300 laptop is true, how come $2,000 Apple Macbook Pro's are purchased by the bigger, more popular artists instead?

 

Mainly because they don't make $300 Macbooks.

Again, I think that really has to do with two things. The first being that most musicians aren't computer people first, so they're not going to be knowledgeable or have a bias towards one or the other. The second is that the perception is still that Apple is a better product for audio and video production, so your average musician is going to go with what they believe is the popular and/or necessary choice, learn how to use it, and end up using it for life.

What I've found with musicians (hell, and people for that matter) is that they tend to stay within their comfort zones. You don't see a lot of people who grow up on PCs go and buy an Apple for producing music or video, they tend to find a way to do what they want on what they're familiar and comfortable with. They're really both just tools that can do the same job, it just comes down to what works best with your workflow.

Back when I used to sell recording equipment I absolutely hated dealing with Apple computers. This was pre-OSX though, they were running MacOS 9.2. They crashed and glitched out constantly. It was really hard to try and sell someone on a $40,000 ProTools TDM rig when all of your host machines constantly lose connection with interfaces and controllers and randomly crash for no apparent reason! Of course, if it was a PC host I probably would have been able to solve the problem, only because I had far more knowledge of working on PCs. I was able to get around and do what I needed to do with Macs but nowhere near to the extent I could on a PC. And that's why when it came to building my own studio machine, I built it on a PC platform. I can fix just about anything that would happen to my PC, but it would be a completely new learning curve to be able to do the same things with an Apple. And who has the time and patience for all that?

 

as a user for both workstation and gaming laptops, I must say that both kinds are quite capable of music production.

I am not a professional in that area but I have used both for some music content creation. And of course they all work fine.

I think there are lot of macs because of the kind of people who create and work in the field. Picture a guy that looks like Jason Mraz who works at a studio. I doubt he will use a latitude over a macbook. now picture a guy in armani suit working at goldman sachs. I dont think he will be using a shiny macbook pro as a first choice for meetings. if you know what i mean...

 

I am confused about the second part. I think a exec would use a macbook pro very much so as their first choice for a meeting. Why wouldn't they? It does documents fine, I think the mail is a way better email client than outlook, and it runs pretty much any software a windows based machine would run.

 

I think what he's trying to say, at least from what I got out of it, is that people tend to choose their tools based upon their belief of what other people who do similar things choose. Or they're just emulating the look they're going to, to give off a certain impression.

Basically, people tend to follow the crowd, and that's exactly true. People are basically parrots; we learn by emulation. We modify things slightly based upon our environment and experiences, but overall we are all highly influenced by the things we observe.

For example, if you have aspirations to work in video production (regardless of whether or not you go to a film school or other specialized education for it), you are either going to learn how to use the tools that other people in video production use or you are going to use the tools you already know. Most people in video production use Apple computers, so the chances are greater that you too will use Apple computers.

The same goes for audio production which takes many cues from video production, especially in the digital age of recording.

One of my favorite quotes comes from the movie Sneakers, with Robert Redford and Ben Kingsley talking:

Cosmo: Posit: people think a bank might be financially shaky.
Bishop: Consequence: people start to withdraw their money.
Cosmo: Result: pretty soon it is financially shaky.
Bishop: Conclusion: you can make banks fail.

So if people think that audio production requires a certain computer, then they will buy that certain computer. The majority then use that certain computer. Then more people will think that it requires that certain computer.

For some people, the look of using a specific tool is important, and for other people the knowledge that their heroes or influences used a specific tool is important. The reality is that you can do whatever you want with whatever tool you want. There are still Atari and Amiga users out there, the Fairlight Synclavier is still a viable product, and good old analog tape is still a treasured medium. Jason Mraz could use any laptop and still achieve the same results. Just like the Goldman-Sachs dude in an Armani suit could also use any laptop and still achieve the same results.

Why do most people in audio production use Macs? Because they are under the impression that Macs are the proper tool. That's not to say an Alienware isn't, but the impression people get of Alienware machines is that they are overpriced gaming machines. And while that may be true, it doesn't mean they're not perfectly viable tools for audio production. Mine's awesome at it!

 

Is speedfan Win 7 compatible because I dont see a fan option on my copy? I will try the other program.

 

It seems HP wants in on the electronic music genre. Tiesto's series "In The Booth" is heavily sponsored by HP even of Tiesto only uses decks for music and no laptop when playing live. Pretty interesting.

 

Rubber crow makes many great points, I work in video editing but in our audio department all our " pros " ( music and broadcast video) use business class laptops without Nvidia GPU's ( intel IGP or AMD only ) but with expresscard slots, where they put in TI based expresscard firewire 800 cards for their multi thousand dollar interfaces. I would say your first thing to look at is what all you will be interfacing with THEN decide on if an AW meets your needs as no current aliens have TI firewire or expresscard slots.

my $0.02

our audio guys/gals gave up on Macs 4 years ago due to multiple reasons including high latency and speed spikes in their firewire interfaces, macs are best is just an out of date stereotype

 

Are you sure about that? My M17xR2 has an express card slot. I have even found ti 800 firewire express cards for sale online that should work with my M17xR2. I am pretty sure my laptop would be compatible with the card without issue.

 

That's including the full 800mbps speed.

 

sorry I forgot the r2 has one, the r3 does not. we order in fw-800 cards for our units including those that have onboard firewire.

 

Posts like this make me appreciate my R2 more and more. lol

 

I prefer someone to use a Mac over a PC for audio or video work just due to how much faster it is. This isn't to say an M18x would dust one if it were fully specced, just that the Mac is more efficient than the PC with the same specs.

Not an Apple fanboy, but it is better for that sort of thing. However, I can't seem to find a reason to stop you from buying the best laptop you can get on the market. I is jelly...

 

The Mac isn't faster at all, but if the engineer on the session is more comfortable with the workflow of a Mac, the tracking session will be faster.

I'm ten times faster on a PC than I am on a Mac. Does that mean my PC is faster? Of course not.

When you go into a full blown recording session in a large tracking studio where time is money, you'll find that nobody cares about the speed of the device you're using. They care about the speed and accuracy of the person using the device.

In fact, if given the right tracking engineer and a good enough budget, you'll find that top engineers prefer using analog tape or RADAR over a PC or a Mac. Then, depending on who is doing the mix, they will import the tracks into a DAW (usually ProTools, nine times out of ten, which runs equally well on PCs and Macs) and the hard drive is sent to the mix engineer via FedEx.

One the most well known and sought after mix engineers, Chris Lord-Alge, doesn't use a Mac or a PC, he uses Sony 3348 digital machines and Studer A series 24 track 2" analog tape. He has an assistant compile the tracks from the ProTools session down to 48 tracks so he can run them in the 3348 and mix them through a large format SSL console.

So once again, they're just tools. It doesn't matter which one you use, it all comes down to having a comfortable workflow. The primary components are your interface, your DAW, and the platform you run it on. If you aren't comfortable and knowledgeable with any link in that chain, you simply won't be a very efficient engineer.

Mac vs. PC, analog versus digital versus hybrid, mixing In The Box versus summing mixers or large format consoles, none of it matters if you aren't capable with your tools. Give me a previous generation PC and a state of the art Mac and I will always be faster on the PC. Always. Put my friend Rob, who is an engineer and A&R person with Atlantic, on a previous generation Mac and a state of the art PC and he will always be faster on the Mac. Always. Put him on Cubase/Nuendo and me on ProTools and regardless of whether they're running on a Mac or PC and watch us squirm. Have us switch and watch us zip through sessions all day long.

Just like if you put a guitar in his hands and a keyboard in front of me and we'll take days getting the perfect takes. But give me the guitar and him the keyboard and we'd have 15 tracks done in an 8 hour session, with time for lunch, Starbucks, and two or three smoke breaks.

They're just tools.

 

Can some one on do me a favor and try Itch on the m11x (or other alienware if needed) I am looking to see if the waveforms run as good as mac. Right now I can't run it decently on my thinkpad which pretty much is the exact same specs as macbook pro.

 

Hi, have some serious thoughts to get m18x with ati crossfire for music/video production and also some mild gaming (not a fan of newer pc games, altough Diablo 3 could be something). Anyways, there is one fat point of concern, Raid 0.
It's common knowledge that audio files should be stored in a separate drive. Also hate the fact that if one of the hard disks fails all data is lost forever, don't have time to back up all the time.
So here comes the question, how easy is it to disable Raid 0, so that there would be two separate hard disks instead? Is there a step by step guide somewhere?

 

You just need to go into BIOS, change SATA operation from RAID to AHCI and reinstall Windows either clean install or via Respawn discs.

 

If you change from RAID to AHCI there is a possibility that the Respawn restore operation can fail, because the Windows installation was configured for the BIOS to be set on RAID rather than AHCI. You can give it a try though, and see if it works. I have tried doing a Respawn from my optical media backup with the BIOS set on AHCI and it fails on every attempt. It succeeds when I put the BIOS back on RAID.

On Alienware M17x and M18x, and perhaps other Alienware laptops, systems the BIOS comes from the factory set on RAID (which has advantages) even with a single drive installed. With the BIOS set to RAID and Intel Rapid Store Technology installed, drive operation is generally enhanced and I do not know of any disadvantages to having the BIOS set to RAID, even when an array is not configured. It is recommended by Intel to leave the BIOS set to RAID.

Even my wife's Inspiron M5030 (which has no second drive bay) has the BIOS set to RAID as the factory default.

The other thing is, you can order a brand new Alienware without the drives being set up in RAID. All you need to do is select the right configuration. You actually have to pay extra for the drives to be set up in RAID0.

 

Thanks for the info! Unfortunately im unable to order directly from alienware, only option is buying from our local dealer in Estonia. Seems like breaking the Raid is too much of a hassle, so im afraid i am forced to get some other laptop. This beautiful beast of a machine is probably a bit overkill for non gaming anyway. Does Ati crossfire has any advantages when using video editing software like Sony Vegas or Adobe Premiere?
Would get m17x r3 in a heartbeat if it had firewire or express card slot, maybe there will be one in r4.