What took so long on the m17x?

Alright, so it's here, it's being shipped, it's AW's biggest and baddest in the notebook area...and it's freakin identical specwise to a dell 1730! Oh wait, the 1730 has a physix card as standard equipment and costs less while having a flashier exterior to an alienware. But all that aside, seriously they have treaded no new ground with this design nor is it that crazy of a design to begin with mostly because we already have 2 8800gtx sli notebooks that have been out since before the launch of the 8800gtx. What took so long in the development of this machine? Did it really take them that long to figure out how to take the lights from the outside of the 1730 and put them in?

Now maybe AW's version of the 1730 is somehow better than the sum of its parts and will out benchmark the 1730 with identical specs. In that case I'll chalk it up to alien technology and the order of the world is kept. If it is not, then I'd personally tell people either go for the m15x or go to dell for the same or better notebook in the 17" class.

 

I think in arguments sake, to include a physix card does little now with the power of gpu's today. Dont get me wrong it helps and should be in there if other companies include it as standard plus for less cost in total is just unacceptable. Plus the 1730 has a logitec g3 style hud on the keyboard if im not mistaken? Id take the looks of an Alienware over the dell anyday tbh. Dell's 1730 looks like mad max himself designed it in his dreams and the Alienware is now becoming less and less daring with its matt bulk of a chasis. It even takes away features like light side piping.

 

The PhysX card does not help. It only supports a handful of games, only increases some particle effects, and actually hurt framerates in games such as GRAW.

 

I wasn't aware it was supported in any. If writing a game why code for a system that the vast majority of the market don't have?
Anyway I thought Nvidia bought Agia out a while back..

 

They did, and if I remember correctly the 8800GTX(desktop only i think) cards and up have the support of what the physix card is giving you so all those 9XXX(or the high end ones at least) cards should be able to do the same thing that the physix card was doing....idk can't remember where I read about this at...maybe someone can find the source.

 

Yes it did, and nVidia is soon to release drivers to support AGEIA PhysX technology.... so a $250 AGEIA PhysX card becomes a software update for those with CUDA supporting 8-series and up cards

 

Dedicated PPUs are already a dead concept now that NVIDIA bought Aegia.

As for m17x vs M1730 vs Clevo, while it may actually end up in third place in that horse race technologically, it still has a distinctive look. That's much of the reason why one buys from one Clevo rebrander and not another; much of the difference between them is the way they aesthetically treat the machines.

 

Okay so count out the physix card....

I priced out sli 8800gtx equipped on both systems and for identical specs processor and HD wise the 1730 was cheaper by around 10% at the minimum. I believe with dual 250 gig HDs, 4 gigs of ram, Vista Ultimate, the T9500, and a few other things the 1730 came out to be 4300 and the alienware was almost $5000. I threw the physix card thing in there because it was just something dell threw in to sweeten the deal with all 1730s now I think. But basically it boils down to nothing is new, nothing is different, it just has a different case and their pricing is very uncompetitive so why did it take them this long to come out with it? The ideal launch time would've been right after introduction of the 8800gtx and they probably could've done it too. Dell would just have to tell 1730 buyers to hold off for a month or so and then make the 8800 an option in the 1730 to boost m17x sales.

Oh and I don't think comparing it to the clevo is fair because of different technology (desktop vs mobile processor). I'm comparing it to the 1730 due to identical options but there's just an AW premium on all their prices.

 

Alienware also has the brand name and image, that they make very high end, luxury laptops. Something that Dell and Clevo don't have.

 

You're calling the m17x the definition of "luxury" ?

 

No. I'm saying that it has the image of being luxury.

 

Sure but in the end it's performance which counts (or, at least, what I was counting in my example) so I was therefore including all relevant 17" DTRs

 

To be honest I didn't expect them to release this early - Wondering whether these (the first few) merely use the m15x's motherboard and fittings and so on
- Why not, same chipset, ram, processors etc. only diff is the hardrives, extra graphics card and chassis. Why bother redesigning just to make two inches bigger hence I think it shares same components and they only released it to try and catch some more of the market before montevina comes out, then when it does they release the 17x with new bits and bobs, hence milk the market for as much as possible -

- Which if they do would be a pretty good idea (well best of bad situation - I think it should have been released last november)
They'd get to use up more of the 965 stock and make more money..

 

The mobo has to be different though; the fan layout guarantees that. Plus if you see their promo pictures things like the hard drives and GPUs are in totally different locations from the m15x.

 

Yeah I was looking at the videos earlier (ones where they show all the insides lit up) granted those pics are definitely different, but as nobody has actually taken one apart and posted pics (least I havn't seen anyway) how do w know?
I just think it would be mad from a cost point of view to put this system out now if they don't have any intention of upgrading it in the future.
Surely it'l lose out to the newer systems coming out next month/month after.

 

well,to me

1.XPS 1730 == Sager 9262
2.Sager 5793
3.AW m17x

 

I know it's a little odd to be taking technical details from promotional images, but the promotional images for the m15x are pretty well dead-on correct for the actual location of the parts

 

I don't disagree with you on #1, but how does the 5793 do better than the m17x? The 5793 is not running off desktop CPUs and from what I can tell you can't go SLI 8800s in it either, unlike the m17x (unless you're ranking off something other than performance)

 

Whether AW releases the m17x earlier, now or later, a company such as theirs NEEDED to release a laptop with the biggest and baddest technology around, no matter how many other competitors have it too.

 

Agreed, I made that point as well in another post. Better late than never.

 

i was ranking by price-/per/-weight-/per/-dimensions-/per/-performance...in that order!

 

heh alright

 

*sigh* I guess I just don't get why I should spend such a high premium so my computer says alienware on it. I agree they need the 17" with power but when make it identical to the 1730 in every way and still charge such a premium? They could've put on some super crazy speakers and exotic paitn jobs and maybe add some cool, new, goofyish but still amazing design features such as a pull-out multimedia remote control, maybe a bluetooth mouse that mathces with a charging connector on it, maybe like built in 7.1 output courtesy of creative labs. Then it would be worth a premium without a doubt. But no, they decide to be lazy.

 

They don't decide to be lazy, every Alienware computer has a premium, every Alienware laptop is going to be more expensive than its Dell or Clevo counterpart. I found that I recent years Alienware has gotten cheaper actually.

 

Alienware prices have gotten a lot cheaper in the last generation of computers. Just compare their prices to FNW and Voodoo and you'll see that Alienwares are a bargain in the boutique market.

Alienware has a very loyal fanbase, and just by looking at the forums, you can see that they've set the company up very intelligently to the point that people get offended when you point out that an alternative computer may have the same performance and yet be cheaper.

 

Granted, on this forum theres a loyal fan base.

Go to other forums and mention Alienware, the responses won't be quite as nice..

 

There's the Alienware cult, then there's the middle (rare) rational crowd, then there's the extremist crowd.
The Alienware cult.... well..... just don't think beyond Alienware!
The rational crowd look for what's the best buy with performance per buck in mind, for whom the Sagers and Clevos are around
The extremist crowd are the ones that would just criticize other companies.... like Alienware for example... these people would criticize alienware, sure they overprice.... but take m15x for example, unique as of today(although not for long)..... so they're not THAT bad.... just expensive!

And honestly, I get the vibe from AW as though they're the kind of company that would make majority sales to rich kids in US.... while Sager would make sales to true performance enthusiasts.. and those with a tad bit of knowledge of the industry and the technology

 

true. look at voodoo pricing, it's absolutely off the scale across the board.

 

And that's why part of the AW cult closes up -- because everyone else thinks that buying an AW makes you dumb or snobby (as you just implied). Same thing with Voodoo buyers.

 

ah, but Voodoo just sells (painted) clevo barebones, whereas AW has their own chassis etc. therefore you can't compare the two companies.

 

Kinda funny to see all the AW haters starting to come out with the release of the M17. It's ok to be jealous guys

 

Jealous ? [Insert Mortal Kombat evil laugh here] Actually, I'm spending my efforts in SAVING people from making irrational purchases!

 

Check and Mate.

 

Yup, I'm so jealous that you have so much money that you can actually spend MORE money on a crappier DELL 1730.

And I honestly liked the m15x because it was what alienware actually touts itself as being: the best of the best...for a price. It is unique, it has a lot of great features, I actually think the look isn't half bad. The m15x is very configureable to your tastes and has a lot of power to boot. It is expensive but for those who want to do more than just game and have a unique looking laptop the m15x represents a fully 100% legitimate option even by a value perspective. The m9750 was, for its time, the beast to take down. Dual 7950gtx, the latest C2D processors from intel, suport for 4 gigs of ram and multiple hard drives. It was the next logical evolution and just took what the previous AWs had and built off it to remian at the top. It was very expensive and the value wasn't 100% there but still, it was a viable choice. The m17x is...redundant. Largely due to the 1730. Actually that's why I started this is because the 1730 is out. Nothing is new, nothing is different, it's just a different package with a higher price tag.

I laugh at people who buy AW just because it's an AW. I <3 my asus but I make recommendations outside of Asus because they are not the only brand in the world. My asus fit my needs/budget perfectly. It won't for all though and I know and respect that. Sometimes you just need a cheapo dell/hp base model to get you buy. If you have the dough I say spend the big $ on the sager. If you want something a little different those toshiba satellite X models are something interesting to go for. Aw owners think like this - "I spent all my money on this computer, I am awesome and you are not because you did not buy one".

Aw is not an engineering company, they buy and repaint other manufacturer's boards as well. I'm convinced the m17x is likely the dell 1730 just with lights on the inside instead of outside.

True story here - a kid in my college dorm gets his 40 grand college loan to pay for tuition, books and the like. WHat is his first purchase? A $3500 m9750 with a single 7950gtx, the 7600 processor, 4 gigs of ram, vista ultimate, and a bunch of other stuff. The guy uses it to play web browser games...He then proceeded to try and rag on me for using a non alienware. I actually use my gaming laptop for real games like...well nothing in a web browser window. He finally got a non browser game - Sims 2. It wouldn't run on his computer cause he was a total noob and had no idea about updates, driver installation, and basically everything about a computer

 

I don't think buying the m17x is irrational at all. I've wanted a 17" laptop with 8800 SLi since they were announced, but at the $4000+ level of laptops, looks become very important to me. The clevo/sager which is rebranded by companies like xQT and Aviator (I think that's what they're called) looks like a bloated thinkpad to me. The XPS is very nice price-performance-wise, but as has been pointed out, the PhysX card is of dubious merit, and as for the logitech mini-LCD on the keyboard, well, when I'm involved in a tense match of CoD4, I have my eyes glued to the screen and no time at all to glance at some mini-LCD on the keyboard. That's just me though. Also Dell laptops have this really weird sloped-cubist design (seen most clearly on the Inspiron) with that awful arrangement of VCR buttons on the front. It looks like an unwieldy T-34 tank turned into a laptop (just my opinion).

 

Maybe you should waste your efforts somewhere else instead of trolling around the AW section

 

The 1730 and m17x are pretty different looking machines, I doubt they are based on the same design.

The m17x also has a couple advantages over the 1730: Better processor, option for Raid 1, Smartbay, etc.

 

The m17x is a custom Quanta machine. It has no relation to other laptops on the market.

 

Maybe you should work for Alienware instead of spending time in a public forum.

 

Well I have teh M15x and I compare it to my friends M1730. Although the 1730 isn't for me, it still an impressive system. I know the built quality of the M15x to eh 1730 is about the same. But the M1730 surely feels like a more solid machine.

Although it's really just a matter of personnel choice. But if i had to wiegh them out, I think the TRUE 3 year ONSITE warranty from DELL would win that case. (AW is still send it in no matter what)

 

i actually agree. the m17x doesnt seem of offer anything different from the m1730 other that the smartbay. at least the m15x is completely different from any other 15.5 inch on the market. its still the strongest and it has amazing battery life. if the m15x didnt have these features then i probably would not have bought it.

 

Aren't Quanta dell's #1 supplier for boards as well? I guess since it has smartbay technology and a few other odditites it can be a custom model but still, the similarities are incredibly striking.

Smartbay is still not offered on the dell, I'll give you that. But both can be had with an x9000 and dell calls raid 1 "RAID Protection" and is offered.

 

What the hell are you saying? How can you make such a generalization? I am an Alienware user as I am an HP and Dell user. I have a tx1000 and a Vostro 1500 and I also built my desktop. I am not a fanboy but people that make comments like this just piss me off. If people want to buy an AW let them, why make such a big deal out of it? If they waste money how is it your problem? Yes I may have a lot of money to throw away to buy computers, but I don't get an e-peen when I think about it.

 

Exact-freaking-ly !! That "exclusive" feeling people get from owning an Alienware.... nothing wrong about it... even till today the m15x is unique (till the m860TU arrives).... but nothing great about the over-expensive m17x at all! Get real people!

 

Hi guys, I have just looked at the Uk priceing for the 1730, out of curiosity and currently the highest spec is as follows :- T9500 - 2.6Ghz & 2 x 200Gb@7200rpm, 8800Gtx oh, and the Physx card that's pretty much redundant due to Nvidia owning it now!
Compare that to the M17X, without Montevina and it's certainly lacking.

I will agree that when the 1730 was available with the same spec as the M17X, the Dell was fastest in tests due to the processor being 3.4Ghz and the machine taking off witht he fans running all of the time but, now it's a different story. The 1730 is nothing when compared to the M17X.

Now unless you guys are looking at the USA pricing and can fully spec it, the 1730 is lagging behind... to be honest it's no threat at all.

Oh and i'm also keeping my options open, i'm not saying other brands are bad/rubbish, i like the M17X, Clevo's seem too brick like yet has better performance even using a desktop processor, BUT, that's just my opinion. Something that i don't shout about on here.

Each of us is entitled to our own opinion, after all what's right for me, may not be right for anyone else...

Just my 2p.

OB

 

Specing it on the UK website only offers you a T9500 2.6Ghz and either a 200GB or dual hard drives in Raid 0. That is useless for me as I would never feel safe with a laptop that could take easily take all my data if just one of the hard drives crashed; thus, RAID 1 is a must.

 

I can see no reason why the m17x is better than the m1730 as people are saying.

Max options considered
- both offer dual 8800m gtx in sli.
- both offer x9000 but dell offers a 600mhz overclock.
- both offer various hard drive configs
but dell only offer dual 160gig 7200rpm satas in raid 0
wheras alienware offer dual 250gig 7200rpm satas in raid 0

As I can see it the choice is larger hardrive capacity versus a decently overclockable processor.

(I didn't include smartbay as its same as external - can't be used in raid)

To be honest I think the m1730 is more eyecatching, granted it looks ugly when opened up but so does any laptop, I think the back casing and sides is a lot more appealing and "original or extreme or something" the matt black of the 17x doesn't say 5000 dollar system

Maybe if they release the model originaly shown when the m15x was announced, but otherwise I just don't think it stands up, and to be honest I'm now considering one of hypersonics clevos.

 

In the UK the specs the m1730 has no x9000 processor (though I swear it was available before). The m17x also the option for Raid 1, something I can't see on the m1730.

I feel the m1730 looks a bit cheap compared to the Alienware, or Dell's own Latitude line. I do agree, however, that the m17x isn't nearly as appealing as I was expecting; I'm hoping to see the glossy black come out by the time I buy it.

 

You can overclock the x9000 on the m17x too. Intel ships that chip with an unlocked multiplier.

 

All intel extreme chips are shipped with an unlocked multiplier - hence the pricetag.
However to use this the computer manufacturer must incorporate changing the clock frequency in the bios, which is what people are speculating about. It's not listed as being capaple of overclocking in the customise page on their website, nor was any mention made in the videocast.

- Granted this is merely speculation and it may well be available when they release it.
In fact it would be kind of odd if they didn't, if you look at other manufacturers selling 17inch x9000 laptops, most I've seen allow overclocking.