*** Windows 10 + NVIDIA WHQL Drivers are Killing Alienware and Clevo LCD Panels ***

Does anyone know if I purchase Dell part number HGT3J (the LCD replacement) will that fix the issue? I assume it is a matter of the EEPROM / EDID getting messed up, but I am not sure if that part number includes that.

 

I checked the refresh rate and it's 120Hz Using Google chrome . Couldn't get more than 60Hz with IE11 and Edge
& monitor info if it helps.

 

ok, so you guys might hate me for making a worthless post here but I gotta say I am thoroughly impressed with everyone in this thread and the way you are all handling this. Sorry you guys are going through this. One of the perks of being lazy such as I am is that I didn't jump on Win 10. If I had and this happened to me, I would have slammed my Alien through the floor, cursed the world, taken a header out the window and ran screaming and naked down my street until I got to the water. Then held myself under.

I wish I could help you guys out some but it's amazing how much can be learned just by reading your posts. I wish you all luck and this thread is a perfect example of why I feel honored to be even a small part of a group like this. Good luck to you all.

 

Thanks, perhaps we can nail nVidia now:

First two are the display edids as found under their default location in the registry (always there). Both 10 and non-10 are bit-identical. The third edid, however, is not. There's four differences, yet the full data string (panel nr.) matches those in the display section (i.e., it's the same panel).

Okay ... wth ... no bloody idea what those values mean ... but google-fu and you have a Web Based EDID Reader (the internet be praised ):

Okay ... soooo ... according to nVidia (graphics driver) this 18.4" LED screen is GTF-capable (and non-digital, to boot):

Pardon? It's a CRT now ??!

Well ... this might ... just ... perhaps ... be standard practice (for some very odd reason -> maybe hook-up over internal VGA??!). Yet, the EDID Checksum is 'False', so at the very minimum this is not according to edid specifications.

@Daniel1983 :
Care to run this .reg and reboot without external display?
AW18, panel 'SDC4C48', graphic driver edid corrected

May have to set permissions in registry first in order to prevent 10's auto-driver overwriting them again. Start -> Run -> 'regedit' and set permissions to match:

Not to worry; you (owner/admin) still have full control, this only denies access to 'System'. Can safely delete key and run this to get the CRT-values back:
AW18, panel 'SDC4C48', graphic driver edid reset to CRT

Great; so far, so good. Care to check/export registry as well?

 

can I get thr TL: DR version please?

 

If correct; nvidia runs LCDs in CRT-style (and gets my bank account nr. ).

 

@t456 I cannot make the "Owner Tab" under Advanced Security to show up.

What am I doing wrong?? See IMG LINK

 

My systems are all 7; 8 and 10 may be different. Doesn't matter, as long as 'Creator/Owner/Administrator' remains. However, just to be safe; make some new 'dud' key somewhere, follow same procedure and try to delete it. If it fails; the dud key is harmless.

 

I was thinking to take the free upgrade to Windows 10, though I've seen a lot of contras.. It's just not safe to upgrade at this ponit, plus I've read some reviews where in real world gaming Windows 10 goes slower than Windows 7... This kind of issues kill Windows 10 for me..

 

I applied all of the registry values correctly. Ran the file. Restarted without HDMI, 8 beeps no post.

Appreciate the effort though; you've taken us much further than where we were prior to your posts-chasing our own tails LoL. Great detective work!

 

can someone compare the raw data between windows 10 drivers like 353.62 vs 353.30 etc. i want to see if the raw data changes between driver versions for win 10.

 

Bummer ... did the values stick, at least?

Of course, running off-sync is not wholesome for an lcd (panel spec. sheet has a dozen pages on that). It may very well be too late for yours (and Mr. Fox's), but there's plenty of blank->crash reports for 10+353.62. If this fixes that issue ... don't have account there, but maybe someone can post a link there. With a caveat; don't use the 'SDC4C48' .reg if it doesn't match your current panel . Easy enough to change it to whichever 'display xyz edid' -> copy -> 'driver xyz edid'.

Mind that this erroneous value just 'stuck out'. Your driver export is a bit ... much (you own waaaay too many displays ). Have hardly fleeced it; there could be more to find.

One other thing; there's a single "Origin" value right under the corrupt edid:



Could mean anything ... could mean nothing. Want to try setting this to '1', '0' or deleting it altogether? If yes, then better make proper backup first. Could make .reg again, but think you'll manage; highlight and hit 'File' -> 'Export'. Rename to backup.reg and copy to bootable usb stick with this in root's autoexec.bat file ('/s' = silent execute):

Code:

regedit /s backup.reg

Test the stick first with some dummy value in a 'test.reg'. Then boot from usb, shutdown and check if the dummy exists in registry.

Content for 'test.reg':

Code:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TestDummy]
"auto-write successful"=dword:00000001

Content for 'autoexec.bat' test run:

Code:

regedit /s test.reg

If that runs and edit causes mishap ( and also denies access to registry); reboot with the backup.reg recovery stick. Even better is a full image, of course (reinstall is last resort, don't like those).

 

we still thinking win 10 is a factor?

 

I believe so. My theory is Microsoft is injecting code into hardware to hashtag it for future key-less windows activation. Whether or not the malicious code disabling proper function of hardware is intentional is yet to be determined. But, what do I know.


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that sucks, really hoping to upgrade

 

Seriously ? They are trying to their own version of dells SLIC or something ? Thats horrible, really. When did we agree to this !

 

Yes. That is the correct part. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Dell-Alienware-M18x-R1-R2-18-4-1920x1080-FHD-LED-LCD-Screen-PN-CN-0-HGT3J/281669426394?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=32961&meid=4978757b1ed04e8b8a95f1969f3996f5&pid=100011&rk=8&rkt=10&sd=121717625508

You will use your old webcam, logo LED board, LVDS cable assembly, etc. The EEPROM is on the PCB attached to the back of the display and not sold as a separate component.

 

Anyways, I have not had this issue and I have done a full windows 10 installation about 30 times now, and on M17X-R4 M18X-R1 M18X-R2 AW 17 and the AW18. So, don't know why, but I never get the issue, but I do note, I always use an external monitor, but none of them had any issue when I do on occasion use the LCD Panel. I am wondering if maybe I had the issue, and then it went away or something. Like, how would I know if I was affected?!?!
I know I am not affected now.

I also hate the fact one of my buyers was affected, but if he calls us, we will help fix it. If an external monitor can work that means alot.

 

OH btw, I use only two specific drivers though too. If that helps.

 

I'm using the 353.62 drivers on Win8.1 for more than a week now on my M18X-R2 and so far no problems with my notebook screen panel. Definitively Windows 10 is involved in some way in this case but cant rule out the 353.62 nvidia drivers to blame either..

woodztack if you not using the newest Nvidia drivers in your Win 10 machines, then thats the reason you're ok till now, its almost certain that the combination of Win10 + 353.62 drivers are causing this defect in the panels.

 

The driver could certainly have something to do with it. It appears the earlier drivers are not corrupting the EEPROM. I am assuming you may be running those machines in pure UEFI mode as well, which allows booting using an external display or uses GOP for the LCD. Legacy BIOS (which is not bootable with Maxwell on Alienware systems except with Optimus) does not allow booting from an external display on the M18xR1/R2/18 and possible M17xR2/R4/17. It routes through VGA/LVDS and that is where the 8-beeps problem kicks in. Optimus mode boots using the Intel HD Graphics, so the NVIDIA GPU doesn't have a say in the process. It also appears that 120Hz eDP displays are not affected.

 

most of that information should be in your first thread.

 

Bottom line for anyone reading this thread and threads in other forums, if you own an Alienware M18xR1, M18xR2, Alienware 17 or Alienware 18 laptop with a 60Hz LVDS display:

• Expect throttling problems on machines with 780M SLI unless you use antiquated driver
• Expect unnecessary complications and impaired functionality attempting to use Maxwell GPU(s)
• Expect that LCD failures are possible if you install Windows 10 and all of the stars are not in perfect alignment

This is extremely unfortunate because these machines have been the best the industry had to offer until Maxwell and Windows 10 showed up. And, just clear up any confusion, Dell/Alienware did not create the problem. The machines themselves have not changed. They are still excellent products, but the changes made by Micro$haft and NVIDIA have adverse implications for those that own them.

Unless or until Micro$haft and NVIDIA get their acts together and start doing things right, you can and should expect problems if you own one of these amazing beast machines. Micro$haft and NVIDIA are catering to the lowest common denominators (less expensive, mass-production average consumer machines) that generate the most cashflow for them. They don't care if our machines work correctly.

If you want something awesome you have three options, at least temporarily. (1) wait and see if they eventually make things right. (2) build a desktop. (3) if you insist on owning a laptop, there are a hand full (limited selection) of new Clevo models left that are not pathetic turds with BGA CPUs and/or GPUs, but those options are even more limited if you want the unrivaled performance superiority of an SLI beast laptop.

Of even greater concern, none of those three options listed above will do anything to fix the spyware/adware/telemetry abortion that Windows 10 has turned into, along with forced updates and lock-downs that prevent end-users from being in total control of their private property. If Windows 10 can write to an LCD EEPROM and cause issues like what this thread has highlighted, just stop think about it for a moment... What can or will they do next without asking for permission or giving themselves a right to do in an EULA that basically gives them a right to do whatever they want to you and your laptop or desktop computer? This is not OK.

With the industry moving further toward the UEFI Class 3 model; with firmware and driver signature enforcement, inordinate and obsessive pre-occupation with the end-goal of limited power consumption, ludicrously thin and light form factors and the overall trend with the intent for all notebooks to essentially become disposable zombie devices like tablets and smartphones that are intolerant of upgrades or being operated outside of prescribed specs, I think we are only seeing the tip of the feces ice berg today. There is a gigantic colon loaf melting away under the surface that is just waiting to bob up for air and knock us all out our canoes. Things are probably going to get much smellier than we can imagine... but, hey... it will be "free" from the Nazis at Micro$haft and with the help of their "partners" in digital crime rings.

 

True, it will be hard to stop the march. While we are all screaming about it the tide will continue to rise. I am using W10 at the moment but have little hope of a policy adjustment. I hate to say it but for PC's the glory days of Windows may just be dead.

This is a truly bad decision on their part. They want to gain mobile device traction on the back of PC owners but if they do not buy in that could kill their plans. The other problem is metro apps stink, as an example with the Amazon app I can not even track packages etc.. For the PC it is $15 for their DVD app, pay to play Solitaire?

 

I know that I have no plans to buy their garbage. I don't want it or need it. I will keep using whatever I want to use for as long as it works, with or without any kind of support.

For selfish reasons that I offer no apologies for, I really do hope their plans unravel and I hope it ends very badly for them. I don't want them to go out of business, but I do want whatever it takes to happen in order to get their attention. When they take away end-user freedom and choice, they sign their own death warrant as far as I am concerned. They do not deserve to be successful under those circumstances and the only way they will realize the gravity of their indiscretions is through financial adversity and consumer rejection.

I have updated post #1 and #2.

Affected models identified:

• Alienware 17
• Alienware 18
• Alienware M18xR1
• Alienware M18xR2

As of 8/9/2015 all reported LCD failures involve:

• Windows 10 Operating System
• NVIDIA GPUs (780M, 880M and 980M)
• 60Hz LVDS Samsung and LG Displays

It appears systems running UEFI without Legacy/CSM support may be able to boot from HDMI or mini-DP even when they experience 8-beeps and fail to POST using the native display.

It appears the limited number of Alienware 17" single GPU laptops with 120Hz eDP 3D-capable display may be exempt from issues. No reports of LCD failures with this configuration as of 8/9/2015.

It appears that using drivers older than 353.62 may help avoid this problem, but there is not enough information to suggest that doing so is actually safe. Some with affected models are using older drivers, including my 345.20 desktop driver mod, under Windows 10 and have not experienced this issue... yet.
-----------------------------
@[Nikos] thanks for the info...

GeForce 353.62 drivers for Windows 10 can knock out your laptop | The Bungling Computer

 

Are all the affected machines running custom bios and/or vbios? Could it play a part in this kind of problem?

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First, sorry I didn't read the whole thread, just glanced over it, so if some things have already been said or contradicted, I'm sorry.

Just some brainstorming and thoughts:

Did any of the people it happened to have the 3D Vision drivers installed (does Windows 10 install those by default - I don't really know because on my Nvidia desktops first thing I did after installing Windows 10 I turned off automatic driver updating and ran Display Driver Uninstaller to install the drivers from Nvidia's site custom without 3D vision or GeForce Experience)?
Also, did you use the Windows Update version of the drivers or the standalone Notebook or Desktop version from Nvidia's site on a clean install?
It's a long shot, but I've been thinking that perhaps 3D vision is somehow involved in causing the display to be oveclocked to 120Hz (60Hz per eye) which might kill a 60Hz display if there isn't a proper safety in it. Especially since 120Hz Monitors don't seem to be affected.
I've seen this happen on my Nvidia based Desktop PC a couple of years ago when 3D vision was still fresh, after installing some new Nvidia drivers with the fast install option which also installed 3D vision (even though I didn't use it), my Monitor shortly showed an odd image and briefly displayed the message "120Hz" and then spazzed out never to come alive again. It wasn't on Windows 10, though, but also a Samsung 60Hz screen (don't ask me the exact screen model, video cards or Windows version I used, because I don't remember, it's been a while - I also didn't pursue it any further for it gave me an excuse to upgrade to a bigger screen instead). I've never installed a 3D vision driver since. Just a thought that came to my mind here that could or could not be related to the failures.

Another thing that could be, if you are running full UEFI is that the UEFI driver in the BIOS is clocking the display too high, since I understand that driver would already kick in on bootup.

PS.: I'm on AMD cards on my M18x-R2 and Windows 10 Home 64 bit and haven't been affected so far. But, I've also switched to the Intel GPU before installing Windows 10 in full UEFI mode (since my previous OS with full UEFI/Legacy disabled didn't show the desktop on my Radeons even with UEFI compatible video card BIOS but did on my Intel GPU but got stuck on the "Starting Windows" screen while the desktop seemed to work in the background - and I thought I'd play it safe to be able to install it in full UEFI), had all drivers updated, then turned off automatic driver updating, ran the latest version of DDU in safe mode to kill any AMD driver remnants and switched to my dedicated GPUs and manually installed the new Windows 10 drivers from AMD's site. Windows 10 works fine on my system with fast boot and full UEFI/non-Legacy, by the way. Not sure if this info is useful at all, probably not, but I just thought I'd put it out here in case it is nonetheless.

 

@Mr. Fox - Am I able to Upgrade to a 120hz screen so this doesn't happen again or are they not even available for the M18x R1? Part numbers would be greatly appreciated if you know them.


Edit:
I found the part number for a direct replacement if anyone is interested:
8075V LCD, W/PMMA+Frame+Bracket+WLAN Antenna
DNF7J LCD, W/PMMA+Frame+Bracket+WLAN & DMC Antenna

 

@ Glzmo - no, custom install on the Nvidia drivers without 3Dvision. Also, yes I am running SLV7's VBIOS on my 780M's - and I can still see their splash screen with a VGA monitor hooked up, but still get looping 8 beeps.

@Sspawn26 - I don't think that the M18X R1, R2, or M18X are compatible with 120 Hz displays as they were never sold with a 120Hz display. Only 60 Hz part number HGT3J for the R1 and R2, and I'm not sure what the part number is for the M18X (R3).

 

@Glzmo I am not using a modded BIOS or vBIOS on my AW18. 8 beeps, no post (without HDMI cable).

 

@Arestavo thanks for the info and the part number
@Glzmo i am using unlocked A05 bios with Slv7 vBios on a single 780m (M18x R1). I'm able to see the vBios screen with HDMI, but as soon as it's supposed to switch to the Alienware bios it starts the 8 beeps and I'm unable to proceed any further.

 

no reports of AUO panels failing in the AW17.

@woodzstack which drivers in particular?

 

...And if anyone needs a CLEVO who was once an ALIENWARE owner, I have specials for you.
I think only stick to 352.84 and 353.17 drivers. I tested those two on about 20 laptops, and have had no issue myself.
If anyone knows for certain if either of those two specific drivers caused them an issue, let me know, but i think they're safe, they're just like a month or so behind, but otherwise work great !
(The Witcher 3 I recommend the 352.84 driver, and if your using other DX10 games and you get those up and downs in FPS try the 353.17

 

No, that makes no difference whatsoever. The problem is caused by Windows 10 and NVIDIA drivers both being screwed up really bad.

Not available in 18.4 and not compatible. Those 120Hz screens require an eDP port on the motherboard, which none of the 18" units have. They are all LVDS.

 

And the fact I am using stock BIOS and vBIOS proves it (that's even visible in the video I made).


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I might try those drivers when I move to win 10. Might mean I need to reinstall Windows 7 or sacrifice my win 8.1 key. Though I would pay for the pro version as that feels more like the tech tinkerer's version of Windows 10.

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EDIT: i wonder if it is possible to run a 60hz panel through the EDP port?

 

Ok thanks, gonna try win10 on m17xr4 with 780m svl7 bios and 120hz screen, I think I'm safe then? Also running legacy in bios...

 

should just put it to uefi in case.

 

You should be fine. Setting it to UEFI mode before installing Windows 10 is a good idea. That might allow you to boot using an HDMI or DP monitor if the LCD gets messed up. If you don't do that at the start, there is no way to access the BIOS to change it without replacing the display panel with one that has not been messed up. I have not seen a report of an Alienware with a 120Hz eDP display with this problem so far. All the affected systems have 60Hz LVDS so far. Since there is no compelling reason to use Windows 10 yet and DX12 games are essentially non-existent it certainly would not hurt to wait another 3 to 6 months for Micro$haft and NVIDIA to get their heads screwed on straight.

You're not going to be missing anything special by sticking with Windows 7 or 8 for the time being. Notwithstanding Windows 8's aesthetic atrocities, both of the previous generation operating systems are actually a superior product. Considering the Windows 10 Preview lasted almost a year, the way it turned out is totally inexcusable. By not upgrading until they have had more time to fix all of their mistakes you will be saving yourself a bunch of hassles. Windows 10 is nothing special and it has more security issues than you can shake a stick at. It may never be a "safe" operating system. The way it is designed is a real abortion... like Windows 8, but worse due to more limited user control and configuration options and insane telemetry features that should make everyone scared enough to vomit.

 

i know @woodzstack is using UEFI because they wanted to see if you can run a R4 with a 980M in dedicated mode and while you can it's definitely because you need UEFI. they also run on 60hz panel.

i am still waiting for my display cable and it has been nearly 3 weeks since it was shipped from china...JHC!

 

Run it on UEFI... No harm done there...

 

Windows 10 at its current state is evern worse than those Preview Builds man, I lost count of the bugs but I figured out my around them all.

 

I have aborted Windows 10, used the go back to Win 8.1 feature. Waste of time that was; nothing worked right when I rolled back! I then wiped my SSD clean, & installed a fresh copy of Win 8.1... After all updates & driver were installed, still 8 beeps, no post. Only way I can post is if the HDMI cable is connected. No other way. The damage folks, is permanent. Get a new LCD & save time.


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does anyone know when Alienware switched from LG panels to AUO panels?

 

Yes when they did the minor haswell 'refresh' to the 4*10 series (for example from the 4700 to 4710) but some later units received a CMO panel as well.

 

i got my AW17 in march 2014 and it came with an AUO panel.

 

The older models either got a AUO or LG panel and it's a bit of a lottery as always, the later ones didn't get the LG panel (the TL B3 was already quite an old panel and LG quit making them) but only the AUO or CMO.

Exact panel types:
LG LP173WF1 TL B3
AUO B173HW02 V1
CMO N173HGE L11

And btw a little fun fact: the AUO is least of the bunch and inferior to the older B173HW01 V5, the LG and CMO are quite decent for 60hz tn panels. The CMO has a high contrast and deep blacks but grainy dithering for greys. the LG has a 97% SRGB coverage.

 

hmmm....ok, cos i am still wondering if AUO panels will fail too, though no one has come forward if it has.

 

I hope not but don't mind testing it on my spare V5 panel on the 17 with the 880M (has a blue hot pixel on it unfortunately).

 

mine is B173HW02 V1.