thread created on nvida forums about the 880s and the bs that there doing.. go reply!

https://forums.geforce.com/default/...here-new-drivers-look-for-a-nvidia-response-/

 

Posted. I've joined this conversation as I'm extremely annoyed at Nvidia right now. I hope they come to there senses and actually fix the problems that are killing our 880m's.

 

Can someone tell me what's exactly going on?

 

John found out that the recent drivers from Nvidia, now carry a flag. If your driver crashed a set amount of times. This flag is enabled in the vbios. The vbios will then throttle the 880m down to around 130mhz. Not only that. Up until yesterday, I had no problem with OC my 880m. As soon as I insalled the latest beta driver, I hit a brick wall.

Ok, so I've come to realise that this is some sort of intermittent problem now. Nvidia Inspector will allow to change my voltage and memory clock every now and again. I mean, before I loaded it up after a restart. It wouldn't let me change anything other than my core clock. I then closed the program and booted up 3D Mark 11. I then opened up NI again. This time, it allowed me to change all settings. I then closed it again, and reopened. Boom, back to the brick wall. I have no idea what the problem is. What's odd, is that the NI will allow me change my core clock all the way up to just over 500+. It will only allow me set the core clock above 100+ with my stock vbios, so NI does realise that I have a modified vbios still. I just don't know it won't let me change the memory clock and voltage. Slv, any thoughts matey?

These are just 2 examples out of many problems that are hindering the 880m right now.

 

Pardon my language, but what the hell? I haven't read through the threads. So, I've been oblivious to this entirely. But that's ridiculous...

EDIT: Oh, I see the scores below.

 

I'll quote this here as extra ammunition...

 

Yeah, that's a bit ridiculous. The 780M's should not be outperforming the 880M's.

EDIT: Even though I do not own the 880M, I posted in support of this petition. It is clear to me that there is an issue.

 

Here's another example... c'mon guys... what does it take to get you pissed off enough to comment at the Geforce Community?

 

Exactly brother J.Dre. Also, a flag should not be added to be enabled once a driver crashes just 1 to many times. John's as well as a few others, have encountered the flag enabled. It's throttled there GPU that much, that there cards now run worse than an Intel 4600HD.

 

Can't wait for the next AMD chip

 

Me neither. The 7970M is such a great card.

 

Peformance wise the 7970m's are nothing to scoff at. They just break easy.

 

Well it looks like nVidia is taking pages from the AMD playbook so... *shrug*

 

next next card will be the r9 295x and it will run drain 250w....so dont w8 for it
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2587/radeon-r9-m295x.html

 

Thank you to everyone who contributed in that thread, hopefully your voice will be heard and nVidia realizes that the enthusiast community will not take it lying down.

 

Yeah this is a bad place to be. Now's the time to make your voices heard.

 

Well at this point, Nvidia is the only one that could save our 880m's. Not even the masterminds, John and Slv, can find a solution for ridding the vbios flag. I'm yet to hear from either of them regarding the latest beta driver making there vbios glitch.

 

I replied using the link at the beginning of the thread. I hope they address this.

 

Honestly I thought I'd see more posters considering how much money these systems cost. Cmon fella's! Be the change you want to see :thumbsup:

 

Yeah, the inaction is really disappointing. Same scenario as when great concepts are posted at IdeaStorm. Literally thousands read the threads requesting their participation but maybe a dozen or two actually lift a finger. People love to whine and complain about their lack of options or purchasing regrets, but heaven forbid that they do anything to help a cause even when it costs nothing but a few minutes of their time. It's really pathetic. No wonder we see crap like 7970M getting recycled for 3 years, 880M being broken and Alienware crippling their laptops. Like lambs to slaughter...

Maybe if more people reported the troll in post #3 it would at least get looked at by a Geforce Forums moderator.

LOL, I see what you did there... I have zero confidence in AMD being a good answer to NVIDIA's mistake with 880M. I'm open to being impressed if they actually do something good, but I haven't seen an example of greatness from their brand for so long I'm not about to hold my breath. I have no reason for hope that they will actually release something truly amazing in mobile graphics. By amazing, I mean something that does not prematurely fail and something able to have the living crap overclocked out of it. (I have no interest whatsoever in a belly button gamer GPU that works nice stock, but doesn't handle overclocking and overvolting well.) Zebras typically don't change their stripes.

 

I'm more worried about this carrying over to Maxwell...

 

There is every reason to be worried about it carrying over to Maxwell. They are already doing a good job of brainwashing people into thinking Maxwell is going to be awesome with nothing concrete to base it on. By that, I mean show me something that can not only catch but beat my overclocked 780M cards and you'll have my attention. Show me some thing less than that and I'll shut you down because I don't care what you're selling, I'm not buying it. Being the skeptic that I am on new tech, I fully expect another snow job and I don't expect I will be happy with it. I will enjoy being wrong because who doesn't want something more extreme. But, if I am correct I will be there with the links for the "I told you so" comments and still benching my old stuff, ripping the heads off of the new machines with an old one.

I would not be surprised to see something that performs roughly on par with 680M surround by a lot of "yeah but" excuses about lower consumption, efficiency and other utter baloney that is characteristic of the "yeah but" approach to doing business. There is also reason to be worried about it making AMD worse than they already are, too. They will rise to their level of incompetence and stay there without a bloody battle for supremacy being the most important thing for them. That's a really bad place to be. I wish for the way things used to be with the red versus green wars. It was better when you had to savor owning the best quickly because it was displaced by something more powerful if you blinked twice. This recycled GPU stuff is getting old, but beware of what might follow. Sometimes you don't realize what you've got until its gone.

 

Well after expeircing what the latest beta driver did to my single 880m. I would say that this can be easily added to the Maxwell version. I hold no hope in regard to a Nvidia releasing a stable card in the near future. They know full well why our 880m's are crippled. It says it all, by the lack of communication from them on there own forum. By they way brother Fox. I still can't Windows 7 installed.

 

Having Secure Boot enabled probably screwed up your disks. This is not new... happened a TON when the M18xR2 started selling with Secure Poot enabled. Everyone's new SSDs were "invisible" LOL. That problem disappeared (along with some others) when they stopped shipping them with Secure Poot enabled.

Make a backup of anything you don't want to lose. Wipe out everything using the Diskpart "Clean" command on your drives and start over from scratch. Put the BIOS in Legacy Mode. You can easily change it to UEFI with Legacy Option ROM instead of pure Legacy Mode after Windows is installed. Install Windows 7 first, then Windows 8, if you are planning to dual boot. I recommend installing each OS on its own separate drive.

 

Amen to that. I'm personally sick of seeing re-branded offerings....580m = 675m etc etc......it really makes me wonder how they get away with the same old hogwash time after time. Do they think we are thick? - I mean, they could call a re-badged GPU whatever they like......maybe the new GTX 990m.....if it doesn't offer up the goodies, I ain't buying it......and right now, with the current shenanigans, there is not a cat in hells chance that I would even think about buying a new machine with 'fresh meat' GPU's until they had been thoroughly proven to be better than the crap rolled out before.....

Bleeding edge of technology is just that - meaning: be prepared to get cut and suffer, or take the gamble to do so. Of course, it should not be like that......but with the way things have been of late, it seems that they can get away with it, which is a shame.

(Now, let me go post over on that appeal thread, even though I don't have any 880m's.......people just can't get away with this kind of crap - not with peoples hard earned money, it's tantamount to theft.)

 

Don't place all of the blame on nVidia either. Start getting on Dell and Clevo's asses about the problems with refreshing the same part over and over. If the builders would refuse to put refresh hardware in their machines, then it would force nVidia and AMD both to actually come out with a new product or get stuck with the bill for the old one that nobody is buying.

The problem is bigger than just nVidia. Not a single one of us has a reference card so we have no idea what nVidia had tweaked in the vbios originally versus what Dell and Clevo chose to do with their own cards. From what I understand, the MSI cards don't throttle and will run clear up to 93C before throttling begins... Not that this is ideal, because I think most of us feel sorry for the people who bought MSI machines, but it comes down to what is more important to us. Temperatures or speed... Dell and Clevo both prefer temperatures big time in their stock configs. My stock vbios has yet to pass 88C under full load and it only touched 88C when I was really pushing the cards with 8xMSAA otherwise I had not seen over 87C and that's before the fans ever even hit their max (they don't max in a Clevo until 91-92C)... There is room to loosen the temperatures a bit... The problem with the modded vbios is that it removes the restrictions entirely so now you have the speed but have to figure out how to deal with the incredible heat. Its a lose lose situation.

 

The re-branding is not Dell's fault. It's Intel, NVIDIA, and AMD that started this.

You're right about not putting blame on one company - it's all of them that are screwing up.

 

If the builders are getting a lot of flack from customers who refuse to buy the new parts, that is much more likely to convince AMD and nVidia to stop doing it than causing an uproar on a few message boards. Sager will still give you 780s if you special order them while Dell will not. Sager is more customer focused to the needs of an enthusiast than Dell by a long shot though so that's not really surprising.

On the flip side though... I didn't have my laptop very long before I flashed the modded vbios... and now that I'm back on stock, I have to say that I'm not upset about the performance at all. The benchmarks are extremely annoying but there is no throttling in games that actually flip the utilization to 80+% (which Watch Dogs and Witcher 2 are the only two I have that do so) and with the GPU down-clocking in games that don't need the faster performance, my temps are stupid low compared to my old 260M GTX cards which did not have boost and thus ran 86+C in everything all the time.

 

I agree... it's all of their faults... and it is partially ours collectively for being too quick to believe new means better. We all do this and it comes back to bite us. We read a review and look at specs and assume way too much. We need to be more skeptical, very critical, and more vocal about the things we don't appreciate. We put up with a lot of stuff and the vendors know that. This is not just hardware... think about how many totally sucky games have been released just this year... amazing trailers and they turn out to be crappy console ports that have all kinds of issues.

NOT SELLING a new GPU would be really bad for Alienware, Clevo or any other "high performance" laptop vendor. Those that were around here when 7970M came out will probably remember what asinine drama there was around Alienware offering 7970M early and Clevo holding back due to defects. Alienware picked up some business for no reason other than the cray cray fanboys that just absolutely had to be the first in their corner of the world to have what promised to be the to-die-for NVIDIA killer. Well, that didn't turn out like we hoped (we means me, too) and then a similar drama came about with 680M not being readily available. Shipments were delayed due to stock issues and oh the threats about changing brands because of mistreatment, LOL. It happened again when Alienware stopped offering 680M with SSD configurations and then to some extent with 780M. And then there is the Haswell fiasco. Everyone was holding off on buying a new laptop because Haswell was going to be "da bomb" LOL... we see how that turned out.

People will want and demand stuff because it is new even before anyone is truly certain whether or not it is better. If you believe what you read in reviews before the end user field testing begins it might turn out right... maybe not. Unfortunately, I have learned this lesson more than once and hope to avoid early adopter disease from here on out. I want the best, but I'm not too keen about being one of the first to spend my money on something that might turn out to be not so hot any more. I like the idea of letting someone else take the loss, if there is one, and being an observer first.

 

Good points you make... Its a no win situation really.

To be completely honest, if I was coming from a video card that was even 2 generations removed, I'd be pissed like everyone else about the 880Ms but I'm coming from an i5-2450M with an Intel HD 3000 and before that, an M17xR1 with 260M GTX SLI... This system is a dream to me.

The same could be said about the processor... I'm annoyed with seeing older parts getting higher clocks but going from 2.53GHz on 2 cores with 4 threads to 3.79GHz on 4 cores with 8 threads is an absolutely monstrous jump for me. Hell my desktop that I have in my closet is a Q6600 with an AMD 5830 (and originally was built with a 7900GT then an 8800 GTS before the AMD) so really I'm so far behind that all of this stuff is amazing to me now.

But of course, eye of the beholder comes into play and I'm sure you can understand why I'm not complaining about a machine that I can do more than play SNES games and some PS2 titles with

At least we know Maxwell isn't a refresh... but that's about all that we really know. The 860M isn't really all that different from Kepler from what I've seen so I don't think we have any idea of what Maxwell will really bring yet and that's just how nVidia wants it.

As far as AMD is concerned... if you buy AMD, you should expect nothing less than a card that dies on you within a year. At least nVidia doesn't have that repuatation.

 

You know, I've always wondered whether AMD's cards suffering a premature death might have something to do with inadequate VRM cooling rather than simple core overheating. Especially when you consider that VRMs do all the heavy lifting and are actually the hottest running components on the entire card. This is also why I freaked out when I discovered my warped 780M was the root cause for poor contact between the VRM and the heatsink. I literally refused to put any load on it until I got 2.5mm pads to close the gap and fix the issue.

 

I've had problems with AMD cards all the way back to the old ATI 9800 XT and X800GTO days... They've never made reliable cards, desktop or laptop.

 

I think I've upset them over in that thread. All my posts are hidden now, since I posted 18 minutes ago. I guess they didn't like the fact that I had evidence to prove that they are miss selling there 880m. I've contacted [email protected] for a reason as to why my posts are now hidden. I've also linked them directly to the thread. Now they should see the thread.

 

They can't silence us all, I'll try to keep bumping the thread so it always stays on the first page. Boy I have a feeling we're all going to end up getting IP banned over there LOL

 

Well the thread is a ligitimate complaint. Nvidia a really screwing their customers on this one. The saddest part is it would be an easy fix for them if they wanted to show us some respect.

 

My posts have been re-enabled. The staff support member said that there spam system is acting up. How convenient hey.

 

Total Bollocks.. They were trying to censor you and when you complained, they realised it would get ugly so they re-enabled them...

 

Damn straight. They don't like people like myself or Mr. Fox, as we both nail there to the coffins with proof. Guys, get your benching on and start posting up your stock scores in 3D Mark 11 or Heaven. Show them that the stock speed goes no higher than 954mhz during the entire tests. Also tell them that you will sue them. If we all rally against them with everything we have. They will have no choice but to respond and give us the answer we deserve.

 

I hate to say this but the sad reality is that due to the way Boost is advertised, you can't sue them over it. First off, Boost is added on top of the stock clock if conditions allow... But those conditions are variable and at this point, they can kick it to the card manufacturer who makes the vbios that goes on production cards, eliminating their responsibility entirely. You'd have to threaten to sue Dell over it, not nVidia, and its most likely not actionable.

The best you can hope for is to lobby them enough that it causes enough of a stir to make media waves and hurt nVidia's bottom line. Boycotts are the best way to do this but I don't see any of us ditching our 880Ms for AMD cards on principle. nVidia knows that as well.

Its the same reason why Intel gets away with all of the crap that they do... Because the competition is not a more attractive option to the customer base that is throwing a fit.

 

I know full well I would never be able to sue them over this. As there is not actual advertised boost speed. I'm just that annoyed at them, I just wanted to vent. It's the first thing that came to my head at the time that I posted that comment on the geforce forum. What's even more frustrating now, is the fact I linked the staff member to our thread, and all she did, was re-enable my posts and then turned a blind eye. I mean come on. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there's something seriously wrong with your product if multiple customers are complaining.

 

The sad truth is that the number of performance enthusiasts that would notice and complain about such things are far fewer in number than people who buy the machine, put their games on it, see the games are fast, and are happy with that then they go and buy a new machine in a year instead of squeezing the performance out of their current rig.

I used to do phone tech support and you wouldn't believe how many people don't even know that when a PC crashes, it can be recovered by a software install or replacing a part. So many gamers are extremely oblivious to anything involving their machines outside of gaming - and that's what these companies bank on.

I am starting to think that the issues will be resolved, its just a matter of time.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

They can turn a blind eye all they want, but we'll just keep making noise. At least one new buyer in that thread has expressed doubts about the 880M, so at least there's that.

 

Although nVidia has yet to respond, this thread is starting to get people's attention. For once I actually feel like we might be able to make a difference.

 

I've not been doing any benching for the past day or so. I've had a few driver crashes at stock settings with Slv and John's vbios. It's happened by just web browsing. My Nvidia card never idles any more either. I also think that 1V is not enough for the constant boost speed (993mhz) from what I can tell. I think the modified vbios may need some fine tuning to clean up Nvidia's mess they made with driver 340.43.

I've sent an email to the geforce forum admin. I've linked them to our thread in hope that they will actually look into this matter now. Fingers crossed guys.

 

I just checked to see what was going on in that thread... not much, unfortunately. No response from NVIDIA and an underwhelming show of complacency by the enthusiast community as well.

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Shocking to see a total lack of comment from Nvidia.....terrible.

 

Total score between 780M and 880M is almost 9% but the GPU score is a measly 2.5% difference (Neglible, probably just a couple of tiny tweaks needed to match them).
The CPU score with Mr Fox 3920XM is however 27% higher than Ethrem`s 4940XM CPU score....
Combined score is also 8% better than Ethrem`s Combined score.

All in all, the CPU is the culprint here. NOT the GTX 880M.

Again, same story here as well.
The GPU score between your system and Ethrem`s 880M is actually below 1%.
CPU score however is 5% greater with Mr Fox 3920XM against Ethrem`s 4940XM. Which reflect on the total score, since it will drag the total score down (by measly 2%).

I`m surprised you people don`t know how to read the results.
Its the CPU that is the culprint. Again.

You guys are barking up the wrong tree.

 

Not many companies these days honor the clientele who granted them success to begin with. Feels like a double whammy for me at the moment. Between Alienware as of late and Nvidia's lack of customer service and product manipulation, I'm uncertain where my future purchases are going. I made sure to pay my respects to the OP thread.

 

ROFLMAO at your silly numbers stuff. It is pretty bizarre that almost everyone that owns it knows first hand that it is broken, yet someone that does not skims over a few posts is able to boldly proclaim to everyone that is having problems they are mistaken and everything is fine. OK, you go right ahead and believe that, LOL. I was a bit surprised you would even momentarily think I don't know how to interpret the results, but then I realized you aren't paying attention. The whole point of the comparisons was based on that lonely sample of 880M appearing to actually function correctly, but it appears you totally missed that component of the discussion. The differences in results were small by intent, fully expecting exactly that, on a system with 880M working correctly. There's no rocket science in that. However, if we need proof that, by and large, the product is broken, we have no need to look any further than the abundance of the examples of malfunction in this community and Tech|Inferno.

I agree with your comments about Haswell being no good, and I also agree that a minor tweak can most likely fix whatever is messed up with 880M. We don't know what to tweak or it would be fixed already. Until we figure that out, it's broken and it runs like crap for a lot of people that spent big money on something that should be every bit as good or better than 780M.

 

So where are the posts showing the 880M system performing less than 780M...?
Its not silly numbers. Numbers don`t lie. Thats the beauty of it Mr Fox.

I see you acting all doom everytime 880M are mentioned, but I have yet to see any evidence to show that Ethram`s 880M performing less than a 780M. Last post I saw from him was when he showed graphs from two games, where the most demanding game had the clock locked at turbo boost and his temperatures was in place with the right vbios.
His 3DMark benches showed the 880M score more than a 780M, but total score was down because of the combined score.