'OpenMac' Promises $399 Headless Mac... But Not From Apple

Haha, publicity stunt . Certainly got all our attention. Now when they release something, no need to market, we'll do the marketing for them .

 

Maybe... but there's also some good evidence that it's not a hoax:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/psystar-openmac-apple,5205.html

 

I'd buy one. I've been looking for a Mac that wasn't a ripoff.

 

The Minis are a pretty good value. Very small, not high-powered but they don't hawg up your entire desktop either. So are the Macbook Pros. I'm happy with my Macbook. Yes, Apple hardware tends to be a bit expensive. For the price of the Macbook Air, Sony gives you a machine that weighs even less and still has an internal optical drive. But it comes with... A different OS. You get what you pay for. I'll stick with Apple.

I'm a bottom feeder from way back and I waited way to long to make the switch. Now I know better and my advice is this, returning to the car analogy... If you like driving a Yugo, you go ahead. Careful crossing bridges, though.

 

Unfortunately R0k at the moment the Minis are not a good value. The current specs are laughable at the price they are right now.

A good valued Mini right now should be as follows:

$599
Core 2 Duo 2.2 Ghz
2GB
Superdrive
320 GB HDD
GMA X3100

$799
Core 2 Duo 2.4 Ghz
2GB
Superdrive
500 GB HDD
Ati Radeon 2600XT with a BTO option of Nvidia 8600GT

Also at this time Apple should now be including the keyboard and mouse for goodness sake.

 

There are updates coming some time this year, but I decided not to wait. I just picked up the current $800 model. It's a 2 Ghz with 1 Gig of RAM and 120 Gig HDD and superdrive.

I see part of the value is the diminutive packaging. I'm not taking Apple to task for not giving me the same amount of stuff I would get if I went to Microcenter and bought everything and built it myself. I value Apple's integration, testing and packaging. While I wish it was cheaper, it's a good value if the size and design are important considerations.

Hp has a small model and so does Dell but they are both larger, heavier and hotter than a mini. And they have some other sort of OS.

In such a small package, I'm not screaming for content so much as I'm appreciating the small size. And yes, a wired keyboard should be included by now. Even if they just hand you the $50 wired keyboard as a free add-on. Keep in mind, the mini is targeted at somebody who has a windows box, monitor and keyboard and wants to replace the windows box without throwing out the monitor and keyboard. I haven't tried a windows keyboard on a mini, but I wouldn't be suprised if the keys are all mapped and all work. Irony of ironies, I bet the windows key winds up being the apple key .

I don't want that Radeon or Nvidia stuff near any box I'm using. I don't want 50 watts of heat going up to support 3d graphics and all I'm doing is pushing around a few k of text.

 

Curious, which one do you consider a rip off?

I'm always amused by ignorant people who claim they can build an equivalent of the Mac Pro for $1200 or so. Which is funny. Each of the Mac Pro processors go for $700 off newegg. On top of that, server motherboards are very expensive as is the ram. I'd say the Mac Pro is one of the best priced machines they have. But they REALLY do need a normal tower.

Though, don't get me wrong, not saying that you are one of the people I'm referring to above.

 

Yeah... that's the thing. The Mac Pro is a great value for the very few people who would actually benefit significantly from having 8 cores instead of just 4 and the workstation/server-type components. For the other 99.5% of people, it's just ridiculous overkill.

Average users or even users who are fairly performance-oriented would be just as well served by a well-equipped single-processor Core 2 Quad desktop tower that could cost around $1000 or less.

I think that's basically what the Psystar people recognized.

 

Hmmm... $3400 (cheapest Mac Pro) for watching anime and looking at porn? Sounds like a bit of a rip off to me. Even the Mac Mini at $850 is $300 more expensive than the Asus P20, with comes with a newer chipset, larger harddrive and DVD burner.

I think the choice is easy enough.

 

I like overkill though (Starting with my 430hp 8.3l engine that is in my car). My Mac Pro does get alot of use though...

I think if Apple released the Mac Pro with a single Core2Duo chip, and DDR2 memory, they could have a nice mid-priced tower. But that is just my opinion...

Lysander; The Mac Pro may not be cost effective for you, but it really is the best deal that Apple has going right now. You can't even build something to similar specs for the same price as Apple sells them for.

 

Where you from? In the US, the cheapest Mac Pro is around $2300. If you buy a Mac Pro to watch anime and look at porn, you quite simply would be an idiot. It's a workstation / server. Not a consumer level desktop.

It's for doing real hard number crunching and what not. If I was just gonna use a computer to watch anime and porn, I'd buy an iMac. Or just use my linux box

 

I presume that's why you are using a Hackintosh?

 

If it aint a scam them why hasn't Apple shut them down yet?

 

Well, I don't think Apple can really do anything until they actually ship a product.

But for right now, I think Apples watching. Most everyone feels its a scam. Even reading the THG article raises red flags.

 

Uh... because Apple can't do that.

A Florida court or U.S. federal court could do it at Apple's request, but Apple would need to show a legal basis for that, and I'm not convinced they have one... and even if they do, it might take some time.

 

Actually, it appears they do. They don't really need to get into the EULA. Part of the way the hackintosh's work is by emulating the EFI. Well, not exactly emulating...
Anyway, as I understand it, they actually had to grab and modify the code for the EFI. Which... is illegal... but I may be wrong on how exactly the whole OSx86 stuff works. I don't know a whole lot about it, but I've heard from others that there are several parts of the tool that violate certain laws that can be upheld in court. Again, I don't know the specifics.

Keep in mind... that a company having this much trouble getting their own address right certainly doesn't have the money to put any sort of legal battle.

That and the OSx86 guys are really unhappy about their work being sold.... So far Apple has ignored them. Not sure why, but maybe because they're not trying to make money off Apple and they also aren't trying to get people to pirate OS X.

One day, Apple will be challenged in court regarding the whole EULA issue with only being able to run OS X on Apple hardware. I don't see much of an issue with it myself... but I wonder what the outcome will be of that.

 

Huh? EFI is an open standard... it's not an Apple thing... anyone can implement it.

But they didn't have to mess with it much. They just used an existing open source EFI emulator... which it appears they were licensed to distribute until the other day when the author got annoyed that they followed the license and decided to change the license. But even in that case, they can still use the older license for versions of the software that they obtained under that license.

Even if Psystar doesn't bother to send a lawyer to the court, the judge will require evidence that laws are being broken before taking any action. In other words, they still have to have a case. And a legal case... not just a bunch of people who are angry or upset.

A bunch of people being unhpappy does not make for any sort of legal case. It's a start, but it's not sufficient.
Also, I haven't heard anything about piracy related to this issue... at worst it's a violation of some EULA terms... but piracy as I've heard it used before means using or distributing more copies than you've paid for. (Maybe some people believe that breaking other software license terms is piracy... I don't know.)

Me too.

 

The EFI in Apple is specific to them. It's their own implementation of it from what I gathered from the OSx86 system. Also, they have to work around the TMP module. It may have been that item that they had to steal the code in order to work or something.

I bet that if Apple feels like it, they could crush Psystar under legal pressure. They may or may not do it though. I'm betting that not only breaking the EULA but also questionable activities regarding actually how they were able to get leopard on there is enough to suspend their business.

I don't mean that Psystar is trying to sell pirated copies. I meant that OSx86 specifically wants people to NOT pirate OS X. However, Psystar does not have a license to sell Leopard. I'm not sure what kind of legal procedures Apple can follow with that however.

 

Well, the legality of it won't be determined on this forum anyway. I haven't seen anything that convinces me that they did anything illegal, and that stuff about stealing code that they weren't licensed to use is really just speculation. But if Apple does decide to challenge it, then the legality will have to be determined in the court system. Unless they reach some agreement or settlement with Apple or something.

If Psystar is really shipping these computers, then we'll see if they're still operating in a few weeks, and if they are, then some hands-on reviews of their computers should start appearing on tech sites around the internet for us to read.

 

GRUB, an open source bootloader, can support EFI booting, so it doesn't matter if Apple use their own bodgied-up version, Psystar can just use a different bootloader. And, they don't have to use a TPM chip in their computers if they don't want to, Leopard runs fine on machines without one.

It's easy enough to get a retail sellers license for Leopard. I have a uni friend who is authorised to sell them. Psystar may have one of these already.

I'm from Australia, where Apple seems fit to rip us off more than in the US. The iMac is not an option either. I already have a nice 24" monitor that I don't want to get rid of (for my PS3), and they start at $1700 for the base model. I could build two 8600GT mini desktops for that much.

A refreshed, fairly priced mini would make me look twice, but until then, Apple just can't have any more of my money.

 

Ah, Australia. Yeah, Apple products are extremely pricey in Australia.

 

Right, but emulating the TPM chip, from what I understand, requires reverse engineering the TPM code. I.E. stealing the code the chip uses. Not 100% sure. But Leopard DOES NOT RUN fine on machines without one unless they emulate it.

Sure... easy enough to get one. But does psystar have one? Not too sure about that.

Well, I can't say the minis are well priced. And I agree... WTF is up with apple not having a consumer level desktop? **** the imac. all in ones are fine for consumers who aren't enthusiasts... but the Mac Pro is way over kill.

And I can't argue that there are issues with Apples pricings outside the US. But in the US, they aren't that bad. Seriously, a DIY Mac Pro will cost you only about $400 less... thats using the same processor, ECC ram, and one of those server motherboards. That crap is super expensive.

Apple is priced abit higher than everyone else. And I feel sorry for people outside the US who have to pay so much extra. That is insane. I know there are certain taxes (such as VAT) that they can't control. But dang... sometimes... I wonder.