2010 MBP 13 dates Vaio Z11 - side by side snaps

LOL you win...
anyway, personally i dont really like the separated keys, i find that it makes it harder to type.. although it may make the laptop better looking

 

I already know that Sony came up with the chicklet style keyboard but I'm just referring to the specific black chicklet style that apple has designed this time around with the aluminum (or rather silver look) with the black keys with white backlighting.

You can clearly see that Sony has copied apple this time around.

 

While you are mentioning chiclet keyboard copy by Sony you should also mention that Apple started rectangular notebook design and everybody else started making rectangular notebook....

 

Well I'm not saying who first started using the "chicklet" keyboard, I'm just looking at the layout/colors/backlight keyboard and to me the 13" sony z11 looks exactly like the macbook pro's design. Same thing with HP's Envy.

Like I said before, imitation is the highest form of flattery. I've also read somewhere a long time ago that one of the sony's lead designers joined apple's design/engineering team, thats why apple's design has adopted the chicklet style keyboard.

 

I love the way the other Apple users seem to be avoiding the conversation almost like they are embarrassed to have jjahshik32 amongst their number. Its okay to be a fan but its not okay to be a lemming. I love certain products more than others but that doesn't make me ever stop looking out for the next best thing (for me) nor does it stop me from recognizing the strengths of other competing products

 

Other apple users are probably not adding anything because I'm probably already voicing most of their opinions.

As for me only liking apple products, this isnt true. I loved the Sony Vaio TZ it was a bad little 11" notebook and the best x-black screen I've seen. I also sold my iPhone 3GS for a Nexus One (which I find the best phone I've ever owned). I love the Android platform. I basically buy and use whatever is best out there and this is it basically. I'm waiting to unlock and hopefully use tmobile's 3g on the iPhone 4 (possible now due to the true quadband, unlike the previous iPhones) so I'll give that a try. But I dont know how it can top my Nexus One though.

I'm just surprised and shocked that no one else notices that sony ripped off the macbook pro's design from apple. The same goes for the HP Envy, iPhones, iPads now. Like I said, imitation is the highest form of flattery. And not only sony copies Apple other vendors does as well for all these apple products. I find it funny how there are so many imitations. It seems that other companies make their products look like apple products on purpose to attract more customers.

And now theres going to be a windows phone. Microsoft should just stick with WM6 or WM7, 8 or whatever. Just stick with their mobile OS and let the other manufacturers continue to create the phones like motorola, htc etc..

When I first saw the sony vaio Z11, for a few seconds I literally thought it was the new Macbook Air but then realized it looked a little ODD with the keyboard spacing (ugly if you ask me) and noticed that it wasnt an apple product.

If anything to me, whenever I look at the Sony Vaio Z11, I just get disappointed because its not a mac running OSX. If that thing was the new macbook air (minus the keyboard spacing) with the same specs running OSX, I'd be ALL OVER IT. I've seen some people run hackint0sh on the z11 and looks like it runs at almost 100% since it has the same cpu/gpu. But I've been on the hackint0sh route and it never feels the same.

 

First time I saw the iPad...I had a flashback to my first experience w/ a Tablet PC, the Compaq TC1000. 10" 10x7 res screen, 1Ghz Transmeta Crusoe proc, detachable keyboard, "aluminum" finish, glass front cover, and non-removable battery. It even had the same amt of RAM at 256MB. Sure it only lasted 2 hrs and required a pen but it was 2003 and Apple had ~3% market share and was still living down the Newton's failure. I had the fun of programming an entire operating system kernel in one.



Face it there's only so many ways you can utilize design cues and every manufacturer is guilty of ripping each other off. My first Pocket PC from 2003, the Toshiba e740 still looks amazingly similar to some smartphones over the last few years but you don't see Toshiba fans bemoaning how lazy HTC is.



Fact is people have been on a big brushed aluminum kick for the last decade...my brother and I had a business that bought tons of the stuff in the early 2000's for automotive parts. It made its way to computers and Apple doesn't own the finish any more than it owns the black plastic of the blackbook or the white plastic of the whitebook.

Pen Computing Magazine: The Compact TC1000 Tablet PC (2003)

 

The only tablet pc I've ever owned was an hp 2710p and it was a good one imo as well. As for the pocket pc I cant remember what model it was but it was back in 2001, I remember returning it because it just didnt do well as a mobile device.

I know companies adopt designs off each other but to me the iPad still looks nothing like the tablet pcs to me. The design on the iPad looks totally different with the aluminum at the back with no pen required with the black boarder.

I mean a tablet pc is going to look almost all the same because its just going to be a piece of rectangular device (unless someone makes a circle or a triangle version) but my point is the color combination and the black borders and design just looks too similar when comparing other "new" tablets that are releasing to the iPad.

Just look at the sony vaio z11 with the macbook pro side by side and tell me you dont see a similarity in design??

 

The HP Envy is much closer to the MBP given its non sloped design and straight metal case.

The Z looks more like an evolution of the past Z from mid '08 which pre-dates the first unibody MB but months after the Air:


Notice the black chiclet keys, metal keyboard deck, and black lcd frame. It also continues the cylinder cue that Sony's been using for years. It came out the same year as the Air but I somehow doubt Sony was able to throw it together from the Jan release of the Air. Given Sony was stuffing a P8600, bluray, into a sub 3.5lb computer, it's certainly more impressive than fitting 1.2ghz proc computer into an envelope.

Also the aluminum lid is one of 3 options for the Z...it is also available in carbon if you've got the money.

 

I suppose it doesnt look much like the macbook pro if it comes in that color, but it looks like sony made the "macbook pro" look alike color available this year. lol.

Dont get me wrong, I do love the new Z11 (back of my mind I kind of want one after I saw a demonstration from a youtube video), I just love the display on it. If I ever do jump and grab one, I might either put Hackint0sh on it or slap on ubuntu.

But whenever the idea of buying the Z11 pops in my mind, I rather just pay the same amount and buy the 15" i5 macbook pro at $1699 (with student discount) + the $150 more for the hi res anti glare option.

I am an apple fan boy after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns00jXWmVrE

This is the video that is tempting me for the z11. That screen looks gorgeous.

 

I don't see a similarity in design.

Really, other than saying they are both silver, have black keyboards and a black screen frame they look nothing alike. The keys are spaced differently, touch pads are vastly different, flat vs wedge design, brushed aluminum and black bottom vs unibody and the Sony comes with all those UGLY stickers.

 

I'm sorry but this is the biggest cop-out I have ever read. So now you're arguing that Sony copied the colors of the keys, and the color of the backlighting? *sigh*

I agree. It's healthy to shift, and try new things. Even if you are happy with the company of the product you already tried. That's been my experience at least.

What I find funny is that you keep spewing out nonsense about how copying is the highest form of flattery, yet in every second post, you make it sound negative by using phrases like "Rip off".

Yeah, I don't see where you are coming from at all. Vaio Z is not a Unibody. It's not a whole shell made from Aluminium. It's made from Carbon Fiber. It's the evolution of a design, from a Cylinder design, with the power button on the right side of the machine. I suggest watching some of the design videos(some of them are on YT). I believe the first Z's where in development way before there was a Unibody Macbook.


Furthermore it's so uninteresting to talk about rip offs. Even if it was true in this case, it still wouldn't change the facts of the matter. Earlier in the thread we discussed the comparisons between them, and since Vaio Z obviously won in performance by the majority(even Apple users like myself), the thread have been derailed to some kind of save-Apples-honor-by-making-sony-look-like-copycats!


I mean, this is Sony we're talking about. One of the most important electronic companies in the world. The technology they created... You will defintely find traces of their work in a MBP.
DVD Drive? Yeah, that is made by Sony and Toshiba. Apple are such tools.

If you look for it, you can convince yourself on about anything. They are both laptops in silver with black keys and a black frame! Don't really think I see anything in particular.

The Unibody is one shell. It's completely flat, and few edges, where the Z, is crooked downwards, with a cylinder design at the rear, featuring power button on the side, many more multimedia buttons on the top of the chassis, where the MBP is much more minimalistic.

Nah, I don't see it.

 

Of course the Vaio Z11 outperforms the 13" mbp (that's clearly a no brainer) but you cant compare a $2000 machine to a $1200 one (actually I got mine for $999), plain and simple. I know they both are 13" but they are clearly NOT in the same category. If you compare the 15" mbp to the 13" sony, that's more of a comparison and the sony does NOT outperforms the 15" mbp. They are pretty much the same in performance.

I know the 13" vaio z11 has the 1GB of VRAM as the 15" mbp but other than 3d modeling/rendering you wont notice much of a difference in that area as well. You can argue how great the 13" vaio Z11 is (and I agree it is a nice machine) BUT please stop this comparison to the 13" macbook pro as it is NOT in the same category let alone the same specs in the innards.

As for the side by side comparison even a F***ing 8 year old can tell that it looks very similar.

 

Again, if you decide to look for something you will find it. The poster above me, explained it perfectly well too. Flat versus curved designed, and the color palette. Again, you keep bringing it up. You said it didn't matter?



Actually the 330m in the Vaio Z is downclocked by 22% by default, to give more battery life.

I also disagree that a MBP 15'' and a Vaio Z, is more of a comparison than a MPB 13'' and a Vaio Z.

The latter are defintely in the same category, as premium Laptops whose main strengths are Mobility and Power. They are both about that. Both boost powerful components, and impressive battery life, and high quality displays.

That one is priced lower, is another thing. The configs of SSD or not, and all that throws away the price up and down in both machines cases. I will defintely say that they are not as far apart as you make them out to be. The only difference is that Apple skimmed out of the 13 MPB'' GPU in the latest refresh, and you can clearly see the backslash and dissapointing of that! No need to cover around the bush about that.


the 15'' is not very mobile, and is a notebook, not a ultraportable! That is a different category per definition I would say!

 

Well it depends on whats "mobile" to you or not. I've owned the 13" macbook pro before and carried it around campus for 7+ hours daily and I've done this with a 15" and a 17" macbook pro.

The 17" macbook pro is definitely heavy and can be felt but I couldnt really see the difference between the 13" and 15" at all honestly. 1.1 lbs (13" mbp vs. 15" mbp) or 2.2/2.3lbs (15" macbook pro vs. 13" sony vaio z11) isnt that big of a difference to me. If anything the 17" macbook pro's weight wasnt my primary concern, its more of the dimensions I couldnt stand whenever I wanted to take my 17" out to use to do something quickly.

Clearly Apple hasnt put the same specs on the 13" as the 15" and 17" versions to differentiate them with the price. If the 13" had the same specs as the 15" models with the pricing being the same on the 13" or a little higher than what its price at right now, it wouldnt be smart for Apple or if it were any other company in their shoes.

IMO the 13" hasnt been skimped out of anything, I got mine for $999 while not even being able to tell that much of a difference in overall usage from a 17" i7 2.66GHz I just sold with the nvidia 330m GT. This nvidia 320m that is specially built by nvidia for Apple is superb. It scores a little lower than the previous generation 9600m GT dedicated nvidia card from the previous generation macbook pro with the penryn 2.4GHz for $999 imo is an awesome price.

Basically it has the power of the nvidia 9600m gt while getting 9 1/2 hours of continuous battery life (thats what I got after calibrating it).

I can understand if your doing 3d rendering or cpu rendering heavily on the go then the sony vaio z11 looks attractive as its highly portable with the same specs as the 15" mbp but its a portable machine and imo it is overkill for its size in the first place. Pretty much what I'm trying to say is that the 13" mbp will do most of what that sony vaio z can do while being 50% cheaper.

Honestly with the 320m I cannot tell much of a difference from the 330m, I'm sure playing games will tell a different story but using my 13" to play 12-20GB 1080p mkv files to my 52" sony bravia xbr6 or my epson ub8500 projector flawlessly (I took back the mac mini with the nvidia 9400m as it could not handle those big bluray files even under plex, fps was bad).

 

I see a day where if media distribution and its subsequent tools of deployment ( iphone, ipod, ipad) become the extremely dominant part of Apple's bottom line (and I mean extremely), they would potentially take the chance of offering OSX on non Apple hardware in a Windows'esque fashion of distribution and/or start certifying certain OEMs (Dell, HP, etc...) to make approved systems.

Unlike before when they tried to offer it on clones, the MacOS would nowhere be their bread and butter product so any loss of revenue while trying to gain much wider spread market share would be minimized by their overwhelmingly lucrative media market elsewhere.

 

i think the reason the mbp looks like other laptops is because it's minimalistic, it's a slab of aluminum with black chicklet keys and a screen with a black border, bound to have other laptops with similar characteristics

 

Close, yes. with some significant departures in a couple of key areas:

1. Battery life: The Z11 with an i7 maxes out battery life with light use at about 5.5 hours while the 15" MacBook Pro maxes out at 3.5 hours with the same light use. (The Z last 1.6 times longer)
2. Weight: The Z11 weighs 3.02 lbs with the standard battery. The Mac Book Pro 15" tips the scales at 5.6 lbs. (the Z weighs just over HALF (.53) as much as the MacBook.

Here is my source for the information:

MacBook: Apple MacBook Pro 15 review | Laptops | Reviews | PC Pro
Z11: Sony VAIO VPCZ11Z9E/B review / Sony VAIO Z Series review | Laptops | Reviews | PC Pro
Note the Benchmarks and Specifications tabs for the stats that I pulled.​

 

You have the battery life completely wrong. The 15" in real world usage even under the 330m with light usage will last 7-8 hours. On my 17" i7 2.66GHz macbook pro I got 12 hours of continuous usage (thats under the intel gpu) and about 9 hours still on the 330m.

The great thing about the 15" mbp (I had the last generation with the same battery technology and was getting 9-10 hours of battery life) is that you get significantly more battery compared to the 13" mbp yet a little less than the 17" mbp.

The best part of the macs last generation and this generation is the battery life. I'm on campus for 7-9 hours a day and I NEVER bring my charger with me as the mbp will easily last 8-10 hours (12 on my 17" i7). IMO there is no other laptop out there that can last as long as the mbps. Well not an opinion, it is a FACT.

Even on my current 13" mbp with the 320m, I'm getting 9 and a half hours of battery life. Although the first day I drained the battery completely it lasted 8 hours and 43 minutes but yesterday I got 9 hours and 25 minutes. Now thats impressive.

 

See my updated post with my source listed; Sorry, I forgot to include it initially. They aren't my results, but were tested by professionals who do this for a living. Also keep in mind that these tests were performed by the same company with the same tests for each. This means that, even if they don't represent actual useage, the do represent an accurate comparison.

 

I've owned all three macbook pros and tested them rigorously everyday for a year. I have proof enough for myself and real world usages rather than some bloggers online.

I've seen many reviewers or so called testers and compared it to myself in real world usage and it always never matches up.

 

I would take that battery test with a grain of salt given they aren't too clear about their methodology and it looks like they were running Windows for at least part of the test which would mean the 330M is running the whole time while the Z11 would still be able to run on the HD graphics if left in auto or stamina modes. Almost 1/2 of the 15" MBP is battery so that kind of a battery result is surprising unless its run in Windows.

Different color Z11...still think it looks like a MBP?

Apple doesn't exactly own the raw aluminum finish given its been around forever so you really can't claim someone stole their design trademark.

 

EWW! Those ugly stickers are back. I'm sorry but I still don't see them as similar in looks.

 

hey! i actually like those stickers!

 

Ultraportable is wildly considered a different category from others, based on their footprint. I don't understand how you can argue with this.

It's fine if you think a 17 is mobile, or whatever. But you could do the same thing by ducttaping a generator to your back, a desktop to your belly and a 24'' monitor to your head, and say it doesn't bother you.
Vaio Z and MBP 15'' Are literally in different classes.


Why would they be priced the same with the same components? More likely, you have people who need different screen sizes for different reasons, and powerful components increases costs in smaller chasiss. There has already been reports of heating issues with the MBP, so I think the real reason why there is not an i7 and a 330m in the MBP 13'' Is due to just that.. heat.
Since it's all upgrades, and what you want, I don't think it would steal a segment from the others.

Why is it overkill? Performance is performance! The fact that it's so portable is the entire point of having a laptop. It's a portable computer. The Vaio Z has to be one of the most ideal laptops you can get, because there is nothing so light/slim in sucha small form factor that packs that much power.

As for the MPB 13'' Doing what the Vaio Z will do for 50% less, is exactly the same thing you could say about a MPB 13'' and a twice as cheap laptop with comparable specs.

In both situations, price is judged and increased due to build quality, quality of components and just overall design. The Vaio Z has a very high quality display, it's made from carbon fiber. It weighs much less.

If you want to argue share performance : price, then MBP are not the best example. Lots of their value lies in design as well. you pay a premium price for good design. The same thing with Vaio Z. Vaio Z is just in a class of it's own.

Also from what I can see on notebookcheck, the difference between 320 and 330 looks pretty big. Both in gaming and editing.

 

Once again, you're missing my point. Regardless of the methodology, if they did the same tests for both machines (and maybe they didn't) then regardless of the validity of the tests, the results would still provide a good point of comparison between the 2 machines. True, not a measure of real-world battery life, but a relative measure of how which can be expected to last longer.

As for real-world experience, I've put my Z11 in Stamina mode and have run it all day (8 or so hours) with the WiFi radio on.

 

We all know that so long as its an Apple, its weight is the spec'd weight subtract 80%. As evidenced by this dude I saw at my local Starbucks. Stalking random girls on FB never looked so crisp. A guy came up and complimented the guy on the screen quality and he got kind of annoyed. I can understand the screen real estate and free wifi in a pinch but take a look and you'll see he has 2 external drives attached and commandeered all the plugs in the area.

Edit: forgot to mention he was there like 3-4 days in a row like this. That's a lot of starbucks I know but its at the foot of my condo and I used to work from home.

 

People pay premium for different reasons. For me, I pay a premium on the macbook pro 13" compared to say HP notebooks that can be had for $300-$400 cheaper because the Apple notebook has the much better quality in screen, unibody enclosure (aluminum), multitouch trackpad that works better than even $5000 PCs and finally superior software (OSX) and amazing battery life (9 and a half hours of real world usage).

Basically I pay the slight premium for OSX that dramatically increases my workflow due to the multitouch trackpad and oh and pretty much virtually NO VIRUSES. I know where this debate can head but I'm going to say that 99% of mac users will never see a trojan or virus in their lifetime.

A good example is that I bought a samsung N150 just a few weeks ago (I love this netbook) and on the 2nd week my avg virus scanner already picked up 4 infected files and I had to contain them.. God I hate that!

 

This thread has now moved beyond the absurd.

 

Wow, that is crazy he is in there with that. I might as well lug my desktop in next time.

 

you mean not everyone lugs around their desktops to starbucks? I'm always so busy looking at my own I never look to see what others have...

 

Closing curtains. Dimming lights...