2012 MacBook Air

Well, I'm about to buy a new laptop and I wanna hear yer thoughts.

I've been considering an Apple since their machines are very well built, even though they don't come with the very best hardware. Thus, muy question is if it would be a good idea to get a MBA 13" now, considering its upgradeability is 0? I bare have the money to get it, but if I do, I expect it to last 3 years at least.

 

what are you planning on doing on it?

 

they are built well, have used a 2010 mba 11 in the office its quite good.

And why you mean they dont come with the very best hardware? ultrabooks are all the same, what differs is the screen, build quality and some have gpus and the upgradeability in some areas

 

Well, I do a bit of music production (you just can't imagine how slow is to run ANY music production software on a P4/DDR1 RAM ._.) besides some light gaming (I know the Mac aren't for gaming, but I'm not the "OMG-60FPS-ULTRARES" kind of guy). Add the average college usage and that's it. What concerns me the most is how long this thingy mat last - as I stated above, I expect at least 3 years of use.

"To don't get the very best" means I know they are a tad overpriced for what you get ._.

 

the hp dv6 aint made for gaming, but it still does it.

try to look for the thinkpad x230

 

The MBA should be fine with light gaming. I play Portal on mine all the time without issues, same with Half-Life 2. They aren't the most recent games but they work at the native resolution and play smoothly.

Actually, the MBA Apple's only competitively priced notebook currently on the market. Other ultrabooks with the same specs are either only $50 less, cost the same, or actually cost more. For whatever reason, the entry level 13" MBA is competitively priced with others. The MBPs are overpriced compared with the competition but the MBAs aren't really.

The only thing you may want to think about is upgrading the RAM to 8GB. I believe it is $100. You can't upgrade it yourself so that would be about the only thing you might want to splurge a little on. If the new MBA is anything like the 2010 and 2011 models, you will be able to upgrade the SSD yourself down the line without voiding Apple's warranty.

Either way, you shouldn't have any issues getting a solid 3-4 years of use out of a MBA. I have had mine for 6 months now and it has held up much better than my other, non-Apple notebooks at this point as I take it with me to school (which I won't be doing anymore since I am done with classes) and work every single day. The hardware inside the baseline 13" MBA will be much faster than what you are currently running and should be supported by Apple for a while.

Just know that you should buy a Mac only if you plan on running OS X the majority of the time. Do not buy it to run Windows.

 

Everything Kornchild said, especially the last part about running Mac OS primarily. Running Windows via Bootcamp totally sucks, namely keyboard mapping and the horrible touchpad in Windows. Running Windows in VM though works very well.

My only concern might be the limited storage since the OP works with music, depending on how much music files he needs stored locally without resorting to external storage. If the OP is used to running a P4 with 1GB of RAM, the base Air config with 4GB will do fine. Going with the Air will be easily a 20x increase in performance compared to a P4

 

Is there any downside to VM-ware? Had does MS Office run?

 

virtual machines use up more system resources since everything is running at once, and run a tad slower than Windows would by itself... this may or may not be noticeable depending on what your running, Office runs pretty smooth in Parallels 7 (haven't tried it in VMWare). Your main problem in a virtual machine comes down to graphics capability, with games or anything else that does 3D rendering, which will be much slower and less capable than running Windows directly on the actual machine (aka using Bootcamp to install and boot into just Windows)

 

Thanks. I use my machines hard and rip through quality-built Lenovos in about a year; so I need better build quality and Im looking at Apple a/One on one.

But I need windows for image-intense powerpoints and also many meg excel files and access.

I'll be fine with Apple's contacts/calendar/photos and web browsing.

Could Parallels or VMWare work for me on a MacBook air 11"?

 

if you kill a business class thinkpad in a year, MBA will give you 4-6 mos im afraid.
Ive killed 3 13" MBA's with less abuse in the time ive had my x220

 

There is no MS Access for Mac, but normally MS Excel and MS Powerpoint 2011 for Mac works just fine... if you want to do the VM route I'd suggest making sure you have 8GB of ram. When Windows is running you can throw 3.5gb at Windows and 4 left for OSX, and 0.5 for the graphics.

If your going to use Windows apps heavily (most of your apps most of the time), your going to end up getting disappointed unless you just get rid of OSX altogether and just run Windows.

 

Software does not worry me, I'm used to LibreOffice, Firefox and the whole free software thing haha (less resource-heavy than MS standards) I hope we get the option down here to increase the RAM and not having to buy one of a couple of choices - be that the i5 - 4GB or a i7 - 8GB, I don't have that much money.

About gaming, I can run Portal with no issues on my desktop (Pentium 4 2,52, 1,5 GB RAM DDR333, Geforce 6200 512MB DDR2 AGPx4) I keep my machines tuned.

Thanks for your advice

 

When people say the touchpad is bad in Windows, it makes me

Lets put it this way:

Apple Touchpad in OS X > Apple Touchpad in Windows > Most Windows Laptop Toucpads.

It's not bad in Windows, just not as good as in OS X.

 

It's TERRIBLE, worse than even the tiny ALPS on the Latitudes Why? Because the Mac touchpad is OVERLY sensitive in Windows, that split second delay is not there when you click something. There's no back/forward gesture. Running Windows in a VM on the other hand, the touchpad works as nicely as it does in OSX.

Apple Touchpad in OS X = Apple touchpad in Windows via VM >>>>> ALL Windows Laptop Toucpads >>> Apple Touchpad in Windows

 

I've used so many MacBooks. From the 2006 Pro 15 to the 2011 Pro 15, and most model in between. I've always enjoyed the touchpad performance in Windows.

Do you currently have a MacBook running Windows? If not, when was the last time you did?

 

When I first bought the 13" Air August last year. Prior to that on different versions of the 13" Pro.

When I said overly sensitive, this is what happens all too often - try to drag something, it opens it instead, or worse gets inadvertently moved to another folder when I'm organizing stuff; drag a window it'll maximize it instead. It really drove me nuts. Versions after versions of bootcamp drivers update, it was the same way. I know this happens because I don't press on the touchpad button, I always do double-tap to drag, no such problems on even the crappiest Alps touchpad.

 

False.

True.

 

I still say that they are equally terrible, the touchpad in windows and the average windows trackpad.

I remember that the vaio Z2 and the SA where equally dreadful, gladly i use my trusty microsoft c9 mouse. no blabbing about dpi numbers and plethora of buttons.

 

Offering another data point...

My experience so far matches Mr. Mischief. The only behavior that took any time getting used to was right clicking via two fingers, because it won't register as a two-finger click near the edges of the trackpad. Aside from that, it's all good. It's smoother, more responsive, and more accurate than the VAIOs, Thinkpads, and Elitebooks I've had at home or work.

Of course, it's better in OS X. There's the OS X gestures, obviously. But the two-finger right click is also less location sensitive in OS X and there's some momentum in the scrolling.

Installing Trackpad++ supposedly improves the experience in Boot Camp, if you can tolerate installing adware.

 

The trackpad in Windows is pretty awful. That is one of the reasons why I uninstalled my boot camp partition and went with a virtual machine instead. There is a third party driver for the trackpad in Windows but it still didn't provide the same fluid motion as OS X and not all of the gestures worked either. The gestures that were supposed to work would often not register, scrolling still wasn't the same, etc. It improved things somewhat but not completely.

I still think that the MBP/MBA trackpad in Windows is a better experience than most other notebooks mainly because of its size and glass surface. It is a whole lot better than the Alienware M14X a friend of mine uses while constantly insisting its a better trackpad than my MBA (he curiously hasn't tried my MBA in OS X though).

Compared to OS X, the trackpad in Windows is a pretty bad experience so I can understand why people point it out. It isn't unusable but it represents a stark contrast between two OS experiences.

 

How can a personal opinion be "false"?


Sent from my HTC One S

 

all these people that say the touchpad is horrible in windows i often wonder if they even used it. I boot to windows all the time and the mac touchpad in windows is still the best trackpad you will ever use on a pc. it may not have all the bells and whistles but its still a good trackpad. I would take a mac trackpad in windows over a craptastic plastic trackpad any day

 

No, we are all just blowing smoke out of our butts to make ourselves feel better.

I cannot speak for everyone but I can assure you that my statements come from personal experience. Now things are a little different since I use Parallels and that is able to mimmic most Apple gestures in Windows providing the best Apple trackpad experience in Windows I have come across. Apple's default drivers really do limit the trackpad and make it way too sensitive.

 

I was going to write up a relatively long explanation, but I think the answer is already available on the internet.

Read these to understand:

Fact, Opinion, False Claim, or Untested Claim

NotArrogant.com - Your Opinion is Wrong!

I've used windows on the 2010 MBA, 2011 MBA, 2010 MBP, and 2007 (old style) MBP. All of them shared the same (poor) trackpad behavior in windows. They were all worse than any windows trackpad I've ever been exposed to, particularly in regards to their erratic sensitivity when moving the mouse, and particularly when scrolling (two fingers).

 

apple.com is still selling the '11 MBA, correct? They're not too forthcoming about what-is-what unless Im missing something.

Will they not do pre-sells on the '12?

 

really....?

Sure people can have "opinions" that are wrong, when they are based around facts that are wrong, but how useful a touchpad is is completely subjective, so it cannot be wrong.

 

1. Logic. If I walk outside and say it feels cold, and you walk outside and say it's hot, who is right? Obviously, both of us are right. Opinions are subjective, and can't be wrong. You can't tell me I'm wrong for feeling cold, nor can I say you're wrong for feeling hot.

2. Wow, you've had 4 Macbooks to test with Windows. I've had at least 20, if not 30 Macbooks. From models 2006 to 2011.

You feel the trackpads are subpar in Windows, I feel they work just fine. I've also had about 5 times that many Windows laptops, so I definitely have systems to compare with.

With more examples and logic on my side, I must ask you to please stop making a fool of yourself. Hop off that high horse.

 

I hesitate to walk into this discussion, but my very expensive Vaio Z2 exhibits the trackpad problems that people are reporting when using macbooks under Windows. Mine is only usable by running a utility called TouchFreeze which disables the touchpad while typing. This is a rather brute-force solution to the palm-touch problem.

It may be that those of us on the Windows side have rather low expectations. It might also be that TouchFreeze would help those having problems with the touchpad under Windows.

 

1. If you say "it feels cold out here" and I say "it feels hot out here" - then this is precisely the type of opinion which is NOT ever incorrect. You are just stating a perception that you have, that only needs to be true for you for it to be valid. The only way you could be wrong was if you actually felt as though it was hot and you still decided to say "it feels cold". Otherwise, what you are saying is not up for contest, because you framed your statement in such a way that it only needs to apply to you to be true. If you want, I can give you examples that better fit the other category, but I'd rather just refer you back to the article. If it's 105 degrees outside and we need to make an assessment about whether or not it's hot outside (we are the weather crew for a news team), it's still technically a matter of opinion. But now- whether or not it feels hot to you or not is much less relevant, because we aren't trying to make an assessment of how you feel, but rather the state of something which is not you. Considered another way, imagine that you have a neurological disease that gives you the constant perception of "coldness", and it's 105 degrees outside. If I ask you if you feel hot, what do you say? If I feel differently, should we argue? If I ask you if it's hot outside and you have a temperature sensor, and you say it's cold, should we argue?

2. The trackpad has the same failures in windows on all of the laptops apple makes. The behavior is consistent across models. It doesn't matter how many you've owned, I have more than enough experience to make the proper judgement. Are you really prepared to stand behind the statement that the other models had different performance to the 4 I cited? That's going to come back to bite you. Besides, there's no method of evaluating your claim. I might as well tell you that I am more of an expert than you, because I actually tested 40 different models. And I'm a Harvard graduate. And I work for Apple and wrote the windows trackpad driver. Instead of making the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority, we'll have to work with within the context of the evidence that is available. And no, the logic is not on your side.

3. I feel the trackpads in windows are subpar because they are hypersensitive, which causes erratic input constantly, particularly when scrolling. This is the factual basis of my claim. If you believe that fact is false, then we can agree to disagree. Anyone can test this for themselves, or do research outside of this thread. If you accept the fact as true, then it should be extraordinarily difficult to maintain the opinion that you have. If you've somehow managed to combine the idea that the trackpad is hypersensitive, nearly unusable, and is also fine, then congratulations, you win.

 

Totally agree. I'm currently running windows on my MBA 2011 and the trackpad is virtually as good as in Mac OS. But I still prefer trackpoint/pointstick over any trackpad, hehe

 

@masterchef341:
Could you elaborate a bit on the hypersensitivity? Is it in terms of registering clicks or movement, or both? I am curious about this because I usually set my input device to be as sensitive as possible - and if the trackpad is only very fast, this might be no problem for me at all.
Also, do you know if this one third-party driver corrects your trackpad problems?

 

clicks (if tap to click is enabled - if you limit yourself to clicking the trackpad, you should be okay with clicks), scrolling, unable to disable input while typing, you end up with lots of unexpected behavior if you graze the trackpad while typing.

it may be fixable with 3rd party drivers, i have no idea, and i don't know which driver you are talking about, "this one" doesn't mean anything to me.

 

Thanks for the answer.

Also sorry for not being more specific. I thought that driver was well known, since I read about it in this forum previously. It is called Trackpad++, and from the description it sounds as if it fixes most of the problems. But then, you have either to pay extra for it or have some other annoyances.

 

Cool story bro, but I don't have a disease that makes me like an Apple trackpad in Windows. Your claim that my opinion is false is equally applicable to your statement. Please explain why your opinion it "true" and mine is "false". I've had more Macbooks and Windows laptops to test touchpads.

I don't think that your 4 Macbooks perform any different then mine. Touchpad performance is subjective. There's also no method of evaluating your claim. Wait, so you stated that you had 4 Macbooks because you were trying to claim you had more experience. When you found out I had had more Macbooks, suddenly this becomes an appeal to authority? Additionally, you are misinterpreting the "appeal to authority" fallacy. I'm not saying simply because I've owned more Macbooks I'm right. I'm saying I've tested more, and the touchpads work great in Windows. Big difference.

False. I've never experienced hypersensitivity. Ever. This is the factual basis of my claim.

You made a lot of claims about how my arguments and experiences are false, but you fail to realize that the same arguments are applicable to you experiences. My opinion on trackpads remains the same. I have no motive to try to prove they work fine in Windows. I don't even own a Macbook.

Your only claim is that because YOU tested a few Macbooks on Windows, YOU are somehow correct. You are basing your entire argument on how YOU felt it works. That's called, get ready for it... OPINION.

 

If it's 110 degrees outside in Amsterdam, and in your opinion it is a cold day, then your opinion doesn't have any validity, because by all standards of what a cold day could possibly be, it does not fit the criteria. If you have some notion of what 'cold' is that does fit with 110 degree weather in Amsterdam, then your definition of cold is simply wrong. We could dispute the definition at that point if you want. The reality of the fact vs. opinion situation is that things we think of as being opinions are sometimes more fact than opinion. If you've experienced 200 days in Amsterdam and I've experienced a mere 50 days, and I still recognize that it's a hot day and not a cold day, well... I hope you get the picture. I'm getting tired of re-explaining this... Again, things which are purely opinion are not contestable, but they are also rare. You came up with a good example earlier about whether it feels hot or cold (to you) is a matter of your opinion. Other types of statements which we sometimes classify as opinions are not pure opinions, and they can be wrong, when the facts upon which the opinion is based are false. Hopefully, that's more than enough about that particular topic. If you have any more questions about fact vs. opinion, then just refer to the links. If you're still not satisfied and you really want to discuss it further, perhaps we can make an off-topic thread.

As far as why I originally said that I had used the thing in windows at all was because another poster was wondering out loud about it in the first place. I was just answering. I've been happy to inform people of the trackpad problems in windows for a long time without citing any type of elaborate experience. The fact that the issues exist is reason enough to inform people.

Now, if you disagree about the nature of the fact (whether it is true or false) then you should be able to see why we are having a disagreement where one of us is correct and the other is not. Either the trackpad has erratic and hypersensitive behavior, or it does not. Supposedly (hopefully), we can come to some agreement on what these described phenomenon are, and we can disagree as to whether or not they exist, which means that the crux of our argument is based on factual information and not opinion. I'm happy to defer to individual experience (buy it and test it, return it if you don't like it, Apple has a nice 14 day return policy), or defer to the body of information available on the internet.

I hope that's a pretty complete answer. If there's more we still need to work out, don't hesitate to say so, but let's help each other come to some type of resolution as promptly as possible. I don't want to labor over this any more than is necessary.

 

well thats pretty narrow vision there.... 110 degrees is much colder than 500 degrees.

 

Which, realistically speaking, will never be observed as an actual environmental temperature in human living environments. Either way, I think points have been made from both sides on the topic of Mac trackpad use in Windows.

Edit: OK guys, I deleted a little over two pages worth of posts going back and forth about the correctness of opinions. Let's call it a day and keep further comments on-topic. I know we can all get a little off-topic at times, I am guilty of it too. Still, the point of this thread was not about the discussion of the technicalities surrounding the definitions of "false" and "true" when used to describe personal opinions. Feel free to keep your discussion going in an off-topic section or through PM's.

 

I wonder when did this thread became one about Propositional Logic and Clickpads ._.