Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel) - what gives?

Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel)
Contrast ratio (typical) - 700:1
Response time (typical) - 16 ms

I LOVE the look of this monitor, but the contrast ratio and response time are not even in the same ballpark with competitor monitors. Of course, they are not in the same ballpark with the Cinema HD on aesthetics. But, assuming I need both, what gives with these lackluster specs?

Is there a competitive display that doesn't look like it was built out of recycled legos?

Thanks in advance,
Matthew

 

Depends...

The Apple display is not a consumer display. It is a professional display and can actually display the 16 million colors unlike all the other cheaper monitors. There are some other monitors out there that will compare... iiyama (however its spelled) is one thats big in the pro field, but stats will be roughly the same as well as price.

BTW, you have to remember that contrast and response are just marketing tools. A lot of companies play with ways of measuring those to get better values. Like response rate, some measure from gray to black to gray instead of white to black to white, or just go from black to white. Gets messy...

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, hollownail. I don't really need a professional grade monitor that can be color-calibrated and such. However, I do still like the Cinema HD. I'm not made of money, but what's a couple bills for something you are going to look at every day for years?

I can see the contrast ratio must be a bogus comparison because the colors are supposed to be better on the Cinema HD than the mass consumer monitors. Deeper blacks and brighter colors, right?

I am a bit concerned with the repsonse time though. Do things like games or movies have any blurring effect on this monitor? 16 ms is more than 3 times slower than the dell ultrasharp, so I want to make sure I don't become the proverbial fool and his money.

 

16ms ≈ 60hz which is a standard speed. I do wonder how manufacturers rate there response times as well. I have a monitor that says its a 2ms response time, but in OS X it lists its refresh rate at 60hz. so... prolly manufacturer number magic.

 

Response rate and refresh are two different things. Most LCDs can support something like 75hz and some 120hz. I know 120 is what the newer HD tvs are trying to hit.

But lets say your running at 60hz... You have a program that is trying to alternate the color of a pixel between black and white every 1ms. It may take 20ms for it to actually change the color completely. It's a timing of the pixel itself to change from completely on and off back to on. Refresh is just how often the image is redrawn.

Or at least something like that.

 

Something else to note, all IPS panels have slower refresh rates than TN Panels.
This is partially due to the fact that TN panels display at thousands of colours with shading tricks, and IPS display at millions. I wouldn't worry about milliseconds much.

The contrast ratio is also a trick too, because when using actual measuring tests most monitors rated at higher ratios (2000,2500,3000:1) are actually in reality 700-900:1.

I've been looking for a deal on a 23" ACD, but the only ones cheap enough have the old pink tint issue on them when they first came out, but the new ones I've seen in the stores... I've only seen one monitor that was nicer (Eizo).

 

Yes, the Apple display is an IPS panel, which is a million times better than anything else out there. I had one and only didn't keep it because of a humming sound at less than full brightness. This is something that affects ALL Apple Cinema Displays. I had two that did it, and my university has about 20 of them and a 30" one as well, and they ALL hum at less than full brightness.

 

^Your brain is playing tricks on you, or you have been cursed with hearing that is beyond that of regular human beings ^_^.

I have never heard a hum from any Apple display.

 

I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree. Just because "you" didn't hear it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I had a fellow student put his ear to the back of the display at my university and he said the noise was quite audible at that point. Again, if you have a desktop system running or a fan running etc, you WON'T hear the noise. I have just my MacBook Pro in my office, so there's barely any sound except the hum from the Apple 23" at less than full brightness. Put your ear to the back right of the display, and you'll hear it with little trouble. I sit around 35 Apple displays at my uni, and I never noticed the sound because of all the Mac Pros running there. It's a different story in a silent room.

Again, I'm not bothered if you believe me or not. It exists. I'm not the only person who's noticed this issue, though I'm surprised more people don't...

Here's another person with keen ears. Look at the date. Almost a year ago. Problem still exists. Sad.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/129213-apple-cinema-display-hum.html

And another from TWO years ago!

http://forum.soft32.com/mac/Noisy-Hum-New23-Cinema-Display-ftopict34148.html

 

What is the pitch of this "hum", if it is a very high pitch then many people will have problems hearing it(your hearing ability deteriorates with age). Younger people(people near their teens) will probably have an easier time hearing this though. I believe you though. I have got to check it out for myself.

 

if you put your ear up to anything electronic you will hear a hum.

I promise you if you are looking for it you will probably here it in any display, as you apparently have.

it is not that I don't believe you that it exists, I just don't think it is actually an issue, at all, in terms of actually effecting usability.

have you ever put you ear up against a CRT or anything with a large TV Tube? that sound is probably enough to give you a tumor. The only thing anyone can say really is deal with it, it is a massive improvement over older style displays in terms of noise.

I am not intending to sound rude and I probably am, but I think you should just accept it if all these different displays you have tried have the same problem, because a large majority have and probably never will notice this hum/issue.

 

I have a Benq 24" which is rather nice IMO and fits very well with the Apple 'asthetic'

 

Wow, nice display!

 

I agree. that BENQ is very nice. What is that pen looking thing on your desk? LoL I feel like such a N00b

 

it's a Huey Pantone calibration doo-hickey...

 

I'm not trying to suggest that you HAVE to put your ear to the display to hear it. I AM saying, however, that this DOES affect my computer usage, and it's driving me nuts. I have a nice, quiet room, with no fans, and just my MacBook Pro. The reason I put my ear to the back of some Apple displays yesterday is because - as you said - I wouldn't hear the sound otherwise, since the room was full of Mac Pros. But I then knew I'd hear the sound at home (which I did). I sit at a normal distance from my screen at home and the hum is noticeable. Very noticeable.

FYI, I just received a different display today: A Planar PX2611W, and its buzz at less than full brightness is distracting beyond even the Apple display. I can't win!

 

I read somewhere that ~50% of people need sound (music) when they work, while the other 50% need silence. I need music, lucky me... thus my ipod cuts out any annoying noises. My work mate needs silence, she has a pair of industrial ear protectors to cut out everything....that is no joke she really does... she sits at her desk typing away on her mac, happy as larry.
Maybe thats what you need WillamG!
a

 

Apple needs to be CUTTING edge when it comes to monitors...16ms is hardly cutting edge.

HOWEVER..thats still one PRETTY display. I guess if you dont game its ok?

I really want that 30 incher myself. Would it be silly to get the 30?

 

thecommish, I just had to take back anything else I bought, and I kept the Apple display. It's by far the nicest panel I've ever owned, and I've owned a TON of displays. Let me list for you:

24" Samsung 245BW
22" Samsung 226
24" LG 246P
26" Planar P2611W
24" Dell 2408WFP

Again, this Apple is BY FAR the best display out of all them. It uses an IPS panel, which piddles all over the other panels out there (all the cheap ones you see at Best Buy are TN panels, which offer weak viewing angles and poor color reproduction). Then there are a few MVA panels out there (the Dell above and also the LG), but again - not in the same league as the IPS.

Aesthetically, there's nothing more pleasing. The aluminum goes so, so well with the MacBook Pro, and the way it integrates is a joy. I have the bottom left of my screen set to turn off both displays. So, I move my mouse to the bottom left of my display, and both displays go to sleep. You don't even need to hit the power button the Cinema Display! And when you wake it up, it's INSTANT on. No waiting a few seconds for it to light up. It's just on. It really is fantastic, and I've gone back to it because of what a joy it is. I had never really thought of the aesthetics of a monitor as a factor in buying it, but now I've had this display, looking at black plastics make me balk...

You won't regret this display, and there's a reason why it's expensive. Those IPS panels are NOT CHEAP. The Planar I mentioned above uses a similar IPS panel, and is about $900. See what I'm saying? I also like the 2 USB ports and 2 firewire ports on the Cinema Display.

Again, you won't regret getting it. It's borderline art.

Oh, and about the 30". I've used one extensively at my university. I honestly find it too big. I get a little neck strain when looking around it. It really is MILES bigger than the 23". Now, I actually found the 26" Planar a little too big, too. Somehow those few inches in a display make all the difference.

Anyway, very subjective, but the 23" is a very nice compromise.

 

Thanks for the insight. I like the 30 but I agree....it's so insanely big I have very hard time justifying the price...I love the compatibility with everything being Apple...ARe there NEW cinemas due soon? Or can I buy the 23 without regret? I need to look at the student discount and see where it comes in.

I'm really going nuts with all this Apple stuff, the Apple store is too much fun!

If I DO get the 23 incher, what kind of cables do I have to buy? Does it COME with DVI cable? Whats the story? Is it REALLY 799 or is it 799 plus this and that?

 

The Apple Cinema Displays come with a DVI Display Connector, yes .

 

Sam stop encouraging me...you are supposed to say "no they dont, dont buy it commish"

 

Too late...take a look at your forum sig . I think that Dell XPS will be off the sig soon, and I don't know, replaced with an Apple Cinema Display?

 

haha....the 30 inch is 1599 with student discount...hmmmm

Can I run the XPS into the Cinema as well? Are there enough ports?

for the 23 I'd need 1 DVI for MBPRO and 1 DVI for XPS....that would work right?

 

a bit off topic here

does that huey "pen" thing actually give you better colors on your screen according to their website?

 

The colors are amazing on macbook pro.

 

are you using the huey?

 

For me by far the biggest disappointment with the Apple Cinema Displays is the fact that they are not HDCP compliant.

My Macbook Pro has a HDCP compliant Nvidia 8600GT, I have an HDCP compliant player but cannot use the ACD to display HD content.. thats just lousy....


It's definitely time for Apple to update them...

 

Ahh good point...

Sayin I should wait?

 

i don't know if I would call it 'better' colours. You calibrate to get consistent and more accurate colour reproduction across monitors. If you do a lot of photo manipulation or equivalent work, it is worth calibrating

I like the huey, very easy to use

 

Yeah I need to get a calibration tool. The Apple display is very white, and my MBP screen is more yellowy (by comparison). The colors are very different between the two. Can't decide what screen calibration tool to get...

 

Yeah, I need one of those too. I can get decent colors on my macbook pro display, but not on an external one. Whites aren't really white

But its hard justifying the cost of a decent calibrator when you don't do a lot of photo manipulation.

 

They're not that expensive, really. That Huey is only $90 from Amazon. I ordered one today, so hopefully I can get my Apple display and MacBook Pro display fairly similar.

 

Also, bear in mind that Apple Cinema response times are rated from black to white, NOT grey to grey as MOST manufacturer's, which I have to credit Apple for doing. For comparison purposes, the Dell 2707WFP is rated at 6ms grey to grey, so you think woohoo! But that screen is also rated 16ms black to white, exactly the same as the Apple 23". I'm not sure what the grey to grey on the Apple is, but I'm guessing 6ms or thereabouts. So be careful with those stats that make the Apple seem outdated, when really it isn't.

http://www.barefeats.com/lcd07.html

 

can you please give us a review or a video or before and after photos please william? It would be really helpful!

 

yeah that would be great for me too.

 

Before and after the color calibration? Sure thing! I'll have the Huey on Wednesday during the day, so by the evening I should stick something up, along with a review of the 17" LED 1920x1200 new MacBook Pro. It's review week!

 

im going to apple store saturday so....

 

Hey guys. Working on a quick Huey review. Review will be up shortly..

 

Does anybody know who's the supplier of the cinema hd displays?

LG, Samsung, some Taiwanese co.?

 

LG, unless they've changed things recently. They have used LG products for displays for a long time though.

 

Yep it's LG Philips.

 

cool. Thanks for the information

one question though, if LG makes the cinema display for apple, then wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy the LG versions? or are those specially made for apple?

 

Probably cheaper, RD, but if you like the look of the ACD, you've got to get the real deal. LOL

You can hook up PC's to the ACDs. My own 23" monitor is hooked to an eMachines desktop. The 30" requires dual-link DVI.

 

I've heard you need high end video cards for the 23 and 30 inch cinema displays?

 

Well, as I just said, my eMachines desktop is connected to a 23" ACD and it works fine.

You'll need dual-link for the 30" but not necessarily an expensive card. My MacPro only has an GeForce 7300GT and works fine with the 30" ACD.

 

the 8600 GT 256 runs the 30 without an issue

 

So the question is, does LG make better display for Apple than what they sell under their own name? Apples are too expensive and none of them seem to have better then 16ms response time. Very strange.

 

That 16ms response time is not what it looks like. Read my post above!

"Also, bear in mind that Apple Cinema response times are rated from black to white, NOT grey to grey as MOST manufacturers', which I have to credit Apple for doing. For comparison purposes, the Dell 2707WFP is rated at 6ms grey to grey, so you think woohoo! But that screen is also rated 16ms black to white, exactly the same as the Apple 23". I'm not sure what the grey to grey on the Apple is, but I'm guessing 6ms or thereabouts. So be careful with those stats that make the Apple seem outdated, when really it isn't."