Apple is scared - MBP design flaw

Come on now, that doesn't make any sense. If you didn't buy the computer you wouldn't have a chance to sue anyone.

 

just a side note: if you go out and actively seek acquaintances who have the specific problem and get them to come and vote on the poll, you will skew the results of the poll.

ie. you and your 4 friends make a total of 5 votes and heavily skew the poll. its just simple pollingonomics.

 

Ha ha, I bought it just because T61p does not have screen with 1680x1050 (1920x1280 is overkill for me) and HP 8510p was scheduled for September release. And there are no any other notebooks in my opinion that could be in the same league (higher res screen, 8600GT or HD2600 video, thin/light).
Also I forgot about my friends problems, cause last time I have seen one was last year. When you want/need a laptop you do not think much about the problems, but once you get it - then it is more obvious. For example if I would have realized how hot MBP gets I would definitely would not buy one (and I already regret that I got one after 8510p got on HP shopping site).

 

Also - I supposedly bought NEW MBP model (Santa Rosa) - so one would expect improvements...

 

If you would check vote results - you would see that I did not vote that I have damage, and as I said before - my friends did not vote here either. So the results that you see are nothing to do with me or the people I know. I do not have any reasons to skew results...It would be simple stupidity "masterchef"...As a Notebook Deity you should be smarter than that

 

Well that answers my question....I will get a protector that covers the entire screen.

 

Alenas, are you a troll or just pretending to be one?


My first choice of a laptop was the T61p. Alas, they aren't exactly readily available. So, I went ahead and got a 15" 2.4 MBP with the student discount.

Thats said, I'm very happy with the MBP. Yes, it has flaws, but so does any laptop.

Your main complaints seem to be the so called design flaw that allows the screen to touch the keys, and the cooling. I'll address both of these.

As I pointed out before, your so called design flaw is a problem common to many makes and models of laptops. To cite some evidence this here are a few threads for you to check out...

http://zurich.ai.mit.edu/hypermail/thinkpad/2003-05/0235.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=152041
http://www.lsctech.com/misc/LCD_protector.htm
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=150412
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=2155978&postcount=8

Sure, it sucks, but the fix is simple. Get a micro-fiber keyboard/screen cover like shaggymac and lappymat make. Its simple, effective, and it means you always have a micro-fiber cloth handy for screen cleaning.

Your complaint on cooling is valid. The MBP can get very hot if your pushing the cpu/gpu. However, I think this complaint is often rather exagerated. Any laptop of this form factor, with this level of performance, is going to get hot. Furthermore, the cooling design used by apple has its advantages. Find another laptop than can be used on a bed or blanket without negatively affecting the cooling. The MBP is rather unique in this regard since it has no air intakes on the bottom of the system.

If your so unhappy with your MBP, sell it and get something else instead of trolling forums.

 

I know I've said this in my previous post, but I'm very happy with the protector I got from shaggymac. Check them out.

 

The screen is not too recessed from the bezel. That is why the screen touches the keyboard when closed.

 

To KELCHM:
Point is that all my previous laptops did not have this problem. For example thinkpad has keyboard about 3 milimeters away from the screen (of course if you will push on the screen hard enought - it will touch it).
My last notebook HP nc8430 - it cost less, never had to use screen protector, though I travel a lot, could have it on my lap or in my bed without any problems or heat issues. Do you want to say that nc8430 is not comparable in performance or lightness. It is in the same class in my book.
So noone is trolling forums. It is just a fact that MBP has these issues - if it is hard to admit - then wash your head in the toilet to cool down

 

When did I deny the fact that the screen of the MBP can get scratched by the keyboard?

I didn't.

It can, and it WILL if you are carrying it in such a way that it gets smashed.

My point was that many laptops are vulnerable to the same kind of damage, and it is moronic to suggest that this is really a design flaw.


I also never said that you CAN'T use laptops that use bottom mounted intake fans on a bed/blanket. What I DID say is that their cooling abilities will be hindered as the intakes are partially blocked.

 

It is moronic to say that it is not design flaw.
If it would not be a design flaw - then for this kind of damage Apple and other manufacturers would not be replacing screens for free.
It is obvious that it is design flaw if device is not able to whitstand normal usage conditions (and carrying a laptop in a bag is normal usage).
To get screen damage - you would need to smash thinkpad, but you just need to carry MBP without any force or smashing....

 

Well, here is a simple conclusion without all the necessary argument: The problem does exist regardless of whether or not it is a design flaw.

So does anyone have any suggestions for some screen protectors that are cheap/efficient?

 

So you have 3 friends with MBPs that all display this "design flaw" and you still paid 2500 for one for yourself?

 

4 friends with damaged screens - all of MBP's are with the design flaw
Paid $1850 with free printer. Are you jealous?

 

I agree that skewing the poll results would "be simple stupidity" (I have never heard that phrase before - "simply be stupidity" is probably better english, for the future). That is why I warned against it.

And I have no way of knowing your relationship to those who vote yes or no on the poll.

As a Breathing Human Being, you should have been able to figure that out.

 

I hate to sound stupid, but do those actually protect the screen?

 

My guess would be that they just minimize the flex on the back of the LCD lid to prevent the screen from touching the keys/trackpad.

Best bet is just to get that piece of cloth from ShaggyMac that you lay between your Macbook Pro before closing it. Plus, you can use it to wipe your screen off when it gets dirty.

 

I wouldn't order those cases because of the scratching on the notebook. There are other hard cases out there which don't...

But the reasoning behind it is that the damage to the screen comes when pressure is placed on the outside, making the screen hit the keyboard. If you have a hard case on, the outside of the notebook doesn't flex, so you don't get any damage.

 

I thought it only scratched it if you take it on and off? I have one of those hard cases on my MBP, and I haven't seen any damage.

 

I think they do a good enough job if you won't travel with it much. If you use it for work or a ton of carrying around, I would get the small spacers on radtech.us . In my case my Work laptop is the one that takes the abuse.

 

Let's try to keep the posts to the topic and stay away from attacks and allegations. So far things seem civil so please keep it that way.

It seems that at least a few people are experiencing this issue, so does anyone have anymore suggestions besides getting a ShaggyMac insert? Has anyone tried contacting AppleCare about the problem? If they are unwilling to do anything, why not try getting a hold of customer relations?

 

I'm not going to divert this thread any more off topic, but for anyone overly concerned at the poll results, I want to point out that among the members who voted that they did have a problem with the MacBook Pro, they did not list that they owned one on their signature; they did however list other laptops, such as Thinkpads and an Alienware and a Dell.

I am not saying that they definitely don't have a MacBook Pro, but it doesn't look like it, and that may be a inconsistency in the poll results (the fact that they didn't even have one).

 

They could have had one and sold it or something. Anyhow... if you are a smart shopper you will hit these forums, be informed and evaluate your risk depending on your need. I won't travel a ton and don't mind a protector. So in my case, I am ok. If I did travel more I would buy the spacers and what not. If I was EXTREME, I would have a toughbook.

For whatever reason Apple decided to not have spacers or what not, be it design, aesthetics, or stupidity. Thanks for bringing this to our attention and hopefully new owners like myself can avoid having their laptop's damaged.

 

This is interesting. My macbook does have a mark in the screen from the spacebar. It's not damaged, but it does touch enough to leave the oil from the keyboard in a line on the screen.

 

i really wonder why apple wont fix this, they tend to concentrate too much on thinning their notebook. i rather have a slightly thicker notebook than having one with screen damage! and with every newer mac comes with thinner and thinner shell things will only get worse. newer apple product seems to be hotter than usual too. then technology catch up... it begins to be cooler again, then they reduce the thickness again, then it overheats again.. the endless cycle..

 

I'm curious, which hard shells don't scratch the MBP? I like the idea of a protective hard case like that for a laptop (much like I prefer the hard cases for iPods rather than soft ones) but was put off by the idea when I read on the forums here that they tend to leave scratches.

 

No kind of amazed that you would still purchase one that had this issue that you clearly knew about and bothered you enough to get kicked of the apple boards and then to bring it here.

 

I'll chime in and say that my S96J (Same can be assumed of the Z96J, S96Js, and Z96Js, that my screen does NOT touch the keyboard.

And that if definitely is not a "pretty common thing". It is a design flaw.

 

You're right it is a design flaw, but you're wrong that it's not common. I've seen this issue on a number of different brands of laptops.

I don't argue that it's OK. Obviously, it's not. My only argument is that it's pretty stupid to buy something, that you know has a flaw that bothers you, and then threaten law suites.

 

Just to ask, who has actually experienced literal screen damage because of this issue?

The most I've ever seen from this is that sometimes grease/etc. from the keys can leave marks on the screen, but these wipe away.

I haven't heard of it as a common problem that people's screens are actually damaged as a result of this. Can someone point out the nature of this damage (permanent marks in the screen, etc.)?

If someone's screen was actually damaged because of this, are you saying that Apple has refused to fix it under AppleCare warranty, or what?

-Zadillo

 

It happens with the Sony VAIO FJ, but not most of their other notebooks. I'd not say that its a 'common' problem persay, but it happens with enough notebooks that it isn't fair to blame Apple alone. Although, almost all Apple notebooks I have seen have had this problem....

To avoid it, just put a thin microfiber cloth between the kb and the screen.

 

I would guess that those people that voted that they have screen damage - they probably do not have those notebooks anymore (would you use a notebook with damaged screen? probably you would try to get rid of it as soon as you see it). Of course would be nice if those people would leave some comments here...

 

Yeah, I might buy one. But $15 for a piece of microfiber cloth from Radtech is quite expensive..not including tax and shipping.

 

Yeah, it's still fairly reasonable.

If you have an Apple Store near you, another nice one is Marware's Protection Pack, which they normally stock:

http://www.marware.com/PRODUCTS/Apple-Laptop-Products/Protection-Pack-for-MacBook-Pro

$19.95 for both a keyboard cover and a wrist rest area protector.

One thing to note though, from Marware's description of the keyboard cover:

I think it's worth noting that they make no mention of protecting from actual damage to the screen by the keyboard. It seems pretty clear that if this was such a common problem/design flaw (as this thread seems to be about), that Marware would be touting that as the biggest benefit of this.

But they note only that it protects against the transfer of dirt and oil to the screen, which is what typically is left as marks, etc.

Again, I really have to ask, where is the evidence for actual permanent screen damage here, as opposed to the problem described above - transfer of dirt and oil from the keys to the screen.

I've seen that issue - dirt and oil being transferred. I personally have never seen a PowerBook or MacBook Pro with permanent damage to the screen just from the keys touching it.

-Zadillo

 

I will try to get you a photo - If you have doubts. The only problem is that from 4 of my friends with damaged screens - probably only 1 still has that laptop...
In technical terms - the TFT coating is very thin layer of chemicals, which can get damaged easily (thats why even cleaning should be done with pure water or special solutions, not just any cleaning liquid)...If it would be just a plain glass - I am sure there would be no problem with scratching (cause keyboard keys are plastic).

 

If we would ignore new MBP's - then the ration of damaged MBP's is quite scarry 1:2, need more people to vote - so this would be more legible...

 

One thing I'm not clear on; has Apple said they won't fix/replace the screen for you?

You mentioned posting on Apple discussion forums, but what has Apple said about a repair when you actually called them?

-Zadillo

 

My notebook is few weeks old - i do not have any damage yet (and i am not even carrying this notebook around). My friends had damage - so I was just curriuos to investigate how widely spread it is.
My friend that had damage and warranty - Apple did replace screen. But the thing is that it mostly happens after warranty expires - so those people are out of luck (3 that i know).

 

alenas, can you explain to me, if the keyboard and trackpad button can damage the screen then why does no liquid transfer onto the screen when I purposely tried to do so, even going as far as pressing on the lid. I can't believe people are worrying about the extremely small amount of oil from fingers getting on the screen when I can't even get saliva to transfer, on purpose. Obviously people with damaged screens are not taking care of their laptops. I bring mine with me everywhere by the way. It's not just left on a desk. My guess is your friends put things that are excessively heavy on top of their laptops.

 

Hmmm - it is hard to explain - but if liquid does not transfer to your screen - then your notebook will be fine for sure.
Other people (and myself) can definitely see liquid transfering (and we do not even have to press hard). Just make sure you moisten the sharp edges of the keys and put your laptop to the case (just emulate how you would be carrying it). Do not forget to have a battery on your MBP.
The only explanation I could have is that MBP's are being made by few different manufacturers - so there could be some differences in a build...
My friends did not put anything heavy on the laptops - they are just normal people - for example - one is a truck driver - the other 2 are graphic designers.

 

My guess is that this problem has a lot more to do with the inconsistencies in the aluminum MBP cases, than the LCDs themselves.

 

Yes - that is nothing to do with LCD's for sure. All LCD's would be vulnerable if keys touch them all the time...
Probably you are right - i never thought about it - but to make aliuminium shape with the same dimensions is way harder than molding the plastic.

 

On a side note, what's it like to use a Mac in Redmond, Washington, alenas?

 

I put a big windows VISTA sticker on the lid on top of apple shining logo. So now it is shining VISTA logo Also running VISTA - seems like bill does not mind that

 

Wow . Shining Vista . As Bertrand Serlet said, "sure, its got a nice big bubble around it, but underneath it all...its still Windows" .

So you're mostly on Vista/on Vista all the time? I see.

 

This thread is a joke...I do not know why we are still feeding into Alenas. If this were a "major design flaw" then wouldnt it be fair to say that most (if not all) of the hundreds of thousands of MBPs sold would have been at some point recalled due to complaints? Major design flaws in the past have always warranted recalls due to numerous complaints, which only leads me to believe this is hardly a major design flaw. Is it a minor flaw..perhaps, but its a flaw to notebooks in general. You even mentioned that you do not see effects till after the 3 year warranty? How convenient of you to say that to further strengthen your argument that apple has a conspiracy going. On a last note, it is clear you are a troll or else you would not just express your love for vista out of the blue in an apple forum, specifically in a thread talking about apple LCD damage.

 

Warranty is 1 year - not 3 years. 3 years is additional warranty that you have to pay for.
I do not mind being a troll if you like that idea...
Do you think there is more possibility to get screen damage if i am running Vista?

 

LOL that's awesome

 

Lol, I noticed that earlier too. How ironic.