Are macs over hyped?

Doubt apple will lower prices on macs anytime soon when they know *some* people would buy a mac even if it cost 3-4x more than a equivalent windows platform.

 

People buy macs and put boot camp on them to boot Win 7 anyways they just look at the look of the PC... Most buyers don't care about specs, they want style feel and prestige...

 

All I've been saying this whole time is that Mac OS, Linux, Solaris, etc are Unix-like operating systems descended from the original Unix TSS (time sharing system).

dmk2's post elaborates on this further, so I see no reason to comment any more.

 

I know nothing about the OS as I have always been a windows user, but I must say the MacBooks are slim, portable and have a lot of battery life.

I would not buy a MacBook though, as it will not meet my needs in terms of power. The ATI 6750M that is in the newest gen MBP is a GPU for suitable standard users, but it wont suit me as I need a GPU powerhouse.

 

Bog, I feel like this necessitates one more comment. While all Unix systems today are descendant of the original Unix system (much like windows is a decedent of previous windows systems) that does not impose whether a system is considered a Unix operating system or a Unix-like operating system. Unix-like operating systems include Linux, from your list. However, Solaris and Mac OS X are Unix operating systems.

It just means that those systems are licensed to use the trademark and are certified to conform to a single unix specification. Linux certainly is generally compatible with unix, but may or may not conform to a single unix specification, and is not certified to conform in any case.

Wikipedia is a simple source to read more about this. The first sentence shows the distinction if you look up solaris and linux. One is called a unix operating system, the other a unix-like operating system.

You can also read this: What is UNIX ?

Obviously, when we are talking about unix in the modern sense, we don't refer to the original unix OS. Unix has evolved beyond just an OS, and has become a specification.

TL;DR - you are correct about the operating system genealogy, but incorrect with your terminology.

 

I've been referring to Unix not as the trademark that it is today, but rather as the OS it once was. My comments were made relative to this fact. Hopefully this clears up any misunderstandings or confusion.

 

This thread will be closed in 3....2....1.....
I have OS X on a virtual machine and just cant get used to it. Seems nice, but the fact that it is a VM and I don't have to use it, kinda keeps me away from it. Other than that, I never use it for anything. Had a Mac about 2 years ago for a few days-couldn't get the hang of it fast enough cause I was soooo used to Windows so I gave up-Stuck with Win 7. Happy me!!! It's all personal preference. You have 5% of the market saying Mac and the other 89 saying PC(windows). That other 1% are the super nerds (no offence) using Linux, Ubuntu and the such. Mostly it will come down to price and practicality.

 

OUCH!! Could we just call it complacencey??? Eases the pain a little. *Feelings hurt*. Not really, but I am satisfied where I am so I CHOOSE to stay with Windows which is MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Which makes it preference, right??? And, notice my last sentence did you?

Let me guess-you own a Mac? Just saying, nothing wrong with that as that is what you PREFER. Each computer, be it PC or Mac, will do whatever you want it to. Some more efficiently than others. Some progs are geared to Macs like games are usually geared toward PC users. If you're happy with Windows-stay with it. If not and you have the time-try OS X. It's just an opinion which is what the OP asked for.

 

Having worked with all manner of operating systems, there are a few ups and downs to using Mac OS X, but I'd rather just put them in point form for the sake of any readers:

Pros:
- the OS is relatively free of malware compared to Windows (a double-edged sword, however)
- the OS is completely agnostic about maintenance (no defragging, disk cleanup, etc.), something most regular users ignore altogether
- for a Linux user it retains some nice features from its cousins
- highly optimized and tightly integrated with its chosen hardware; this results in better battery life, few worries about drivers, etc.
- OS comes bundled with tons of productivity software, a great plus compared to Windows which is useless out-of-the-box. This aspect of Macs lowers their total cost of ownership.

Cons:
- Mac OS X is behind on applying security features that Windows has had for a long time. Ex, address space layout randomization is poorly implemented.
source: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Address_space_layout_randomization
- given that the file explorer is the most used program in an OS, Mac's Finder really is embarrassingly bad.
- sometimes the sparse settings give an illusion of choice.
- the Dock is terrible at multi-tasking and Expose doesn't help past a low threshold.
- essential window management like Windows' Aero Snap is completely absent.

 

Your post would be taken a lot more seriously had you named the pros and cons of BOTH systems and then posted as to why you think Macs are overhyped? Guess you have zero cons about the perfect Windows OS since you mentioned none.

 

Keep the insults and flaming out of this thread. The OP has a perfectly valid question, which he articulated without so-called "trolling." If you cannot deal with alternative opinions and friendly debate, don't post. If you have useful arguments to post, then by all means, do so. Some posts have been deleted, and some users have been given warnings--next time a moderator has to clean up, this thread will be locked and users will receive infractions. Thank you

 

"file explorer" thats pretty good
What is wrong with Finder? Overall I like it much more than I like Explorer in Win7. A few of the things I don't like (like cut and paste, and merge folders) are added in Lion, and were missing from earlier versions. The layout, side bar, the 3 main views, are all really good.

Terrible how? clicking on the app you want to see? Clicking and holding to see all the windows of the app you click and hold on so you can click the window you want? I'm not sure why anyone would use the dock alone to multitask,but its not bad at it at all.

essential? which ones besides Snap do you find essential.. I hate Snap, it is so annoying with how I like to move windows around and it tries to snap something I just want out of the way a bit. I'd never consider Snap to be essential.

 

Agreed with all points. Explorer is a ridiculously complicated for most end users and the control panel and explorer in W7 is utterly dense and full of confusion. Apple has done a great job getting the Finder's act together and it's simple, easy and it makes sense, especially Lion's Finder. Most average people aren't doing extensive file management anymore and I beg to differ if most geeks are dealing with that either. That's one of the reasons why Apple is trying to move the industry away from complicated file management.

The Snap feature in W7 is all that was really added to 7 from Vista along with a cleaned up Task Bar. Window Management?? What was he talking about earlier? The Task Bar has the most limited functions in Windows. Expose and Spaces offers the best window management along with the Dock, nothing beats them. MS's been trying to make it mimic the OS X Dock. The Dock does so much more for daily use. I would use the Snap feature in 7 maybe once a month at best. It's annoying to move windows around and it tries to force application windows to Snap. Retarded.

This is just some of my reasons why I know that Macs aren't overhyped. The experience is what you're paying for. People use Windows because other people use Windows and they were told to. People use Macs because they choose to.

 

Keeping in line with the original question, I'd have to say that, in my opinion, Macs are really nothing but hype these days. Yes, they do run an different OS than most other PCs on the market, but for the most part, there's nothing special about them anymore. They are just your standard computer with a specialized EFI and a picture of a half-eaten fruit on it. They can run Windows without the need for emulation software now, they use Intel chips, etc. So yes, they are just hype. Also, for the record, I'm currently in the cafeteria at my school and there's someone using a Mac near me. What OS is he using? Windows.

 

Another "Keeping in line with the original question" addition.

Over-hyped? Yes, in the same way that Bose is in audio. Good, quality product at a higher price point than it deserves. My Altec Lansing ipod dock sounds just as good as my Bose dock but for $200 less.

Regardless, there is no Mac available with the specs I need so my choice was made for me by Steve. I'm sure Bill appreciated it.

 

This is simply not true. I know people who use macs because they were raised with macs (that is, they learned on them in their early days of personal computing), and because of the human condition, familiarity takes precedence over anything and everything, and they will even pay the price premium and take any possible cons for ease of mind. The same can be said for windows users. Linux users seem to be able to adapt and use anything

You are paying the price premium for the macs' nice looking design, and to be allowed to play in the Walled Garden without worry of compatibility/headache free. There's more but that summarizes what I think about macs. All the OS's are actually streamlining in similar ways - they all run similar programs, they all have problems (sometimes even similar problems!), they are even starting to look and function the same on the GUI level. Most mac users really don't give a damn about what is different under the hood of their computer, and so a lot of the important differences are lost on these users.

 

My posts can be taken seriously if they're actually read. Clearly you failed to do that as many of my points contrast different operating systems.

I mentioned the absence of malware for Mac OS X and contrasted it to Windows. I mentioned the lack of system maintenance in Mac OS X and again contrasted to Windows. To be fair, I also pointed out the lack of Mac OS X security features compared to Windows. You're saying I didn't consider the pros and cons of each OS, favoring Windows? Come off it, anyone here will tell you that you're flat wrong about that.

Personally I am a platform agnostic as a computer user. An OS is just one tool in the tool box; you use the right tool for the job and that's it.

You can't cut files the way you can in every other OS around. When you move files from a folder, the remaining files don't realign themselves to form a new, continuous grid. Finder lacks settings and thus loses out on functionality.

Mac OS X has a view of "multi-tasking" that I don't really agree with. In Windows, you can distinguish minimized windows by their title and by a thumbnail preview. In Mac OS X, identifying windows requires a mouseover. Expose attempts to rectify this, but quickly becomes disorderly past a certain number of open Windows. I suspect this is because Mac OS X expects the user to work on one window at a time, whereas Windows offers more flexibility. Its all a matter of differing UI design.

Given that widescreens are the standard, I use Aero Snap on my desktop 21.5" monitor to quickly and easily pull up two documents for comparison. Ex, spreadsheet on the right and word processor on the left. The ability to efficiently order multiple windows is an advantage that Mac OS X (and many other OSs, actually) completely lacks. The user has to do it manually, though they can install something like BetterTouchTool.

I agree with the fact that Control Panel is overcrowded and confusing. I've been observing this since XP, but I think most Windows users would be puzzled by your claim that File Explorer is confusing. Windows has its issues (user maintenance, drivers, etc), but the File Explorer is not really one of them.

You're very quick to praise the virtues of simplicity over complexity while ignoring the fact that both have situations in which they are appropriate. Yours is a very one-sided view that ignores the benefits of complexity.

"Mac OS X is superior, MS just copies the Dock..."

I've heard that one before. Developers borrow design elements from each other all the time and use them in different contexts. It isn't like they're plagiarizing a book. If MS did copy the Dock, there is no copyright infringement lawsuit to back up your claim.

Multiple monitors can boost productivity by a huge amount simply because the user can view multiple windows at a time. With a widescreen monitor, Aero Snap allows the user to effectively duplicate that functionality by quickly resizing windows for the user. It doesn't force you to do anything unless you *release the mouse button*.

Tell me, are you actually thinking about UI design, productivity, fewer clicks and all that or are you just criticizing things because they're "retarded" according to you?

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? You're being condescending towards certain computer users based on the OS they use.

 

My wife had two Macbooks. First one bought around 2005, was one of those that had all white, all plastic body and we were very disappointed with its built quality. After a few months, an outer edge/rim of plastic, below palm rests, starts separating from the body. Just flapping around on contact. The battery died after a hundred or so charge cycles, but luckily was replaced for free by Apple out of warranty because Apple issued a recall due to the wide-spread Sony battery problem. Sold it in favor of a Dell, because her work demanded a PC for software compatibility.

Second one was bought late 2008/early 2009, an all-metal design, held up well but had a bad habit of freezing (the perpetual spinning color wheel). Re-install and Genius Bar couldn't fix it. It was eventually replaced with an iMac on my wife's desk.

Our experience hasn't been stellar with Macs, but certainly no better or worse than what I get out of PCs. However, I will say this, these things retrieve excellent values on eBay. We used each ~2 years and sold them on eBay for roughly 60% of original sales prices. May be it is over-hyped, but when it comes to resale, that's a good thing.

 

No you cannot cut/paste with keyboard shortcuts, as its designed more around mouse use... wether that is important at all is purely subjective.

I'm not sure I understand the rest though. I assume your talking about Icon view in Finder (which I rarely ever even use), but it will auto arrange the icons if you set it to do so.. in the Finder preferences. Not sure why you'd say Finder lacks settings, since there are plenty of settings for it.

this is probably very subjective as well.. but how many windows do you actually have open at once? Even up over 50 I have no problems... and since you can Expose by app and not by al windows, it makes it pretty easy too... 50 windows per app open, hundreds of windows... and I still don't see an issue. Its probably just based on what your familiar with. What you already know how to do always seems the easiest.

I think its still funny you called a File Manager a File Explorer earlier, and still saying File Explorer here. I think it shows you haven't been on computers as long, and probably learned on Windows XP or later, though I'm not saying thats for sure.

I don't think HLdan is alone on this though... I find Explorer confusing as well, and I've had to help a number of people figure out how to use it to find what they are looking for. Its mostly straight forward to people who have used Windows for years and know what to look for ahead of time. Finder leaves some to be desired in being able to quickly figure out how to use it as well, but I still find it more intuitive to me than Explorer is now... I think Explorer has actually gone downhill since XP.

thats just a part of multiple monitors... its for more screen space period, not just because you can put 2 documents up. There is a lot of stuff you can do with tons of space. And if your trying to move a window and it wants to snap.. why would you not release a button when your quickly trying to move something? Just going to sit there with the mouse button down and not do anything.. or have to move it some more to get it in a different spot than you wanted it? Disabling Snap is possible though, so its not that bad. I'm glad it works for you, but its not that super feature for everyone that you act like it is.

 

Pointing out that maintenance is more complex on Windows and the lack of security necessities on Mac is not pointing out negatives about Windows in regards to features. But I like your attempt on that one.

Since other parts of your post conveniently point out features that only exist in the newest version of Windows then I shall do the same because in regards to Lion you're dead wrong about Cut n Paste in Finder. In fact it's done much better and more efficient in Lion than in Windows 7. Since Lion will be out in a couple of weeks I can use that argument.

WRONG. Where did you get that information from? You can easily distinguish minimized windows on the Dock because the application icon shows what app is minimized along with a thumbnail view of the open app. You're also wrong because in Windows it requires a mouseover to see the title of the application or the title of the website of the minimized browser or the thumbnail of the minimized window for that matter. Speaking of getting quite disorderly, when there's too much minimized in the TaskBar the thumbnail previews are atrociously ridiculous. It's actually Windows that has issues with multiple windows. It's really meant to run one app at a time. Nice try though.

This is the part where you're trying to prove a point about a feature in Windows that's only existed since Vista. The Snap isn't that big of a deal and most average people (which represent a very large customer base) are not using multiple monitors. Tell me now, what was the Windows crowd doing when XP was the only game of Windows in town? There was no Snap. The majority of the Windows community uses XP still. Your argument on the Snap feature is moot. Most of the features in OS X are seasoned features that have been in OS X for years. Many people would disagree with you wholeheartedly because Expose is one of the best window management functions of the Mac OS. It's a feature that many Windows users would welcome if they had it, but they don't.

Really? well we can agree to disagree because I happen to know many Windows users that hate Explorer and stay away from it. Be honest about it, most average users aren't doing complex file management on any computer. Also isn't it called "Windows Explorer?" Is "File Explorer" different? LOL.

I will say a few reasons why the Mac is not overhyped. The hardware and the software are fully integrated and it lacks driver issues like Windows just because of this. Lot's of functionality tied with the hardware and the OS that the Windows world simply can't duplicate. Try long file names with punctuations on Windows. Your PC will hate you. Try to drag and drop files to the Recycle bin without using Add/Remove, your PC will hate you.

Windows is too dependent on 3rd party software. Out of the box with a clean OS a Mac can open any PDF or MS Office doc or even connect to Exchange Server 2007 without any version of Office or any extra software. Can you say the same about Windows? No.

Your entire post I've quoted is one sided.

If you've heard it before there must be some truth. Are you telling me that it's just a coincidence that the W7 Taskbar has OS X Dock-like features that have existed for years? A coincidence that the useless Windows Flip3D tries to mimic OS X's Expose? Windows Search mimic's OS X's Spotlight? What about the upcoming Windows 8 that finally reads PDF's without Adobe or any other 3rd party PDF reader? That's been built-in to OS X since 2001. The new Windows 8 backup feature that mimic's OS X's Time Machine? Coincidence? Borrowing? I think not. That's copying.

Really? I can't even count how condescending the Windows forum is to the Mac forum almost weekly. The one I read all the time here is people that buy Macs are generally not educated about computers and buy them because they are pretty boutique toys. That's pretty condescending and presumptuous too.

 

Are Macs over hyped? Yes
They are fashion statements.
They do have a few nice features though, good screens, nice backlight keyboards, good build quality on the pros.

 

there's really no point bickering about the extremely particular details of the OS when discussing whether or not macs are over hyped. It's simply not relevant.

 

Are you high? finder is awesome. It's nice not having to search through 8 folder to find the program or document you're looking for.

Mac is "simplistic."
You can added, remove, change files in a heartbeat without even touching the trackpad...all through commands. (try that in windows)

Am I a fanboy? no I've been using Windows since 3.1 and still have a monster desktop. But when I comes to laptops the macbook pro trumps about 95% of laptops out there because of versatility (battery life, screen, speakers...i know i know gaming blah blah blah) macs lack in the gaming area because most developers don't and won't focus their resources towards osX. It goes along the same idea of why macs are less prone to viruses.

You pay a premium for Mac to run an OS not legally available to any other platform. On top of which you get a sleek, modern screen with all the bells and whistles. Not to mention Applecare is on top of their game. As a consumer sure apple is strict, but in a business stand they are doing everything right, there is a reason for all the hype.

TL;DR It's like comparing a BMW M3 series to a Corvette, sure the vette may be faster, but the beemer is more elegant and refined to deliver a smooth driving experience.

 

I strongly disagree because most the replies (from Windows users no doubt) are short posts just saying, "Are Macs over-hyped?" Yes. No real explanation as to why. The other ones are pointing out why they prefer Windows rather than saying why Macs are over-hyped. Nobody has really given a quality reason as why Macs are overhyped other than the fact that they prefer Windows.
At this point it's best to point out the best attributes of the Mac and the Mac OS rather small or large.

 

Maintenance of the OS is always neglected by most users; the fact that Windows still requires defragging and disk cleanup while Mac OS X doesn't is what I'd call a drawback. Don't try to be smug with me.

Windows 7 and Snow Leopard have been directly competing for how long now? I rest my case.

1) You still have to mouseover to get the title of the window
2) the thumbnail is literally the size of one's thumbnail; its useless as a visual cue.

The functionality is there, but its useless.

If you're looking for a Windows fanboy to argue with, you may as well talk to the nearest wall. That said, its impossible to know what proportion of users actually use Aero Snap, but there you go making unsubstantiated claims again.

Windows/File explorer, it doesn't really matter what you call it. I'm referring to the file management shell for Windows.

You are accusing me of being one-sided, yet you're clearly arguing that Mac OS X is superior to Windows; in fact I haven't heard you make one concession on matters of fact whereas I have. In what world besides your own are you really without bias?

There's a simple phrase that defeats your entire paragraph. Here it is:
Same utility, different implementation =/= copying. When one company successfully sues for copyright infringement, that is copying.

Really? I don't care. They're both operating systems with pros and cons. I use both, but I don't waste my time defending one or the other. You do. That makes you no better than a Windows fanboy.

 

wow. page after page of discussions about what unix is and is not and other crazy back and forth dissecting of others posts that they think they have to reply to.

if someone I knew were actually considering a Mac, this (thread) would be the last place I would send them. lol

Why not simply reply to the original post in this thread versus getting into rediculous debates?

Are Macs over hyped? No, they are awesome and I love them

 

Yeah, I really regret all this back-and-forth. Maybe my dislike for Finder is more opinion than fact, but the rest of my original post is absolutely fair and correct in regards to both OSs. Honestly I don't know why some people become hostile over these things, I guess its part of the consumer's pride in ownership.

 

The one problem I have with this statement, isn't so much in respect to file management but, in respect to apple as a whole.

I think there is a tendency for apple to strive for simplicity.

the problem I have with simplicity, is the more "simple" something is made.. the more you sacrifice in other respects.. There is always a trade off.

Usually more simplicity results in less functionality...

That is an opinion.

I prefer windows snap.. It is actually my personal favorite windows management system I have ever seen implemented.

It is nearly impossible for me to multitask on my girlfriends mac because, anytime I need two windows I end up spending more time managing windows. While two windows don't have to be the exact same size to effectively manage.. it is very, very nice and much easier on the eyes when I can snap them in place. If I have to copy or take notes, its much more pleasant than going back and forth between spaces which is really bad if I'm tired or feeling forgetful and having to go back and forth twice as much.

In contrast while being productive, spaces just feels out right unprofessional due to the way everything seems to go everywhere.

This entire paragraph is outright bias..

 

While you keep insisting that Mac OS X is superior to other operating systems whilst accusing others of being biased, I will offer an answer to the thread question:

- Apple seeks to inspire consumer pride in product ownership, mainly through intensive marketing campaigns (Mac vs PC television ads, poster ads, etc.).

- Apple emphasizes the "Mac experience", further alienating Mac consumers from the rest of the market since PC users don't have the same emphasis on why they bought their respective product. This creates divisions in the consumer community.

- Divisions between consumers is great for corporate profits because it fosters brand loyalty. When brand loyalty goes up, the result is hype. This creates even more brand loyalty and division.

Ultimately, if you want to get people worked up over a banality you use intensive marketing, ie propaganda. These techniques apply not just to Apple products, but all manner of everyday products where competing goods are the same and the only distinguishing factor is marketing. This is why looking for technical reasons to explain the Mac "hype" is a fool's errand.

 

Clearly, some of you (you know who you are) are not capable of sustaining a proper discussion without resorting to bickering and hurling insults, so this thread is now closed. Sorry, and thank you to those few who contributed their rational and well-stated arguments.