Buying new mbp, please help me decide what size ssd i need?

Hello, all apple experts. I have already figured out what i want on my 17'' macbook pro I'm going to buy except about the storage drives. I work with huge databases and after seeing the improvement other people I know have had after switching to ssd drives, (people who are running the same program(s) I do), I have decided that is what I need. But I really need help figuring out what size ssd I need to get, and whether to do something goofy like remove optical drive & replace with ssd or plug ssd in to expresscard slot(if even possible?)
details below:

I will be running windows via bootcamp, as the programs I mainly use only work on windows. I was looking at the 128gb ssd, and the 256gb ssd. I am not sure if 128gb is enough though. When I'm not working in windows I figured i could use the mac os for basic web stuff etc. and I would like to learn to use some of the mac music making programs for fun eventually, but I don't think I'd need much space for that(right?). I'm not a huge gamer, but i would also like room to throw a couple games on my pc, i mean mbp to play once in a while, and figure 2-3 games is going to take up around 20gb at least. I need my music, that's going to be like 10gb probably. And then I also need some room for some random movies and videos that I like to play in the background sometimes while I'm working. I figure that's prob around 20gb. So would 128gb drive be enough or should I go for the 256? It's a huge cost increase, but I figure, it's already costing me around 2700, so an extra 600 is worth it for being able to use it the way I want to, and I would just consider it an extra business expense. I read that windows 7 takes up around 30gb and could not find out how much space mac os takes up, so I would really like to hear from ppl with experience here.

I've also considered the option of swapping the optical drive for an ssd. But I really don't want to void the warranty or have to mess with the computer that much. I am very technically inclined and I once built a desktop pentium 2 a long time ago, but I don't really have the time or patience to mess with computers anymore, so I really would not want to worry about swapping out the optical drive unless that really is the best option. Can anyone tell me if that voids the warranty or not? I have also heard that putting a drive in the optical bay isn't as "safe' for the drive because it can bounce around a little bit. Is this true?

-And I also heard you can use the express card slot on the 17'' to plug in an ssd and use it as a boot drive, but only for the mac os and not windows? Can anyone confirm/deny this?

I know that is a lot of typing, but thanks for any help advice, it's much appreciated!

P.S. I know most people on this forum are very helpful and pleasant, but there are some people who instead of answering my question will stat spewing nonsese at me about "if you're only going to use windows buy a pc blah blah blah." Do not do that. Obviously, if I have taken the time to write everything I just did, I also took the time to consider a pc. I want a 1920x1200 resolution 17''(I need all that real estate if i want to get any work done away from my 24'' desk monitor), a large touchpad, and a weight of less than 10lbs... And also being a non-ugly computer, while not as important, is a huge bonus. If you can show me that pc laptop, please do, otherwise just be quiet help me with my hard drive dilemma thanks

 

Does installing your own drive invalidate the warranty?

160GB seems like it would be the sweet spot for you. And it lets you buy an Intel.

edit:

If you're going to go with an Apple-supplied drive, get the larger size. You may have more a problem with performance degradation if you use close to 100% of the drive capacity. I'd still go with an Intel, though.

 

I keep hearing mixed messages. As long as you plug the old drive in before you take it to the store they won't be able to tell.

It might be a little intimidating but I would highly recommend you do it yourself. Apple charges twice as much for RAM and Hard Drive for some reason. And don't worry about looking for "Mac Hard drives" or "Mac rams". They don't exist. if you get the right speed ram and type, all rams work. All Sata hard drives work as well.

 

I'd never suggest anyone buy a Mac if their are going to primarily use Windows... you are MUCH better off buying a machine designed for Windows.

 

It honestly depends what you're going to be putting in the space. Movies and games are the big space killers; a movie can use up 1-2GB per movie, whereas a game can use up anywhere from 1GB to 12GB (often depending on age; newer games tend to be bigger in size). I'd personally always go with more storage, but in the case of SSDs you have to pay a very large premium for that. 160GB should be a sweet spot; I'd recommend an Intel X25-M 160GB.

Profit?

 

160GB = win.

intel Gen 2's can be had off eBay for $330 new.

 

Did you read the last few lines of my op? Please read/reread them. Unless you posted just to try & be funny since I specifically asked people not to give responses like this...

 

doh123's comment is very valid and it's been seen over and over again. People buy a MacBook to run only Windows, they aren't happy with the little quirks that come with it and then they complain about it, realizing they should have bought a laptop designed for Windows to begin with.

 

Without getting into an argument... while it was half in jest, it is still totally true... if your using Windows for most everything, a plus in screen, size, and trackpad is going to be negated by problems. I'm not some Mac basher telling you this.. I love Macs, and only use Macs, but I cannot honestly condone helping someone do something thats bad decision. Your just asking for a bag of hurt.

You can get Lenovo 17" laptops (like the WS701) with the same resolution that are are like 8.5 pounds... sure they are expensive, but for a Windows mobile workstation, they are great.

anything you add is not covered under warranty... anything you break on accident while doing so is not covered under warranty, but it will not void your whole machines warranty. It can be a challenge to do though, a lot of little pieces and routing wires and things around. No the drive will not bounce around or move at all if you mount it correctly.

 

Ok, doh123, I understand your point, and it is a valid point. But is it really that bad running windows on a mac? I know people have driver problems & various issues but for the most part it seems like people are usually getting windows 7 to work fine on their macs. I mean, you say I am asking for a bag of hurt, but it can't be any worse than buying a pc laptop. The last 2 pc laptops I bought were bad out of the box after waiting ~~3 weeks to get them. Constant crashing, driver issues, and then completely refusing to turn on.
And as for the workstation laptops, I really don't need a giant workstation class laptop- I might as well carry around my 24'' monitor with me. I don't want to double the thickness of my laptop, just to get a screen and build quality equivalent to what I was able to get 5 years ago on a pc laptop...

It's sad, but it seems pc makers just started a race to the bottom for who could make the cheapest laptops.
I have a 5 year old dell Insprion 9300- it has a 1920x1200 screen, and a solid build, but it's obv way to slow so I only keep it as a backup. Now, 5 years later, most dells and the rest of the pc laptops now are made with lower build quality, and lower screen resolutions(save the super thick workstations, and super thick alienware/sager type deals w/ all less than 2 hrs of battery). It's like they all (hp, dell, etc.) want to be the Wal-Marts of computer makers. So, even if an apple causes me some issues from time to time, as long as it works, I would rather support a company like apple who cares about their image, their customers, and making quality products, things that the pc makers seem to have forgotten about.

 

It's not as if W7 won't work. There's nothing that blatant. Just lots of little annoyances.

If you're used to a Windows laptop, and you use lots of keyboard shortcuts, you may find yourself re-teaching your fingers where the control key is (for example).

The trackpad that is fabulous in OS X may be jittery and less responsive. Get a mouse.

As I understand it, you're going to be using the discrete GPU whenever you use W7. Battery life won't be the same.

If you like the machine itself (and there's a lot to like), and your needs are primarily RAM and CPU based (as opposed to GPU), I might try running W7 virtualized, rather than dual or single-booting W7. That gives you the comfort of using familiar Windows software, while allowing you to venture into OS X at your own pace.

Ultimately, you may find that you can run what you need natively in OS X. Navicat, for example, publishes an OS X version of their front end for MySQL (and a handful of other dbms)

 

I think this has been hinted at a couple of times with the bad battery life, but Windows runs inefficiently on a MB, meaning it eats through your battery much faster than OS X. Just a heads up.

 

Well, the reason I was going to use bootcamp is that everything I read about boocamp vs. parallels and fusion said that bootcamp worked best. But the stuff I use my computer for isn't very gpu intensive, just cpu intensive, so are you saying that running virtualized windows 7 instead of bootcamp works better if I don't need hi end graphics power, just lots of cpu power? Because then I could probably get away with a smaller SSD(and just skip playing the occasional windows game(s).

And by the way, will running both bootcamp and parallels or fusion screw it up?

*and yes I know windows 7 kills the battery life, but the way I use my computer, I'm never going to get more than 3 hrs from any laptop unplugged, unless I throw a giant extra battery onto it, which is fine because I rarely find myself away from a power outlet working for more than 2 hours at time.
From the posts i have read from people running windows on 13 & 15'' 2009 mbp's they were saying like 2hrs, 2.5 hrs, 1.5 hrs, and one guy said he got 6 hours from fusion(not sure I believe that though). But that's basically the same battery life I would get from any hi-end pc 17'' laptop unless I throw a huge extended battery onto it. Unlike the macs, there are lots of powerful 15 inchers with decent battery life, but no 17'', so I really have given up on ever finding a computer with long battery life...

However, I really do appreciate all your critical input, and it has made me realize that I really need to find someone with a mac computer running windows 7 bootcamp 3.1 or virtualization and play with it for myself to see if it's tolerable. The biggest problem it sounds like people are having is with the touchpad. I usually use a mouse anyway, but still would be a pain if that nice mac touchpad is useless in windows...

 

That's pretty much what it. I have three basic points:

(1) Provided you've got at least 4GB RAM, and unless you're gaming, your Windows experience will probably be better in Parallels/Fusion than booting W7. I've heard that the latest version of Parallels is actually pretty good w/ graphics. Still not as good as running W7 natively, but maybe good enough to do what you need.

(2) If you're getting an SSD, it's better to get one that gives you 130-150% of the storage you think you'll need rather than one that gives you 100-110% of the capacity you need.

(3) I love my X-25M G2.

 

Just to let everyone know I contacted Apple several different times: phone, chat and in store and if you replace the hard drive it WILL NOT void the applecare. It will void the applecare on any hard drive based problems though. but if the ram, DVD drive, screen, battery, etc goes bad they will fix it.

 

I currently have Windows 7 set up on a second drive I added to my MBP 15"

I use the same exact partition to boot up in VMware... so i can reboot into it, or run it virtualized.

I only boot directly into Win7 if I need to play a game, because I need the GPU... there are few games this ever happens on for me, since most I care about will run in Wineskin great... I haven't even booted into Windows in several months now.

When I do run it in Windows, the trackpad is much nicer than anything I've used on a non-Mac laptop, but still no where as good as how it functions in OSX... its clunky and tougher to use... not sure how to explain it though.

The keyboard backlight doesn't like to turn off ever...

I have to override the fan control which isn't easy.. I had to use some command line program I found and make some batch files for pre-set speeds. If I do not do this while gaming, the CPU often gets over 100ºC before the fans even start spinning up, often shutting off the computer because of too high of temperatures.

My battery is listed as "5 hours" but its getting old, it pulls about 4 hours now in OSX, but even just sitting idle in Win7 I can't even get 2 hours... last time I tried to actually use Windows for some programming assignment I had to do directly booting into it, it barely got over an hour.

Keyboard shortcuts are also a pain on the MBP because the keyboard is not designed for Windows, and you have to memorize a big list of key equivalents to press to get things done.

oh.. and when installing Windows, it was a pain because I couldn't remove the Windows disc to put in my drivers disc.. the trackpad wont do any right clicks until the driver is installed, and the Eject button for the CD doesn't work either... so I had to go dig up a 2 button USB mouse to plug in just to finish the Windows install, which is highly annoying... or you'd have to reboot just to change the disc out.

thats the pains I can think of off the top of my head. The cooling is the most serious one... it works fine in OSX, but in Windows, it just doesn't cool properly. I have to manually change fan speeds (which there is currently no good Windows program for that works with these) or the machine will fry itself. Even newer ones have reports of waiting til close to 100ºC before changing speeds... it does this in OSX too, but still handles it better. One time I saw my CPU in Windows at 108ºC and the fans were still at stock 2000 rpm...

Running Windows in a VM is great if you just have 1 or 2 Windows program you need (that wont run in Wine).. but are still primarily using OSX as your main OS.

 

Well, I talked to someone who does exactly what I do, and he said that while he was traveling for 3 months at the end of last year he used fusion to run xp on a mbp he bought in aug. 09, and had no issues whatsoever, and didn't see why he would ever even want to use bootcamp unless he wanted to play games.

Does windows 7 work as well as xp in fusion I wonder?

 

did you grab that $50 enclosure I stubmled upon online? link por favor?

holy sh*t. you're able to VM into the exact same Win7 install that you Bootcamp into? ! SHARE. that sounds brilliant. blows my mind really.

sh*t! S H A R E! lol

 

You can click on the DVD Drive icon, and then the EJECT option from within My Computer.

 

nope ... got an optibay from MCE a long time ago.

VMware and Parallels are both set up to allow you to run your bootcamped install of Windows in a virtual machine... super easy to do.

The program to control the fans in Windows is purely command line, so I just wrote batch files I could double click to change the fan speeds.

The program is called MacFan
Mac/SMC Fan Control for Windows

There is also this one I saw with a GUI, but I never tried it...
Lubbo's MacBook Pro Fan Control

 

God bless you, sir.

am now super excited.

 

Let me make sure this is clear:

APPLE WILL NOT VOID YOUR WARRANTY IF YOU REPLACE YOU HDD

I have this on paper after talking with several chat people. They just will not cover the HD if it goes bad...

 

The OP said to show him that PC laptop that could be as good as the Apple 17" Macbook Pro. He can get the Sony Vaio F series. It has a Core i7 quad core 820M, Blu-Ray burner, 16.4" 1920x1080 premium screen with 1GB video ram, 8GB DDR3 system ram and 256GB SSD. Same price as the 17" MBP. Sony is the Apple of the PC world. Since the OP is going to run Windows this would be a better notebook for him, it even has multi-touch gestures, not as elegant as the MBP, but it offers it. Check it out.

 

and that up to 1 hour of battery during DVD playback is awesome too!

 

Yea, thanks for the idea... I've actually looked at the Sony F a lot, both online and in person. I just can't get over the fact that the screen size seems a lot smaller than both the 17'' mbp screen and the 17.3'' pc screens. Especially when you look at them side to side. Not to mention the terrible battery life the F has even though it has a relatively weak gpu. I don't want the sony F...
I really want to buy the 17'' mbp right now today as I am tired of limping along on my old computers, and I think it ought to work fine for me running fusion most of the time. But, now that I have seen the video of the envy 17'' I think it actually might be a viable alternative to the mbp for me. I would only be sacrificing a little in resolution and a little in weight. I just have to handle waiting till May 19th(supposedly) to order it.

 

God those things are as expensive as hell... get the lowest size possible! Then buy a $50 portable HD for your non essential data.

 

definitely disappointing to see how slowly the prices are dropping in the SSD world.

 

If it helps, OWC is the drive specific to Macs and can be found here:

OWC Mercury Extreme Pro SSD Serial ATA 2.5" Solid State Drives using High Performance Sandforce Processor solution

I just recieved one yesterday and will be checking it out...It has incredible specs to say the least which just may accomodate for price.

 

Hey, so can anyone tell me, if I buy a mbp with the 128gb ssd they offer, how much actual free space is available on the drive out of the box?