Considering my first Mac: MBP 13 Retina. Will I be able to work with DB, statistics programs, and use Win8 seamlessly?

Hi folks, I need to make an important decision and all advice would be appreciated.

Main reason is that I found an offer for MacBook Pro 13 Retina (8 GB version) with a 25% discount.

Consider that for the past 5 years I have survived with an Asus netbook eeePC 1000H with WinXP, for which I had paid ca £300. I have done a fair amount of web design and programming, heavy office and Excel use, some multimedia (graphic editing, music composition and some video editing) and the usual web power using it - which truly makes me believe that more [expensive] is not always vital.

I am now looking for something new, to do my usual stuff plus also to take some of my office work home and traveling - especially statistics, analysis programs, database studios, etc. (e.g. SAS, SPSS, R, SQL Server Studio, etc).
I looked at good business laptops like the Lenovo X series, but somehow they felt too expensive for what I really wanted. It's tempting to go for the highest specifications, but I wonder if I'll really need them.

So I found this offer, which puts the machine within my budget (albeit the upper end), but what I'm interested in is also learning about MacOS for the first time in my life. I know it's growing and might be useful also for my career to be able to use it.

However, I think some of my programs won't run on MacOS so it's important that Windows works reliably. I heard the battery life suffers, but by exactly how much?
Also, I think that when I travel I will mostly use non-heavy programs (web browsing, emails, etc) whereas statistic stuff etc I will surely do around where there's a power plug.

And out of curiosity... how long will it take to learn the ins and outs of the MacOS?

 

The Lenovo ThinkPad X series are still built tougher than any Mac.

I avoid Mac laptops since they are overpriced and don't offer what I need/want.

I currently own a Lenovo ThinkPad W530 , a Lenovo ThinkPad X230t , and a Fujitsu Lifebook T5010.

In the USA , the ThinkPad warranty is great.

 

Windows will run fine on it.

Battery life with Windows will be ok...not as good as OSX, but still good. The main battery life on MBPs are ones with dedicated GPUs which are forced always on in Windows. the 13" rMBP doesn't have this issue.

How long to learn OS X? that depends on you. Some people catch on quickly, some people never do. It depends how entrenched you are in Windows and think "the Windows way" is normal for computers... and try to treat OS X like Windows. If you have experience with other OSes, specifically something like Linux or BSD, it could help some.

 

Anyone has specific experience running statistics and database programs?

I guess that would be pretty similar to running professional programming environments.

What do you think?

 

I run MATLAB all the time along with a few other programs, both in Windows and OS X. The one thing I suggest is actually setting up a virtual machine instead of installing Windows through bootcamp. The hardware in the 13" MBPr, especially with that amount of RAM, will be able to run a Windows (I suggest Windows 7 since I despise Windows 8/8.1 but that would work too) virtual machine from within OS X along with your programs. On my mid-2011 13" MBA (with 4GB of RAM), I would run a Windows 7 VM along with MATLAB, Excel 2010, and some other software I can't think of at this moment. That was all within the Windows VM. I then had MATLAB, Excel 2011, and a simple, free HTML script analyzer open on the OS X end. My system ran fine. Granted, it wasn't getting the 7 hours of battery life it should have been (due to the CPU being taxed) but it was still running things without issues.

The 13" MBPr, so long as it's the 2013 model with Haswell hardware, will be fine for running all of the programs you want. It will run them with ease and performance will definitely be way above and beyond your current netbook. The build quality will be solid albeit not as sturdy as some business notebook, and I really enjoy using OS X over Windows. I don't like the move that Microsoft is doing with Windows 8/8.1. It's fine for tablets but I think it translates horribly to traditional computers (i.e. mouse and keyboard navigation). I tried getting used to the hot corners, swiping on a circle on a trackpad, jumping on one leg, and standing on my head but I don't like navigating like that.

 

Don't forget that the 13" MBPr can't be upgraded so if the OP wanted 16 GB of RAM and a 1 TB SSD down the road, he/she isn't going to be able to change those things. Most business class notebooks are made to make some parts easy to change (e.g. Hp Zbook 14).

My W530 can have 32 GB of RAM if I wanted which is more than any Mac laptop could have as of right now (beginning of 2014).

I still run MATLAB on a 2008 Fujitsu Lifebook T5010 so pretty much all laptops being made now should be able to do basic stuff in MATLAB while doing other things like browsing the internet and opening PDFs.

 

In November 2013 i earned money to buy ultrabook.I planed trip for December 2013 and i was so happy that i will visit main Croatian city because there are all mayor laptops store.
I was especially happy that i will visit Lenovo Exlusive store,HP Brand Store and Apple iStore.Meanwhile i bought Samsung NP900X3C-A01 because i could not wait and store was near my house.Its great laptop but screen is to small for me.
SO i start to think how i had hurry with purchase and that i should wait ,visit of Lenovo store.
We came to Zagreb and i even didn't unpack so i can visit store as soon as possible.When i entered store and start to grab model by model in my hand all i can say is:
does Lenovo has quality control and do they think we stupid.Man that 900x3c looks like space ship opposed to all Thinkpads.Whats even more interested some Ideapads look more quality then Thinkpads.I don't remember which laptop has batten but that batten was so fault and curve.
I start to laugh and in one hand i wasn't even surprised after that review with Lisa from Mobiletech Review where they could not even send one normal unit to review:
Lenovo ThinkPad T431s Review - YouTube
After that i went for iStore and when i saw MacBook Pro ALL I CAN SAY IS:Apple laptops or notebook ,how ever you want ,are cheap.When you compere built quality ,touchpad ,keys ,screen etc...like i said Apple computers are cheap.
So for somebody that dont care is it 8GB or 16GB (90% of people)and for somebody who keeps all important data on desktop pc and 256GB is enogh for him(90% of people) Apple is only solution.(if you cant without Windows then go with Samsung).
I saw a lot of people are complaining on Lenovo but they still use and tolerate their crap .Believe me people when i told you there are laptops that dont get broken.
O and OneLifeOneLove ,get that Apple beffore they sell it i know i will.
Here is only list that I admit:
Notebookcheck's Top 10 Subnotebooks - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

 

Apple laptops are practically impossible to repair on your own now. Also the warranty service that Apple laptops have is inferior to what the ThinkPads , Precisions , etc. lines offer. With Dell , Lenovo , etc. I can call customer service and have a technician at my home , work, etc. by the next business to fix my laptop if I have issues (under warranty).

ThinkPads pass some MIL-SPEC tests while Ideapads , Macs , Samsung laptops , etc. don't.

ThinkPads still have some of the best keyboards on the market. The old ThinkPads have had the best keyboards period.

Many ThinkPads have great cooling systems. I can personally comment on the X230t and W530 (I can even control the fan speed to some extent if I wanted to as well).

Of course there are some bad ThinkPads (e.g. Edge series) but those are intended for people who can't afford the normal ones.

Try comparing a Lenovo ThinkPad W series to everything else on the market and tell me what's built tougher and better.
There are only a handful of laptops that can even compete with a W series ThinkPad.

I don't buy IdeaPads since they are consumer class machines. IdeaPads look nicer than ThinkPads but they aren't built as well and aren't meant to last as long.


People who do CAD work know that Apple laptops are quite bad for that. There are other things that Apple fails at as well. Professionals who photo / video editing greatly benefit from the optimized hardware and software that's only present in the mobile workstation segment.

Show me an Apple laptop with a FirePro M6100 or the equivalent. Show me a modern Apple laptop with user changeable batteries. Show me any Mac laptop at any price with a 10 bit IPS panel display. Show me any Apple laptop at any price that has 32 GB of RAM. Show me any Apple laptop that has a fingerprint reader. I can go on and on. Apple laptops are NOT made for professional use...

Apple laptops will never match something like a Panasonic Toughbook in terms of build quality but Apple laptops will always be prettier.

A Mac laptop could fulfill your short term needs but over the long term you may replace it sooner than you expect. I tend to keep my laptops for a long time so I don't like the idea of disposable laptops (e.g. MacBook Pro Retina).

Almost everything on the market right now is a big upgrade from your Asus netbook eeePC 1000H so either way you are going to be surprised at how fast your next laptop will be.

 

The SSD of a MBPr model can actually be upgraded beyond the stock SSD. OWC offers aftermarket upgrades, they come at a cost but it can be done. The RAM can't be upgraded but, if someone orders a unit with 8-16GB of RAM, that's likely all they will need. Even with statistical software, which is heavily reliant on the CPU, most programs don't use beyond 256-512MB of RAM. So yes, the ability to upgrade after the fact is always nice but it doesn't mean anything if the person buying the system doesn't require it. That's like me complaining about my MBP having only 16GB of RAM when, at most, I've only used 12GB of RAM total. That was in an extreme scenario where I was running three Windows VM's (Windows XP with 1GB of RAM, Windows 7 with 4GB of RAM, and Windows 8.1 with 4GB of RAM) along with a few programs in OS X. It happened once and I doubt it will ever happen again.

I'm not going to complain about something I will never use and, given the requirements of the OP (and what they have been getting by with), a system with 8GB of RAM will far exceed their requirements for the software they will run even if they end up using a VM instead of using bootcamp for Windows. Even if you include the OP's requirements for the next four years, the current 13" MBPr with 8GB of RAM (and the minimal Core i5 CPU) will be more than enough to last them that long.

 

I didn't realize that OWC sold the brand new PCIE based SSDs. Can you put a link here?

I see one here but it's the old type and not the new PCIE type as shown here.

The late 2013 models are different.

BTW even on my desktop with 16 GB of RAM I do run out of RAM sometimes.

 

Which is completely irrelevant to what the OP's stated plans/goals are.

 

In another thread the OP mentioned video editing. If the OP keeps wanting to do more things with his/her machine than of course more RAM would be important.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/wha...y-use-excel-database-statistics-programs.html

as linked, OP actually started a thread asking for suggestions, and call me insane but i consider "heavy" excel data input impossible without a number pad, and running native windows software on VM/boot camp is not cost effective, but don't get me wrong, i am by no means trying to say macs aren't good, it runs everything fine but it doesn't do anything "exceptionally well", its build quality is better than consumer but far from business, its keyboard is excellent but not efficient without a numberpad, its hardware is well balanced for its form factor but not enthusiastic, its screen has exceptional colour accuracy but falls short compared to 10 bit display, it opens professional applications for casual usage but for intensive usage it will fall behind due to the lack of ISV certified graphics card

like i said, it is suitable to do everything reasonably well, but does not do anything exceptionally well, and when compared to business class machines at similar price range its only advantage is the operating system and colour accuracy on selected comparison models

this thread can go on all day arguing, i can see good points arising on both sides, but one can spend all day persuading a business class machine and another can persuade an apple laptop, from my point of view it is numberpad and business class machine made specifically for OP's usage: windows software, durability and data entry efficient keyboard (numberpad)

now i'll shut up and grab my pop corn

 

I see that they aren't offering one yet for the later 2013 MBPr models. They do for the 2012 and early 2013 systems. It's only a matter of time before they do. They were the first to offer SSD upgrades for MacBook Airs and MBPr systems.

As for what the OP mentioned, I'm not going to dig that other thread up. If they want their system to complete more tasks than what they listed, they should have added them to this thread instead of starting another one. People in this thread are going to make suggestions based on what they see here. They aren't going to search the forums and see what else the OP is posting.

Number pads do help a lot with data input but an external keyboard can always be used. I'm not sure how the OP is planning on using their system but I use mine all the time without an external keyboard. I take it to work as-is and then come home, plug it into a 23" external monitor (I use it in clamshell mode), plug it into a USB 3.0 hub, and then rely on an external mouse and keyboard for use. I'm essentially using my notebook, at home, as a desktop. I then rely on my iPad for general surfing at home from my couch, browsing the internet from bed, etc. So the OP could do something like this where the MBPr's keyboard will be more than enough for portable use and then come home to an external keyboard.

I'm also not sure how you can say it doesn't do anything exceptionally well. If a Mac has the exact same hardware as a PC, how can one not do anything exceptionally well while the other does? I know it can come down to the software but Excel 2011 runs just as fast and efficient as Excel 2013 in (the craptastic) Windows 8.1 on a system with similar configuration. Let's also not forget that the recent improvements in OS X Mavericks push battery life to the extreme. I still haven't come across a Windows system as light and thin as mine, with a quad-core Intel processor, dedicated GPU, and 15" display that can get anything over 3-4 hours of real world usage. However, I can easily push the 6 hour mark (I normally get around 6.5-7.5 hours now). That's exceptionally well performance that no Wintel machine has been able to match, not with real world battery numbers. Yes, there are Wintel machines with similar hardware as mine that can achieve those real world battery life numbers but they aren't as thin and light as my MBP. Windows 8.1, although improved over Windows 8, still can't fully handle high PPI displays. It doesn't scale nearly as well as OS X or even Chrome OS. It's been improved but it isn't as seamless or smooth as OS X. 3rd party desktop apps haven't been fixed and MS isn't pushing developers to come out with updates (unlike Apple but that's also due to the strange two universe dichotomy that MS has implemented with Windows 8), external display scaling with a high PPI display notebook produces blurry results on the external display, and even some of the Start screen apps still don't properly scale to high PPI displays.

I know this is a lot of work for MS to tackle especially since hardware manufacturers are relying on different display resolutions that all fall within the high PPI range. It's difficult for MS to properly handle all of these new high resolutions. However, since MS took the software stance by supporting all sorts of hardware (back with Windows 1), they should follow through.

 

1st thing 1st i'm sorry but i'll have to rule out anything that relates to connecting something externally, when we compare systems we compare the complete package the unit itself offers, not workarounds, if you want workaround missing parts by connecting stuff externally we'll be comparing the $2200 mac with a $500 PC that has nothing but a core i7, why? becuase by connecting an external monitor, external keybaord and, most importantly, an external graphics card, there'll be no difference between them, so i'm sorry but i don't think relying on external fix is fair for "system comparison"

you are right, however, you compare macs and PCs with equivalent hardware, but as i've said, we are comparing the complete package a unit offers and thus, sadly a complete package is price dependant, and yes, unfortunately for the price of the flagship macbook you will be put on the table against:

1) mobile workstation
2) gaming laptop
3) premium 'thin" laptop

and yes, this goes into as in why macs (15" flagship) don't run anything "exceptionally well" given the complete package it offers

compare to 1) it doesn't run professional apps "exceptionally well"
compare to 2) it doesn't run games "exceptionally well"

but don't get me wrong, of course the "complete package" is very balanced on the mac, but being well balanced also means they don't make small bits of sacrifice for providing "exceptional" experience in some areas of computing (CAD/gaming/editing) but does "fine" on everything

also, on the workstation side the m3800 w/91Wh battery do reach macbook battery life when the wifi is on, but of course not able to reach on idle due to the fact the macs idle on 2.8W doing nothing but handling office documents, its weird how the wifi consumes more power than CPU idle state (the m3800 is also thinner and lighter and if called to order can be had with 3 years accidental damage protection under what a flagship macbook would cost)

so now you sure you still want to compare a "complete package" a PC offers to a Mac? I doubt you will be able to present to me a part other than "an additional OS" that is only available on Mac that is exceptional compared to a PC, there is simply nothing a mac excels on, but there is also nothing a mac compromised greatly

by "exceptionally well", let me just define it in a more detailed way, it means that there is a certain software/program/game, or to say, a certain type of usage, that a computer is able to provide performance that, anything at its price cannot be matched, on professional editing you will be facing workstation with 10bit display, that runs on similar price as a mac, on gaming, well, you get it, these are called running something "exceptionally well" at a given price, but just like we all realised, the above "exceptional" machines do come in thicker as a compromise

but why bring up "exceptional" on the table? because everyone wants to do different things on a computer, but depending on importance, if running something is very important to a point where the consumer allows compromises on other fields that are less important, like if we consider a $1500 PC that does not game, then of course we don't have to consider the "exceptional" gaming laptop, but if we consider a $1500 PC that is solely for gaming(applies to CAD/editing too) we will be looking for machines that are exceptional in those fields, not balanced machine that provides a bit of this and that which are not needed nor necessary

I know i am being specific but again, "balance" of a machine is subjective, and shifts favour to machines in accordance to consumer preference, though of course the "average person" has a "balance" that favours a mac because it does a fine job on everything that is, as if there is an equal number of people who needs exceptional performance on each field, then the "average“ person will have an equal preference/no preference on performance requirement on each field that "shifts the balance"

P.S. MS did make a mess because there are too many hardware combinations to be supported on a single operating system, drivers that don't conflict each other on all combinations, and more importantly the mess created trying to support touch/mouse+keyboard, in other words, windows 7 runs exceptionally well on mouse+keyboard whilst windows 8 runs fine on mouse+keyboard/touch but not exceptionally well (yes i do consider it fine, metro UI is "fine" for the touch and the classic desktop is "fine" for the mouse and keyboard, having the start button will shift "balance" to running on keyboard+mouse "exceptionally well"

 

Why? To many people, they use their systems like that. Most notebooks are made to be hooked up to external accessories like monitors, keyboards, mice, etc. That's also where some of the shortcomings (or advances) of an OS are able to shine. Most people are going to hook their systems up to an external display (monitor, HDTV, projector, etc.) at least once over the lifetime of owning their notebook, that should be something to look out for.

Not necessarily. The MacBook Air line are priced competitively and offer the same internal hardware as other ultrabook manufacturers. The baseline 13" MBA (which is $1099 regularly but can easily be had for $1000) features the same hardware, albeit without a touchscreen but that doesn't affect performance, as other ultrabooks in the $600-$1200 price range. So, compared to those, the MBA would be able to accomplish the same tasks as other similarly priced notebooks (so you're looking at the "whole package") in the same manner. So the MBA would be considered "exceptionally well" in that case.

As for the 13" MBPr, I haven't come across a 13" system from manufacturers that offers a 2560X1600 display (or comparable) in the $1300 price range.

 

Yoga 2 Pro
13.3" QHD+ LED Glossy Multi-touch 3200x1800
$1,199.00
but can be even cheaper....

 

Ultra low voltage processor. The rMBP has full-voltage CPUs.

 

True, though it's $100 cheaper to make up for it.

 

While I'm normally the first to steer anyone away from a Mac who doesn't absolutely need it, in this case, I would take the rMBP over the Yoga 2 Pro. My bias against Lenovo's non-ThinkPad build quality plays a big part in this, though as I had a Y460 that was absolute garbage.

 

Eh, they're alright for a consumer-class laptop (I've played around with a Y470p for a few weeks). But for build quality and Lenovo, you'd have to step up to the famous black box.

Anyway, I'm just kind of lurking this thread. Figured I'd leave a comment to subscribe. But I agree with qweryuiop that a numpad would be great for more-than-average Excel (or numbers, in general) usage. Even I find myself complaining about my laptops not having a numpad, and I don't use numbers as much as OP (from the impression I get from this thread and his other thread).

 

Oh I'm in the same boat. I'm only an occasional Excel user, and the USB numpad I bought has helped tremendously. It's strange, though, because not all external numpads are actually compatible with OS X. I happened to find mine in a clearance bin at Office Depot for something like $3, and it's already lasted a lot longer than the one I previously used that cost 5x as much.