Convince A Windows User

Hey All
I have been a Windows user for most of my life, except for a short stint on Macs when I was very little. Now that I'm about to start my TEE(Tertiary Entrance Examination) my parents have agreed to put a bit of money towards buying a laptop, and I have my heart set on the Macbook Pro, but my parents, being Windows users, arn't so keen for me to get "this weird" thing (their words, not mine). I need your guys help to convince them (and me to some extent) that buying a Mac will be a good thing. Anything will do, from personal switching experiences, to why they are better. Anything that will convince them. Anything will be a great help.
Thanks,
Luke

P.S They are also worried about compatability with my school network, networking in general and compatability with Office so some stuff on that would be helpful.

 

I have been using a Macintosh laptop for about three years now... constantly.
There are no compatibility issues in terms of wording, exceling, networking or anything like that. Macintosh OS looks better, works faster, has far more options that are easily accessible and is virtually crash free (nothing ever freezes under OS X). The build quality of Macs is amazing. Although mine fell apart after a year, i blame that on a bad batch as well as poor handling (i drop it often). Its still in tact though.
Although MacBook is amazing all around, there are TWO substatial limitations that you should consider before buying it.
#1 IT IS MACINTOSH, NOT WINDOWS.
you like playing games? you like paying $80 for each one? cause thats the price you will be paying... quake 3 for mac in Toronto cost me $69.99 WITHOUT tax. There are also very few good games available for Macs... Also very few programs that you would usually run under windows dont even exist for macs... its a world in its own that excludes windows. BootCamp is garbage, dont even go there.
#2 IT OVERHEATS AND IT IS UNDERVOLTED
MacBooks (or macintosh lappies in general) can not be called LAP-TOPs. they cant be put on your lap. why? cause you wouldnt put a red-hot stove on your lap... Their systems overheat like crazy and the fan never stops working. It is quite easy to actually sustain a burn from macintosh laptops if handled improperly
The X1600 in the MacBook Pro is undervolted and underclocked. Regular clocks are 475/475... Pro has like 3/4 of that. And it still manages to overheat...
Think again man... its an expensive machine that smiply might not suit your needs... Sure you dont want an E1705??? lolz

 

Can you back up your statement in saying BootCamp is garbage? I've been running it for three weeks on the MacBook (check out the review on the site if you haven't already), and it runs all the applications I've installed perfectly. Adobe PhotoShop 7, Acrobat, Office 2003, Palm Desktop and more to name a few.

 

Yeah sure... here.
Must reboot to switch OSes AND you can only run one OS at a time. Intel Mac platform is not similar to any other PC, which will cause problems for some drivers and system software. Boot Camp Assistant only sets up internal (boot) drive. Airport Extreme driver has no management utilities. Boot Camp Assistant only supports Windows XP.

There are no good PC emulators. I dont see why you would use one. There really is no need. Just stick to what you have. Macintosh is good enough these days to avoid compatibility issues with windows in word, excel and all thsoe... There are programs that are made for PC that have exact counter-parts on Mac....

but then again... what do i know

 

You can get a PC notebook for a lot less. A Mac will certainly work.

 

No management utilities for AirPort Extreme driver? You can use the one within Windows. All the drivers load fine. Sound works, video works, wireless, and ethernet works. Have you even used BootCamp before? The whole point of using BootCamp and to install Windows on it is to make it run natively. It's a convenience for people who want to or have to use both operating systems. I have no problem with rebooting into another OS when I have to.

The only thing that doesn't work is the iSight camera in Windows. BootCamp is NOT an emulator, but you're right. No emulator is perfect. But seriously, if you are mainly going to use nothing but Windows, then get a Windows PC. Don't buy a Mac just for it's 'looks' and then run nothing but Windows XP on it. That would be pointless.

 

You know what...
you are right. ha ha. i have never used BootCamp before.
I base my knowledge of the program on what i know about both Windows and Mac systems as well as many numerous articles that are posted on the net and discuss BootCamp.
Thing is, i kinda have a part time job. The whole point of the job is to find information, summarize it, cut the bullcrap out of it and rewrite it. So thats what i did with the BootCamp thing. i have no first hand experience, just many many bits and pieces of knowlege that came from actual users and reviewers.
By the way, there are multiple driver complications. You may not have them simply because u have not entered that field of useage. But then again, very few individuals run BootCamp just to have photoshop and word... as i said before - u dont need bootcamp for that.
its mostly used for other purposes. a good example would be running a program that DOES NOT have a cross-platfrom counter part. All OF OFFICE files that you may create on Windows will work on mac...
BootCamp is prone to crashes as well...
I kinda live in a boarding school with 650 Macintosh laptops going back and forth all the time 365 days a year... i have seen people run BootCamp on their machines. they are not happy campers. ha ha.
And by the way, those of you looking to use BootCamp to play windows games... forget it. there is a 65% performance loss.

 

You're not very good at researching and summarizing.

 

Macs may look better than windows machines (maybe in black but white is just to feminine for me) but the problem with apple's is they lack raw power when it comes to performance especially in gaming and the new macbooks run hot as hell. On another note better looking and custom pc machines can be had (such as the ones we here at infinity create) and as for OSX yes its very nice looking and easy to use etc. and its very safe etc. but the only reason its better for security is because so few people use it that no one bothers to creat viruses etc. for it considering a huge majority use windows. Truthfully linux is the best, at least on desktops.

 

Do you actually own an Apple computer? Just out of curiousity.

You would be hard pressed to find a laptop with a better design than the MacBook Pro or MacBook. It may run hot if you press it but most things do.

 

They run onscenely hot because of around 10 times too much thermal compound, which is unacceptable from such an expensive product. They run painful to the touch after some web browsing on the lap for 30 minutes, my old Pentium 4-M notebook doesn't do that, and neither do very many other notebooks with the same specs.

Better design is a flexible phrase, it can mean better built, sexier, power:size ratio, lighter, etc. Lenovos/Panasonics are built better, looks are an opinion, power:size ratio for the MacBook is beaten by the Sony SZ and Dell XPS M1210, for the MacBook Pro, ASUS W3j and ASUS A8jm.

Apple isn't the end-all, be-all of design, they look nice, and they're well built, but they're not tough like a Lenovo or a Panasonic.

Just as a side-note, ASUS makes Apple's notebooks.

 

My top reasons:

Better OS, cleaner interface, better navigation, Expose, easy installation of application, better workflow with other applications, friendly GUI. The OS X also comes with lots of free goodies and widgets are awesome. Nothing like it.

Their product quality is superb. Everytime Apple comes out with something new, it's different, it's innovative and its a fresh idea and in a sense attractive.

Mac has crashed on me a couple of times but it did not require reboot, just close the app and relaunch it and it's back working again without the fuss or error messages. Otherwise, it's solid 99% of the time.

I like Airport Wireless over any other Wireless I've used on Windows.

 

Better OS of course is your opinion, the whole 'no virus' thing is very nice, but that (viruses) can be circumvented if you know what you're doing. You can get pretty much the same interface on a PC with a little bit of tweaking.

I'm sure it's quite good, my uncle gets the nicest things he can afford, and with him/wife's annual income being over 600k, he can afford a lot. He has a mac, and loves it.

However, this overheating issue because of a very simple problem that still continues to this day, and even continues in the MacBook after the MBP was released with it, is simply unacceptable to me.

Not really any comment on either of these. In my experience, no crashing and the wireless worked great. Of course, the same can be said for my experience with my PCs after I tweaked them to how I wanted them to be.

 

Psstt.. its called Parallels Workstation lol.. and Airport Extreme has no driver management because it just.. works

 

You really haven't the slightest clue of what you're talking about. I lost brain cells reading that. Thanks for nothing.

 

Be careful not to lose too many braincells, it dont seem like you have many left as it is. Im trying to help and provide some info that might actually be useful to some people out there. And you are being an idiot. You disagree with me? Then prove me wrong.
This isnt a place to post your opinion on other people. If you wish to do that, go on ICQ.

 

uh, vlad is special ed or something, wat does 1 second of google searching bring me?

 

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3149424
If you follow the link above, you will be able to find a couple of paragraphs about how HL2, FEAR, and Oblivion perform on a MacBook under BootCamp.
Please note that my 8204 has VERY similar specs to that of a MacBook Pro. The only major difference is the useless extra RAM and higher GPU voltage. I hope we all agree that very few games need more than 1 gig of RAM so that makes no difference. GPU undervolting is a bit different... but whatever.
On that site, it states that HL2 runs "far from perfect" and the guy had to reduce the screen resolution as well as video settings in order to get playable framerates.
I dont think that its the 2GB of RAM or, for that matter, slightly higher GPU voltage that allows me to run HL2 on highest settings with full AA and VSYNC at native resolution 10:9 aspect ratio...
The same applies to the other games discussed. I run them on very high settings (except FEAR ). The guy ran all of them on medium at best.

BootCamp is suitable for gaming. BUT... there is a performance loss and the program is yet to be polished of some problems.
My friend who lives down the hall owns a MacBook Pro. Apart from not being able to use it anywhere but on his desk (heat issues...), he couldnt even run BF2 on BootCamp... The BF2 picture appears, then the screen turns black for a couple moments and takes you right back to XP.

I completely understand your patriotism and love towards Macs and especially the highly praised BootCamp... you like it? it doesnt frustrate the living hell out of you like it does with me? OK... enjoy yourself.
Macs are not meant to be played on. They are meant for work.

http://www.everymac.com/articles/answers_archive/apr12_2006.html
I believe this is the site where you got your quote from. If you do not read selectively like you did, you will notice one VERY important point that was brought up: Gaming on BootCamp is really all about PROSPECTIVE. it can be either good or bad, depending on what you are looking for.

Im not looking for mediocre gaming. Thats not what i paid my hard-earned $2700 for.

Now i am going to get back to learning the alphabet (special ed) and crying in the corner cause my efforts are not appreciated.

 

Didn't you just say in an earlier post that you never had experience with BootCamp? So how does it frustrate you if you never used it? Plus you stated that all your knowledge is just bits and pieces that you've taken and summarized from other sources. Start telling the truth for once. It will make you feel better.

 

Just want to intervene before a flame war starts, keep the name/insult flinging out please. If you think someone's acting like a troll just ignore them or send them a PM or something, please try not to clutter up the forums with fights.

Just trying to keep the forums clean.

-Reize

 

As far as overheating goes, from what I have read and heard (I don't own a macbook, so I have no personal experience) the problem is with too much thermal compound. My guess is if you take it in to an apple store they can fix that for you in about 15 min. by taking it apart, cleaning it, and reapplying.

As far as boot camp being crap because you cannot run windows/osx simultaneously and must reboot to change... Huh? Bootcamp turns macs into dual-boot windows/osx machines. Dual boot as in, two options when you boot up, and considering the resource requirements of a modern OS I cannot believe you would actually WANT to run them simultaneously. For people who want to use OS-X, but MUST use windows for work/school/etc. the macbooks with bootcamp are a good choice. Bootcamp does have some rough edges, but those are supposed to be smoothed out with the leopard upgrade.

 

I would like to add an opinion as a new MBP owner. First, the overheating is actually more mass hysteria and hype over what is actually a non-issue. Before you piss your pants waiting to flame, indulge me for second. Take a logical look at it for a moment an realize 2 things. One, the case is made of aluminum. Aluminum will get hotter than thick plastic. Does that mean the computer is running hot? No, not necessarily. In fact, in a Mac the case helps to dissipate heat. Now, I know you are waiting to quote some CoreDuo Temp results. Before you do that. CoreDuo Temp DOES NOT measure the processor temp. It can not be trusted to be accurate. One look through all the CoreDuo Temp results shows a huge desparity between different computers and therefore makes its readings questionable at best.

Secondly, how many times have you hears stories of the running hot and ending up with kernal panics and shut downs due to heat? I have heard of none. I have yet to see anybody report that their MacBook Pro is not performing because of heat.

Now, to be fair, as some of you may have read I am on my third MBP. The first had an LCD screen go bad on the first night. The second was randomly shutting down. I orignally thought it was overheating, but after more testing an trail and error, it turned out to be completely random and not reproducable. I am on my third. This one has been great. I am loving it! Also, FWIW, Apple has been great throughout all of this. No fuss.

As far as Apple or PC? Have you decided? I did not read through the whole thread. If not I'll lend my opinion. If you are going into a business major(I'm assuming you are entering college) or you like to game ALOT go with Windows. It is much better suited. However, if you do not game a ton or the games you like are on Mac and business isn't your cup of tea, you cannot beat OS X. I am a very recent switcher and OS X beats Windows in every category except business and gaming. If you like editing music, making movies or slideshows, etc, you will love OS X.

Hope that helps you in your decision!

 

SOME, not all of the pros, did have too much thermal compound, the reg did an article a few weeks back. Just yesterday apple said that the heat problems with some macbooks are because a thin piece of plastic that was intended to keep dust out of the unit was not removed in a few units, again, see the reg. But overall I agree, people seem to be having conniptions over a fairly minor issue, were the G4's that much cooler?

 

From what i have read, Powerbooks seem to have been just as hot to the touch. I have no personal experience.

 

Last night I ran two shells of yes > /dev/null in Terminal (for 100% CPU load) and it didn't crash my computer nor get unbelievable hot. When the cooling starts to rev up it continues for a while and then speeds down and runs continously under 100% CPU usage. Still it was lower than any notebook I've heard running at 100% load (not to mention my desktop computer ).

Yes, it was hot on the bottom but I don't expect I will ever be sitting with it on my lap. I could carry it with my hand and I didn't get blisters from the experience.

Been using this MacBook Pro for the last 12 days and it have been great.

If you don't like it you can always return it for a refund and try something else