Do I need a Mac?

I'm going to college for Media Arts and Technology and the computers used are Mac based. The instructor said a personal computer wasn't "needed" however I plan on getting my 4 yr old laptop upgraded and I need one with a powerful cpu and gpu. In the interest of convenience, would it be better to upgrade to a Mac or would a PC be just as fine?

 

Some of it will depend on what software is used. Adobe CS6 is better experienced on Windows. However, if all the computers in your lab are Macs, you might want to use one as well, just for consistency.

This is, of course, provided you don't require something more powerful on the hardware front. Windows-based workstations (eg Dell Precision, HP Elitebook, Lenovo W530) all offer hardware and expandability that blow a MacBook right out of the water.

 

To add to what saturnnotaku said (which I fully agree with), if you have to use an OSX-only program (I don't see why), you can always install OSX in a virtual machine (Mountain Lion works well in VirtualBox in my case).

IMO, a workstation (mentioned above) would be a better choice for what you're doing due to the professional GPU (much better OpenCL and OpenGL support than the GeForce 6xxM found in the current MBPs and a lot of other laptops) and the better displays (for example, the W530's 1080p display is NTSC 95% color gamut, whereas any of the MBPs, including rMBP, will only have ~60-65%, so it'll look duller than the W530).

 

and as a photo and video editor I have to agree whole heartedly with the above two posts. the only reasons I can see not to go with a workstation unit is:

1: 80% of your course is in FinalCut ( which oddly enough works best in a hackintosh configuration with an older Quadro GPU ) and Aperture
2: you have numerous OSX only programs you will be using.

now as was said if you will be using Adobe CS6 or the upcoming CS6.5 it works best on windows 7 or 8 and on a system with a high end Radeon, FirePro or Quadro GPU as Adobe got off the CUDA bandwagon for rendering ( MRE in Premier 6 still is mainly CUDA, the uodate is OpenCL )

Autodesk software is more or less exactly the same story if you are using their animation and rendering applications

two come to mind that are actually beating my previous gen Mac Pro with a Quadro 4000 Card

feel free to post over in WNSIB or send me a personal message if you have more questions relating to specifics

 

Go and try out a Mac at an Apple store before you buy one. See if OS X is right for you, and see what kind of software you'll be using. You can always install Windows on your Mac if needed. I run both, but use Windows primarily for running games.

If you're going to be doing a lot of heavy lifting, maybe look into a desktop instead. I use my desktop for computational electromagnetics and it tears through datasets & simulations like a hot knife through butter thanks to NVIDIA & CUDA. Sadly, my software is CUDA-only and not OpenCL, so no go with my AMD GPU on my MacBook Pro. See what technologies your software takes advantage of before buying.

 

Desktop option will depend on if I'll have enough room in my dorm, plus a laptop for me is more convenient.

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I got a reply from one of the professors at my college:
Kristian,

Welcome to SMS!

I have not had a chance to update the incoming freshmen recommended materials document, but I've attached a PDF of last year's specs. Generally speaking, we tend to recommend the Apple laptops, as folks who wish to go cross platform are able to format them that way (whereas you are still currently unable to do that on a PC). Our labs are 99% Apple based as well.

What I've found is that once you spec a PC laptop up to match the Apple offerings, you end up paying a very equivalent price.

I would generically recommend one of the 15" Macbook Pros with as much RAM and HD space as you can get, as Chris mentioned. You can easily buy a second monitor for more screen real estate, but the 15" without second monitor still have a comfortable amount of screen real estate without being as bulky as the bigger 17" laptops.

I personally recommend the anti-glare/matte screen, as the glossy screens are just too reflective for my tastes. That, however, is up to you.

Ultimately, It also helps to know what you want to actually DO with the laptop. If you are leaning more toward the code/programming side of the major, you may want to explore a PC more. If you a more on the cross media publishing side (web/print/video/etc), then I'd strongly suggest the Apple side.

Finally, depending on how soon you need to get an upgrade, Apple often offers packages in the Fall for incoming students with extra perks. Something to think about.

Feel free to contact me if you have further questions.

Erich!

To add, the software used are Adobe Creative Suites from Design Premium to Master Collection. I will get Master Collection just because I run Photoshop and Premiere Pro on my current computer for editing pictures and videos.

 

Eh, I see a problem with his "equivalent price" argument, as you can typically buy a performance-equivalent Wintel for less than a MBP, and the few times I've seen equal price and equal performance was in business-class laptops, which offer a better build quality, tech support, and warranty than what a MBP can offer. It's a flawed argument and I don't see how he came to that conclusion (though he did say he hasn't updated the recommendation list in awhile).

As for programming, you can do that equally-well on an OSX machine, actually. A lot of programming languages (such as C and most of its derivatives) are very cross-platform and can be created on just about any computer. There are some languages that are closely tied to certain operating systems (for example, .NET and Windows, Objective-C and OSX), but those aren't as common. And media-oriented work is pretty cross-platform as well (Adobe CS6, though the code runs better on Windows, so I've heard; GIMP; etc.).

 

.net is not only very common, but is usually (90%) one of the pre requisites for a lot of job offerings in programming here in brazil. Like if you are maintaining a server great linux knowledge is usually mandatory, with all the accompanying software like samba

sincerely I have gone for a mbp 13 since i needed the battery life, and I wanted to learn something that would differentiate me from my colleagues, which was unix training and programming. which it did help. I do usually do SOME code bashing on a VM, and use tons of VMs (Im in CS), simply because I get a 1200p res with the mbp 13 on it, and that if I need more power, I will use a win/linux server that I have


aside that doh123 is a much better coder in OSX than most of us here, talk to him

 

Thats the thing I don't think I'll be on the side of coding (mainly fears of not being able to keep up) but more of the Designing side of things.

 

Well if you do get into coding parts of software development, you can do tons of stuff on OSX. Even if your wanting to learn C# and .NET, you can always go C#/Mono and its basically the same (enough) but cross platform... and sometime in the future you need to go MS .NET instead of Mono, it'll take a couple minutes to get updated. Don't be afraid of trying to "keep up" but its important to know the concepts and be familiar with some different languages.

You really shouldn't be limited at all with the Mac. People discussing things like "build quality" are just talking about their own subjective views.

 

then your choice is really up to you, you have the mbp or rmbp 15 on the mac side, and I like the windows offerings on the enterprise class workstation lvl, in terms of gaming performance both will give you the same, since the ones equipping the 15 workstation class gpus are indeed going to perform similar to the 650m. Now if you want to go all more power there is the np9150, you can fit a gpu that is 2x-3x better than the ones in the workstation class, in that case I would go with the 7970m though it depends on the software, if you are only going to use CS, than the 7970m, if more, check if they have problems with the 7970m

 

Apologies for bringing this back but i just need to make sure: because the computer labs in my major is 99% Mac based, would it be BETTER to look at getting a Macbook for consistency?

 

Most likely. Check your private messages on this subject.

 

dkris202, it's sounds very much that a Mac is the right machine for you and you're professor has already proven to you that Macs are well used in your school, particularly the labs being 99% Mac based. Don't let some people here try and swing you in the Windows direction, you can tell by some of the posts they are very much Windows biased and they will try and sway you away from Macs due to personal reasons. It happens a lot here on this forum. Macs are no longer ignored in terms of major developers making programs for them. Even when it comes to drafting programs AutoDesk (whom appeared to never make AutoCAD for OS X until hell freezes over) finally created AutoCAD and fully promote it. I've only heard minimal information in regards to Adobe's Creative Suite running better under Windows. Adobe has made no mention of this, in fact check out their website, many of the video demos of their products are done on the Mac. The company certainly wouldn't go out of their way to code their Creative Suite to run worse on Mac and OS X certainly isn't a less efficient OS than Windows...If you do decide to use Adobe's suite you might want to check out Creative Cloud. As mentioned earlier if you do for some odd reason need to run a Windows program you can install a virtual machine on your Mac such as VMWare Fusion and install Windows in it or you can simply install Windows under the built-in Bootcamp software in OS X.

 

Yes. Why be different going the PC route especially there are some Mac-only programs? At least if you're buying a Mac to be used in a Windows-based environment you can install Windows natively to use the software. You certainly won't lose buying a Mac. In this instance of buying a PC to be used in a Mac dominated environment it may not be your best choice. There's absolutely no way you can go wrong buying a Mac to be used in any environment.

 

What about in terms of Gaming? While I do play console games I've found games that I'd want to play but just did not have the specs to play it. I will be using my computer for multiple purposes and for personal use besides school.

 

The GPU on the latest Macbooks are very good, however there three things you should consider;

1) If you're a hardcore gamer and the games you play are heavily GPU dependent (such as some games from the Steam platform are generally coded for Windows but ported to Mac) a Windows machine (high-end) may have better GPU options and therefore offer a better gaming experience. Gaming in general from games with very high system requirements run very well under OS X but you may experience higher frame rates under Windows using the same GPU unless the game is natively coded for OS X. Therefore you can buy a Mac and just install Windows to run those games perfectly.

2) You have to weight out the ratio of the amount of gaming you will be doing against the amount of schoolwork you'll be using the Mac for. Even if gaming comes out higher you still need to be certain that a Windows machine will work perfectly in the environment you'll be using it for in school.

3) Even if you're OS agnostic (while even if some people say they are, there's still one OS they would prefer to use) and you end up using Windows you have to consider that Windows 8 will be your OS if you buy a new PC. It's definitely not one of my favorites, but if you end up using Windows you should find a way to use Windows 7.

In conclusion, not saying you should go with the masses but 13 years ago a Mac wouldn't been talked about in terms of which computer to buy but today you'll find more people and places you interact with that use a Mac.

 

KCETech1 is a designer who uses such programs every day on OS X and Windows. What you've "heard" is irrelevant.

 

I also left out that the department gives computer spec recommendations for BOTH PC and Mac. Implying that need be, you could get away using a PC if you had to

 

Yes they are basically giving you this option because not everyone can afford a Mac and some can only afford the cheapest PC laptop out there. That being said, the cheaper PC options aren't going to give you a GPU worthy of any decent gaming abilities leading you to spend more money. Since you're even inquiring about this, that does give some insight that you can at least afford a Mac so I would say again, go for it. It's only a win-win for you.

 

No PC is going to have a screen as good as the Retina MacBooks for graphic work. Yes there are PC laptops with IPS screens but they all have some issue like "orangegate", or being dim, or being grainy/sparkly. OK there is one little ultrabook that might have a good screen and has dedicated graphics, the Asus UX32, but good luck finding it in a store to see the screen quality in person.

 

HP's DreamColor II, Dell's Precision IPS, and Sager's 95% color gamut screens would all like a word with you.

 

Vaio Z says hello.

 

Like I said, they have weird issues like being dim. The Dell and HP screens are dim. Sager's 95% gamut screen is still TN and therefore uses dithering.

 

The Z was discontinued. So was the HP Envy (though it wasn't that great an IPS screen anyway). Windows laptop manufacturers tend to do that--- produce something good and then discontinue it after a couple years. I've given up on them. I for one would rather just go to a store and buy a MacBook that I can see in person, then install Win 8 on it.

 

The rMBP has weird issues of changing gamut based on power source and lighting conditions. The high resolution/DPI doesn't play nice with Windows and any application that hasn't been optimized for it.

 

Ok so should I not get a MBP or just not the rMBP?

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There should be no problems with dimness/brightness.

rMBP 13: "We measured a maximum brightness of 351 cd/m² and a very good average brightness of 307.2 cd/m²."

rMBP 15: "During our thorough test of the display panel (type APPA00F), the Gossen Mavo-Monitor recorded a maximum brightness level of 292 cd/m². Since the brightness distribution is decent at 87%, the average brightness level of 273 cd/m² is pretty close to the maximum level."

EliteBook 8770w: "We measured a maximum brightness of 286 cd/m² (top right) - 333 cd/m² (center) at our nine measurement points. This results in an average of 312 cd/m². The brightness distribution is good: 86%."

Dell Precision M6700 (Standard HD): "We ascertained brightness rates from 251 cd/m² up to 330 cd/m² at nine different measuring points, which is a very good prerequisite for many application fields. The average brightness of 284 cd/m² is not only sufficient for bright rooms, but also for outdoors when direct sunlight is avoided."

I got these quotes from NotebookCheck.net reviews.

The average brightness of the EliteBook is higher than both of the Retina MacBooks, and it surpasses both in color gamut as well.

The Dell was using the standard HD screen at the time, and not the IPS-RGB panel. If it were using its best possible screen, the results would be much better.

In terms of color, only the 13-inch rMBP covers the Adobe RGB, and the EliteBook far surpasses both in overall color availability.

All laptops have their quirks, the MacBook is no exception. The 15-incher has back-light bleeding, for example.

 

I will toss in my .02 experiences here...and as all is IMO...and for history sake I did use Apple II and IIe when they came out that should at least give others my history on computing experiences...

1. What are your needs and requirements that you need to fulfill first?
2. How much are you spending not just when you buy it but in terms of software and hardware upgrades?
3. Cross platform compatibility will what you created in one software be recognized in another software and platform?
4. Cost/Repair should it come down to fixing or upgrading should components fail? ie anything electrical does and will fail eventually from usage or age nothing is forever...
5. The learning curve...?

 

Ok allow me to clarify:
1: I need a laptop that can handle Adobe CS as well as record gameplay at high quality in hd @ 60fps. Secondary use would be gaming and good battery life as well as being not too heavy/bulky (don't want to feel constrained.)

2: this is a hard one, as my mom will be buying the computer/software and understands for my use it can get costly. I will be saving up for upgrades like SSD and ram.

3: Depends on Adobe CS. I know the Prof. recommended the mac for x-media production and pc for coding.

4: Warranty coverage I believe.

5: I'll give it a week to learn the quirks of Mac OS X (assuming it's something I don't already know).

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Unless you have specific software that runs only under OS X, you don't really need a Mac. Adobe CS will run just fine on a Windows-Intel machine. When you get down to the core, the only reason why you need to buy a Mac is that you need/want to run OS X. Sure, there are some added benefits here and there such as great battery life and solid hardware designs (that are continually imitated), maybe even great customer service if you live near an Apple Store. That being said, you can spend just as much money on a Windows-Intel notebook that would give you even better hardware that would be able to run Adobe CS without issues along with being able to record footage at 60 fps (unless you are talking about recording a game being played on the system at its native resolution at 60 fps, then you can keep that as a pipe dream unless you want a dedicated gaming notebook).

I have a Mac and will likely never switch back to Windows machines again. However, that doesn't mean that they are right for everyone and every situation. I purchased a Mac because I wanted to run OS X and I was tired of all the Windows machines that looked like Macs yet didn't have the same experience with the keyboards and trackpads.

 

negative the rMBP 13" is still roughly a sRGB screen ( 63.9% aRGB )and still has a crappy white point
AnandTech | 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro Review (Late 2012)

new Elitebook screens are 350 cd/m and the m6700 is as well ( PremierColor ) and a couple of other posters are correct, if you don't want to recalibrate your color every hour or two the retina screens are not so good. and the classic screens have a pretty poor gamut ( 60-70% sRGB or about 40% aRGB )

then you A: want windows 7 or 8 unless 90% of your time will be in Photoshop which is still fairly OS agnostic. and B: Do NOT want a Gforce GPU as Adobe CS has transitioned its products away from CUDA to OpenCL and all current Kepler Based GPU's with the exception of k series quadro's are horrid at it, not as bad as an intel IGP but pretty slow

always a good idea unless you look at units which have little to no upgrade path ( Airs and Retinas on their RAM especially )

CS is good for cross platform on data files unless you use a lot of the new enhanced filters and such available only in the windows versions of Premier and Illistrator

warranty is actually better in business class and workstations. they come to your home or school or wherever you are in the next day and fix or replace it onsite. ( for up to 5 years and do accidental damage too )

for consumer warranty Apple isn't bad but can still take time for parts and to get an apt at the Apple Stores.
5: I'll give it a week to learn the quirks of Mac OS X (assuming it's something I don't already know).

 

So I should get a Windows laptop?

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there are arguments for both, but if you plan on doing alot professional grade work in Adobe CS, AVID or many Autodesk Products ( the OSX versions when available tend to be sub par ports or heavily neutered ) I recommend a true workstation unit for many reasons including those said above. and hence Apple makes no workstation units and Adobe has shifted their focus and products more to windows .... I say yes.

I was literally forced to transition to windows due to my workflow and productivity, and end product quality on the workstation laptops being even superior to my Mac Pro desktop units.